Time for a generic magicka execute spell?

Avran_Sylt · May 2019

@idk

Please @ me (or quote) when you respond so I get a notice.

[snip]

Tell me what Executes MagDKs have access to.

(Also if you noticed the Edgecase I specified, that's the niche "It's better than everything else")

[Edited for baiting]

Avran_Sylt · May 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

No, this will never happen, since magDK will immediately became crazy OP in PVP.

I might be out of the loop, but isn't it generally StamDK that are the ones that are already fairly good bruisers (Have an execute too)? Didn't really think that MagDK was really in the running for MetaMancer.

Savos_Saren · May 2019

Dojohoda wrote: »

No, that would lead to a nerf to Master Staff. Pick something else.

(Those without an execute and who really want something can try the jewelry Bloodthirsty trait.)

You realize that a class has a stamina class execute, has access to all three weapon executes, AND can use Bloodthirsty jewelry, right?

Savos_Saren · May 2019

CaptainVenom wrote: »

Well, I know most class execute skills are magicka-based... but we have three weapon execute skills for stamina to compensate. Some classes like Necromancer and Warden don't have a specific execute skill, so what about a destruction staff one? Destructive Touch seems to be a good candidate. It could work the same way Poison Injection does (damage over time deals additional damage to low health enemies). What do you think?

I honestly think they need to put the execute on a different skill line or introduce two new weapons in general. One stamina-based and one magicka-based.

It would be a good time to introduce another stamina ranged weapon and a magicka melee weapon that has an AOE execute (a la whirling blades) and a magicka version of bleeds (which completely ignores spell resistances). Time to even the playing field.

Avran_Sylt · May 2019

@Savos_Saren

IMO they could really just expand upon the Soul Magic skilltree for magicka based bleeds (Oblivion Damage), if they decided not to pursue more weapons. Could even purse it for the AoE Magicka execute.

Savos_Saren · May 2019

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Savos_Saren

IMO they could really just expand upon the Soul Magic skilltree for magicka based bleeds (Oblivion Damage), if they decided not to pursue more weapons. Could even purse it for the AoE Magicka execute.

@Avran_Sylt
Yes, that wouldn't be a bad idea. They could introduce the "Bound Weapons" (spectral) for melee magicka builds.

Also, Oblivion damage (unmitigated damage that is neither physical or magic) isn't the magicka version of bleeds. Bleeds ignore all physical resistances and can stack with Oblivion damage. Magicka bleeds would ignore all spell resistances and stack with Oblivion damage as well.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · May 2019

I miss the good old days where this would have turned into a nerf radiant discussion by 80% of the responders.

Also, anyone who thinks that radiant isn’t useful has never PVP’d. It’s still amazing. The shorter duration is actually a buff. Thanks for that complainers! You got what you asked for.

Avran_Sylt · May 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Savos_Saren

IMO they could really just expand upon the Soul Magic skilltree for magicka based bleeds (Oblivion Damage), if they decided not to pursue more weapons. Could even purse it for the AoE Magicka execute.

@Avran_Sylt
Yes, that wouldn't be a bad idea. They could introduce the "Bound Weapons" (spectral) for melee magicka builds.

Also, Oblivion damage (unmitigated damage that is neither physical or magic) isn't the magicka version of bleeds. Bleeds ignore all physical resistances and can stack with Oblivion damage. Magicka bleeds would ignore all spell resistances and stack with Oblivion damage as well.

@Savos_Saren

Oh right, Oblivion Damage ignores Damage shields. Out of curiosity, do Bleeds ignore Block? Or are Bleed ticks also reduced by blocking?

Then I suppose you'd have to consult lore-master Lawrence or someone to figure out what cannon barrier piercing (But not damage shield piercing) damage type there can be.

UppGRAYxDD · May 2019

Been saying this for years.... one Impulse morph needs to be reworked to be an execute. Or just make each weapon skill tree have a magicka and stamina version. Or, give us a friggin Conjured weapons skill line with a magicka execute.

idk · May 2019

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@idk

Please @ me (or quote) when you respond so I get a notice.

To be cute again, swing and a miss.

Tell me what Executes MagDKs have access to.

(Also if you noticed the Edgecase I specified, that's the niche "It's better than everything else")

@Avran_Sylt

This thread isn’t about a DK execute. Read the OP if there is any confusion on your part.

My previous comments stand solid and sound.

Illuvatarr · May 2019

Mages Fury is class defining for sorcs and frankly they were originally designed to be the magicka ranged direct damage spec/toon. If you want a magicka execute, play a Sorcerer and slot it. Asking for it is like sorcs asking for total dark or a spell reflect.

Sanguinor2 · May 2019

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Mages Fury is class defining for sorcs and frankly they were originally designed to be the magicka ranged direct damage spec/toon. If you want a magicka execute, play a Sorcerer and slot it. Asking for it is like sorcs asking for total dark or a spell reflect.

No one is threatening to take mages fury away. All classes were originally designed to be able to do anything, other classes have magicka executes aswell and to my Knowledge magwarden (alltho only on an ult), magplar and magblade are all non sorcerer classes. Asking for an execute to be accessible to everyone is not like a sorc asking for specific class skills that are only accessible to one class.

Avran_Sylt · May 2019

@idk

Your comments don't stand at all. Adding a useful execute doesn't mean more damage. It could be a lateral option (Different Utility, Same Damage) for classes that already have access to their own class Magicka execute. This thread is referring to classes that don't have an execute, so any kind of execute, even if it has lower damage than meta executes, will still work.

OP refers to classes without a Magicka Ability Execute. Of which DK is also one. So don't dodge the question. But I suppose if you want to keep it on topic: Name a single-target non-ultimate Execute that Necromancers and Wardens have. If you can't, then explain how adding an execute that deals roughly the same damage as meta classes executes, will not interest classes without access to Magicka based Class executes.

Once again, you swing and miss. Assuming that your previous comments were worth any salt to begin with.

Avran_Sylt · May 2019

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Mages Fury is class defining for sorcs and frankly they were originally designed to be the magicka ranged direct damage spec/toon. If you want a magicka execute, play a Sorcerer and slot it. Asking for it is like sorcs asking for total dark or a spell reflect.

@Illuvatarr

Right, Sorcs have a class defining DELAYED IMMEDIATE EXECUTE + AoE upon threshold (you can pre-load it into burst). Most other Classes, and Stamina weapons, have Abilities that deal more damage on SUCCESSIVE casts once your target reaches a health threshold.

(MagNB, MagPlar, have a ranged ST execute, so that isn't unique to Sorc)

Emma_Overload · May 2019

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

No magic needs nerfs not an insane buff like this. I mean magwarden PvP is OP and necromancer parses ridiculously high in pve.

LOL, WHAT? I can't even remember the last time I saw a Magicka Warden spell in my death recap. And Necromancer parses high on DUMMIES that let you stand right in front of them. Try using Blastbones on a real boss at range and see how great Necro DPS is.

idk · May 2019

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Your comments don't stand at all. Adding a useful execute doesn't mean more damage. It could be a lateral option (Different Utility, Same Damage) for classes that already have access to their own class Magicka execute. This thread is referring to classes that don't have an execute, so any kind of execute, even if it has lower damage than meta executes, will still work.

OP refers to classes without a Magicka Ability Execute. Of which DK is also one. So don't dodge the question. But I suppose if you want to keep it on topic: Name a single-target non-ultimate Execute that Necromancers and Wardens have. If you can't, then explain how adding an execute that deals roughly the same damage as meta classes executes, will not interest classes without access to Magicka based Class executes.

Once again, you swing and miss. Assuming that your previous comments were worth any salt to begin with.

You could not be more wrong. Based on the comment above you seem very confused about what a properly designed execute skill does or you are advocating for a trash skill to be added to the game. If the execute is not added to the damage over a regular rotation when the target is below X health it is poorly designed.

I removed your DK comments because this thread is not about DKs. Referring to them is irrelevant since what is being advocated is a skill available to all classes. Your attempt to fixate on DKs just shows how weak your argument is.

BTW, I did not tag you on purpose as I do not care about this pointless argument and do not care about your response unless it actually has some substance or logic instead of the strawman argument you have been presenting.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · May 2019

[Quoted post has been removed.]

Necro have the crit passive excecute
So if there is a generic mag execute they may need to tone it down

Avran_Sylt · May 2019

@Dark_Lord_Kuro

Yeah, true. Prolly have to take a look at a solid MagMeta build, check the lowest DPS DoT, multiply it by 4 and add the Spammable DPS to get an estimate of what an Execute would look like on a Nec to see if it's viable.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · May 2019

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

[Quoted post has been removed.]

Nerco yave the crit passive excecute
So if there is a generic mag execute they may need to tone it down

Because executioner and whirling blades Totally made them tone down that passive.

Sanguinor2 · May 2019

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Nerco yave the crit passive excecute
So if there is a generic mag execute they may need to tone it down

You can hit constant 100k+ executes on a stamcro without an optimized Setup so I dont really see the Problem with mag being able to do the same.

idk · May 2019

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

[Quoted post has been removed.]

Necro have the crit passive excecute
So if there is a generic mag execute they may need to tone it down

It is things like this that I was alluding to in my first comment in this thread since any execute that is worthwhile will increase damage, hence power creep unless other areas are nerfed.

We have seen Zos buff skills previously, sometimes in answer to comments made in the forums, and it is those moves by Zos that are the lions chare of the huge power creep we have experienced in the last few years.

p00tx · May 2019

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

No magic needs nerfs not an insane buff like this. I mean magwarden PvP is OP and necromancer parses ridiculously high in pve.

Yes, because we [mag users] can definitely run around in heavy armor while still doing insane amounts of dmg...oh wait...that's stam. My bad. Carry on.

Avran_Sylt · May 2019

idk wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

[Quoted post has been removed.]

Necro have the crit passive excecute
So if there is a generic mag execute they may need to tone it down

It is things like this that I was alluding to in my first comment in this thread since any execute that is worthwhile will increase damage, hence power creep unless other areas are nerfed.

We have seen Zos buff skills previously, sometimes in answer to comments made in the forums, and it is those moves by Zos that are the lions chare of the huge power creep we have experienced in the last few years.

@idk

It's why I was saying [X] damage, increased by [Y]%, to target under [Z]% HP originally before you went all "This it total powercreep". The skill itself would need a lot of testing to actually get the numbers right so it doesn't cause Classes without MagExecute to get overbuffed, and the more easily prevented one : being stronger than a Classes existing MagExecute.

idk · May 2019

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

[Quoted post has been removed.]

Necro have the crit passive excecute
So if there is a generic mag execute they may need to tone it down

It is things like this that I was alluding to in my first comment in this thread since any execute that is worthwhile will increase damage, hence power creep unless other areas are nerfed.

We have seen Zos buff skills previously, sometimes in answer to comments made in the forums, and it is those moves by Zos that are the lions chare of the huge power creep we have experienced in the last few years.

It's why I was saying [X] damage, increased by [Y]%, to target under [Z]% HP originally before you went all "This it total powercreep". The skill itself would need a lot of testing to actually get the numbers right so it doesn't cause Classes without MagExecute to get overbuffed, and the more easily prevented one : being stronger than a Classes existing MagExecute.

I might have missed it but just went through your comments in this thread and did not see anything like this.

I did see the comment below which is the closest I could find but we all know a useful execute will increase the damage of a build. If it did not then it would not be useful by definition.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Adding a useful execute doesn't mean more damage.

It is also an assumption, huge assumption, that it would not be a better choice for those classes already having an execute as we have seen over the years those executes have been nerfed and buffed. There was a time that the sorc execute was so bad it was a loss of damage for good dps.

Avran_Sylt · May 2019

@idk

...?

Comment #17

if you need me to highlight it:

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@idk

It aint powercreep if you creep only to the bar set by others.

@CaptainVenom

Probably time for one. Best bet would be to make it a Soul Trap morph like others have said, scale it against MagNB Execute.

It would have to no longer be a DoT (So MagNB can't stack it), and be single-target (For sake of simplicity).

IE:

SOUL COMBUSTION - Soul Trap Morph (Replaces Soul Spitting Trap)

"Prey upon the weakened will of your foe by dealing [x] Magic Damage to them, increasing by up to [Y]% while they are below [Z]% Health"

"Turns into a Single Target Ability, no longer applies Damage Over Time"

Thematic Addition (?)

"No longer fills a Soul Gem"

I think this would generally work.

Edge case consideration:
Oblivion's Foe - This should double the execute damage (PvE). Is that balanced? Depends on the Health Threshold (PvP). It might even make it a potential candidate for a Trials set.

And also, as you mention, if an execute for a class is such that it's a DPS loss, then it's kinda poor design anyway, no? (Assuming it has no useful utility aspect)

Mesoz · May 2019

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

[Quoted post has been removed.]

Necro have the crit passive excecute
So if there is a generic mag execute they may need to tone it down

I don't get this logic, stam has access to the same passive and access to executes lol.

idk · May 2019

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@idk

...?

Comment #17

if you need me to highlight it:

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@idk

It aint powercreep if you creep only to the bar set by others.

@CaptainVenom

Probably time for one. Best bet would be to make it a Soul Trap morph like others have said, scale it against MagNB Execute.

It would have to no longer be a DoT (So MagNB can't stack it), and be single-target (For sake of simplicity).

IE:

SOUL COMBUSTION - Soul Trap Morph (Replaces Soul Spitting Trap)

"Prey upon the weakened will of your foe by dealing [x] Magic Damage to them, increasing by up to [Y]% while they are below [Z]% Health"

"Turns into a Single Target Ability, no longer applies Damage Over Time"

Thematic Addition (?)

"No longer fills a Soul Gem"

I think this would generally work.

Edge case consideration:
Oblivion's Foe - This should double the execute damage (PvE). Is that balanced? Depends on the Health Threshold (PvP). It might even make it a potential candidate for a Trials set.

And also, as you mention, if an execute for a class is such that it's a DPS loss, then it's kinda poor design anyway, no? (Assuming it has no useful utility aspect)

Ahh, so I missed it. I tended to not look past the first sentence because it does not make sense.

All that XYZ is doing is spelling out the basics of an execute. It does nothing to address the issues that a worthy execute available to all magicka classes would by definition increase the power creep if it is beneficial to use.

The reason is fairly basic and obvious without having to get into math. An execute is only worth using if it will increase a players damage. Hence adding an execute will increase damage in the game. It is a simple and solid fact and you have not said one thing that actually disputes it.

Have a good day. Going to go raid.

Sanguinor2 · May 2019

Still waiting for a reason why the execute passive + multiple executes is balanced on stam but execute passive + 1 execute would be broken on mag.

russelmmendoza · May 2019

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Make impulse an execute.

2h have an execute skill, why not destruction.

Does +300% more dmg to enemy below 50% hp, does +350% more dmg to enemy below 20% hp.

Impulse will become the new spin2win, and will get changed or nerfed for PVP sake, so no tyvm

Then make it a single target execute skill.

Change the aoe to dot.
Or.
Change the aoe to heal a percentage of damage done to target.
Or.
Change the aoe to a cc.

Kolzki · May 2019

Execute damage is getting pretty crazy in this game.