Suggestion: FFXIV Job System

Valrien · June 2019

So here's an idea. Add FFXIV's job system to ESO.

The basic idea of it is this: You can be any class you want at any given time. You cannot change class in dungeons, PvP, etc (basically you just decide what you want to play before going in). All classes have to be leveled from level 1.

So take my character for example. I'm a level 50 Sorcerer. I switch my "Soul Crystal (FFXIV, can be whatever ZOS wants)" to Dragon Knight...I haven't leveled Dragon Knight though. My Dragon Knight and associated skills are level 1. World skills and everything are still maxed since they aren't tied to job, but I can't use any DK skills without leveling.

So I level DK to 50. Switch back to my Sorc for a little bit and it's still level 50...but oh look, a new class comes out! Let's try Necro! Now Necro is level 1 and DK is level 50 as well as Sorc. Level that to 50 and now my class lineup is as so:
Dragon Knight - 50
Sorcerer - 50
Necromancer - 50

Nightblade - 1
Templar - 1
Warden - 1

Now you may ask, what does this solve? Alts are so easy to level in ESO that it seems pointless. Here's what it does:

It eliminates alts for people who don't care about RP. They can just use their one character level it to 50 6 times and be done with it, unless they wanna play a different Alliance. People who RP? They still get to play alts if they so desire, and they even get to keep their blank slate of skyshards and achievements.

This eliminates complaints for:
-Account wide Skyshards
-Account wide Achievements
-Lack of class changes in or out if the crown store
-Lack of freedom in character development
(now even with classes you can truly play whatever you want)
-Complaint of not having enough character slots

TL;DR Allow us to switch classes whenever we want at the drop of a hat outside of meaningful content. These classes will be whatever level you leave them on (never degrade, reset, etc. If I switch off a level 24 NB then NB is still 24). Will solve many complaints with the game.

KappaKid83 · June 2019

I have always been a fan of how Final Fantasy MMOs have handled this job role. Example, in FFXI you could be any job but also slot a sub job up to half your max level. So you would have a level 50 Paladin and be able to have white mage(healer) be your secondary job and it be capped at 25 for you level 50. So the incentive to level other jobs was definitely real. In FFXIV you don't have the sub jobs but like you said being able to switch between any job with a soul gem is so incredibly convenient.

I do not think the landscape of this game will ever do this, it would take a complete overhaul, but it is a novel idea.

Vesper_BR · June 2019

I would really love that... Great idea.

Valrien · June 2019

KappaKid83 wrote: »

I have always been a fan of how Final Fantasy MMOs have handled this job role. Example, in FFXI you could be any job but also slot a sub job up to half your max level. So you would have a level 50 Paladin and be able to have white mage(healer) be your secondary job and it be capped at 25 for you level 50. So the incentive to level other jobs was definitely real. In FFXIV you don't have the sub jobs but like you said being able to switch between any job with a soul gem is so incredibly convenient.

I do not think the landscape of this game will ever do this, it would take a complete overhaul, but it is a novel idea.

It wouldn't take an overhaul in the sense of redesigning the entire game.

Since classes interact with no other aspect of the game (other than Necros and Justice) the transition to the new system would be pretty painless in terms of that.

I could see issues with the respec and CP system but they could do it 1 of 2 ways:
1. Refund everything invested into class skills upon swap (or give the option, so a surpluss of skill points can just be left into the class and have the skills "disabled").
2. Leave all skill points where they are upon swap. If I have 20 points into Sorcerer I'm just down 20 points on DK. My Sorc passives would just be disabled.

For CP:
1. Leave as-is
2. Give us class-specific loadouts (6 different ways to spend CP)

Dark_Lord_Kuro · June 2019

I dislike the fact that im able to swich to any class in ff14 my character is a ninja why would he sudenly be a bard it make no sense at all

Valrien · June 2019

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

I dislike the fact that im able to swich to any class in ff14 my character is a ninja why would he sudenly be a bard it make no sense at all

Because your character learned how to be a bard?

Why would you suddenly forget everything about your old discipline when you learn a new one? Why would learning one discipline prevent you from learning any more?

Vesper_BR · June 2019

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

I dislike the fact that im able to swich to any class in ff14 my character is a ninja why would he sudenly be a bard it make no sense at all

Turning to an argonian mage after being a Breton brawler fighter is pretty normal these days in eso... And nobody cares...

andreasv · June 2019

Unfortunately that also eliminates the need for players to buy Crown Store items such as experience scrolls, riding lessons for speed, capacity or stamina, crafting scrolls, or skyshards. And with that in mind no-one at ZOS will even remotely consider such a change.

Siohwenoeht · June 2019

Jack of all trades, master of none. Admittedly, I've never played any ff outside of the first one on nes, but let's let ff be ff, and eso be ESO.

Devanear · June 2019

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

I dislike the fact that im able to swich to any class in ff14 my character is a ninja why would he sudenly be a bard it make no sense at all

Same here, I think character identity is completely lost if a character can be anything. Some combinations could make sense, although not all of them would work. The first that comes to mind would be a nature balance sort of character, with both life (warden) and death (necromancer) powers. I would err on the side of caution though, and say no.

Valrien · June 2019

Devanear wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

I dislike the fact that im able to swich to any class in ff14 my character is a ninja why would he sudenly be a bard it make no sense at all

Same here, I think character identity is completely lost if a character can be anything. Some combinations could make sense, although not all of them would work. The first that comes to mind would be a nature balance sort of character, with both life (warden) and death (necromancer) powers. I would err on the side of caution though, and say no.

Even more of character identity is lost when players want every class to be able to do everything.

In this new system if a class is good at something they can just play that class. For example instead of making Sorc good at healing, they could just play a Templar or a Warden

andreasv wrote: »

Unfortunately that also eliminates the need for players to buy Crown Store items such as experience scrolls, riding lessons for speed, capacity or stamina, crafting scrolls, or skyshards. And with that in mind no-one at ZOS will even remotely consider such a change.

This just highlights the greedy system that ESO runs on. The experience of the player is sacrificed for the profits of the company

blnchk · June 2019

Let's take this prominent system our competitor has and implement it here. We could even call it ESO's FFXIV Job System so as not to leave a shred of doubt about our blatant copying. It'll be fine!

—Not ZOS, probably

ManwithBeard9 · June 2019

If I wanted that system, why wouldn't I just go play FF14? Implementing that into ESO would also require rewriting the entire game code regarding classes. Considering they have no want to even attempt a class change token because there's no RoI for the dev time needed, they wouldn't even consider this. Not to mention how they would have to explain this from a lore perspective.

Girl_Number8 · June 2019

Different game not going to happen.

Simply it would not be in Zos's financial interests....Character Slots equal money.

Valrien · June 2019

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

If I wanted that system, why wouldn't I just go play FF14? Implementing that into ESO would also require rewriting the entire game code regarding classes. Considering they have no want to even attempt a class change token because there's no RoI for the dev time needed, they wouldn't even consider this. Not to mention how they would have to explain this from a lore perspective.

From a lore perspective:

"Hmm...learning Sorcerer spells seems pretty fun. Maybe I'll try that"

Same as any Elder Scrolls game.

Valrien · June 2019

blnchk wrote: »

Let's take this prominent system our competitor has and implement it here. We could even call it ESO's FFXIV Job System so as not to leave a shred of doubt about our blatant copying. It'll be fine!

—Not ZOS, probably

Games improve on the ideas of others all the time

sindalstar · June 2019

Give me FF14's class focus and direction, not the ability to change it.
There are so few classes that being able to switch between them is wholely unimportant (to me, anyway)

I know it's ESO's 'thing' to have all these varied skills but hot damn.
Do I miss having such a clear cut class design.

It bothers me to no end that while every class can do it, no class is really 'designed' to be archer or a pure melee class for example. They've melted together somehow.

I won't whinge on that tho. I know that's supposed to be ESO's selling point. But my problem is that 'play how you want' doesn't work when there are very clear best options.

Valrien · June 2019

sindalstar wrote: »

Give me FF14's class focus and direction, not the ability to change it.
There are so few classes that being able to switch between them is wholely unimportant (to me, anyway)

I know it's ESO's 'thing' to have all these varied skills but hot damn.
Do I miss having such a clear cut class design.

It bothers me to no end that while every class can do it, no class is really 'designed' to be archer or a pure melee class for example. They've melted together somehow.

I won't whinge on that tho. I know that's supposed to be ESO's selling point. But my problem is that 'play how you want' doesn't work when there are very clear best options.

It used to be that each class had a focus.

You could tank on any character for example, BUT if you wanted to do it well or seriously you'd play DK.

Now they're so focused on making every class do everything equally. Why even have classes at that point?

andreasv · June 2019

Valrien wrote: »

...

andreasv wrote: »

Unfortunately that also eliminates the need for players to buy Crown Store items such as experience scrolls, riding lessons for speed, capacity or stamina, crafting scrolls, or skyshards. And with that in mind no-one at ZOS will even remotely consider such a change.

This just highlights the greedy system that ESO runs on. The experience of the player is sacrificed for the profits of the company

Unfortunately that's how ESO is designed. Just look at crafting, a big part of ESO. And I love crafting in ESO, but just look at how many different types of material you need. Those easily fill your inventory. And even if you carefully manage your inventory, the daily log in reward will make sure you come to a point where you see no other option but to subscribe to make use of the crafting bag.

Anyway, I'd love to be able to play one character and try every class with it, but I'm not going through the terrible campaign again, and ZOS won't ever sacrifice all their little microtransactions in favour for that.

Valrien · June 2019

andreasv wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

...

andreasv wrote: »

Unfortunately that also eliminates the need for players to buy Crown Store items such as experience scrolls, riding lessons for speed, capacity or stamina, crafting scrolls, or skyshards. And with that in mind no-one at ZOS will even remotely consider such a change.

This just highlights the greedy system that ESO runs on. The experience of the player is sacrificed for the profits of the company

Unfortunately that's how ESO is designed. Just look at crafting, a big part of ESO. And I love crafting in ESO, but just look at how many different types of material you need. Those easily fill your inventory. And even if you carefully manage your inventory, the daily log in reward will make sure you come to a point where you see no other option but to subscribe to make use of the crafting bag.

Anyway, I'd love to be able to play one character and try every class with it, but I'm not going through the terrible campaign again, and ZOS won't ever sacrifice all their little microtransactions in favour for that.

It wasn't to be this way

Back at launch you paid monthly and got access to all of the content the game has to offer.

Honestly they could have found a happy medium like many games such as WoW and FFXIV have found where they kept the monthly sub and have a smaller cash shop. The Crown Store isn't inherently bad but the way they treat it is.

There's really no harm in having some mounts, costumes, character slots, race changes etc in the store. Those are all pretty standard stuff...but the majority of a large piece of content (housing), loot boxes, and just about every "cool" thing the game has to offer in the Crown Store? It's too much

At this point though it's too late to go back. Some players have spent hundreds and even thousands of dollars in the Crown Store...while it's well within ZOS's rights defined in the TOS, ZOS isn't just gonna take all of that away.

We just have to live with this sad, sad reality.

Inaya · June 2019

I have always wanted another job system like the one in FFXI. It was the absolute best!

gepe87 · June 2019

Too late for new design.
Just add a 4th skill line for each class.

KappaKid83 · June 2019

Valrien wrote: »

KappaKid83 wrote: »

I have always been a fan of how Final Fantasy MMOs have handled this job role. Example, in FFXI you could be any job but also slot a sub job up to half your max level. So you would have a level 50 Paladin and be able to have white mage(healer) be your secondary job and it be capped at 25 for you level 50. So the incentive to level other jobs was definitely real. In FFXIV you don't have the sub jobs but like you said being able to switch between any job with a soul gem is so incredibly convenient.

I do not think the landscape of this game will ever do this, it would take a complete overhaul, but it is a novel idea.

It wouldn't take an overhaul in the sense of redesigning the entire game.

Since classes interact with no other aspect of the game (other than Necros and Justice) the transition to the new system would be pretty painless in terms of that.

I could see issues with the respec and CP system but they could do it 1 of 2 ways:
1. Refund everything invested into class skills upon swap (or give the option, so a surpluss of skill points can just be left into the class and have the skills "disabled").
2. Leave all skill points where they are upon swap. If I have 20 points into Sorcerer I'm just down 20 points on DK. My Sorc passives would just be disabled.

For CP:
1. Leave as-is
2. Give us class-specific loadouts (6 different ways to spend CP)

I like the ideas at the core but I think it would be a tough task and most definitely some sort of redesign that would take a team maybe a year or more to implement.

I am on your side here though, I have played more FFXI and FFXIV than I care to admit, FFXI got me through college and the 24 hour sessions were real, but ESO feels and is different. I would love to see the FF system instilled in every MMO though because like you said it takes the account wide achievement arguments and throws them out the window and makes the grind of Sky Shards and Mage Books null and void which most people seem to not want to do over and over and over for each class and each spec of the class(Mag/Stam/Tank/Hybrid).

Elwendryll · June 2019

I don't want to switch between classes. I love my character. But there are so many ways I'd like to play him. Give me loadouts to switch between different builds (with different point attribution and Mundus). I'd be willing to pay double the price of a full character slot for that.

Valrien · June 2019

Elwendryll wrote: »

I don't want to switch between classes. I love my character. But there are so many ways I'd like to play him. Give me loadouts to switch between different builds (with different point attribution and Mundus). I'd be willing to pay double the price of a full character slot for that.

That last sentence is why we have what we do in the first place.

And if what you say is true then this would literally not hurt you in the slightest

Like Templar or whatever? Play Templar.

DedEmbryonicCell19 · June 2019

Would your character be level 1? Or just your class? Not sure how we would separate Magic from Stamina ..

Valrien · June 2019

DedEmbryonicCell19 wrote: »

Would your character be level 1? Or just your class? Not sure how we would separate Magic from Stamina ..

Character level and class would be one and the same. When you're a level 50 Sorcerer, you're level 50. When you're a level 1 DK, you're level 1.

Why would we separate mag and stam? If you mean the 64 attributes, you'd have to:
-Lock them to class
-Allow a respec every time you swap
-Keep attributes the same accross the board, forcing a manual respec
-Do away with attribute points entirely

DedEmbryonicCell19 · June 2019

Valrien wrote: »

DedEmbryonicCell19 wrote: »

Would your character be level 1? Or just your class? Not sure how we would separate Magic from Stamina ..

Character level and class would be one and the same. When you're a level 50 Sorcerer, you're level 50. When you're a level 1 DK, you're level 1.

Why would we separate mag and stam? If you mean the 64 attributes, you'd have to:
-Lock them to class
-Allow a respec every time you swap
-Keep attributes the same accross the board, forcing a manual respec
-Do away with attribute points entirely

So if our characters also start over at level 1 then shouldn't be an issue .. but if I want to have 3 stam characters and 3 mag characters then I can ..

Valrien · June 2019

DedEmbryonicCell19 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

DedEmbryonicCell19 wrote: »

Would your character be level 1? Or just your class? Not sure how we would separate Magic from Stamina ..

Character level and class would be one and the same. When you're a level 50 Sorcerer, you're level 50. When you're a level 1 DK, you're level 1.

Why would we separate mag and stam? If you mean the 64 attributes, you'd have to:
-Lock them to class
-Allow a respec every time you swap
-Keep attributes the same accross the board, forcing a manual respec
-Do away with attribute points entirely

So if our characters also start over at level 1 then shouldn't be an issue .. but if I want to have 3 stam characters and 3 mag characters then I can ..

Yeah. You can make alts if you want and everything, or play them all on the same character or whatever you want basically. When you switch classes you just have to level up the new class and you're good to go...but once that class is leveled up it's leveled for good. You could have all 6 classes at 50 if you wanted

The emphasis on this system is player freedom.

Darkenarlol · June 2019

just leave FF sistem to FF

Valrien · June 2019

Darkenarlol wrote: »

just leave FF sistem to FF

Any explanation why? This would benefit ESO greatly and has no adverse affects to any player