Templar jabs vs NB extraction?

Kidgangster101 · May 2019

So using NB as an example (all aoe moves pretty much got buffed this past patch and now are very very very powerful) compared to a single target move. All these aoe spamables that can be used don't have their damage split so the more targets around the harder your move actually hits to everyone. Then you add in the fact that it is now instant cast and you have crazy aoe damage output.

Now we look at jabs from templar skill line. It is an aoe that is the exact opposite. It is a channel ability so it takes longer to cast, rather than it hitting everyone for equal damage the damage splits amongst targets.

The reason I used NB as the example is because they have the magic/stamina morph of an aoe move much like templar. So can someone tell me why a move that takes longer to cast does less damage and splits on enemies when NB can just spam very potent aoe damage that doesn't split at instant speed?

Yigrok · May 2019

Here we go again, people just want them to remove NB from the game all together i see.

Browiseth · May 2019

Yigrok wrote: »

Here we go again, people just want them to remove NB from the game all together i see.

would that be so bad

Yigrok · May 2019

Browiseth wrote: »

Yigrok wrote: »

Here we go again, people just want them to remove NB from the game all together i see.

would that be so bad

I'd say they should just remove all the classes and let us fight using fists only. That would be best.

TempPlayer · May 2019

I don't know. Maybe because skill is hard coded to only able to fire once per second so it doesn't matter it is channel for 1 sec or instant cast.

Van_Winkle · May 2019

Lol OP templars cry about NB aoe)

Vapirko · May 2019

If you try to look for logic behind a lot of what the combat team does or doesn’t do, you’ll be let down. A better question is why were Templars all but ignored in the great class patch of 2019? Why were Stam Sorcs COMPLETELY ignored? Why did they spend five weeks working on the one class that was fine with a few small adjustments? None of it makes sense.

Kidgangster101 · May 2019

Yigrok wrote: »

Here we go again, people just want them to remove NB from the game all together i see.

Bro you clearly don't read lol. I simply asked why is 1 aoe spamable and good while the other is nerfed the more people is around and sticks you in an animation and you do overall less damage while you are standing still taking more damage in?

Kidgangster101 · May 2019

Van_Winkle wrote: »

Lol OP templars cry about NB aoe)

Op Templars? Lololololol wait are you serious?

Please list all reasons Templars are op and NB is not?

I've been on this forum since day one of this major combat balance NB was fine and they got buffed the entire patch. Tell me one buff templar got? Templar got nerfed so please get out of forum blade mode and realize people want to play more than just NB because this is Elder Stamblades Online.

russelmmendoza · May 2019

I thought sorcs are the one hating on nb.

TempPlayer · May 2019

russelmmendoza wrote: »

I thought sorcs are the one hating on nb.

Oh, sorcs are still hating NB. The OP was comparing first skill in a templar skill line to last skill in a NB skill line.

idk · May 2019

OP, the answer is quite clear. You are comparing skills that have nothing in common design wise and are not intended to be so.

Extraction is a PBAoE and is intended as a pure AoE. Jabs is designed as a channeled single target skill that has a cleave. This is not even getting into OP is not trying to even compare the DPS comparison of the skills and is probably just going off the tooltips.

I am not saying jabs is in a good place or not. I am just saying those skills should not be compared together as AoE skills.

Edit: Sorry to interrupt the trolling each other about which class is in the worst place for DPS classes. lol

Tommy_The_Gun · May 2019

Yigrok wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Yigrok wrote: »

Here we go again, people just want them to remove NB from the game all together i see.

would that be so bad

I'd say they should just remove all the classes and let us fight using fists only. That would be best.

Dont even dare to use those light attacks ! That is cheating !

susmitds · May 2019

Firstly you are wrong in Jabs does less damage than Sap Essence/Power Extraction.

Jabs does around 10% more damage than Power Extraction, if you manage to connect all hits. Add in Burning Light, the number becomes higher.

The damage does not compare to Sap Essence which is 20% weaker than Power Extraction.

The cost per second is also significantly lower for Jabs

Ei8htba11 · May 2019

Browiseth wrote: »

would that be so bad

Yes.

I paid for the game and expansions, and I sub. I'd like to keep playing a class style I brought over from previous games and enjoy now.

Maybe I should ask for a nerf on Sorcs because I've seen them destroy mobs from range. I didn't get to do my awesomewtfbbq moves and it made me sad /s

No, I don't PvP let alone gank.

Kidgangster101 · May 2019

idk wrote: »

OP, the answer is quite clear. You are comparing skills that have nothing in common design wise and are not intended to be so.

Extraction is a PBAoE and is intended as a pure AoE. Jabs is designed as a channeled single target skill that has a cleave. This is not even getting into OP is not trying to even compare the DPS comparison of the skills and is probably just going off the tooltips.

I am not saying jabs is in a good place or not. I am just saying those skills should not be compared together as AoE skills.

Edit: Sorry to interrupt the trolling each other about which class is in the worst place for DPS classes. lol

Nope jabs isn't single target with cleave damage it is aoe damage, how do I know? If I'm 1v1 someone and they pop major evasion my damage is reduced even though I have 0 cleave damage. So in fact jabs should be a pbaoe because it has the same downfall any other aoe does.

idk · May 2019

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

OP, the answer is quite clear. You are comparing skills that have nothing in common design wise and are not intended to be so.

Extraction is a PBAoE and is intended as a pure AoE. Jabs is designed as a channeled single target skill that has a cleave. This is not even getting into OP is not trying to even compare the DPS comparison of the skills and is probably just going off the tooltips.

I am not saying jabs is in a good place or not. I am just saying those skills should not be compared together as AoE skills.

Edit: Sorry to interrupt the trolling each other about which class is in the worst place for DPS classes. lol

Nope jabs isn't single target with cleave damage it is aoe damage, how do I know? If I'm 1v1 someone and they pop major evasion my damage is reduced even though I have 0 cleave damage. So in fact jabs should be a pbaoe because it has the same downfall any other aoe does.

It does not take a rocket scientist to read the tooltips to see the clear intent of the skill nor the fallacy of your argument.

However, one thing is clear from this reply, that is you want jabs turned into power extraction. You want to homogenize the classes to take away their uniqueness so you take skills that are clearly intended to be very different, including a skill that is defining for a class, make it into something else.

Not gonna happen any time soon and you fail to provide a worthy justification for it to be otherwise (because you want it to be so is not a justification).

master_vanargand · May 2019

You should look at Necromancer.
Surely you will go mad and jump off the cliff.
And you become Necromancer and get OP.

laksikus · May 2019

can we compare sweeps + solar barrage vs sap essence next?

Browiseth · May 2019

Ei8htba11 wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

would that be so bad

Yes.

I paid for the game and expansions, and I sub. I'd like to keep playing a class style I brought over from previous games and enjoy now.

Maybe I should ask for a nerf on Sorcs because I've seen them destroy mobs from range. I didn't get to do my awesomewtfbbq moves and it made me sad /s

No, I don't PvP let alone gank.

you paid for a game with the knowledge that it could change drastically and constantly. this is a thing that is mentioned in the TOS i'm 83% sure of it because i really skimmed through the TOS so i'm open to someone correcting me on this.

this is now a delete nb from the game thread

ku5h · May 2019

TempPlayer wrote: »

russelmmendoza wrote: »

I thought sorcs are the one hating on nb.

Oh, sorcs are still hating NB. The OP was comparing first skill in a templar skill line to last skill in a NB skill line.

Lol...so?! Do you really think skill potency is connected to when you unlock it in a skill tree. Lol, some arguments really make me laugh.

Rex-Umbra · May 2019

Jabs might be the most op skill in the game. I can make a templar slot jabs beat all content in the game only using one skill. It does great aoe damage, low cost and heals you.

Sanguinor2 · May 2019

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Jabs might be the most op skill in the game. I can make a templar slot jabs beat all content in the game only using one skill. It does great aoe damage, low cost and heals you.

Yeah Jabs is so op that every remotely serious PvE dps magplar unslots it in favor of a weapon or Guild skill line spammable.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · May 2019

if you dont know it by now, radiant ward has the same damage as sap essence, literally the same. maybe try to compare those 2?

technohic · May 2019

I think the point the OP is trying to get to is jabs is treated as AOE by the game by being subject to AOE mitigation in evasion while the splash damage is not the same as the main damage. I could be wrong on their intent as there is no need to try to single out any classes AOE to say this other than it causes a reaction from 1 of the most vocal playerbase.

JinMori · May 2019

Lol, nb aren't even close to the best dd anymore.

Just please.

To get comparable damage to other stamina classes, aside from stamplar, nb have to sacrifice either aoe or st, they can;t do both at the same time.

Stamblade is not in a good place.

idk · May 2019

technohic wrote: »

I think the point the OP is trying to get to is jabs is treated as AOE by the game by being subject to AOE mitigation in evasion while the splash damage is not the same as the main damage. I could be wrong on their intent as there is no need to try to single out any classes AOE to say this other than it causes a reaction from 1 of the most vocal playerbase.

Not exactly. OP specifically said he wants jabs to be a PBAoE like extraction. They want the skill to be a 360 degree damage radius.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · May 2019

technohic wrote: »

I think the point the OP is trying to get to is jabs is treated as AOE by the game by being subject to AOE mitigation in evasion while the splash damage is not the same as the main damage. I could be wrong on their intent as there is no need to try to single out any classes AOE to say this other than it causes a reaction from 1 of the most vocal playerbase.

the "splash damage"is the main damage though, the closest target simply gets ~160-% more damage, have you read one of the old tooltips ever? take a look-

Biting Jabs: Cost: 2509 Stamina.
Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear and dealing [274 / 278 / 281 / 285] Physical Damage with each strike. The nearest enemy takes 140% additional damage each strike, and their Movement Speed is reduced by 70% for 2 seconds on the final hit. Also grants you Major Savagery, increasing your Weapon Critical rating by 2191 for 8 seconds

the skills nearest enemy percent amp was increased in patch 3.3.5 and bug fixed, see here-

Refactored the damage done by this ability and its morphs so it works more intuitively with damage taken bonuses on the enemy. Previously, Puncturing Strike’s bonus damage to the closest enemy would be additive with damage taken bonuses, such as Minor Vulnerability. This will result in increased damage on targets with Minor Vulnerability.

sweeps/jabs is clearly a aoe skill, albeit a conal aoe and hase more in common with cleave/brawler and not power extraction/sap, with a single target "perk". in contrast to silver shards, where it is a single target skill with an aoe "perk" here-

Silver Shards: Area: 5 meters.
Fire a Dawnguard Vampire Hunter's crossbow bolt to strike an enemy, dealing [5084 / 5139 / 5196 / 5251] Physical Damage and reducing their Movement Speed by 40% for 4 seconds. Fires up to five additional bolts at other enemies near the initial target for [50 / 49 / 48 / 47]% less damage.

Sergykid · May 2019

this is why i don't like these forums. This is post #29, and only posts #12 and #16 answered to OP. Rest are bloat posts.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · May 2019

Sergykid wrote: »

this is why i don't like these forums. This is post #29, and only posts #12 and #16 answered to OP. Rest are bloat posts.

the op is mistaken though, comparing puncturing strikes to Drain Power. they are not the same kind of skill. puncturing strikes is like cleave. drain power is like impulse. they are very different and work in much different ways. potato/tomato.

and i must point out the fact you are complaining about posts being "bloat posts"and your is the most bloaty post in this thread.

Sergykid · May 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

this is why i don't like these forums. This is post #29, and only posts #12 and #16 answered to OP. Rest are bloat posts.

the op is mistaken though, comparing puncturing strikes to Drain Power. they are not the same kind of skill. puncturing strikes is like cleave. drain power is like impulse. they are very different and work in much different ways. potato/tomato.

and i must point out the fact you are complaining about posts being "bloat posts"and your is the most bloaty post in this thread.

i am informing in order to put it to a stop, it's not a bloat post if it has a purpose. A bloat post is yours trying to accuse mine, without any reason or purpose, just like my reply to you now.