Necro abilities being a criminal act is unfair to those of us with ADD/ADHD

OnlyOnThursday · May 2019

Agree

Wifeaggro13 · May 2019

ecru wrote: »

I just earned a 2k bounty because I can't help but fidget with my keys/mouse when I'm standing around. I casted a pet who then decided to kill a NPC (despite the fact that I have the setting to attack NPCs turned off, which pets seem to ignore), which earned me a 1200 bounty, and then in an attempt to not die to the guard who agro'd me I used my mender to stay alive as I got away, earning me an extra 270g bounty every time I recasted the pet to heal.

I don't even really care about the gold. I have ten million gold, so 2k gold doesn't really matter. What does matter to me is being punished because of something that I can't help due to choosing to play a necro. Knowing this is going to earn me a bounty and a possible death every time won't stop me from fidgeting with my keys while I'm not busy. I honestly cannot help it. I know there are people out there like me too because I see them in game every day. That player who is jumping around and casting abilities here and there in town--they probably can't really help it. That's just what they do, that's how they are, and to be punished for it is frankly pretty terrible.

At least give us an option to turn this off. No matter how hard I try to remind myself not to use those keys, I'm going to do it anyway because that's how I am. It's like telling me that even though I have an itch that I really need to scratch, I'm not allowed to, and if I do, I'm going to be punished for it. I'll do it anyway (and you probably would too) because it's an unconscious act or reaction that we can't really help.

Because uhhhh necromancy is illegal in all of tamriel.

technohic · May 2019

I was playing thinking about how few abilities actually are a crime and how I cant see myself even using them in a town. But sure enough; someone comes up with a disability to use.

So by this community, we shouldn't have spiders because arachnophobia. Shouldn't have a 3 nation war because of PTSD. Shouldn't have teabags because of sexual assault. Maybe we shouldn't have khajiit because people are allergic to cats?

Lord-Otto · May 2019

I don't understand.
You have the urge to mash buttons? Okay, can't you just spam the jump button? Or is it the pretty lightings skills generate? Don't you have a shield or heal or AoE (won't hit NPCs) you can marvel at? Gotta move the mouse? Can't you just Ogre twitch the crosshairs? Even I do that compulsively.
Why are those single-target skills a problem to your condition?
And that applies to other people not wanting a bounty, too.

@technohic
We should most definitely not have Khajiiti.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · May 2019

4.4% of the adult population (as far as US goes) has ADHD. Sorry you got the short end of the life stick. Personally I jump everywhere I go because I too am fidgety. OCD though. Majority cannot simply cater to every single issue out there. Hope you get it figured out.

Riejael · May 2019

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I don't understand.
You have the urge to mash buttons? Okay, can't you just spam the jump button? Or is it the pretty lightings skills generate?

You don't understand because the @OP is making a fantasy. ADHD does not cause someone to spam abilities uncontrollably in a video game. This is a nontroversy.

Cerra · May 2019

Vampires and Werewolves shouldn't choose to be them simply for the power they give. It's not just another skill line, it's a huge change to your character's life. It's completely optional and it SHOULD give a bounty if you are witnessed by an innocent just like a necromancer's skills do.

I'm playing a necromancer and I'm careful with those skills. I haven't been witnessed yet in the wilds but if I am that's the risk I take.

My only idea for this would be to remove gained bounties if you can kill all witnesses before they get away. If an innocent sees you, they should run and if they get away then you get the bounty.

jbjondeaueb17_ESO · May 2019

Personally I'd like to see people not calling others "autistic" or very similar terms when they are 99.9% of the times simply total [edited].
But it's unfortunately used a lot by players who don't understand (or worst don't care about) the huge difference between the two and it's not going to change sadly.

CMDR_Un1k0rn · May 2019

ecru wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

No. OP is just playing the victim card to try and get his own way, everyone else be damned.

lol holy *** I'm not claiming to be a victim, it's just extremely annoying.

There are some pretty unfortunate people in this thread who seem really eager to assign a label to me that I'm not even assigning to myself so that they can insult me. I'm glad the eso community in game is absolutely nothing like it is on the forums and I hope whatever has caused you to act like this works itself out soon. I hope anyone reading this who might be new to the game understands that people in this thread don't reflect people's attitudes in game at all.

Thanks to everyone else who was nice enough to offer some potential solutions. I'll give some of them a shot.

You asked for gameplay mechanics to be changed because of your disability.

Unlike everyone else here, I have a different perspective on this: I have been in your shoes.

Let me explain. As some people may have guessed from username here, I come from Elite Dangerous. An online game that is not without its share of controversy.

A couple of years ago, AI behaviour was buffed. I mean, you thought Dark Souls was hard? Cute. The MoM over in that game is a bloody genius when it comes to AI programming.

Well, when it happened, I was feeling a little more vulnerable. I made a big mistake. I made a thread, not to unlike this one, and stated that ED was now unfair because my medicated-brain couldn't keep up with the AI, and like you, I asked for changes to be made to accommodate me and anyone else with my circumstances.

Well. My thread won't have been the deciding factor, but it would certainly be a contribution. The AI buff was rolled back, and now that game which I love so much is losing players like flies dropping, and frankly, I'm not convinced that FD really cares about it anymore.

To put it simply: People have gotten bored by the lack of challenge. The only thing left is PvP and that's really rare.

As someone who has been in your shoes, I can tell you, yes, you are playing the victim card, and I know this because I've played that card before myself.

Luckylancer · May 2019

whats adhd and add? Why you use weird abbreviations without using open form first?

SoLooney · May 2019

Easy solution. Dont play a necro

ZOS_RikardD · May 2019

Greetings,

We have had to remove or edit a number of comments for baiting, insults, or otherwise inappropriate or nonconstructive commentary.

Please remember to keep comments constructive and civil and take a moment to review our Community Rules here.

Thank you for your understanding.

Aurie · May 2019

Welcome back, ZOS

Grandesdar · May 2019

I have ADD as well but really, what does it have to do with it?

Stebarnz · May 2019

Take your Ritalin and chill, ADD isn't a disability.

Androconium · May 2019

Neoealth wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

How about you try having some self control, op.

Do you have zero will power or something? Can't you train yourself to stop senselessly bashing buttons?

That would be the "deficit of attention" part.

Couldn't YOU just train yourself not to respond to this post, with all your self control and lack of knowledge?

No. I like responding and giving my opinions. So deal with it. People with these sort of conditions can do self help courses for adults to help them overcome repetitive behaviours. So don't give me that.

What's more reasonable, changing ones own behaviours to adapt to the situation, or expecting a computer game company to change the game to adapt to people who suffer from issues like the op's?

From my perspective, with a clinical diagnosis of ADD (no hyperactivity), I expect that anyone selling something should make it available to everyone, not just 'normal' people. "No. I like responding and giving my opinions. So deal with it" - is that oppositional/defiant disorder there? Can you change your behaviour to limit that?

You might have an entirely different view if you didn't have hands. Because that's a REAL disability, not that fake ADD crap.

On cue:

Stebarnz wrote: »

Take your Ritalin and chill, ADD isn't a disability.

Thank you Doctor. However:

Taking ADD medication does not equate to "chill". Some people don't like the side-effects; others get addictions.
ADD is a disability; it's dysfunctional brain chemistry.

You ARE a doctor, aren't you?

More of the: 'I don't have it, so just get medicated so that I don't have to put any effort into dealing with you' syndrome.

People medicate their kids, because they usually don't have the resources to successfully channel ADHD behaviour into a positive outcome (for the child). My ADHD nephew was moved to a Steiner school. After that his schoolwork and behaviour improved dramatically and he used less medication. That's because the Steiner school was prepared to work with him to achieve positive outcomes.

So, yes, it is reasonable for all levels of society to be prepared for people that don't present as normal.
Whatever 'normal' is...

Stebarnz · May 2019

Androconium wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

How about you try having some self control, op.

Do you have zero will power or something? Can't you train yourself to stop senselessly bashing buttons?

That would be the "deficit of attention" part.

Couldn't YOU just train yourself not to respond to this post, with all your self control and lack of knowledge?

No. I like responding and giving my opinions. So deal with it. People with these sort of conditions can do self help courses for adults to help them overcome repetitive behaviours. So don't give me that.

What's more reasonable, changing ones own behaviours to adapt to the situation, or expecting a computer game company to change the game to adapt to people who suffer from issues like the op's?

From my perspective, with a clinical diagnosis of ADD (no hyperactivity), I expect that anyone selling something should make it available to everyone, not just 'normal' people. "No. I like responding and giving my opinions. So deal with it" - is that oppositional/defiant disorder there? Can you change your behaviour to limit that?

You might have an entirely different view if you didn't have hands. Because that's a REAL disability, not that fake ADD crap.

On cue:

Stebarnz wrote: »

Take your Ritalin and chill, ADD isn't a disability.

Thank you Doctor. However:
Taking ADD medication does not equate to "chill". Some people don't like the side-effects; others get addictions.

ADD is a disability; it's dysfunctional brain chemistry.

You ARE a doctor, aren't you?

More of the: 'I don't have it, so just get medicated so that I don't have to put any effort into dealing with you' syndrome.

People medicate their kids, because they usually don't have the resources to successfully channel ADHD behaviour into a positive outcome (for the child). My ADHD nephew was moved to a Steiner school. After that his schoolwork and behaviour improved dramatically and he used less medication. That's because the Steiner school was prepared to work with him to achieve positive outcomes.

So, yes, it is reasonable for all levels of society to be prepared for people that don't present as normal.
Whatever 'normal' is...

All of that what you said is cool man and I wish sufferers of this affliction a great life, however my professional medical advice is, don't play an MMO then moan about a mechanic which you have somehow linked to your said affliction on a forum where you are going to be shot down.

Androconium · May 2019

Stebarnz wrote: »

<snip>

All of that what you said is cool man and I wish sufferers of this affliction a great life, however my professional medical advice is, don't play an MMO then moan about a mechanic which you have somehow linked to your said affliction on a forum where you are going to be shot down.

Okey-dokey. I'll just lurch back to the closet and shut the door. You normal people don't need to see this.

WhisperLFE · May 2019

Androconium wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

How about you try having some self control, op.

Do you have zero will power or something? Can't you train yourself to stop senselessly bashing buttons?

That would be the "deficit of attention" part.

Couldn't YOU just train yourself not to respond to this post, with all your self control and lack of knowledge?

No. I like responding and giving my opinions. So deal with it. People with these sort of conditions can do self help courses for adults to help them overcome repetitive behaviours. So don't give me that.

What's more reasonable, changing ones own behaviours to adapt to the situation, or expecting a computer game company to change the game to adapt to people who suffer from issues like the op's?

From my perspective, with a clinical diagnosis of ADD (no hyperactivity), I expect that anyone selling something should make it available to everyone, not just 'normal' people. "No. I like responding and giving my opinions. So deal with it" - is that oppositional/defiant disorder there? Can you change your behaviour to limit that?

You might have an entirely different view if you didn't have hands. Because that's a REAL disability, not that fake ADD crap.

On cue:

Stebarnz wrote: »

Take your Ritalin and chill, ADD isn't a disability.

Thank you Doctor. However:
Taking ADD medication does not equate to "chill". Some people don't like the side-effects; others get addictions.

ADD is a disability; it's dysfunctional brain chemistry.

You ARE a doctor, aren't you?

More of the: 'I don't have it, so just get medicated so that I don't have to put any effort into dealing with you' syndrome.

People medicate their kids, because they usually don't have the resources to successfully channel ADHD behaviour into a positive outcome (for the child). My ADHD nephew was moved to a Steiner school. After that his schoolwork and behaviour improved dramatically and he used less medication. That's because the Steiner school was prepared to work with him to achieve positive outcomes.

So, yes, it is reasonable for all levels of society to be prepared for people that don't present as normal.
Whatever 'normal' is...

ADHD is a diagnosis and a (very real) condition, yes. But a mental health condition does not necessarily equate to a disability. The two concepts are distinct, although there's of course overlap. ADHD, by itself, is generally not considered a disabling condition (in the technical sense of the term "disability").

I agree that, "suck it up and deal with it," isn't a particularly constructive, fair, or helpful response. But in many instances, it often falls on the individual with the condition to develop appropriately effective compensatory strategies. That's just life. As the criminal mechanics of the necro abilities are a big part of the class and what ZOS has decided to do with it, I don't know what could be done on the developer's part to accommodate. I also don't know that I would say they're obligated to do so.

starkerealm · May 2019

Vietfox wrote: »

A "prevent stealing anything" choice would be nice too.

@Vietfox, in case no one's mentioned it before, "NoAccidentalStealing," also, "ThiefTools," is useful, but the former will block you from stealing unless you're in stealth, and undetected. (Though, there is a small window when you're being detected that it will allow you to steal, even though an NPC will be able to see you. Also, doesn't prevent being detected mid lock pick.) It's configurable, with a few options, but by default, it won't let you steal things at random. (Though, double tapping the interact key will override it.)

Vietfox · May 2019

starkerealm wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

A "prevent stealing anything" choice would be nice too.

@Vietfox, in case no one's mentioned it before, "NoAccidentalStealing," also, "ThiefTools," is useful, but the former will block you from stealing unless you're in stealth, and undetected. (Though, there is a small window when you're being detected that it will allow you to steal, even though an NPC will be able to see you. Also, doesn't prevent being detected mid lock pick.) It's configurable, with a few options, but by default, it won't let you steal things at random. (Though, double tapping the interact key will override it.)

@starkerealm
Thanks. Thing is that i'm currently playing in ps4, but i'll download that addon once i get a new pc.

bulbousb16_ESO · May 2019

Androconium wrote: »

[*] ADD is a disability; it's dysfunctional brain chemistry.

This is true BUT, it only applies in a fraction of ADD diagnoses. The overdiagnosis of ADD/ADHD causes great grief for those that actually do have a chemical imbalance in the brain and NEED a prescription to compensate for the missing elements.

AlnilamE · May 2019

Cerra wrote: »

Vampires and Werewolves shouldn't choose to be them simply for the power they give. It's not just another skill line, it's a huge change to your character's life. It's completely optional and it SHOULD give a bounty if you are witnessed by an innocent just like a necromancer's skills do.

I'm playing a necromancer and I'm careful with those skills. I haven't been witnessed yet in the wilds but if I am that's the risk I take.

My only idea for this would be to remove gained bounties if you can kill all witnesses before they get away. If an innocent sees you, they should run and if they get away then you get the bounty.

OK, so I never transformed in town or tried to feed on someone in sight of other NPCs, but I'd be totally cool if those did give a bounty as well.

Nyladreas · May 2019

This has got nothing to do with ADD/ADHD. Absolutely nothing.

I've had a severe ADHD since i was 12, and never had a problem.

If you're fidgeting uncontrollably that hard, that's on you honestly, you could have learned how to deal with it, how to control it, how to let go of it. I have. It took years, but yeah, I have. And Trust me my ADHD is outright F'd up.

maboleth · May 2019

What's next? Please make a crime non-punishable, because people with kleptomanic disorder cannot help themselves.

I'm surprised how many .... strange people post here, requesting all kinds of stuff from devs. Yet somehow think shrinks could help some more.

adagiogray · May 2019

Let's just call it like it is, to quote a guildie: "I want the ability to duel at wayshrines and in banks and pretty much anywhere that's inconvenient or annoying to other people with impunity."

Drej · May 2019

WhisperLFE wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

How about you try having some self control, op.

Do you have zero will power or something? Can't you train yourself to stop senselessly bashing buttons?

That would be the "deficit of attention" part.

Couldn't YOU just train yourself not to respond to this post, with all your self control and lack of knowledge?

No. I like responding and giving my opinions. So deal with it. People with these sort of conditions can do self help courses for adults to help them overcome repetitive behaviours. So don't give me that.

What's more reasonable, changing ones own behaviours to adapt to the situation, or expecting a computer game company to change the game to adapt to people who suffer from issues like the op's?

From my perspective, with a clinical diagnosis of ADD (no hyperactivity), I expect that anyone selling something should make it available to everyone, not just 'normal' people. "No. I like responding and giving my opinions. So deal with it" - is that oppositional/defiant disorder there? Can you change your behaviour to limit that?

You might have an entirely different view if you didn't have hands. Because that's a REAL disability, not that fake ADD crap.

On cue:

Stebarnz wrote: »

Take your Ritalin and chill, ADD isn't a disability.

Thank you Doctor. However:
Taking ADD medication does not equate to "chill". Some people don't like the side-effects; others get addictions.

ADD is a disability; it's dysfunctional brain chemistry.

You ARE a doctor, aren't you?

More of the: 'I don't have it, so just get medicated so that I don't have to put any effort into dealing with you' syndrome.

People medicate their kids, because they usually don't have the resources to successfully channel ADHD behaviour into a positive outcome (for the child). My ADHD nephew was moved to a Steiner school. After that his schoolwork and behaviour improved dramatically and he used less medication. That's because the Steiner school was prepared to work with him to achieve positive outcomes.

So, yes, it is reasonable for all levels of society to be prepared for people that don't present as normal.
Whatever 'normal' is...

ADHD is a diagnosis and a (very real) condition, yes. But a mental health condition does not necessarily equate to a disability. The two concepts are distinct, although there's of course overlap. ADHD, by itself, is generally not considered a disabling condition (in the technical sense of the term "disability").

I agree that, "suck it up and deal with it," isn't a particularly constructive, fair, or helpful response. But in many instances, it often falls on the individual with the condition to develop appropriately effective compensatory strategies. That's just life. As the criminal mechanics of the necro abilities are a big part of the class and what ZOS has decided to do with it, I don't know what could be done on the developer's part to accommodate. I also don't know that I would say they're obligated to do so.

I don't think they should be obligated to do so, honestly.

I have ADHD. I've never gotten the urge to just run around randomly casting spells in town. And even if I did feel like doing that, or may have accidentally fat fingered an ability and gotten a bounty, that's still my friggin' fault. I don't really understand why half this thread is trying to push ZOS to remove the criminal act stipulation on necromancer abilities when it adds a *** ton of flavor and realism to the world.

I honestly think a big part of managing a mental disability is learning to manage it and not expecting every person and every institution to accommodate your every tiny need. You can't use it as a crutch. This is an example of using it as a crutch or a guilt trip to make people get rid of a game mechanic that they personally don't like.

Just seems stupid to me.

Stebarnz · May 2019

Androconium wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

<snip>

All of that what you said is cool man and I wish sufferers of this affliction a great life, however my professional medical advice is, don't play an MMO then moan about a mechanic which you have somehow linked to your said affliction on a forum where you are going to be shot down.

Okey-dokey. I'll just lurch back to the closet and shut the door. You normal people don't need to see this.

You just assume my normality?..... j/k I'm normal.

CleymenZero · May 2019

I've never really built a bounty as easily as with a necromancer.

Setting up the character, I was curious about stam recovery with the last living dead passive so summoned the archer => Bounty => run away => go to fence to pay bounty and stolen stuff that's just taking space => go back to city => summon archer (because I try to keep it up all the time in trials just like I always keep the Warden netch up even in town because it's a good habit to make sure you don't forget) => bounty

I found it a great idea to have some abilities be criminal acts but it is getting really annoying 2 weeks into the new chapter.

Tommy_The_Gun · May 2019

Umm.... Regarding the title.. Is it just me or it can be used as an argument to literally anything ?