Request for the Removal of Faction Locks.

Ixilith · May 2019

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

therift wrote: »

If you support faction-lock, nothing is gained by denigrating players who oppose. All that does is divide the PvP community and entrench opposition. After all, the handful that abuse the ability to switch factions at will aren't posting in the forums.

Those who oppose faction lock are a detriment to the game. We should not be offering faction lock as an option.

People playing a map as designed is a detriment. Actually trying to win the objective is a detriment, you are aware your the actual detriment ur in a mode with a objective. Ignoring that objective, letting your team effectively lose at the cost of your own wants? That’s litterally detrimental to the game itself

Why should a player IGNORING the systems. The objective and actively increasing their factions chances of losing be prioritised above people actually playing the game as intended?

This would be like letting raiders suffer to create a more roleplay friendly environment in raid zones lol

I ain’t AD I ain’t a faction hopper. I don’t see where u build a expectation for this to really be built around players wanting to 1vX instead of winning.

AlnilamE · May 2019

cyberjanet wrote: »

There needs to be at least one 30 day campaign with no faction lock. Or more campaigns. Three factions locking into two campaigns does not go. Simple arithmetic.

If you do not care about your faction winning a campaign, then you should not be in the 30-day anyway.

Maybe ZOS should just make the requirement for getting 50 transmute stones in the 30-day to be Tier 3 instead of Tier 1 (and put the 10 stone cyrstals into Tier 1).

That way it equalizes the 30-day and the 7-day and people can go play the 7-day if they want.

ilcavallo · May 2019

templesus wrote: »

This is from the perspective of a small scale PvP player.

We don’t want smaller fights, we want larger outnumbered fights. We enjoy the challenge, even if we get zerged down. That’s the rush, the fun, trying to pull off the unthinkable. Let me make this perfectly clear for everyone; We small scalers do not care who wins or who loses the campaign. We do not care about the current score, we do not care about who’s emp, we do not care about joining a zerg. We are simply looking for outnumbered fights, regardless of the faction.

You simply cannot do that if your faction is zerging everyone else into the floor, there are physically no fights to be had.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ll have no qualms with factions locks when my faction with my main character is the one with the least population, but I simply cannot enjoy this game if I go into the only populated campaign only to find my faction is zerging everything down; effectively killing off all the fights all throughout cyrodiil. Regardless of faction, we all know this will happen at some point or another, so that’s why I and several others are so vocal against faction locks.

BGs is not a viable alternative as I have to sit in 30 minute queues on my main to find a match that just is not fun due to the completely unbalanced nature of them from the very core. IC is not a viable option because it’s filled with too much PvE nonsense that gets in the way and inhibits fights (imagine I’d you were in vSSHM and a PvP came out of nowhere and starting attacking you with the boss).

Add competitive arenas to the game and you can faction lock EVERY campaign for all I care, at least then the good PvP players would have something meaningful occupying majority of our time, but of course these would have to be meticulously implemented (I actually have a post on how it can be done).

Until that happens, I am formally requesting on behalf of the entire small-scaler community, that faction locks be removed.

@ZoS_GinaBruno

It's an alliance war. Pick an alliance - as in one alliance

I hear you about wanting more small scale. But that problem lies with the combat team and how they've changed the game.

rynth · May 2019

Faction lock was only good for Zerg guilds and their crying. Now if you have friends other factions you can’t play with them on another character different faction. Zoe should have created pvp zone with faction lock and left the rest alone.

Runkorko · May 2019

rynth wrote: »

Faction lock was only good for Zerg guilds and their crying.

Not true.

rynth wrote: »

Now if you have friends other factions you can’t play with them on another character different faction

PvP you mean ...
Wana pvp together ? Level character in the same faction.
Take 2-3 days.
Back in time we cant even PvE with other factions.

Qbiken · May 2019

All these people coming up with excuses why small-scale shouldn't exist in a 30 day campaign....hahahahahhah

Vapirko · May 2019

Wildberryjack wrote: »

If I go in to see another faction controls most of the map I'm leaving and that's it. Period. I don't PvP often and I'm not wasting my time like that. I'll continue my PvE adventures and check back in a month.

That’s kinda silly. It changes by the hour(s).

As for faction lock, even though EP is dominating the score in Sotha on NA, I feel like there is a lot less of this AD and EP hitting DC home keeps despite no emp/scrolls. I’m all DC so I couldn’t care less either way. But so far I’m enjoying the dynamic of faction locks.

Zer0oo · May 2019

So much fun to being able only to play 1/3 of your characters.

Runkorko · May 2019

Zer0oo wrote: »

So much fun to being able only to play 1/3 of your characters.

Play others in diferent campaings ?

Luckylancer · May 2019

Did you try caping all resources around "scroll gate keeps"? It will cause a response most of time.

DreadDaedroth · May 2019

Free the 30 days campaigns and faction lock the 7 days ones, so those who want the lock should be happier, as there'd be more locked campaigns during the year.

templesus · May 2019

Moonsorrow wrote: »

All the polls that been done on this subject have had something like 70% supporting the alliance locks, so a big majority. Even the most recent one, poll from after Elsweyr preorder launch had same results. Search them out if not believe just my word on it.

Majority of people like the locks.

What i always find funny though is, why some who say they are "small scale players" try to tell people the best way to challenge themselves is to fight the zerg? Seriously, if you would be honest about things you can openly admit that:

1. with a good small scale group can easily take out a non-coordinated pug zerg of 20+, its not even a challenge. Most of them just give free cc immunities at wrong times (no coordinated burst/ulti dump), bad damage that just gets stuff like Fury stacks and other procs up, BS procs on cooldown.. easy to then just ultidump those numbers at chokepoints.

2. biggest challenge to good small scale group is actually other similar group, say 4vs4 or 6vs6 or what you prefer. And i mean a realistic challenge, because a big ballgroup that is actually fully organized is not doable, because you cannot even outdamage their healers basic Springs spamming, if its one of those tightly stacked highly experienced ones.

You do not need to keep switching alliances to find those fights. You actually get those in battlegrounds when you do it at times when you know other small scalers have their run times too. Most bad small scalers prefer farming "noobs" at resource towers though while thinking they are great pvpers. It makes better youtube videos though to show killing 20+ uncoordinated pugs who come in without a clue than being wrecked by another small group. Think its ego issues i guess.

Just some observations after years of solo & small scale action. There is not that many honest old school small scalers left here on forums anymore, few, but yeah.. not many who even admit what i just said. But those who been doing this for years all know the facts anyways.

We’ve been playing two separate games if it’s easy for 4 people to wipe 20. The zergs of 20 my small group fights all have earthgores bogdans and numerous healing ultimates. Why would I admit what is not the truth? Everyone has different experiences, for you to come on here and call people flat out liars is extremely disrespectful.

Runkorko · May 2019

templesus wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

All the polls that been done on this subject have had something like 70% supporting the alliance locks, so a big majority. Even the most recent one, poll from after Elsweyr preorder launch had same results. Search them out if not believe just my word on it.

Majority of people like the locks.

What i always find funny though is, why some who say they are "small scale players" try to tell people the best way to challenge themselves is to fight the zerg? Seriously, if you would be honest about things you can openly admit that:

1. with a good small scale group can easily take out a non-coordinated pug zerg of 20+, its not even a challenge. Most of them just give free cc immunities at wrong times (no coordinated burst/ulti dump), bad damage that just gets stuff like Fury stacks and other procs up, BS procs on cooldown.. easy to then just ultidump those numbers at chokepoints.

2. biggest challenge to good small scale group is actually other similar group, say 4vs4 or 6vs6 or what you prefer. And i mean a realistic challenge, because a big ballgroup that is actually fully organized is not doable, because you cannot even outdamage their healers basic Springs spamming, if its one of those tightly stacked highly experienced ones.

You do not need to keep switching alliances to find those fights. You actually get those in battlegrounds when you do it at times when you know other small scalers have their run times too. Most bad small scalers prefer farming "noobs" at resource towers though while thinking they are great pvpers. It makes better youtube videos though to show killing 20+ uncoordinated pugs who come in without a clue than being wrecked by another small group. Think its ego issues i guess.

Just some observations after years of solo & small scale action. There is not that many honest old school small scalers left here on forums anymore, few, but yeah.. not many who even admit what i just said. But those who been doing this for years all know the facts anyways.

We’ve been playing two separate games if it’s easy for 4 people to wipe 20. The zergs of 20 my small group fights all have earthgores bogdans and numerous healing ultimates. Why would I admit what is not the truth? Everyone has different experiences, for you to come on here and call people flat out liars is extremely disrespectful.

Since when 20 ppl are zerg?

Chrysa1is · May 2019

Please don't remove faction lock. It is good

Gordon906 · May 2019

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

All the polls that been done on this subject have had something like 70% supporting the alliance locks, so a big majority. Even the most recent one, poll from after Elsweyr preorder launch had same results. Search them out if not believe just my word on it.

Majority of people like the locks.

What i always find funny though is, why some who say they are "small scale players" try to tell people the best way to challenge themselves is to fight the zerg? Seriously, if you would be honest about things you can openly admit that:

1. with a good small scale group can easily take out a non-coordinated pug zerg of 20+, its not even a challenge. Most of them just give free cc immunities at wrong times (no coordinated burst/ulti dump), bad damage that just gets stuff like Fury stacks and other procs up, BS procs on cooldown.. easy to then just ultidump those numbers at chokepoints.

2. biggest challenge to good small scale group is actually other similar group, say 4vs4 or 6vs6 or what you prefer. And i mean a realistic challenge, because a big ballgroup that is actually fully organized is not doable, because you cannot even outdamage their healers basic Springs spamming, if its one of those tightly stacked highly experienced ones.

You do not need to keep switching alliances to find those fights. You actually get those in battlegrounds when you do it at times when you know other small scalers have their run times too. Most bad small scalers prefer farming "noobs" at resource towers though while thinking they are great pvpers. It makes better youtube videos though to show killing 20+ uncoordinated pugs who come in without a clue than being wrecked by another small group. Think its ego issues i guess.

Just some observations after years of solo & small scale action. There is not that many honest old school small scalers left here on forums anymore, few, but yeah.. not many who even admit what i just said. But those who been doing this for years all know the facts anyways.

We’ve been playing two separate games if it’s easy for 4 people to wipe 20. The zergs of 20 my small group fights all have earthgores bogdans and numerous healing ultimates. Why would I admit what is not the truth? Everyone has different experiences, for you to come on here and call people flat out liars is extremely disrespectful.

Since when 20 ppl are zerg?

I've seen people pulling off multiple groups of 24s, and it was crazy.

Sarousse · May 2019

Faction lock is fantastic. Thank you ZoS. This game needed faction pride.

Now let's hate the covenant and the dominion like they really deserve it !

Runkorko · May 2019

Sarousse wrote: »

Faction lock is fantastic. Thank you ZoS. This game needed faction pride.

Now let's hate the covenant and the dominion like they really deserve it !

They do.
Not long before we see green aliance reborn ...

rynth · May 2019

Faction lock is for EP player Zerg guilds that have no talent except for maybe a few players. All of the rest are bowtards that spam snipe and poison injection

Moonsorrow · May 2019

templesus wrote: »

We’ve been playing two separate games if it’s easy for 4 people to wipe 20. The zergs of 20 my small group fights all have earthgores bogdans and numerous healing ultimates. Why would I admit what is not the truth? Everyone has different experiences, for you to come on here and call people flat out liars is extremely disrespectful.

Well, thats how we do it here on PC EU atleast. I`m sure you can find plenty of videos.. killing 20 is just a breakfast size of zerg to warm up the action.

And yeah, of course many zerglings have Earthgores (trust me, i hated when Earthgores came to Golden, because most zerglings cannot do the dungeon lol to get it, it did make keep defense fights facepalming experience when against 40+ and half of them on Earthgore..) and so on proccing, takes a bit of time on this tank meta time sometimes to wipe them out, but thats it.. they have really poor damage and since no coordinated ultimate use, no Negates at right moments, its like fighting against stinging mosquitos. Wait until they are where you want and then slap em.. i mean ultidump.

Biggest challenge is the lag that the entire faction stack brings, not the damage they do, since a competent small scale group with even just 1 dedicated healbot and/or right positioning & movement can just eat them up like AP sweetrolls. You know this.

When i checked things on NA server, i saw couple small groups doing this there too, with pretty much the same setup to the outsiders eye on their team than what is used here on EU. Did look like same kind of easy farming than it is here.. just takes a moment to get the Earthgore procs out of the way as said, but yeah.

What i am saying is and to me its weird if you cannot admit it, that to a skilled small scale group there just is more challenge from a similar experienced small scale group that is also on coms and then it becomes a game of chess, that can actually end up at a fast wipe for either team, or a draw with zero kills even after 15 minutes. Usually the one who has the better Negate+Root timing with ultidump+executes takes out the win. If no Negate on either side, most often ends up in draw due to Remembrance/heal spam. But a good team always has Negate, or you do not take down other good teams with experienced dedicated healers. Simple as that.

But no idea why i am explaining this, you should know all this and the Cyrodiil realities?

MirelaUmbrella · May 2019

therift wrote: »

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Let me make this perfectly clear for everyone; We small scalers do not care who wins or who loses the campaign. We do not care about the current score, we do not care about who’s emp, we do not care about joining a zerg. We are simply looking for outnumbered fights, regardless of the faction.

This kind of player is exactly the kind of person that the game can do without. You don't understand this game at all. Cyrodiil is an Alliance War zone, not a "PvP" zone. I've never understood the mentality of someone that wants to fight 1vX in the setting of a big war.

I can't agree with this statement, despite being a strong supporter of a faction-lock option.

Players who are primarily interested in the challenge of PvP, regardless of campaign outcome, are just as valid and have the same right to play as they wish as I do.

That's why I want a faction-lock option, and not blanket faction-locks that deny players with rainbow rosters the ability to play their whole roster.

The point is to have that option. The question is whether the open 7 day campaigns provide sufficient population to support both play styles.

How would that 'option' work, exactly?. Cause as i see it, we had the option before Elsweyr (just that it wasn't called 'option', players simply would choose if to fight for the same alliance all the time or not) and it didn't go too well, hence the change. If 10 people choose to be locked into one alliance and 10 to be able to roam around, wouldn't that be exactly the same as before? Or, you're speaking about the option to join a locked campaign? Cause we already have that.

JumpmanLane · May 2019

I don't think that ZOS realizes that the vast (and silent ) majority of people who play their game and actually enjoy pvp (outside of zerglings), play all factions, don't play the map per se and pvp just to fight and kill people.

mikemacon · May 2019

No.

barney2525 · May 2019

essi2 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

But when a scoring system is in place games usually don't allow team switches for good reason.

Read the bold.

Why do you expect the game to be shaped around what YOU want?

You are kidding right?

Probably 90% of forums is "This is what I want changed

barney2525 · May 2019

Wildberryjack wrote: »

If I go in to see another faction controls most of the map I'm leaving and that's it. Period. I don't PvP often and I'm not wasting my time like that. I'll continue my PvE adventures and check back in a month.

High Five!

As far as faction lock goes,
I have searched high and low, I have seen 1000 responses pro and con to faction lock.

What I can't find is wtf it Means.

If I want to go to cyradil for the first time, the character has to choose the campaign they will make their "home". And it's pretty expensive to change that. Now they say we have this "faction lock", and I can't find ANY information on what that Means.

So - what is it?

josh.lackey_ESO · May 2019

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

This is a role-playing game, dude. It doesn't matter if you have a PvP build that no one can possibly touch, if your character doesn't have any kind of RP consideration at all, then you suck at this game.

Sadly, faction locks seriously hinder roleplaying because you cannot roleplay unique personal backgrounds for different characters. The account lock prohibits roleplaying characters from all three factions if you want to roleplay a soldier in the alliance war. Its limits your roleplaying to just one faction. It is the most anti-roleplaying thing you can imagine. Not everyone wants to roleplay just one character with just one background.

Seems like you can't understand the difference between roleplaying characters and roleplaying your account, the latter which makes no sense at all.

Moonsorrow · May 2019

JumpmanLane wrote: »

I don't think that ZOS realizes that the vast (and silent ) majority of people who play their game and actually enjoy pvp (outside of zerglings), play all factions, don't play the map per se and pvp just to fight and kill people.

You do know ZOS actually has all the data telling them all the actual statistics on how many people play on each campaign on how many alliances and characters, their playtime by the second for each, all the details. They can at will make very accurate numbers sheet on extremes, averages, majorities and behaviour patterns on all game content, including Cyrodiil.

This is why their changes and balancing adjustments do not make sense to all of us who have no access to all that data so even when we try to look at things not biased, we end up looking a picture without having the actual full picture so at best we fill in the blanks with guesstimates, some more educated than others, but still only numbers from a hat level opinions.

Even the forum polls do not give any full "truths" on the table, but after they have hundreds of people in it and clear advantage on one vote option, results point to atleast to certain direction after taking the margin of error out of the calculation. Margin of error in these cases are people who come in and vote even if they do not care about the issue, not understand it, some answer to troll, some do the "oh, pushed wrong button.." things.. but yeah, on forum polls, most people who are the "quiet" just vote and not do vocal opinion messages about it like most of us vocal extremes on either side of the arguments.

By the way, i am not here to argue on these things, just pointing out some stuff to consider.

Just answer one thing.. IF majority wants no locks and do not want to "play the objectives" or to win campaigns.. then WHY is the 7 days campaign that has NO locks and can do all that some describe they want to do right there and it is "dead" as you say? If majority wanted to play that, that campaign would be after the changes happened the one that is most full 24/7 since majority would play there if thats how majority wants to play? Maybe, just maybe.. one has to admit that way is NOT the way majority wants to play after all, hmm?

After changes did hit live for PC EU, the action been good on old Vivec/Sotha with clearly less trolling. Most do not bother to make 2nd account just for that, even some think so, only like 1% of trolls are so hardcore, people who thought that would happen been wrong, making it not so convenient and easy worked, most people are lazy, even trolls.

Populations been rather balanced all active times of the day. Seen actually some tactics needed to use again to get keeps, instead of some people all logging to 1 side and taking map, then to other and taking it, then to 3rd and taking it also known as flipping map back and forth. It now feels more like it was intended to be, actual war with objective play. Many hardcore pvpers forget that many players rather just switched alliance and joined the zerging side to make it even bigger zerg to get easy AP instead of fighting it when they had nothing to pay for such a switch. Now things stay more healthy, even some been trying to say the opposite. Imagine that, huh?

There are battlegrounds and the 7 day campaign for fast fighting action without locks. A no-cp no lock campaign would be a good addition, might end up not being too popular though, but do not wanna guess it, so personally would be open to have such an option to test if it gains popularity enough to be healthy. Worth a try imo.

If some alliance stays too dominant for a campaign or more, there always will then happen natural correctional movement when some groups join other alliance then. It does not need to happen daily, as has been seen now.

In the end, switching alliances daily in Cyrodiil is same as you being on battlegrounds match and switching side in middle of it to the winning team. (most people switch to winning side, human behaviour). Wait until the match is over and fight again (choose your side, fight against friend guilds from previous campaign, have fun). Do not take the campaign/objective play away from those who enjoy it. Let them RP people rp a 30 days war as its intended to be played. There are options for the FFA style too as before, especially if a NoCP unlocked campaign would be added to the menu.

ZOS_JesC · May 2019

Greetings, as we've had to remove several comments that contained personal attacks and baiting comments, we've decided to close this thread. While it is fine to debate your stance on faction locking, comments need to remain civil and constructive. Baiting comments only derail the thread.