Cloak should not negate DOTs or Allow Healing

WoppaBoem · May 2019

So I am a MagDK and I am happy the developers listened and changed my wings. The game needs to be enjoyable for all types of gameplay I will adapt.

However in light of the reason why it was nerfed because it completely shutdown ranged play. Cloak is doing the same to me with damage over time. Dots are the main pressure factor of my play style, burning embers, Engulfing Flames, Burning status, Double dot poisons. When a nightblade goes into Cloak these are all fully purged for the duration of Cloak.

This is unacceptable. Cloak should always be in this game, multiple playstyles the more the merrier and this game does not need to be balanced. However we all agree OP skills are not oke especially if they shut down someone's gamestyle completely.

Ether the tooltip needs to be fair and honest to mention during cloak all damage overtime abilities are purged for the duration but better please allow dots to tick during Cloak. As stated no problem a nightblade goes into Cloak but all my DOTs not hitting, Why, and it really sucks. Please change this.

TheYKcid · May 2019

I have never had an easier time fighting NBs as an mDK than I have during Elsweyr.

Spamming Engulfing does a whopping 3/4s the damage of a whip, is completely unavoidable by the NB, and also pulls them out of cloak. It also builds whip stacks, giving you a huge burst to follow-up.

Unsure about directionality and being able to land the conal? Pop a volatile and pull out any NB within 360 degrees.

Purely L2P issue.

WoppaBoem · May 2019

TheYKcid wrote: »

I have never had an easier time fighting NBs as an mDK than I have during Elsweyr.

Spamming Engulfing does a whopping 3/4s the damage of a whip, is completely unavoidable by the NB, and also pulls them out of cloak. It also builds whip stacks, giving you a huge burst to follow-up.

Unsure about directionality and being able to land the conal? Pop a volatile and pull out any NB within 360 degrees.

Purely L2P issue.

No not learn to play. This is about game mechanics, I can do all you mention that is not rocket science dude we all know that and can do that. It is about unfair game mechanics, they can use rally in Cloak and heal during cloak but DOTs dont damage them.

It also makes no sense, Cloak is not invisibility, it going onto the oblivion plane whereby all DOTs are left behind in the normal realm.....

TheYKcid · May 2019

If we're talking game mechanics, then you're also wrong about it being a purge.

A purge removes negative effects, Cloak does not. It suppresses DoT ticks by turning them into forced misses, which is a necessity for the function of the skill because any damage instance (even DoT ticks) will break invisibility, as we all saw during Summerset when Sload's was ticking through cloak.

It is also absolutely an L2P issue, because you wouldn't be struggling against NBs if you were proficient with your toolkit. Especially not in the Elsweyr update, of all times.

WoppaBoem · May 2019

TheYKcid wrote: »

If we're talking game mechanics, then you're also wrong about it being a purge.

A purge removes negative effects, Cloak does not. It suppresses DoT ticks by turning them into forced misses, which is a necessity for the function of the skill because any damage instance (even DoT ticks) will break invisibility, as we all saw during Summerset when Sload's was ticking through cloak.

It is also absolutely an L2P issue, because you wouldn't be struggling against NBs if you were proficient with your toolkit. Especially not in the Elsweyr update, of all times.

I get that, that why I also said it should state it should mention in the tooltip during Cloak all damage over time abilities are missed, as ZOS is focusing on overloaded skills that should attracts everybody attention. It would be fair if damage does not tick but also heals don't tick. Making a full hide and escape ability. The current state is an unfair advantage just like wings before the update completely shutting down a playstyle.

Deathlord92 · May 2019

Nightblades are rogues and rogues are suppose to be able to escape stop trying to ruin the identity of class it won’t be healthy for the game it’s like removing your dk volitile armor and replacing it with something useless.

Anyron · May 2019

i dont think cloak can "completely shut down playstyle"

ofc if you play ranged build you can have difficulty to catch NB when he is using cloak. but i doesnt mean your playstyle is shut down

on the other hand, healing while cloaked surely IS problem. it was said many times.
if that NB is using swift build, its even bigger problem. good luck to fight with such one when always when he/she is at low health, (he/she) just use cloak and reappear at full health far away

personaly, i think NB is stronger without shadowy disguise. Swift build with forward momentum for snare removal, with 5 medium, using vigor and dark cloak as healing and using line-of-sight
hit and run playstyle.

removing this invisibility could be good because then NBs can realize there is better way how to play game ( just like they nerfed shields and healing ward and sorcerers started using pets - they are now much stronger than before)

Baphomet · May 2019

I don't have an issue with cloak working as it does - but in the name of unhealthy gameplay which was the reason wings were changed, cloak shouldn't negate DoTs and must be fixed.

Anyron · May 2019

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Nightblades are rogues and rogues are suppose to be able to escape stop trying to ruin the identity of class it won’t be healthy for the game it’s like removing your dk volitile armor and replacing it with something useless.

they are rogues but invisibility isnt their identity. just like sorcs identity isnt ward, DKs volatile armor or templars heals

even without cloak you can still play like rogue with same success

WoppaBoem · May 2019

Anyron wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Nightblades are rogues and rogues are suppose to be able to escape stop trying to ruin the identity of class it won’t be healthy for the game it’s like removing your dk volitile armor and replacing it with something useless.

they are rogues but invisibility isnt their identity. just like sorcs identity isnt ward, DKs volatile armor or templars heals

even without cloak you can still play like rogue with same success

That is oke, but many Nightblades make it the centre of their gameplay, which is perfectly fine, Cloak should never be removed. However it negate all DOT's as was pointed out the mechanics of Cloak need to do this as damage breaks the Cloak. But in fairness then also healing should be negated.

The mechanics are what they are but thinking about it logical it does not make sense, going into cloak and all damage over time abilities don't hit anymore and oh yes your healing over time does. Not the best design.

Tommy_The_Gun · May 2019

OP, cloak was always designed this way. In fact back in 2014, cloak did not have dot supresssion but instead it had negative effect removal (purge). And it was something ridicolous like 5 -7 effects on a single cast. So it was much more powerfull as you could purge almost everything... siege, curse, snare, root etc.

Removing dot suppression would require to put something else instead. And judging how cloak with build in purge was super broken I can see why they went for DOT suppression.

WoppaBoem · May 2019

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

OP, cloak was always designed this way. In fact back in 2014, cloak did not have dot supresssion but instead it had negative effect removal (purge). And it was something ridicolous like 7 - 10 effects on a single cast. So it was much more powerfull as you could purge almost everything... siege, curse, snare, root etc.

Removing dot supression would require to put something else instead.

I would say it gets back the full purge of all negative effects during duration but suppresses healing during duration. Once out of Cloak all applies again.

hakan · May 2019

Cloak's dot suppress comes from a bug where they couldnt prevent dots breaking cloak. I believe that was the issue. So, they can change the tooltip as intended or let dots hit without breaking cloak.

As for other posters.. If you dont like cloak, thats fine. Doesnt mean it should be removed. Yeah you can play with it or without it. Stop arguing.

Silver_Strider · May 2019

I still don't mess with DK as a NB because their DoTs hurt like a B and cloak doesn't always allows me to escape if they're skilled enough.

idk · May 2019

What is unacceptable is people calling for a nerf to cloak because they are not using the available counters successfully or not bothering to use them at all.

I easily say this because I use the counters and do not find an issue like what OP is suggesting they have since NBs I find are dead more often than not. Learn to use the counters and that will get the job done for you.

WoppaBoem · May 2019

idk wrote: »

What is unacceptable is people calling for a nerf to cloak because they are not using the available counters successfully or not bothering to use them at all.

I easily say this because I use the counters and do not find an issue like what OP is suggesting they have since NBs I find are dead more often than not. Learn to use the counters and that will get the job done for you.

Again its not about that. Counters are oke. And if you never loss a NB on open field you are a star but a skilled NB open field will be able to escape and attack again. And that is fine, Cloak itself is not the problem. The mechanics are, NB's enter like a different realm that negates all DOTs. That I find bad design. Plus on that you can heal in that different 'realm'

kookster · May 2019

I agree that cloak should not disable dots, feels like a sloppy fix to everything pulling nb's out of cloak. I do think healing should be allowed though in cloak.

Luminide · May 2019

If you remove cloak's dot suppression all the stamblades will also disappear. At least the stealth based ones, the remaining ones will swap to dark cloak builds.

This suggestion would be somewhat okay if the class had some in built powerful purge but considering the only healing gained is through rally and vigor it would become laughably easy to kill stamblades.

Saying it shuts down your playstyle is a bit extreme considering cloak already has counters whether it's detect pots, magelight any aoe or in this case engulfing/volatile armor which open them up to that dot pressure again, even if you have absolutely no direct damage.

Usually don't defer to saying this but it really does sound like an L2P issue imo.

If you still don't really believe it, you can always roll up a stamblade and try it out yourself.

DemonDruaga · May 2019

Give them the supresses 50% dot dmg while in cloak treatment.
It is a buff if you...
And is a nerf if you...

Blinkin8r · May 2019

L2P. It's a simple issue of breaking cloak. DK's are good at that. Learn to break NB's cloak or roll an "OP" nightblade.

N00BxV1 · May 2019

In a nutshell:

NB: "I don't like wings and want to kill the DK easier."
Devs: "Ok little buddy, we've clipped them just for you!"

All classes: "Cloak is a crutch and should be changed."
NB: "No it's not. L2P lols"

Silver_Strider · May 2019

N00BxV1 wrote: »

In a nutshell:

NB: "I don't like wings and want to kill the DK easier."
Devs: "Ok little buddy, we've clipped them just for you!"

All classes: "Cloak is a crutch and should be changed."
NB: "No it's not. L2P lols"

Difference being that, unless you built specifically around countering Wings, you were screwed as a Ranged Built vs Cloak that is broken by any amount of AoE, several Detect Skills and Detect Pots.

Illuvatarr · May 2019

Nightblades are fine. Use elemental blockade and stand in it.

N00BxV1 · May 2019

Silver_Strider wrote: »

N00BxV1 wrote: »

In a nutshell:

NB: "I don't like wings and want to kill the DK easier."
Devs: "Ok little buddy, we've clipped them just for you!"

All classes: "Cloak is a crutch and should be changed."
NB: "No it's not. L2P lols"

Difference being that, unless you built specifically around countering Wings, you were screwed as a Ranged Built vs Cloak that is broken by any amount of AoE, several Detect Skills and Detect Pots.

Not all ranged builds were screwed by Wings, just the ones that carelessly spammed reflectable skills without ever trying to adapt or L2P. And thanks for pointing out that in order to counter Cloak one would have to build specifically for it. Without AOE or detect skills/pots, that precious NB will just vanish without a trace only to return when it's ready to fight again. Too bad the DK doesn't have an escape option like that...

I think 50% dot reduction and none/reduced healing while cloaked would be fair.

Spartabunny08 · May 2019

Funny thought... What if while cloaked and a dot on the nightblade it stored the damage and once cloak ended it gave the nightblade the damage stored. Just a funny thought...

Hotdog_23 · May 2019

I know my opinion does not really matter but since cloak suppress all DOT's then it should suppress all healing as well. Give NBs another heal outside of cloak.

Gnozo · May 2019

There are 2 similiar skills to cloak in the game atm.

First one is Streak wich gets increased cost upon frequently casts.

The other one is Mist Form. Wich surpresses every healing and magicka Regeneration.

So these 2 skills Always have a downside. Cloak doesnt.

Regeneration still active allowing to stay in cloak longer, healing active allowing you to cloak at 5% hp and come out of cloak with 100%. Surpressing every dot that the enemy put on you, evade projectiles,proc Major Ward/resolve and get a garantued crit upon your next damage or healing.

Kinda overloaded this skill. If they cant make it that dots are still going. At least remove magicka regen and healing while being cloaked.

BlueRaven · May 2019

We should start keeping a running tally of all the times PvP players call for nerfs.

master_vanargand · May 2019

Are you still shouting "Nerf NB"?
I think that what you need is Skooma.

WuffyCerulei · May 2019

I’m all for kicking NBs down from their pedastal, but they got nerfed plenty in Elsweyr. No need to gut a class completely. So just git gud and l2p.

Royalthought · May 2019

Gnozo wrote: »

There are 2 similiar skills to cloak in the game atm.

First one is Streak wich gets increased cost upon frequently casts.

The other one is Mist Form. Wich surpresses every healing and magicka Regeneration.

So these 2 skills Always have a downside. Cloak doesnt.

Regeneration still active allowing to stay in cloak longer, healing active allowing you to cloak at 5% hp and come out of cloak with 100%. Surpressing every dot that the enemy put on you, evade projectiles,proc Major Ward/resolve and get a garantued crit upon your next damage or healing.

Kinda overloaded this skill. If they cant make it that dots are still going. At least remove magicka regen and healing while being cloaked.

Youre wrong.

Streak is akin to dodge roll. So is mist form.

Cloak is akin to shield.

You know why shield doesnt have an increased cost or heal/regen supression? Because its an awful idea. Same for cloak.

Nightblades have already had tanking, healing and the last thing they excelled at, single target dps, nerfed.

The fact that after this patch, off all patches, you want more nerfs...............

Im starting to question value of zos listening to the forum.