Why do people cry about Magicka Warden being weak/*negative adjective* and Stamden being OP?
xAk_MoRRoWiNdx
✭✭✭
So very frequently, I see "Buff Magden!" "Magden is so weak!" "Magden is non existent or lacks identity" or WHATEVER! Yet people b*tch and cry about Stamden being OP af. None of it makes sense to me at all!
Magicka Warden is well...Magicka. It has access to everything the class offers, and Stam Warden is warden but lacking a lot from the class because it's Stamina (just like every other damn class!) Shouldn't people be crying about Stamden because it inherently lacks access to everything since it's Stamina?? The whole dynamic is completely reversed for no reason. Like I don't even know how to put this into words, this whole situation doesn't make any sense.
What am I missing here? Why do people think so much is wrong with Magden but so much is wrong with Stamden?
Sort of needless to ask, per Forum rules, but please keep the comments and discussion civil, constructive, and insightful and not just a bunch of stupid arguing.
Magicka Warden is well...Magicka. It has access to everything the class offers, and Stam Warden is warden but lacking a lot from the class because it's Stamina (just like every other damn class!) Shouldn't people be crying about Stamden because it inherently lacks access to everything since it's Stamina?? The whole dynamic is completely reversed for no reason. Like I don't even know how to put this into words, this whole situation doesn't make any sense.
What am I missing here? Why do people think so much is wrong with Magden but so much is wrong with Stamden?
Sort of needless to ask, per Forum rules, but please keep the comments and discussion civil, constructive, and insightful and not just a bunch of stupid arguing.
New to forums and stuff so I 99.9 percent probably won't see your response and such, so use the at symbol at me I guess? IDK :/. This BBCode stuff is really cool!! :D.
Gamer from Alaska (907 Gamers, Alaskan Gamers Unite!).
My little rant I guess?:
Don't nerf you, don't nerf me, nerf the sorc behind the tree!.
If you need help or advice, hit me up on Xbox: H4rry Poggers :D .
Also open to talking on Discord!
Ich kann Deutsch Sprechen bei der mittleren/zwischen Kenntnissen Ebene. Hallo! :D.
CP level 1000+! Playing since 2015.
My wishlist I suppose:
My 10 characters:
Aldmeri Dominion Master-Faction!
Gamer from Alaska (907 Gamers, Alaskan Gamers Unite!).
My little rant I guess?:
Don't nerf you, don't nerf me, nerf the sorc behind the tree!.
If you need help or advice, hit me up on Xbox: H4rry Poggers :D .
Also open to talking on Discord!
Ich kann Deutsch Sprechen bei der mittleren/zwischen Kenntnissen Ebene. Hallo! :D.
CP level 1000+! Playing since 2015.
My wishlist I suppose:
- PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEEAAASSSEEE EITHER BUFF SIPHONING STRIKES OR REVERT IT BACK TO PRE MORROWIND!!.
- Bring back purge cloak. But I guess the new heal cloak is more beneficial. Hmmm....
- MAKE IMPERIAL CITY GREAT AGAIN, BRING BACK THOSE INCREDIBLE DAYS. My best experiences in ESO where in there!
- Return Stam builds to the power we held in One Tamriel. Long Live Stamina builds!
- Put Magplar and MagDK into their place. Magpsorc is a hopeless case.
- Is there any chance that we could get an Ebonheart Pact nerf? #CullingTheHerds .
My 10 characters:
- AD - xak-Morrowindx - Khajiit Stamina Nightblade. Hours: 107 days, 19 hours (2,568 hours).
- EP - Ich bin Groot - Orc Stamina Dragonknight. Hours: 2 days, 16 hours (64 hours).
- DC - Who Took My Bleach - Orc Stamina Sorcerer. Hours: 3 days, 18 hours. (90 hours).
- EP - Niada Zaennon - High Elf Magicka Nightblade. Hours: 15 days, 18 hours (378 hours).
- AD - Healsyournoobazzwithmemes - Argonian Magicka Templar. Hours: 1 day, 9 hours (33 hours)
- DC - Engulfing Traps - Dark Elf Magicka Dragonknight. Hours: 7 days, 17 hours (129 hours).
- AD - Verführung - High Elf Magicka Sorcerer. Hours: 5 days, 9 hours (129 hours)
- DC - Deadazz catch these birds - Nord Stamina Warden. Hours: 6 days, 21 hours (165 hours)
- EP - So Bendy - Wood Elf Stamina Templar. Hours: 1 day, 15 hours (39 hours)
- EP - Smash that mf Like button - Breton Magicka Warden. Hours: 20 hours, 20 minutes.
Aldmeri Dominion Master-Faction!
0
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MaxJrFTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Magden is weak in pve, stamden is strong in pve. Both are strong in pvp.
I gave you a 4 year old explanation to help you understand what's going on."I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
―Ulrich Leland, 3E 43322 -
xAk_MoRRoWiNdx✭✭✭Magden is weak in pve, stamden is strong in pve. Both are strong in pvp.
I gave you a 4 year old explanation to help you understand what's going on.
Truly insightful. I can tell you put a lot of effort into your math!New to forums and stuff so I 99.9 percent probably won't see your response and such, so use the at symbol at me I guess? IDK :/. This BBCode stuff is really cool!! :D.
Gamer from Alaska (907 Gamers, Alaskan Gamers Unite!).
My little rant I guess?:
Don't nerf you, don't nerf me, nerf the sorc behind the tree!.
If you need help or advice, hit me up on Xbox: H4rry Poggers :D .
Also open to talking on Discord!
Ich kann Deutsch Sprechen bei der mittleren/zwischen Kenntnissen Ebene. Hallo! :D.
CP level 1000+! Playing since 2015.
My wishlist I suppose:- PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEEAAASSSEEE EITHER BUFF SIPHONING STRIKES OR REVERT IT BACK TO PRE MORROWIND!!.
- Bring back purge cloak. But I guess the new heal cloak is more beneficial. Hmmm....
- MAKE IMPERIAL CITY GREAT AGAIN, BRING BACK THOSE INCREDIBLE DAYS. My best experiences in ESO where in there!
- Return Stam builds to the power we held in One Tamriel. Long Live Stamina builds!
- Put Magplar and MagDK into their place. Magpsorc is a hopeless case.
- Is there any chance that we could get an Ebonheart Pact nerf? #CullingTheHerds .
My 10 characters:- AD - xak-Morrowindx - Khajiit Stamina Nightblade. Hours: 107 days, 19 hours (2,568 hours).
- EP - Ich bin Groot - Orc Stamina Dragonknight. Hours: 2 days, 16 hours (64 hours).
- DC - Who Took My Bleach - Orc Stamina Sorcerer. Hours: 3 days, 18 hours. (90 hours).
- EP - Niada Zaennon - High Elf Magicka Nightblade. Hours: 15 days, 18 hours (378 hours).
- AD - Healsyournoobazzwithmemes - Argonian Magicka Templar. Hours: 1 day, 9 hours (33 hours)
- DC - Engulfing Traps - Dark Elf Magicka Dragonknight. Hours: 7 days, 17 hours (129 hours).
- AD - Verführung - High Elf Magicka Sorcerer. Hours: 5 days, 9 hours (129 hours)
- DC - Deadazz catch these birds - Nord Stamina Warden. Hours: 6 days, 21 hours (165 hours)
- EP - So Bendy - Wood Elf Stamina Templar. Hours: 1 day, 15 hours (39 hours)
- EP - Smash that mf Like button - Breton Magicka Warden. Hours: 20 hours, 20 minutes.
Aldmeri Dominion Master-Faction!0 -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In PvE Magden is on the low end of the dps spectrum while also offering no group utility outside master architect.3 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xAk_MoRRoWiNdx wrote: »
He is very right tho... Magdens are annoying AF in cyrodiil... Hard to kill, hit hard, very agile and sustain like mad. Nothing about "bad".5 -
ccmedaddy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stamden is arguably the most 'complete' stam class in the game. It has a class spammable, class burst heal, class ults all of which are useful to stam, access to most essential buffs via class skills and so on. No other class (maybe except stamnecro but I'm not familiar with that class yet) comes even close. Not to mention the fact that stam has access to far more weapon skills than mag in general.
This is not a valid complaint, sorry.
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Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Magden may have more class skills but this isnt only about that.
Unlike stamden with 20 weapon skills and 4 ultimates, Magden can choose only from 10 weapon skills and 2 ultimates and weapon skills are generaly much better done than class skills
And if you talk about damage, destro staff is only weapon in game which scales from magicka. So this leaves you with 5 weapon skills and one weapon ultimate.2 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭xAk_MoRRoWiNdx wrote: »
He is very right tho... Magdens are annoying AF in cyrodiil... Hard to kill, hit hard, very agile and sustain like mad. Nothing about "bad".
We hit hard in pvp? Really? I can agree with the rest but not that. Short of actually landing a crit shalk after my 3 second delay or melting a 13k health newb with permafrost, I don't have many of those hard hitting moments even when I was running 50k+ mag.
In reply to the OP, Magden is a clunky mess of a class that has to double cast flies, lost it's stun on shalks, and the spammable birds is too damn slow and has no additional bonuses for it's use. I'm sure there's more but it's late and I'm out for the night.10 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stamden has access to:
every relevant buff and debuff
Hard CCs, and snares applied with dots
Execute
Significant HoTs not tied to weapons
Pretty much everything magden is lacking3 -
Elusiin✭✭✭✭✭Magicka necromancer is actually really good... Just some of the bugs (despawning corpses, ground target based aoes disabled in combat, blastbones not targetting the enemy you heavy attack, and a few others) make it hit or miss. I don't think it needs buffed or changed significantly. I just feel the Goliath ultimate is a little strong (the bash version that is) and the bugs need fixed.0 -
xAk_MoRRoWiNdx✭✭✭Magden may have more class skills but this isnt only about that.
Unlike stamden with 20 weapon skills and 4 ultimates, Magden can choose only from 10 weapon skills and 2 ultimates and weapon skills are generaly much better done than class skills
And if you talk about damage, destro staff is only weapon in game which scales from magicka. So this leaves you with 5 weapon skills and one weapon ultimate.
Doesn't Dawnbreaker still scale off of Magicka but do Physical damage however...?New to forums and stuff so I 99.9 percent probably won't see your response and such, so use the at symbol at me I guess? IDK :/. This BBCode stuff is really cool!! :D.
Gamer from Alaska (907 Gamers, Alaskan Gamers Unite!).
My little rant I guess?:
Don't nerf you, don't nerf me, nerf the sorc behind the tree!.
If you need help or advice, hit me up on Xbox: H4rry Poggers :D .
Also open to talking on Discord!
Ich kann Deutsch Sprechen bei der mittleren/zwischen Kenntnissen Ebene. Hallo! :D.
CP level 1000+! Playing since 2015.
My wishlist I suppose:- PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEEAAASSSEEE EITHER BUFF SIPHONING STRIKES OR REVERT IT BACK TO PRE MORROWIND!!.
- Bring back purge cloak. But I guess the new heal cloak is more beneficial. Hmmm....
- MAKE IMPERIAL CITY GREAT AGAIN, BRING BACK THOSE INCREDIBLE DAYS. My best experiences in ESO where in there!
- Return Stam builds to the power we held in One Tamriel. Long Live Stamina builds!
- Put Magplar and MagDK into their place. Magpsorc is a hopeless case.
- Is there any chance that we could get an Ebonheart Pact nerf? #CullingTheHerds .
My 10 characters:- AD - xak-Morrowindx - Khajiit Stamina Nightblade. Hours: 107 days, 19 hours (2,568 hours).
- EP - Ich bin Groot - Orc Stamina Dragonknight. Hours: 2 days, 16 hours (64 hours).
- DC - Who Took My Bleach - Orc Stamina Sorcerer. Hours: 3 days, 18 hours. (90 hours).
- EP - Niada Zaennon - High Elf Magicka Nightblade. Hours: 15 days, 18 hours (378 hours).
- AD - Healsyournoobazzwithmemes - Argonian Magicka Templar. Hours: 1 day, 9 hours (33 hours)
- DC - Engulfing Traps - Dark Elf Magicka Dragonknight. Hours: 7 days, 17 hours (129 hours).
- AD - Verführung - High Elf Magicka Sorcerer. Hours: 5 days, 9 hours (129 hours)
- DC - Deadazz catch these birds - Nord Stamina Warden. Hours: 6 days, 21 hours (165 hours)
- EP - So Bendy - Wood Elf Stamina Templar. Hours: 1 day, 15 hours (39 hours)
- EP - Smash that mf Like button - Breton Magicka Warden. Hours: 20 hours, 20 minutes.
Aldmeri Dominion Master-Faction!0 -
xAk_MoRRoWiNdx✭✭✭Stamden is arguably the most 'complete' stam class in the game. It has a class spammable, class burst heal, class ults all of which are useful to stam, access to most essential buffs via class skills and so on. No other class (maybe except stamnecro but I'm not familiar with that class yet) comes even close. Not to mention the fact that stam has access to far more weapon skills than mag in general.
This is not a valid complaint, sorry.xAk_MoRRoWiNdx wrote: »
He is very right tho... Magdens are annoying AF in cyrodiil... Hard to kill, hit hard, very agile and sustain like mad. Nothing about "bad".
We hit hard in pvp? Really? I can agree with the rest but not that. Short of actually landing a crit shalk after my 3 second delay or melting a 13k health newb with permafrost, I don't have many of those hard hitting moments even when I was running 50k+ mag.
In reply to the OP, Magden is a clunky mess of a class that has to double cast flies, lost it's stun on shalks, and the spammable birds is too damn slow and has no additional bonuses for it's use. I'm sure there's more but it's late and I'm out for the night.Waffennacht wrote: »Stamden has access to:
every relevant buff and debuff
Hard CCs, and snares applied with dots
Execute
Significant HoTs not tied to weapons
Pretty much everything magden is lacking
These are the most useful comments so far and not "they're weak in PvE, that's why". This paints a bit more of a picture, thanks guys.New to forums and stuff so I 99.9 percent probably won't see your response and such, so use the at symbol at me I guess? IDK :/. This BBCode stuff is really cool!! :D.
Gamer from Alaska (907 Gamers, Alaskan Gamers Unite!).
My little rant I guess?:
Don't nerf you, don't nerf me, nerf the sorc behind the tree!.
If you need help or advice, hit me up on Xbox: H4rry Poggers :D .
Also open to talking on Discord!
Ich kann Deutsch Sprechen bei der mittleren/zwischen Kenntnissen Ebene. Hallo! :D.
CP level 1000+! Playing since 2015.
My wishlist I suppose:- PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEEAAASSSEEE EITHER BUFF SIPHONING STRIKES OR REVERT IT BACK TO PRE MORROWIND!!.
- Bring back purge cloak. But I guess the new heal cloak is more beneficial. Hmmm....
- MAKE IMPERIAL CITY GREAT AGAIN, BRING BACK THOSE INCREDIBLE DAYS. My best experiences in ESO where in there!
- Return Stam builds to the power we held in One Tamriel. Long Live Stamina builds!
- Put Magplar and MagDK into their place. Magpsorc is a hopeless case.
- Is there any chance that we could get an Ebonheart Pact nerf? #CullingTheHerds .
My 10 characters:- AD - xak-Morrowindx - Khajiit Stamina Nightblade. Hours: 107 days, 19 hours (2,568 hours).
- EP - Ich bin Groot - Orc Stamina Dragonknight. Hours: 2 days, 16 hours (64 hours).
- DC - Who Took My Bleach - Orc Stamina Sorcerer. Hours: 3 days, 18 hours. (90 hours).
- EP - Niada Zaennon - High Elf Magicka Nightblade. Hours: 15 days, 18 hours (378 hours).
- AD - Healsyournoobazzwithmemes - Argonian Magicka Templar. Hours: 1 day, 9 hours (33 hours)
- DC - Engulfing Traps - Dark Elf Magicka Dragonknight. Hours: 7 days, 17 hours (129 hours).
- AD - Verführung - High Elf Magicka Sorcerer. Hours: 5 days, 9 hours (129 hours)
- DC - Deadazz catch these birds - Nord Stamina Warden. Hours: 6 days, 21 hours (165 hours)
- EP - So Bendy - Wood Elf Stamina Templar. Hours: 1 day, 15 hours (39 hours)
- EP - Smash that mf Like button - Breton Magicka Warden. Hours: 20 hours, 20 minutes.
Aldmeri Dominion Master-Faction!3 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xAk_MoRRoWiNdx wrote: »
He is very right tho... Magdens are annoying AF in cyrodiil... Hard to kill, hit hard, very agile and sustain like mad. Nothing about "bad".
We hit hard in pvp? Really? I can agree with the rest but not that. Short of actually landing a crit shalk after my 3 second delay or melting a 13k health newb with permafrost, I don't have many of those hard hitting moments even when I was running 50k+ mag.
In reply to the OP, Magden is a clunky mess of a class that has to double cast flies, lost it's stun on shalks, and the spammable birds is too damn slow and has no additional bonuses for it's use. I'm sure there's more but it's late and I'm out for the night.
I was specifically thinking about the damn shalk. Hehe it lands in your face and rips it open... And even the divers, but people don't seem to use these as much.Edited by ZonasArch on May 25, 2019 4:35AM0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭No one presents reasonable argument against OPs claim
Each rebuttal can be summed up as this: “Magden is weak and you’re stupid.”
Seems legit.Power Wealth And Influence.3 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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This, stamina has more weapon skills in their bar even if you just count DW and 2H and bow, add caltrops.Magden may have more class skills but this isnt only about that.
Unlike stamden with 20 weapon skills and 4 ultimates, Magden can choose only from 10 weapon skills and 2 ultimates and weapon skills are generaly much better done than class skills
And if you talk about damage, destro staff is only weapon in game which scales from magicka. So this leaves you with 5 weapon skills and one weapon ultimate.
Warden end up with few good damage skills but they have stamina morphs while magic only has destro staff.
PvE is all about DoT, in PvP you want burst.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
likecats✭✭✭✭✭Magdens are way too prevalent in BGs to be categorized as a weak PVP class. Especially when you consider they don't even have a class execute.
I guess it could use buffs in the PVE area. Basically increase a couple of DOT abilities, or on abilities that don't fit well with PVP meta builds due to mechanics.
Stamden are good all around.Edited by likecats on May 25, 2019 9:05AM1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Warden is a utility class with strong burst damage potential.
This means that Stamden has great utility compared to other stam builds, burst damage for PVP, and access to all the stamina weapons/skills that make other stam builds good for PVE DPS.
MagDen has good utility that fills in some of the gaps of other Mag builds, burst damage for PVP, and has the same weapons as any other Mag build. MagDen doesn't have a lot of class skills that help them do sustained PVE-style damage.
Essentially, Warden is a Jack-of-all-trades. StamDen's utility and burst damage synergizes really well with the toolkit from the stamina weapons to make StamDen powerful in PVE and especially strong in PVP. MagDen has to fit into the niche between Warden and Dragonknight, and while it does that well, it's focus on utility rather than DOTs mean it isnt really able to leverage the magicka weapons for PVE DPS better than the other Magicka classes.1 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Stamden is arguably the most 'complete' stam class in the game. It has a class spammable, class burst heal, class ults all of which are useful to stam, access to most essential buffs via class skills and so on. No other class (maybe except stamnecro but I'm not familiar with that class yet) comes even close. Not to mention the fact that stam has access to far more weapon skills than mag in general.
This is not a valid complaint, sorry.
Stamcro feels a lot like stamden, except Blastbones is much less reliable than shalks. Venom Skull is basically birds. Stamcro is basically packed with every debuff you could ask for, but I suspect stamcro pvp will rely heavily on weapon skills, especially 2H.1 -
khajiitNPC✭✭✭✭✭Magicka Warden is pretty strong PvP, it definitely is weaker on the PvE side, but not that it can’t be competitive in all content, depends on the guild more than anything if we’re talking about trials.
But anyone saying they aren’t strong PvP aren’t lining up their burst correctly. Magicka Warden is one of the more fun classes to play.0 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭khajiitNPC wrote: »Magicka Warden is pretty strong PvP, it definitely is weaker on the PvE side, but not that it can’t be competitive in all content, depends on the guild more than anything if we’re talking about trials.
But anyone saying they aren’t strong PvP aren’t lining up their burst correctly. Magicka Warden is one of the more fun classes to play.
That's the thing in pvp. If your fighting anyone with any pvp experience at all they can easily counter our 3 second delay. While your counting 1 Mississippi, 2 Missis...they're hammering your ass. Then they just walk right through you or roll to the side and your back to square one. Then your back to relying on the one trick pony permafrost to put you back in the fight. The other crutch is spamming clench or reach but to make that work you'd best have a mater staff or you'll be outta juice so fast it isn't funny. Then again not everyone has a master staff so your back to spamming force pulse or the slow ass birds for most. Is it a tough class in pvp, sure I can hang in there pretty good in most fights. Is it fun? it's decent. I actually enjoy the healing the most. I just wish it wasn't so clunky while every other class I've played feels smooth. Having to double cast my dot just to get average damage, delayed and slow attacks, and having to rely on my ultimate to save the day is pretty poor. I'm a druid player in all games so even though for years I haven't been real happy with the class, it's really all I have so I struggle on and fight the good fight.
edit: Oh and I'm not even going to mention the double barred nerfed ultimate bear that get's lost in space and is ridiculously unreliable in pve ans useless in Cyrodiil.Edited by Zardayne on May 25, 2019 5:19PM1 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭xAk_MoRRoWiNdx wrote: »Stamden is arguably the most 'complete' stam class in the game. It has a class spammable, class burst heal, class ults all of which are useful to stam, access to most essential buffs via class skills and so on. No other class (maybe except stamnecro but I'm not familiar with that class yet) comes even close. Not to mention the fact that stam has access to far more weapon skills than mag in general.
This is not a valid complaint, sorry.xAk_MoRRoWiNdx wrote: »
He is very right tho... Magdens are annoying AF in cyrodiil... Hard to kill, hit hard, very agile and sustain like mad. Nothing about "bad".
We hit hard in pvp? Really? I can agree with the rest but not that. Short of actually landing a crit shalk after my 3 second delay or melting a 13k health newb with permafrost, I don't have many of those hard hitting moments even when I was running 50k+ mag.
In reply to the OP, Magden is a clunky mess of a class that has to double cast flies, lost it's stun on shalks, and the spammable birds is too damn slow and has no additional bonuses for it's use. I'm sure there's more but it's late and I'm out for the night.Waffennacht wrote: »Stamden has access to:
every relevant buff and debuff
Hard CCs, and snares applied with dots
Execute
Significant HoTs not tied to weapons
Pretty much everything magden is lacking
These are the most useful comments so far and not "they're weak in PvE, that's why". This paints a bit more of a picture, thanks guys.
They mathematically deal less DPS than other classes in PvE, so they are weak in PvE.Edited by hmsdragonfly on May 26, 2019 11:53AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!4 -
Czekoludek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well they do almost the same dps as magblades in PvE right now (but still the lowest part of dps spectrum and because of killing magblades, not by buffing magdens) and require bear ulti to do so. In pvp, at least in BGs they are fairly strong.0 -
omegatay_ESO✭✭✭✭The magdens may be weak pve wise but I certainty have not noticed. I mow, literally through mobs and rarely take enough damage to care about. I love the class personally.1 -
Ahtu✭✭✭✭Mag and Stam Warden are the same. People are not using mag right if they are finding them weak.1
