Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Hopefully the racial passives will be balanced next update.
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Grianasteri✭✭✭✭✭
✭For Stam Nords are still garbage DPS, and it's Orc or nothing. This isn't balanced at all, and it's been this way since the previous PTS cycle and nothing was done about it.
Orc or nothing if you are a min/maxer or high end pvp, for everyone else (thats most of us), the differences seem to just be a few percent here and there. Pick a race/class and have fun
0 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
There are no woodelves.
Without stealth and a meaningful buff to archery that race does not exist at all.
You detect any enemies yet?
I haven’t detected any in pve or pvp.
I personally don't care about stealth or detection, i care about penetration and speed.
So useless passive is still useless. Got it. Thanks for agreeing.
Not as useless as the argonian swimming speed though.
Thanks for continuing to agree with me! You find swim speed useless? How interesting. Tell me more.
The only reason why people don’t ask for change is because you can’t trust that they won’t make it worse.Edited by max_only on May 24, 2019 11:26PM#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom3 -
Vietfox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
There are no woodelves.
Without stealth and a meaningful buff to archery that race does not exist at all.
You detect any enemies yet?
I haven’t detected any in pve or pvp.
I personally don't care about stealth or detection, i care about penetration and speed.
So useless passive is still useless. Got it. Thanks for agreeing.
Not as useless as the argonian swimming speed though.
Thanks for continuing to agree with me! You find swim speed useless? How interesting. Tell me more.
The only reason why people don’t ask for change is because you can’t trust that they won’t make it worse.
You don't get it, what i meant was that the bosmer racial passive changes were a nice trade off, while argonians got simply nerfed.0 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
There are no woodelves.
Without stealth and a meaningful buff to archery that race does not exist at all.
You detect any enemies yet?
I haven’t detected any in pve or pvp.
I personally don't care about stealth or detection, i care about penetration and speed.
So useless passive is still useless. Got it. Thanks for agreeing.
Not as useless as the argonian swimming speed though.
Thanks for continuing to agree with me! You find swim speed useless? How interesting. Tell me more.
The only reason why people don’t ask for change is because you can’t trust that they won’t make it worse.
You don't get it, what i meant was that the bosmer racial passive changes were a nice trade off, while argonians got simply nerfed.
What trade-off? Bosmer lost what made them Bosmer. The Argonian swimming bonus was present in other games, and was present before the racial update in ESO. The Argonians got nerfed by losing one of their lore-based resistances, and by getting a meaningless bonus to healing while losing a bonus to healing received completely; the swim thing was part of their original ESO passives, and actually in line with what had come before. The swimming thing is actually a bad comparison -- it's most similar to the Bosmer fall damage or Khajiit pickpocket bonus in terms of where it is in the passive tree.
The stealth detection garbage doesn't have any precedent whatsoever. In every game since Daggerfall Bosmer have been stealthy archers. Now, suddenly, they are not. This is a bigger issue because it cuts to the core of the race's entire identity. It is like turning Altmer into sword-swinging barbarian warriors who negate magic. It is like turning Orcs into waifish pixies with butterfly wings who toss fairy dust on people to give them happy dreams.Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.7 -
Vietfox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
There are no woodelves.
Without stealth and a meaningful buff to archery that race does not exist at all.
You detect any enemies yet?
I haven’t detected any in pve or pvp.
I personally don't care about stealth or detection, i care about penetration and speed.
So useless passive is still useless. Got it. Thanks for agreeing.
Not as useless as the argonian swimming speed though.
Thanks for continuing to agree with me! You find swim speed useless? How interesting. Tell me more.
The only reason why people don’t ask for change is because you can’t trust that they won’t make it worse.
You don't get it, what i meant was that the bosmer racial passive changes were a nice trade off, while argonians got simply nerfed.
What trade-off? Bosmer lost what made them Bosmer. The Argonian swimming bonus was present in other games, and was present before the racial update in ESO. The Argonians got nerfed by losing one of their lore-based resistances, and by getting a meaningless bonus to healing while losing a bonus to healing received completely; the swim thing was part of their original ESO passives, and actually in line with what had come before. The swimming thing is actually a bad comparison -- it's most similar to the Bosmer fall damage or Khajiit pickpocket bonus in terms of where it is in the passive tree.
The stealth detection garbage doesn't have any precedent whatsoever. In every game since Daggerfall Bosmer have been stealthy archers. Now, suddenly, they are not. This is a bigger issue because it cuts to the core of the race's entire identity. It is like turning Altmer into sword-swinging barbarian warriors who negate magic. It is like turning Orcs into waifish pixies with butterfly wings who toss fairy dust on people to give them happy dreams.
Again, i'm not talking about lore, i'm talking about useful stuff for pvp. That's it.0 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
There are no woodelves.
Without stealth and a meaningful buff to archery that race does not exist at all.
You detect any enemies yet?
I haven’t detected any in pve or pvp.
I personally don't care about stealth or detection, i care about penetration and speed.
So useless passive is still useless. Got it. Thanks for agreeing.
Not as useless as the argonian swimming speed though.
Thanks for continuing to agree with me! You find swim speed useless? How interesting. Tell me more.
The only reason why people don’t ask for change is because you can’t trust that they won’t make it worse.
You don't get it, what i meant was that the bosmer racial passive changes were a nice trade off, while argonians got simply nerfed.
What trade-off? Bosmer lost what made them Bosmer. The Argonian swimming bonus was present in other games, and was present before the racial update in ESO. The Argonians got nerfed by losing one of their lore-based resistances, and by getting a meaningless bonus to healing while losing a bonus to healing received completely; the swim thing was part of their original ESO passives, and actually in line with what had come before. The swimming thing is actually a bad comparison -- it's most similar to the Bosmer fall damage or Khajiit pickpocket bonus in terms of where it is in the passive tree.
The stealth detection garbage doesn't have any precedent whatsoever. In every game since Daggerfall Bosmer have been stealthy archers. Now, suddenly, they are not. This is a bigger issue because it cuts to the core of the race's entire identity. It is like turning Altmer into sword-swinging barbarian warriors who negate magic. It is like turning Orcs into waifish pixies with butterfly wings who toss fairy dust on people to give them happy dreams.
Again, i'm not talking about lore, i'm talking about useful stuff for pvp. That's it.
Again, you detect any enemies yet?
#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom4 -
Vietfox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
There are no woodelves.
Without stealth and a meaningful buff to archery that race does not exist at all.
You detect any enemies yet?
I haven’t detected any in pve or pvp.
I personally don't care about stealth or detection, i care about penetration and speed.
So useless passive is still useless. Got it. Thanks for agreeing.
Not as useless as the argonian swimming speed though.
Thanks for continuing to agree with me! You find swim speed useless? How interesting. Tell me more.
The only reason why people don’t ask for change is because you can’t trust that they won’t make it worse.
You don't get it, what i meant was that the bosmer racial passive changes were a nice trade off, while argonians got simply nerfed.
What trade-off? Bosmer lost what made them Bosmer. The Argonian swimming bonus was present in other games, and was present before the racial update in ESO. The Argonians got nerfed by losing one of their lore-based resistances, and by getting a meaningless bonus to healing while losing a bonus to healing received completely; the swim thing was part of their original ESO passives, and actually in line with what had come before. The swimming thing is actually a bad comparison -- it's most similar to the Bosmer fall damage or Khajiit pickpocket bonus in terms of where it is in the passive tree.
The stealth detection garbage doesn't have any precedent whatsoever. In every game since Daggerfall Bosmer have been stealthy archers. Now, suddenly, they are not. This is a bigger issue because it cuts to the core of the race's entire identity. It is like turning Altmer into sword-swinging barbarian warriors who negate magic. It is like turning Orcs into waifish pixies with butterfly wings who toss fairy dust on people to give them happy dreams.
Again, i'm not talking about lore, i'm talking about useful stuff for pvp. That's it.
Again, you detect any enemies yet?
Yes0 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭I love how you presented math and everything for this, OP. Well done. 100% convinced me.1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I love how you presented math and everything for this, OP. Well done. 100% convinced me.
I'm not wasting my time producing numbers for you when what I'm discussing is common knowledge. Do people need to calculate the acceleration of a falling solid in a vacuum in order to tell you that gravitational acceleration is 9.8 m/s^2?2 -
Azyle1✭✭✭✭✭As others have said, there will always be a BiS. Do I think some races could use some more love? Sure. I'd love to see the Khajiit get a 3-4% increase on Crit Damage as to make it to where they actually it the hardest with crits.0 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
There are no woodelves.
Without stealth and a meaningful buff to archery that race does not exist at all.
You detect any enemies yet?
I haven’t detected any in pve or pvp.
I personally don't care about stealth or detection, i care about penetration and speed.
So useless passive is still useless. Got it. Thanks for agreeing.
Not as useless as the argonian swimming speed though.
Thanks for continuing to agree with me! You find swim speed useless? How interesting. Tell me more.
The only reason why people don’t ask for change is because you can’t trust that they won’t make it worse.
You don't get it, what i meant was that the bosmer racial passive changes were a nice trade off, while argonians got simply nerfed.
What trade-off? Bosmer lost what made them Bosmer. The Argonian swimming bonus was present in other games, and was present before the racial update in ESO. The Argonians got nerfed by losing one of their lore-based resistances, and by getting a meaningless bonus to healing while losing a bonus to healing received completely; the swim thing was part of their original ESO passives, and actually in line with what had come before. The swimming thing is actually a bad comparison -- it's most similar to the Bosmer fall damage or Khajiit pickpocket bonus in terms of where it is in the passive tree.
The stealth detection garbage doesn't have any precedent whatsoever. In every game since Daggerfall Bosmer have been stealthy archers. Now, suddenly, they are not. This is a bigger issue because it cuts to the core of the race's entire identity. It is like turning Altmer into sword-swinging barbarian warriors who negate magic. It is like turning Orcs into waifish pixies with butterfly wings who toss fairy dust on people to give them happy dreams.
Again, i'm not talking about lore, i'm talking about useful stuff for pvp. That's it.
Again, you detect any enemies yet?
Yes
Have you done any testing on that passive at all? It's buggy and barely beneficial. When you are planning on being stealthy yourself, it's actually a detriment to have. Are you sure you are detecting better at all or are you just saying that out of defiance? What I haven't tested yet is if it actually gets added onto effects like your detecting potion or mage light (which I doubt it does). If it doesn't, then the detection is really completely useless and should make room for a passive that would actually make a difference to gameplay and choice in a meaningful way.
Even if we ignore that ZOS butchered the lore in their attempt at making Bosmer unique and diverse, the passive is still not nearly as beneficial as it should be to earn its spot as a racial bonus. Its impact is just too low, and that's even true if we only look at pvp and ignore that it has no uses in pve whatsoever (which is also unlike any other racial passive).This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.6 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
There are no woodelves.
Without stealth and a meaningful buff to archery that race does not exist at all.
You detect any enemies yet?
I haven’t detected any in pve or pvp.
I personally don't care about stealth or detection, i care about penetration and speed.
So useless passive is still useless. Got it. Thanks for agreeing.
Not as useless as the argonian swimming speed though.
Thanks for continuing to agree with me! You find swim speed useless? How interesting. Tell me more.
The only reason why people don’t ask for change is because you can’t trust that they won’t make it worse.
You don't get it, what i meant was that the bosmer racial passive changes were a nice trade off, while argonians got simply nerfed.
What trade-off? Bosmer lost what made them Bosmer. The Argonian swimming bonus was present in other games, and was present before the racial update in ESO. The Argonians got nerfed by losing one of their lore-based resistances, and by getting a meaningless bonus to healing while losing a bonus to healing received completely; the swim thing was part of their original ESO passives, and actually in line with what had come before. The swimming thing is actually a bad comparison -- it's most similar to the Bosmer fall damage or Khajiit pickpocket bonus in terms of where it is in the passive tree.
The stealth detection garbage doesn't have any precedent whatsoever. In every game since Daggerfall Bosmer have been stealthy archers. Now, suddenly, they are not. This is a bigger issue because it cuts to the core of the race's entire identity. It is like turning Altmer into sword-swinging barbarian warriors who negate magic. It is like turning Orcs into waifish pixies with butterfly wings who toss fairy dust on people to give them happy dreams.
Again, i'm not talking about lore, i'm talking about useful stuff for pvp. That's it.
Again, you detect any enemies yet?
Yes
Let me be more specific. Have you detected enemies with that passive and only that passive. No.
There’s a proverb about this isn’t there....
#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom4 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is a great post about the desirability (or lack of) of Stealth Detection. And we told them countless times before it ever went live that it was an awful change, but they didn't want to hear that.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5795545/#Comment_57955454 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pretty sure Zos is saying no to a rebalance of racial passives right after they they rebalanced them. In fact I think they actually said that a couple months ago.
Overall the passive are the best they have been.
For magicka yes, but it's worse for Stam. We went from using Khajiit if you can sustain, and Redguard if you can to Orc always.
Orcs need to be brought down a little, and Nords need to be brought up when it comes to damage.
It is well balanced across the board. It seems more that you just want something different with a specific race.
Regardless, Zos has said they are not revisiting race passives anytime soon.0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I love how you presented math and everything for this, OP. Well done. 100% convinced me.
I'm not wasting my time producing numbers for you when what I'm discussing is common knowledge. Do people need to calculate the acceleration of a falling solid in a vacuum in order to tell you that gravitational acceleration is 9.8 m/s^2?
Logical fallacies, the thread...
Bye.1 -
ShadowDisciple✭✭✭✭ShadowDisciple wrote: »For Stam Nords are still garbage DPS, and it's Orc or nothing. This isn't balanced at all, and it's been this way since the previous PTS cycle and nothing was done about it.
Garbage dps.??? Racial bonus account for 5% of dps... And in pvp skill will outweigh ypur precious racial any day of the week. U just cry for the sake of crying. Freaking kids get more and more spoiled by the day
Yes, I'm spoiled for pointing out poor racial balancing. Being observant is truly a byproduct of being privileged indeed.
If u were actually observant you would observe how little racials matter, and would observe and comment on other things that are actually improperly implemented in game.0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZoS has been pretty clear on the matter. They don't plan to change racials anytime soon as they stated they are happy with them.0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »ZoS has been pretty clear on the matter. They don't plan to change racials anytime soon as they stated they are happy with them.
Can you link the quote?2 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem with the racials is that there is no catch up mechanisms. If another race has +2000 of a stat and yours does not, there is no way to bridge that difference.
This is something the stand alone ES games did better than ESO. For example, in skyrim Bosmers had an advantage in sneak and bows. But at level 100 it did not matter what the race was because all races could get to the same max level.
If they could implement a mechanic like that in ESO it would level up the playing field. Then it would not matter if a race had plus weapon damage, or stamina regen because all races could get it.
2