[snip] whoever designed Frostvault

redlink1979 · June 2019

If you're going vet with a pug, you need to ask if everyone knows the mechs before you start.
Laser room is where most people struggles but it all gets easier if you know the mechs: place boss in the middle, kill adds asap (1st spiders 2nd spheres cause spiders power up the spheres), and lasers always will run clockwise or anti-clockwise. At least one player on voice chat to call the order to run makes this easier. And of course, stay away from AoEs.
Normal mode it's so easy, you just burn everything from start to end.

Miraslova · June 2019

FierceSam wrote: »

I would love ESO+ subscribers to have the option of doing/not doing DLC dungeons as their random daily. It does no one any good to stuff a player into a dungeon they aren’t ready for and don’t want to do. Not every ESO+ subscriber is ready/capable/willing to do them and it seems moronic that the only way they can avoid getting a DLC dungeon as a daily is to unsubscribe.

I'm not ESO+ and it happens too, so there's no difference if you're subbed or not. The only way is not to buy that certain DLC or for them to change the random daily database to not include DLC dungeons.

FierceSam · June 2019

Pednick wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

I would love ESO+ subscribers to have the option of doing/not doing DLC dungeons as their random daily. It does no one any good to stuff a player into a dungeon they aren’t ready for and don’t want to do. Not every ESO+ subscriber is ready/capable/willing to do them and it seems moronic that the only way they can avoid getting a DLC dungeon as a daily is to unsubscribe.

I'm not ESO+ and it happens too, so there's no difference if you're subbed or not. The only way is not to buy that certain DLC or for them to change the random daily database to not include DLC dungeons.

Except that actually buying the DLC at least suggests you might be interested in doing it. Subbing for ESO+ lumps you into the DLC dungeon pool irrespective of any desire to ever do DLC dungeon content. That said, if the way to avoid having unqualified/inexperienced players dumped into DLC content is to have an option for everyone NOT to do this content, then I’m happy with that.

Arunei · June 2019

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

I've done vet Frostvault in under 20 mins with dungeon finder PUGs. With that said, i believe they need to raise the CP requirement for vet DLC dungeons to at least 500cp. While CP is not an indicative of skill, it is an indicative of experience, and knowing mechanics is key for pve.

Actually no, CP is indicative of nothing but how much time you've been playing. You get experience for all sorts of things in this game, and a person can get CP levels just from doing overworld questing, public delves, killing mobs, doing writs and master writs, etc. A person with 500 CP might not have ever set foot into a dungeon before. This is especially true when you consider the fact that the first several hundred CP are gained fairly quickly because they take less experience to obtain than later ones do.

So let's not lock any particular content behind any arbitrary CP number. A person can have 200 CP but be awesome in dungeons because that's what they spend most of their time doing, actually learning mechanics and the like, and a person can have 500 CP but have no idea what they're doing because they've never gone into a dungeon except maybe the easy base game ones like FG or CoH that don't have mechanics like Frostvault's.

That being said, I haven't tried Frostvault on vet, but I've run it a slew of times when I was farming Tzovgin's stuff. Really the only boss that's tripped me up is the Vault Protector, but once I learned how to tell what direction the beams were coming from (and thus what side of the Protector to hide on) it became a lot easier. As someone else mentioned you can even dodge roll under the beams as long as you time it right, at least on normal. The bugs with the boss can make it more difficult; what annoys me is when he stands up after an initial pass of beams, then two seconds later he goes right back down as more beams come. I haven't had too many issues pugging this dungeon, but I can definitely see how that boss, even without all its weird bugs, can be a real headache for people.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2019

. As someone else mentioned you can even dodge roll under the beams as long as you time it right, at least on normal.

This is a one hit on vet.

Ravena · June 2019

I do like that one fight with the resident evil-like lasers. Was fun figuring it out on a pug.

Darkenarlol · June 2019

blind run on release day,

completed in ~50 min with cofee breaks

looks like l2p issue bruh

Katahdin · June 2019

My only complaint about frost vault is the ccs and stuns. There are too many. Especially the first boss, that one has ccs for the ccs on top of stuns and more stuns. It's dumb.

Cage_Lizardman · June 2019

I'm going to need a lot more practice on that laser fight before I'm any good at it. I don't really have a problem with that.

But it's annoying how often I get teamed up with 10k dd's looking for Tzogvin's in this dungeon. No, I can't carry your light attack spamming butt through this crap, I am not that good. I swear the people recommending this set are just doing it to troll people.

Arunei · June 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. As someone else mentioned you can even dodge roll under the beams as long as you time it right, at least on normal.

This is a one hit on vet.

Aaaaah, I haven't done vet so I wasn't sure if this was something that worked there or not.

skiidzman · June 2019

abigfishy wrote: »

As if two hours of facing instant death mechanics often 6 different ones on a single boss was not bad enough there are so many effects that it made my game crash. When I reloaded I was being removed from the dungeon as everyone else had given up. If this was a HM VET trial it would make some sense, but trying to do this with a PUG as your daily random is NOT FUN.

[Edit for bashing.]

Working as intended.

Dragonnord · June 2019

Frostvault is great! Sorry, but you and the guys you went with need to get better.

darkblue5 · June 2019

I love vFV and specifically Vault Protector. Has an extremely flavorful name while being the second coming of our Goddess of Flame and Wipes the Planar Inhibitor.

Hint: Lazers only activate clockwise or counterclockwise. Tanks, healers, and mag dps can slot Crushing Shot and keep the spheres from empowering or shooting their AOEs. Rezzing is very difficult so just don't die.

LeagueTroll · June 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Try vet, people grind motifs now, you have higher chance to get decent group in vet.

Lol no, I often need to kick 5+ every time cuz you just get ppl do 20k dps and claim it’s enough.

Edziu · June 2019

so what about me?
Im able to complete this dung but I also have rage on this and I see how some bosses are really *** up... *cough*vault protector*cough* and this should workt his way...as there is even almost no chance to fight boss as mechanics are jsut *** and going nonstop
you have to low dps? you have to many adds and evne cant survive them
you have great dps and even to great? and what? once boss will end mechanic he will enter into this instantly again or jsut after few seconds and just starting to build you rotation for max dps lol
you dont have even time to make full your rotation of dps, you jsut start your rotation and this is going again into this *** mechanic

with not to mention there is still problem as boss shield will give you 100% protection from lasers....yesterday I want again into vet frostvault since few weaks and half of group was wiped by laser behind this damn shield and 2nd half of team got finished by add after this laser (2nd half was tank and heal, thats why they stayed alive after laser...)

Kadoin · June 2019

Wasn't this posted before and got locked? Hmmm...

Elwendryll · June 2019

Yes, with this dungeon you lose a bit of time explaining the mechanics because you can't just ignore them with dps.

There are occasionally a few bugs for the vault protector fight, that's true, but it shouldn't prevent you from completing the run eventually.

I have been farming Tzogvin jewelry recently, so I pugged for vet. Last time was with 3 'first time' players. And actually, what caused the most wipes was the avalanche fight.

You just need to explain the mechanics to people, and carry them a bit. (If you're not a DD that's not possible, but well...)

bmnoble · June 2019

Only thing I hate about Frostvault is that Troll boss, had a few times when my interrupts didn't register causing a group member to die.

Other than that, would be nice if the dungeon explained the mice section a bit better, have had to explain to many groups what they are suppose to do.

aetherial_heavenn · June 2019

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

I've done vet Frostvault in under 20 mins with dungeon finder PUGs. With that said, i believe they need to raise the CP requirement for vet DLC dungeons to at least 500cp. While CP is not an indicative of skill, it is an indicative of experience, and knowing mechanics is key for pve.

Experience helps but I think the game devs could think about providing more information when players pick up the quest after entering the dungeon the first time on normal. Before each boss fight, the crucial mechanics should flash across the screen. (Like the alerts do from Codes). The boss would be immune to taunts and aggro for a very few secs while this happens. This would stop the speed runners pulling the boss, anyway and allow new players to at least know the key attacks to watch for. A few secs per boss isn't going to prevent quick completion and may improve the chances of getting the fight done first time. It could even be an option that is on by default and the group has to agree to turn it off. Then those who enjoy working it out could agree to turn it off but the rest of the playerbase could get the same info they would get from a good group leader. Or from the forums.

eg " In this fight Blue lazer beams come from the walls. Move clockwise/anti clockwise to avoid the beams. Use the boss to shield you from the beam attack". or "Kill the whatsits in the corner as a priority"" or " Kill the one of the ghosts to make a gap in the ghost wall and run through it quickly" or "Kill the 4 flag banner adds first" ...Or whatever.

I know some crucial mechanics are buried in dialogue but 80% of dungeon runners do not read the quest content...and the 20% that do are left behind by speed runners. (All stats made up, of course).

To the OP: If on PC, the add-on Codes combat alerts has explained more about crucial fight mechanics in a few simple dodge! block! Immune! firebreath! poison pool! than years of playing with low graphics and high ping where half the animations were invisible.

Now I know exactly what to look for on vet I can even sometimes see the animation in time to react...even if my hitbox doesn't follow me in time and i die with my character outside the red because my hitbox still shows me standing in stupid on the server. But that's another issue reserved for SEA/ Oceanic players. We just have to learn to prognosticate. vMA is such fun using my psychic powers! not.

Schemering · June 2019

One of the best designed boss fights in the game imo. I wish there were more bosses like this. I pug it always btw, I never did it with guild. One time i just did it with 3, with another dd and a tank that knew how to position the spheres next to the boss. No healer needed here, only a skilled tank

And on many occasions ive told the tank how to do that manipulating the position of the spheres and when to explode the balls near ads and that makes this boss very doable for most pug groups

FanmaR · June 2019

It's hard to balance fun/frustration when people are asking for harder DLC Dungeons. But I do agree with some of the points being made.

Edziu · June 2019

FanmaR wrote: »

It's hard to balance fun/frustration when people are asking for harder DLC Dungeons. But I do agree with some of the points being made.

harder, ok
but not harder in way of getting 1shots from adds from mechanic where on lower boss health there are spawning 4 adds at once which every of then can 1shot you at which you cant look nonstop becasue at same time you have mechanic to do which will also 1shot you if you ignore it....this is just nonsense and mechanic pushing you to not use healear in dung becasue for when he need healer if you get 1shotted anywhere and anytime?

Elwendryll · June 2019

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

I've done vet Frostvault in under 20 mins with dungeon finder PUGs. With that said, i believe they need to raise the CP requirement for vet DLC dungeons to at least 500cp. While CP is not an indicative of skill, it is an indicative of experience, and knowing mechanics is key for pve.

Experience helps but I think the game devs could think about providing more information when players pick up the quest after entering the dungeon the first time on normal. Before each boss fight, the crucial mechanics should flash across the screen. (Like the alerts do from Codes). The boss would be immune to taunts and aggro for a very few secs while this happens. This would stop the speed runners pulling the boss, anyway and allow new players to at least know the key attacks to watch for. A few secs per boss isn't going to prevent quick completion and may improve the chances of getting the fight done first time. It could even be an option that is on by default and the group has to agree to turn it off. Then those who enjoy working it out could agree to turn it off but the rest of the playerbase could get the same info they would get from a good group leader. Or from the forums.

eg " In this fight Blue lazer beams come from the walls. Move clockwise/anti clockwise to avoid the beams. Use the boss to shield you from the beam attack". or "Kill the whatsits in the corner as a priority"" or " Kill the one of the ghosts to make a gap in the ghost wall and run through it quickly" or "Kill the 4 flag banner adds first" ...Or whatever.

I know some crucial mechanics are buried in dialogue but 80% of dungeon runners do not read the quest content...and the 20% that do are left behind by speed runners. (All stats made up, of course).

To the OP: If on PC, the add-on Codes combat alerts has explained more about crucial fight mechanics in a few simple dodge! block! Immune! firebreath! poison pool! than years of playing with low graphics and high ping where half the animations were invisible.

Now I know exactly what to look for on vet I can even sometimes see the animation in time to react...even if my hitbox doesn't follow me in time and i die with my character outside the red because my hitbox still shows me standing in stupid on the server. But that's another issue reserved for SEA/ Oceanic players. We just have to learn to prognosticate. vMA is such fun using my psychic powers! not.

Most of the times the boss mechanics are introduced during the pack of mobs preceeding them, you should just be aware of the mechanics, what they do and how to deal with them. Not the full tactic... Like in Frostvault with the lasers just before the boss, they slowly introduce you to the mechanics, you have to figure out a strategy to beat the boss.

aetherial_heavenn · June 2019

Elwendryll wrote: »

Most of the times the boss mechanics are introduced during the pack of mobs preceeding them, you should just be aware of the mechanics, what they do and how to deal with them. Not the full tactic... Like in Frostvault with the lasers just before the boss, they slowly introduce you to the mechanics, you have to figure out a strategy to beat the boss.

Indeed they are. And one reason I like this dungeon is it is quite well designed in that respect. But people still go into that fight with no idea what is going on. Having pugged recent content on normal a lot I was suggesting something even more blatant. No voice on PC means people often have to type to explain the problem even on add fights and often there isn't enough time for players who are new to the content to process the add mechanics before someone has pulled the boss. Also, they aren't going to learn anything if they don't see the add mechanics because the deeps can bypass those mechanics on normal. (Or just bypass the adds in some dungeons). So making it take a few secs so the game an explain in words what is going on in the boss fights for first time groups/players could help reduce the gulf between smashing normal if you get carried by high dps and then going into vet with no clue.

Itzmichi · June 2019

abigfishy wrote: »

As if two hours of facing instant death mechanics often 6 different ones on a single boss was not bad enough there are so many effects that it made my game crash. When I reloaded I was being removed from the dungeon as everyone else had given up. If this was a HM VET trial it would make some sense, but trying to do this with a PUG as your daily random is NOT FUN.

[Edit for bashing.]

You are literally running in circles, buddy.
Clock or anti clockwise *ba dum tisss*

Grandma · June 2019

The only point i'll concede is that I don't think every fight should have a bunch of one shot mechanics, because healing feels useless. I love the design though and i enjoy hard content. The base game dungeons are already easy enough, why can't we get hard content?

Cage_Lizardman · June 2019

Ok I guess I can carry a 12k dd through Frostvault, as long as the healer does about the same and they're decent at the mechanics:
https://www.esologs.com/reports/RL8pBJxkZt6MYQTh#fight=1&type=damage-done

Enjoy your Tzogvin pieces.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2019

Cage_Lizardman wrote: »

Ok I guess I can carry a 12k dd through Frostvault, as long as the healer does about the same and they're decent at the mechanics:
https://www.esologs.com/reports/RL8pBJxkZt6MYQTh#fight=1&type=damage-done

Enjoy your Tzogvin pieces.

you really spent an hour in that place? dungeons ought never be more then a 20-30 minutes. hell, you can complete and i have, vDSA in that time, that is crazy.

Cage_Lizardman · June 2019

Not as if it's not making me question what I'm doing with my life or anything, no. Usually I would have given up on a run like that.

FierceSam · June 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Cage_Lizardman wrote: »

Ok I guess I can carry a 12k dd through Frostvault, as long as the healer does about the same and they're decent at the mechanics:
https://www.esologs.com/reports/RL8pBJxkZt6MYQTh#fight=1&type=damage-done

Enjoy your Tzogvin pieces.

you really spent an hour in that place? dungeons ought never be more then a 20-30 minutes. hell, you can complete and i have, vDSA in that time, that is crazy.

Well I am going to call balls on that one. Some of the most satisfying dungeons I have done have taken ages as my team and I try to work out how to defeat each boss. I’ve enjoyed the challenge of both the dungeons and working as a team to achieve no death runs, which have taken hours, sometimes over many days.

Obviously that’s not what I’m looking for with a PUG, but then I’ve never felt as proud or as satisfied with a PUG as I have when we finally get another no death run.

Re boss info, Xynode has developed a nice app that is a companion for his All About Mechanics series, which lets you see text about each boss as you prepare to fight them.

I would love some way in which players could choose whether DLC dungeons were included in the random normal as this appears to be one particular point of contention.