Massive dps disparity

Solosus66 · May 2019

I'm really perplexed, I manage at a push to do 30k dps, but mostly average around 25 or so.

I've been working and working on my rotation on the dummy, tightening it up as much as possible and I just can't get anywhere near 60k dps alcast's build is supposed to deliver.

I'm aware of a couple shortcomings I have, I am only 610cp and also don't have the maelstrom staff for my Magblade. I'm running mother's sorrow with bsw. Staves are gold, everything else purple with the suggested traits. My CP distribution is according to alcast's magblade build.

I'm at just over 40k mag with close to 3k spell power, 64% crit rate and 79% crit damage.

If I compare my stats to some of those folks that have posted their 60k parses, I'm not too far behind, yet they manage to do incredible damage.

I've compared my parses to theirs and I see startling differences on a few things.

1: their light attack damage is more than twice mine per hit.

2. Their skill damage on funnel heath for example is almost twice mine per hit according to their parses. This one for the life of me I can't explain.

Is there such a vast difference between maelstrom staff light attacks that explains point 1?

Does my being short of 200 cp explain the massive differences in certain skill damage per hit ? I can't see it.

Could someone be so kind as to possibly explain the difference between my light attacks and funnel heath spam only doing half the damage on a dummy compared to their parses, this is per hit.

Thank you

cjhhickman39 · May 2019

Buffs and debuff?

Nestor · May 2019

Are you LA Weaving?

When Weaving are you do so that the LA does not even animate?

WhyMustItBe · May 2019

Alcast parses always have someone putting elemental drain/Major Breach/Fracture on the dummy to increase sustain/penetration. Dummies have just over 18k resistance (physical and magic) like most raid bosses, so if you are under that for penetration missing the major breach/fracture buff will make a significant difference.

Having more CP specifically in staff/weapon expert in the blue tree and Master at Arms will increase your light attack damage quite a bit, though not more than 20%.

Also many alcast builds use the Psijic ability that buffs your next light attack. I don't know how damage meters handle this, but it could just be showing up as flat light attack damage and if you aren't using that ability in your rotation as the spammable, it could account for the huge discrepancy.

I am assuming you are drinking potions to keep the major Crit/Spellpower buffs up?

Solosus66 · May 2019

Sorry, forgot to mention, running Zaan's, buffs are major sorcery, and the buff from inner light, and from bsw. For debuff I run elemental drain on the dummy. Hope that helps.

WrathOfInnos · May 2019

Yes, the light attack damage is primarily from the Maelstrom Staff effect.

For Funnel Health, you may be comparing to an old build. It’s damage was cut in half a few months back. Swallow Soul is now the DPS morph, Funnel is just for healers. You’d actually be better off using Elemental Weapon in most cases though.

The 200 CP isn’t a big deal, and will affect your DPS by less than 10%. If I had to guess more specifically I’d say it’s most likely close to 7% that you stand to gain by getting to Max CP.

Your Crit rate seems a little low. Are you using good potions (20% Spell Damage, 10% Spell Crit, and Restore Magicka)? You should have the following Crit bonuses:
- 10% base
- 9% from CP’s
- 10% Light Armor passive
- 10% Major Prophecy (inner light or potions)
- 16.4% Mother’s Sorrow
- 3.8% Burning Spellweave
- 3.8% Zaan or Slimecraw (or 7.6% of you mix 2 different crit monster sets)
- 2-4% from Assassination passives
- 7% Precise weapon (front bar only, infused Berserker is best on back bar)
Total 70-76%

This high crit synergizes well with the Shadow Stone (which I assume you’re using) and 7 divines is best.

Beyond that it most likely comes down to practice and rotation.

worrallj · May 2019

I'd guess all these things combined could do it. When I got maelstrom staff, fixed the traits on one item, and upgraded a couple items, I saw my dps go up like 7k. 200cp is not really small potatoes either. That's another 66 points in the blue damage tree, which can do a decent amount. Plus yeah the major fracture/breach, if your not using that, could do it.

Solosus66 · May 2019

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Alcast parses always have someone putting elemental drain/Major Breach/Fracture on the dummy to increase sustain/penetration. Dummies have just over 18k resistance (physical and magic) like most raid bosses, so if you are under that for penetration missing the major breach/fracture buff will make a significant difference.

Having more CP specifically in staff/weapon expert in the blue tree and Master at Arms will increase your light attack damage quite a bit, though not more than 20%.

Also many alcast builds use the Psijic ability that buffs your next light attack. I don't know how damage meters handle this, but it could just be showing up as flat light attack damage and if you aren't using that ability in your rotation as the spammable, it could account for the huge discrepancy.

I am assuming you are drinking potions to keep the major Crit/Spellpower buffs up?

My penetration is around 12k with elemental drain I believe. I'm not running potions as I already have those buffs up, maybe a little less crit.

I don't believe elemental weapon increases light attacks, it adds it's own damage on the parse.

Solosus66 · May 2019

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Yes, the light attack damage is primarily from the Maelstrom Staff effect.

For Funnel Health, you may be comparing to an old build. It’s damage was cut in half a few months back. Swallow Soul is now the DPS morph, Funnel is just for healers. You’d actually be better off using Elemental Weapon in most cases though.

The 200 CP isn’t a big deal, and will affect your DPS by less than 10%. If I had to guess more specifically I’d say it’s most likely close to 7% that you stand to gain by getting to Max CP.

Your Crit rate seems a little low. Are you using good potions (20% Spell Damage, 10% Spell Crit, and Restore Magicka)? You should have the following Crit bonuses:
- 10% base
- 9% from CP’s
- 10% Light Armor passive
- 10% Major Prophecy (inner light or potions)
- 16.4% Mother’s Sorrow
- 3.8% Burning Spellweave
- 3.8% Zaan or Slimecraw (or 7.6% of you mix 2 different crit monster sets)
- 2-4% from Assassination passives
- 7% Precise weapon (front bar only, infused Berserker is best on back bar)
Total 70-76%

This high crit synergizes well with the Shadow Stone (which I assume you’re using) and 7 divines is best.

Beyond that it most likely comes down to practice and rotation.

Thanks for that, I'm running 2 infused, so I'm missing the 7% staff one.

Glad to know that maelstrom makes up such a huge portion of the light attack damage. Gives me hope.

Yes I will check, the video and parse which shows funnel health maybe earlier before nerf. But if I compare my elemental weapon damage, it's also about half of what others post on their per hit parses.

Perhaps they running full 18k penetration on the dummy with maelstrom and some other buffs unless maelstrom also buffs elemental weapon damage, if it buffs the light attacks and elemental takes its damage from the light attacks and adds to it to firm it's own, that explains it!!! What a huge boost with maelstrom, am I right?

Solosus66 · May 2019

worrallj wrote: »

I'd guess all these things combined could do it. When I got maelstrom staff, fixed the traits on one item, and upgraded a couple items, I saw my dps go up like 7k. 200cp is not really small potatoes either. That's another 66 points in the blue damage tree, which can do a decent amount. Plus yeah the major fracture/breach, if your not using that, could do it.

Thank you, I seem to finally understand how they getting their damage, see my post before this.

Ectheliontnacil · May 2019

One suggestion is that you take out all your cp from the blue tree and then do a couple of 6mil parses.
Analyse your damage report (with combat metrics), figure out how much light attack, dot and direct damage you do and look at your average crit rating. Then plug those values into a cp optimizator.

Also specify how much penetration you have (on dummy parses this is lower than in trials). And enter how many offensive cps are available to you.

http://asayre.mygamesonline.org/MorrowindCPOptimisation/CPOptimisation.html

This is the link.

Solosus66 · May 2019

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

One suggestion is that you take out all your cp from the blue tree and then do a couple of 6mil parses.
Analyse your damage report (with combat metrics), figure out how much light attack, dot and direct damage you do and look at your average crit rating. Then plug those values into a cp optimizator.

Also specify how much penetration you have (on dummy parses this is lower than in trials). And enter how many offensive cps are available to you.

http://asayre.mygamesonline.org/MorrowindCPOptimisation/CPOptimisation.html

This is the link.

Thank you very much. That will also help. Been running constellations addon, find it quite good aswell.

SidraWillowsky · May 2019

I have nothing to add other than I struggle immensely with my magblade as well. I'm doing everything "right" according to what the "pros" do and have hit 34k once; usually sit right at 30k. All gear is gold except for one spell strat ring. I actually think you're doing pretty well based on what you're using- swapping to Siroria + Spell Strat from BSW + MS gave me a fairly substantial DPS boost (I think I was at 26k with your setup), though I don't find that setup to be very useful for almost any actual game content. I understand though- it still feels really low relative to what others are pulling. My stamblade's at 44k, which isn't a whole lot lower that a lot of parses that people do on normal dummies (ie, not raid buffed).

The only thing I can think of is that I've not put anywhere near the number of hours working on the magblade's rotation on a dummy as I have the stamblade. Every piece of that rotation has been meticulously practiced and polished; I have no done that on the magblade, though I've done a decent amount of parsing on her. Have you done extensive work on your rotation? If not, that's probably what you need to work on... the magblade rotation is particularly punishing when it comes to mistakes and all it seems to take is a slip up or two and re-applying a buff to soon to cause your DPS/sustain to tank.

Solosus66 wrote: »

I don't believe elemental weapon increases light attacks, it adds it's own damage on the parse.

It actually doesn't add any damage on its own- need to get a light attack in within 2 seconds of activating the skill or else nothing happens.

SidraWillowsky · May 2019

Solosus66 wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Alcast parses always have someone putting elemental drain/Major Breach/Fracture on the dummy to increase sustain/penetration. Dummies have just over 18k resistance (physical and magic) like most raid bosses, so if you are under that for penetration missing the major breach/fracture buff will make a significant difference.

Having more CP specifically in staff/weapon expert in the blue tree and Master at Arms will increase your light attack damage quite a bit, though not more than 20%.

Also many alcast builds use the Psijic ability that buffs your next light attack. I don't know how damage meters handle this, but it could just be showing up as flat light attack damage and if you aren't using that ability in your rotation as the spammable, it could account for the huge discrepancy.

I am assuming you are drinking potions to keep the major Crit/Spellpower buffs up?

My penetration is around 12k with elemental drain I believe. I'm not running potions as I already have those buffs up, maybe a little less crit.

I don't believe elemental weapon increases light attacks, it adds it's own damage on the parse.

Spell Power Potions. Up 100% of the time when you parse. No exceptions. Level up your Medicinal Use in the alchemy tree too.

Oh, and if you don't have it, get the Grim Focus Counter addon. Single most important addon for nightblades who run Grim Focus.

Solosus66 · May 2019

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Solosus66 wrote: »

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Alcast parses always have someone putting elemental drain/Major Breach/Fracture on the dummy to increase sustain/penetration. Dummies have just over 18k resistance (physical and magic) like most raid bosses, so if you are under that for penetration missing the major breach/fracture buff will make a significant difference.

Having more CP specifically in staff/weapon expert in the blue tree and Master at Arms will increase your light attack damage quite a bit, though not more than 20%.

Also many alcast builds use the Psijic ability that buffs your next light attack. I don't know how damage meters handle this, but it could just be showing up as flat light attack damage and if you aren't using that ability in your rotation as the spammable, it could account for the huge discrepancy.

I am assuming you are drinking potions to keep the major Crit/Spellpower buffs up?

My penetration is around 12k with elemental drain I believe. I'm not running potions as I already have those buffs up, maybe a little less crit.

I don't believe elemental weapon increases light attacks, it adds it's own damage on the parse.

Spell Power Potions. Up 100% of the time when you parse. No exceptions. Level up your Medicinal Use in the alchemy tree too.

Oh, and if you don't have it, get the Grim Focus Counter addon. Single most important addon for nightblades who run Grim Focus.

Thanks for the help

SidraWillowsky · May 2019

Solosus66 wrote: »

Thanks for the help

It will help a lot, I promise! What you want to do is drink a potion then wait for it to have about 25 seconds left, then start your parse.

MartiniDaniels · May 2019

Op, I agree with you. I can't get it why my self-buffed blockade with 98% uptime is doing 4000-4500, while Lico's blockade in literally same gear does 5900.

spacebandit · May 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Op, I agree with you. I can't get it why my self-buffed blockade with 98% uptime is doing 4000-4500, while Lico's blockade in literally same gear does 5900.

Could it be 5900 average? Cause average takes Crit and regular both into account. With the current shadow Mundus meta you might get better dps running Siroria/mother’s sorrow to get more crits.

Solosus66 · May 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Op, I agree with you. I can't get it why my self-buffed blockade with 98% uptime is doing 4000-4500, while Lico's blockade in literally same gear does 5900.

Interesting, especially with same gear and cp, I take it his parse lists his crit, and crit damage and spell power and all his buffs? Could it be penetration? De buffs on the dummy?

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · May 2019

Solosus66 wrote: »

I'm really perplexed, I manage at a push to do 30k dps, but mostly average around 25 or so.

I've been working and working on my rotation on the dummy, tightening it up as much as possible and I just can't get anywhere near 60k dps alcast's build is supposed to deliver.

I'm aware of a couple shortcomings I have, I am only 610cp and also don't have the maelstrom staff for my Magblade. I'm running mother's sorrow with bsw. Staves are gold, everything else purple with the suggested traits. My CP distribution is according to alcast's magblade build.

I'm at just over 40k mag with close to 3k spell power, 64% crit rate and 79% crit damage.

If I compare my stats to some of those folks that have posted their 60k parses, I'm not too far behind, yet they manage to do incredible damage.

I've compared my parses to theirs and I see startling differences on a few things.

1: their light attack damage is more than twice mine per hit.

2. Their skill damage on funnel heath for example is almost twice mine per hit according to their parses. This one for the life of me I can't explain.

Is there such a vast difference between maelstrom staff light attacks that explains point 1?

Does my being short of 200 cp explain the massive differences in certain skill damage per hit ? I can't see it.

Could someone be so kind as to possibly explain the difference between my light attacks and funnel heath spam only doing half the damage on a dummy compared to their parses, this is per hit.

Thank you

A bit more detail of your class and gear would be welcomed to give you an idea what could be off also with IRL content.

MartiniDaniels · May 2019

Solosus66 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Op, I agree with you. I can't get it why my self-buffed blockade with 98% uptime is doing 4000-4500, while Lico's blockade in literally same gear does 5900.

Interesting, especially with same gear and cp, I take it his parse lists his crit, and crit damage and spell power and all his buffs? Could it be penetration? De buffs on the dummy?

Well, I looked into his video, it's probably fire enchants which cause much longer periods of burning and so all fire damage receive a considerable buff. Btw, I was wrong about same gear, he used siroria+spellstrat and I used siroria+mothersorrows atm, so from screenshot my stats are even way better (much higher crit chance and crit damage)
And even with hilariously lucky crit on my impale, my impale crit was for 54k and his for 77k. How???

SirAndy · May 2019

cjhhickman39 wrote: »

Buffs and debuff?

This ^^^
My guess is they are buffed by other players (normal for raid groups) and you are trying to do the same being completely solo.

If that's the case, you'll never get their numbers since they aren't doing a solo parse, they have help ...

And0ssus · May 2019

How should i start.

1. They using better/other gear (Maelstrom Weapons, Siroria, Spell Strategist), using other Traits then you (bloodthirsty on jewelry, precise on frontbar/infused backbar) and use other glyphs on the weapons (flame front/weapon dmg back)
2. 200 cp less
3. Using another "Spammer" (elemental Weapon deals more Dmg then Funnel Health)
4. They are more experienced (Rotation, Weaving, etc)
5. They get Buffs for the Dummy (Combat Prayer, Bubbles, Minor Vulnerability)

Race and Mundus could be another Point.

WrathOfInnos · May 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Solosus66 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Op, I agree with you. I can't get it why my self-buffed blockade with 98% uptime is doing 4000-4500, while Lico's blockade in literally same gear does 5900.

Interesting, especially with same gear and cp, I take it his parse lists his crit, and crit damage and spell power and all his buffs? Could it be penetration? De buffs on the dummy?

Well, I looked into his video, it's probably fire enchants which cause much longer periods of burning and so all fire damage receive a considerable buff. Btw, I was wrong about same gear, he used siroria+spellstrat and I used siroria+mothersorrows atm, so from screenshot my stats are even way better (much higher crit chance and crit damage)
And even with hilariously lucky crit on my impale, my impale crit was for 54k and his for 77k. How???

The difference in max Impale sounds like Bloodthirsty for an extra 30% damage. His parse also had Minor Berserk (removed with Elsweyr) for another 8% damage on all skills.

Also keep in mind that Spell Strat does not show up in CMX or character sheet Spell Damage. It is hidden, and about 600 more after Major Sorcery. I think Siroria + Sorrow is better now, so I wouldn’t rush off to buy Spell Strat, but that also helps explain the higher max hits (higher peaks, but fewer of them than Sorrow).

WrathOfInnos · May 2019

Also you Crit Damage still seems a little low. Try to get 10% from Channeled Acceleration or Rearming Trap, 16% from 40 points Elfborn CP (when you get to 810 make this 20-22% with 56-66 points), 19% from Shadow Mundus, and 10% from the Assassination passive with at least one ability in each bar. With the 50% base crit dmg, that should total 205% solo. At max CP and with Warhorns this typically hits about 215%, 225% for Khajiit (not that I would necessarily recommend Khajiit, just a fun fact).

MartiniDaniels · May 2019

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Solosus66 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Op, I agree with you. I can't get it why my self-buffed blockade with 98% uptime is doing 4000-4500, while Lico's blockade in literally same gear does 5900.

Interesting, especially with same gear and cp, I take it his parse lists his crit, and crit damage and spell power and all his buffs? Could it be penetration? De buffs on the dummy?

Well, I looked into his video, it's probably fire enchants which cause much longer periods of burning and so all fire damage receive a considerable buff. Btw, I was wrong about same gear, he used siroria+spellstrat and I used siroria+mothersorrows atm, so from screenshot my stats are even way better (much higher crit chance and crit damage)
And even with hilariously lucky crit on my impale, my impale crit was for 54k and his for 77k. How???

The difference in max Impale sounds like Bloodthirsty for an extra 30% damage. His parse also had Minor Berserk (removed with Elsweyr) for another 8% damage on all skills.

Also keep in mind that Spell Strat does not show up in CMX or character sheet Spell Damage. It is hidden, and about 600 more after Major Sorcery. I think Siroria + Sorrow is better now, so I wouldn’t rush off to buy Spell Strat, but that also helps explain the higher max hits (higher peaks, but fewer of them than Sorrow).

Yep, I forgot that spell strat is not shown in CMX. About bloodthirsty I have 2 gold rings with it and one arcane.. on the other side twisting path and grasp are literally the same, blockade higher due to burning.. so only question left is about hilarious difference in impale damage.

mongoLC · May 2019

That's the problem with the damn combat team. They balance everything around what alcast and liko can pull and *** all for everyone else. Just find a new game like a lot of us who played mageblades are doing.

Runefang · May 2019

mongoLC wrote: »

That's the problem with the damn combat team. They balance everything around what alcast and liko can pull and *** all for everyone else. Just find a new game like a lot of us who played mageblades are doing.

Balancing has to be done at the top end because the Liko’s of the world are going to push any class to its limits. So if they make it easy for you they make it even easier for Liko. Then we end up with a mono class meta.

Even with that said Magblades are arguably the worst mag class now so I don’t think ZOS balanced anything.

MartiniDaniels · May 2019

Runefang wrote: »

mongoLC wrote: »

That's the problem with the damn combat team. They balance everything around what alcast and liko can pull and *** all for everyone else. Just find a new game like a lot of us who played mageblades are doing.

Balancing has to be done at the top end because the Liko’s of the world are going to push any class to its limits. So if they make it easy for you they make it even easier for Liko. Then we end up with a mono class meta.

Even with that said Magblades are arguably the worst mag class now so I don’t think ZOS balanced anything.

Dummy doesn't emulate that sorcs take it faster to 25% and then magblade impact skyrockets. Also nobody uses lotus fan, but in practice it is another aoe dot of power comparable to twisting path and also very useful to group, since under heavy mechanics healer can't apply vulnerability on everything. Also it instantly places you together with zaan and siroria on boss ass, so you are not wasting time taking position or wasting siroria with occasional LA.
I really like new magblade gameplay, we are more dynamic now and more useful to group. But of course I play at progression level, so I don't know what they are doing in Hodor etc... but I bet that 97% of ESO population is far from Hodor/Valor membership so what's point to use parses on virtual dummy by one of the best players as a reference.. though what I'm talking.. magblade needs minor berserk back of course!

Solosus66 · May 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Solosus66 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Op, I agree with you. I can't get it why my self-buffed blockade with 98% uptime is doing 4000-4500, while Lico's blockade in literally same gear does 5900.

Interesting, especially with same gear and cp, I take it his parse lists his crit, and crit damage and spell power and all his buffs? Could it be penetration? De buffs on the dummy?

Well, I looked into his video, it's probably fire enchants which cause much longer periods of burning and so all fire damage receive a considerable buff. Btw, I was wrong about same gear, he used siroria+spellstrat and I used siroria+mothersorrows atm, so from screenshot my stats are even way better (much higher crit chance and crit damage)
And even with hilariously lucky crit on my impale, my impale crit was for 54k and his for 77k. How???

The difference in max Impale sounds like Bloodthirsty for an extra 30% damage. His parse also had Minor Berserk (removed with Elsweyr) for another 8% damage on all skills.

Also keep in mind that Spell Strat does not show up in CMX or character sheet Spell Damage. It is hidden, and about 600 more after Major Sorcery. I think Siroria + Sorrow is better now, so I wouldn’t rush off to buy Spell Strat, but that also helps explain the higher max hits (higher peaks, but fewer of them than Sorrow).

Yep, I forgot that spell strat is not shown in CMX. About bloodthirsty I have 2 gold rings with it and one arcane.. on the other side twisting path and grasp are literally the same, blockade higher due to burning.. so only question left is about hilarious difference in impale damage.

What's particularly odd as you are running higher crit and crit damage not withstanding you not running spell strat, I find the impale crit difference between his parse and yours confusing, with your stats surely you should have higher crit damage, yet he's almost 20k above you on that hit.

MaxJrFTW · May 2019

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

The 200 CP isn’t a big deal, and will affect your DPS by less than 10%.

Why lie when we all know that isn't true?