One Dominion Soldier even cooked and ate an Argonian Egg... Jesus, these people are devils...

The worst I remember is that the Pact collaborated with the Veiled Heritance in Auridon, but aside from that I can't recall much of any Pact agression.

As I mentioned in the general discussion sub-forum: I have done all 3 of the factions zones, and the Aldmeri Dominion and Daggerfall Covenant do comes across as a lot more nasty than the Pact does. Even to the point of strangeness. The Pact is made by 3 races who hates eachother, yet you rarely see much conflict – Most of the time they get along swimmingly!
In the DC and AD storylines they rarely (Can't even think of one) do anything horrific. Just "normal" war things. While the Dominion has that whole thing in Shadowfen along with other horrors, and the DC's military seems to be filled with psychopaths, rapists and other unpleasant people.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Spoilers, obviously.




No, the Pact actually does very little invading of the other alliances, which makes sense when its basically the Dunmer, Argonians, and Nords loking at the nascent Dominion and wannabe 2nd Empire and going "Yeah, we'd better stick together or theyre gonna conquer us."

IIRC, there's one quest in Auridon where you thwart a Pact landing party, amd I don't recall any Pact in the Covenant at all.

Honestly, the Pact's questline is the most focused on the Three Banners War, as the other two have more to do with the internal mechanics of holding their alliance together. There are some areas where the Pact is questionable, especially depending on your choices in quests where the Dunmer want to use necromancy.

Extra Spoilery

there is some indication that the Worm Cult has thoroughly infiltrated all three alliances, amd so one could speculate that the Dominion in Shadowfen and the Covenant necromancer on Bleakrock and Stonefalls could be their fault

For what it's worth, the Dominion's own faction storyline is fantastic and does give me an alternate theory about what happened in Shadowfen, but you havent done it yet, so I shan't spoil it.

Have fun questing!

This isnt entirely true and actually downplays what the Ebonheart Pact is doing to the other Alliances members. Most of it is actually found within the EP storyline and is really just brushed over (which seems to be a theme for the EP). The Dunmer are notorious for their slavery and at the point of the EP storyline Argonian Slavery has mostly been outlawed, though there is evidence that its not overly regulated. But the Dunmer have turned their attentions to the enemy Alliances and began kidnapping and enslaving the races of both beast and men.

In Stonefalls you will encounter a farm that has been overrun with Khajiiti demons after the slaves there revolted against their masters. All of the slaves at this location are Khajiit but there is no mention if they are former soldiers or simply civilians. Implying the Dunmer are raiding Elsweyr for slaves.

Move further inland into Shadowfen and if youre exploring every nook and cranny you might stumble on not just the slave camps but a young Breton woman trying to escape her Dunmer masters. Its up to you whether you turn her in or let her escape on the dingy waiting for her.

Now while the AD storyline doesnt ever touch on this, not even a off hand comment from a high ranking member of the Alliance, the Daggerfall storyline does. As you enter Stormhaven and enter the first village you come to. There is a woman distraught over her childs abduction by Dunmeri Slavers. Conveniently they never fly the EP standard but its not hard to imagine where these young Bretons intended destination is. Luckly a storm recently blew through and sunk the Slavers ship, giving you the opportunity to save the womans child.

So while the EP does not commit acts of necromancy or attempts genocide with some creepy egg eating. They are party to some rather vile slavery and all the inhumane treatment that entails.

Kambo wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

This isnt entirely true and actually downplays what the Ebonheart Pact is doing to the other Alliances members. Most of it is actually found within the EP storyline and is really just brushed over (which seems to be a theme for the EP). The Dunmer are notorious for their slavery and at the point of the EP storyline Argonian Slavery has mostly been outlawed, though there is evidence that its not overly regulated. But the Dunmer have turned their attentions to the enemy Alliances and began kidnapping and enslaving the races of both beast and men.

In Stonefalls you will encounter a farm that has been overrun with Khajiiti demons after the slaves there revolted against their masters. All of the slaves at this location are Khajiit but there is no mention if they are former soldiers or simply civilians. Implying the Dunmer are raiding Elsweyr for slaves.

Move further inland into Shadowfen and if youre exploring every nook and cranny you might stumble on not just the slave camps but a young Breton woman trying to escape her Dunmer masters. Its up to you whether you turn her in or let her escape on the dingy waiting for her.

Now while the AD storyline doesnt ever touch on this, not even a off hand comment from a high ranking member of the Alliance, the Daggerfall storyline does. As you enter Stormhaven and enter the first village you come to. There is a woman distraught over her childs abduction by Dunmeri Slavers. Conveniently they never fly the EP standard but its not hard to imagine where these young Bretons intended destination is. Luckly a storm recently blew through and sunk the Slavers ship, giving you the opportunity to save the womans child.

So while the EP does not commit acts of necromancy or attempts genocide with some creepy egg eating. They are party to some rather vile slavery and all the inhumane treatment that entails.

But that's just Dunmer and not the entire Pact. Even if they fly Pact flags.

A big part of Dunmer culture has always been slavery in some way shape or form, and out of respect for the Argonians helping them drive back the Akaviri they mostly outlawed the enslavement of Argonians, or just slavery in general. But, Dunmer still have their way of life, as well as historical and cultural ties, so some still try to enslave what they consider "lesser races" as it's considered a sign of power and superiority within their culture. Take the Telvanni for example. If you go to Vvardenfell, you can still find plenty of enslaved Argonians as the Telvanni are not members of the Pact, and the Telvanni more than any other group of Dunmer are adamant about the show of power and superiority. But that doesn't mean they're evil. Spoilers ahead.

There is an entire questline revolving around an Argonian slave in Sadrith Mora, who works her way up from being a slave to an actual Telvanni Wizard. It shows that the Telvanni, while they do still enslave people, are clearly open to allowing anyone, slave or otherwise, to show they have power and superiority as well. It's a part of Telvanni culture, and a part of Dunmer culture as a whole.

The Nords and Argonians are allies of the Dunmer, they are their equals within the Pact. If they didnt want to be party to such atrocities they have the ability to either put a stop to it (as evidence of the "No Argonian Slave" policy) or cut the Dunmer out of the Alliance altogether. By not taking a stance on the issue they are permitting it and shoulder the blame for it. Its actually quite lorebreaking that the Argonians at the very least dont take a harder stance on the issue of slavery since many of the current EP Argonian citizens are former slaves. You would think they would be much more sympathetic to others being forced to experience what they endured.

Theres also the fact that the EP armies are most definitely benefiting from slaves as supply trains for the army needs to come from somewhere and the cheapest supplies will come from the cheapest means of production. So again, they are far from separated from the act of slavery.

The Telvanni are not members of the EP. They refused to participate in the Alliance and were able to retain their Argonian slaves because of this. And what you fail to mention when bringing up your cherry picked story is there are plenty of Argonians running about in Vvardenfell that never gain their freedom. Plenty of characters you can interact with that dont take advantage of the Telvanni Caste system. Youre also leaving out the most notorious Slavers in all of Morrowind, the Dres. Some of the most brutal and merciless slavers to ever exist in TES Lore. The Dres are the primary source of slaves through out all of Morrowind and there is no "get out of slavery" loopholes with the Dres like there is with the Telvanni.

Kambo wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

The Nords and Argonians are allies of the Dunmer, they are their equals within the Pact. If they didnt want to be party to such atrocities they have the ability to either put a stop to it (as evidence of the "No Argonian Slave" policy) or cut the Dunmer out of the Alliance altogether. By not taking a stance on the issue they are permitting it and shoulder the blame for it. Its actually quite lorebreaking that the Argonians at the very least dont take a harder stance on the issue of slavery since many of the current EP Argonian citizens are former slaves. You would think they would be much more sympathetic to others being forced to experience what they endured.

Theres also the fact that the EP armies are most definitely benefiting from slaves as supply trains for the army needs to come from somewhere and the cheapest supplies will come from the cheapest means of production. So again, they are far from separated from the act of slavery.

The Telvanni are not members of the EP. They refused to participate in the Alliance and were able to retain their Argonian slaves because of this. And what you fail to mention when bringing up your cherry picked story is there are plenty of Argonians running about in Vvardenfell that never gain their freedom. Plenty of characters you can interact with that dont take advantage of the Telvanni Caste system. Youre also leaving out the most notorious Slavers in all of Morrowind, the Dres. Some of the most brutal and merciless slavers to ever exist in TES Lore. The Dres are the primary source of slaves through out all of Morrowind and there is no "get out of slavery" loopholes with the Dres like there is with the Telvanni.

The Ebonheart Pact, from what I've learned, is about treating all the races within its faction equally and respecting their cultures. So why wouldn't the Pact allow the Dunmer to continue enslaving those of other races? It was specifically decided by the Pact, since the Argonians played a major role in the war against the Akaviri, that the act of enslaving Argonians was to be outlawed, and all currently enslaved Argonians were to be freed, which they were because the Dunmer and Nords both appreciated and respected the help the Argonians provided. But just because enslaving Argonians was outlawed doesn't mean the Dunmer aren't allowed to continue enslaving those of other races within their own borders, namely Morrowind. Even Tiber Septim, Talos, allowed the Dunmer to continue the act of slavery within the borders of Morrowind despite all of Tamriel having slavery outlawed at that point. Simply put, it's a large part of Dunmeri culture, not to mention their economics, and the Pact respects the Dunmer's cultural right to continue the act of slavery.

Even if you view the Pact as being bad because they allow the Dunmer to continue enslaving other races, which I'm not saying is a morally good thing to do, you can't ignore that it isn't as bad as Eating an Argonian Egg, Attempting to kill an entire nest of Argonian Eggs, and openly allowing Necromancy to be used against your enemies.

Dominion Soldiers literally tried to murder an entire nest of Argonian Eggs. And Necromancy I would argue is even worse than slavery, as you're essentially enslaving someone's soul after they've died and are literally controlling everything they do. Quite frankly, in comparison, enslaving some Khajiit seems far better morally than enslaving the souls of the dead.

I really dont think there is anything worth debating here with you. I understand that the OP wanted to know whether the EP are "as bad" as the other factions. But my original comment was to point out that there are atrocities on the EP side. Even if ZOS did a terrible job of putting it on display.

If you want to argue on behalf of the EP with someone else, go right on ahead. But Im really not interested in a devils advocate situation where someone tries to argue that slavery is somehow not equal to the atrocities committed by the other alliances. They are all atrocities and Im willing to bet ZOS never meant for it to be a "ones worse than the others" and thats why each one is shown to be doing evil *** while their leaders are simultaneously so likeable.