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WHOSE IDEA was it to give Stamblades a Class DoT(the only thing they lacked)?
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Colecovision wrote: »
But this dad isn't angry about one of his kids having fun, he's concerned that some of his other kids don't. But what does the entertained kid care about his brethren?Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on May 24, 2019 8:46AM0 -
Colecovision✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »
But this dad isn't angry about one of his kids having fun, he's concerned that some of his other kids don't. But what does the entertained kid care about his brethren?
No he is not! The post I quoted wasn't about balance. Not even a little bit. It only attacked the idea of the existence of a stam class not having to depend on weapon skills. And it in no way implies that the problem is that sorc needs a spamable or that templar needs whatever. It's EXACLY like the dad that just wants for fun to not happen no matter what.
Because just like teens dancing is evil, a stam class can't have a full class kit. Only mag. And no sex before marriage and GET...OFF...MY...LAWN!!!!6 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Colecovision wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »
But this dad isn't angry about one of his kids having fun, he's concerned that some of his other kids don't. But what does the entertained kid care about his brethren?
No he is not! The post I quoted wasn't about balance. Not even a little bit. It only attacked the idea of the existence of a stam class not having to depend on weapon skills. And it in no way implies that the problem is that sorc needs a spamable or that templar needs whatever. It's EXACLY like the dad that just wants for fun to not happen no matter what.
Because just like teens dancing is evil, a stam class can't have a full class kit. Only mag. And no sex before marriage and GET...OFF...MY...LAWN!!!!
Point still stands: the 1 stam class with a mostly full kit get's what was lacking while the other classes got the shaft in the recent "class skill" patch. You can fade that out if you simply want to be triggered and fire up the rage mode - or you can grasp that idea and give some thought into it.
Do you really think there would be half as much complains about stamblades if the other stam classes had something close to a complete toolkit too? That's the underlying issue.0 -
oddbasket✭✭✭✭✭
✭If only we can slot all those skills and self buff passives, stamblade feels like they have to give up the most when choosing skills just because there's more good skills to choose, but they still have the same number of slots.2 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »
But this dad isn't angry about one of his kids having fun, he's concerned that some of his other kids don't. But what does the entertained kid care about his brethren?
No he is not! The post I quoted wasn't about balance. Not even a little bit. It only attacked the idea of the existence of a stam class not having to depend on weapon skills. And it in no way implies that the problem is that sorc needs a spamable or that templar needs whatever. It's EXACLY like the dad that just wants for fun to not happen no matter what.
Because just like teens dancing is evil, a stam class can't have a full class kit. Only mag. And no sex before marriage and GET...OFF...MY...LAWN!!!!
Point still stands: the 1 stam class with a mostly full kit get's what was lacking while the other classes got the shaft in the recent "class skill" patch. You can fade that out if you simply want to be triggered and fire up the rage mode - or you can grasp that idea and give some thought into it.
Do you really think there would be half as much complains about stamblades if the other stam classes had something close to a complete toolkit too? That's the underlying issue.
I think you've missed @Colecovision 's point again. "...if the other stam classes had something close..." - but OP doesn't suggest to give other classes better kit. He's raging about NBs getting something instead. That's the issue for him, not his own class lacking spammable/execute/whatever. He could've created "stamsorc needs spammable" or "mDK needs execute" thread. Instead he decided to rage about NB getting a DoT, arguing that the class "didn't deserve it". Go figure.2 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭they had weapondots which are pretty good, so now they have a class one, seems fair to me
Edited by SaintSubwayy on May 24, 2019 9:54AMPC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »
But this dad isn't angry about one of his kids having fun, he's concerned that some of his other kids don't. But what does the entertained kid care about his brethren?
No he is not! The post I quoted wasn't about balance. Not even a little bit. It only attacked the idea of the existence of a stam class not having to depend on weapon skills. And it in no way implies that the problem is that sorc needs a spamable or that templar needs whatever. It's EXACLY like the dad that just wants for fun to not happen no matter what.
Because just like teens dancing is evil, a stam class can't have a full class kit. Only mag. And no sex before marriage and GET...OFF...MY...LAWN!!!!
Point still stands: the 1 stam class with a mostly full kit get's what was lacking while the other classes got the shaft in the recent "class skill" patch. You can fade that out if you simply want to be triggered and fire up the rage mode - or you can grasp that idea and give some thought into it.
Do you really think there would be half as much complains about stamblades if the other stam classes had something close to a complete toolkit too? That's the underlying issue.
I think you've missed @Colecovision 's point again. "...if the other stam classes had something close..." - but OP doesn't suggest to give other classes better kit. He's raging about NBs getting something instead. That's the issue for him, not his own class lacking spammable/execute/whatever. He could've created "stamsorc needs spammable" or "mDK needs execute" thread. Instead he decided to rage about NB getting a DoT, arguing that the class "didn't deserve it". Go figure.
If you can't make that jump on your own - and yes, I assume that OP rages because NBs kit is so far ahead of other stam classes - then I don't know what to tell you. If other classes had a similar kit OP would have no foundation to complain.
BTW there are literally dozends of "give stam X a spam/ burst/ Y/Z" - especially before and during the patch. See how that turned out. After being ignored so many times people stop campaigning for a buff to class 1, 2 and 3 and instead complain about class 4. No mindblowing involved.
E: sure, you can go ahead and complain about OP complaining - but that doesn't touch the real issue at hand.Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on May 24, 2019 9:58AM0 -
pknecron✭✭✭You put Ambush in your list. You do know they took away most of it's utility, right? It no longer stuns, and instead of +20% damage to any next attack, it has +40% damage to LA only.3 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »
But this dad isn't angry about one of his kids having fun, he's concerned that some of his other kids don't. But what does the entertained kid care about his brethren?
No he is not! The post I quoted wasn't about balance. Not even a little bit. It only attacked the idea of the existence of a stam class not having to depend on weapon skills. And it in no way implies that the problem is that sorc needs a spamable or that templar needs whatever. It's EXACLY like the dad that just wants for fun to not happen no matter what.
Because just like teens dancing is evil, a stam class can't have a full class kit. Only mag. And no sex before marriage and GET...OFF...MY...LAWN!!!!
Point still stands: the 1 stam class with a mostly full kit get's what was lacking while the other classes got the shaft in the recent "class skill" patch. You can fade that out if you simply want to be triggered and fire up the rage mode - or you can grasp that idea and give some thought into it.
Do you really think there would be half as much complains about stamblades if the other stam classes had something close to a complete toolkit too? That's the underlying issue.
I think you've missed @Colecovision 's point again. "...if the other stam classes had something close..." - but OP doesn't suggest to give other classes better kit. He's raging about NBs getting something instead. That's the issue for him, not his own class lacking spammable/execute/whatever. He could've created "stamsorc needs spammable" or "mDK needs execute" thread. Instead he decided to rage about NB getting a DoT, arguing that the class "didn't deserve it". Go figure.
If you can't make that jump on your own - and yes, I assume that OP rages because NBs kit is so far ahead of other stam classes - then I don't know what to tell you. If other classes had a similar kit OP would have no foundation to complain.
BTW there are literally dozends of "give stam X a spam/ burst/ Y/Z" - especially before and during the patch. See how that turned out. After being ignored so many times people stop campaigning for a buff to class 1, 2 and 3 and instead complain about class 4. No mindblowing involved.
E: sure, you can go ahead and complain about OP complaining - but that doesn't touch the real issue at hand.
There's no jump, that's the thing. There's a world of difference between "look, this class got a DoT, we need it too" and the plain "look, this class got a DoT, don't give them that DoT, they don't deserve it". Some want all kids to have toys; some want none of them to have any. Yes, there are plenty of buff threads, but OP could create another one, this time with more leverage - since now he has NBs new DoT to back his argument up, it's now easier for him to justify giving missing tools to other classes. And in the end whole this thread is rendered meaningless - OP complains against buffs, I complain about him, but none of us switches to the topic of buffing other classes too. And to touch the real issue... right, we need a buff thread instead. Persistence versus "aaaw, take away that kid's toy because I don't have one".4 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mhm... And I already know what will happen. Somehow ZOS will nerf magblades and buff stamblades again by "adjusting" the shade, just like they do with every NB skill.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.1 -
Colecovision✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »
But this dad isn't angry about one of his kids having fun, he's concerned that some of his other kids don't. But what does the entertained kid care about his brethren?
No he is not! The post I quoted wasn't about balance. Not even a little bit. It only attacked the idea of the existence of a stam class not having to depend on weapon skills. And it in no way implies that the problem is that sorc needs a spamable or that templar needs whatever. It's EXACLY like the dad that just wants for fun to not happen no matter what.
Because just like teens dancing is evil, a stam class can't have a full class kit. Only mag. And no sex before marriage and GET...OFF...MY...LAWN!!!!
Point still stands: the 1 stam class with a mostly full kit get's what was lacking while the other classes got the shaft in the recent "class skill" patch. You can fade that out if you simply want to be triggered and fire up the rage mode - or you can grasp that idea and give some thought into it.
Do you really think there would be half as much complains about stamblades if the other stam classes had something close to a complete toolkit too? That's the underlying issue.
His point is not what your point is. In fact, you two seem to be on opposite sides. If I had my way, all the stam classes would have 5 class skills worth using with a couple that are good for mag and stam. I think that's what you want too. Stamblade, Stamden and stamcro seem to be in the right place in that regard. Let's keep pushing for more classes to join the list, not be mad that stamblade can fill the bar.
And for what it's worth, I'm still not convinced this particular skill is even slotable. I need to test it to see if it can push something like poison injection off the bar. I really doubt it can.3 -
Uryel✭✭✭✭✭
✭How can't people understand how ridiuclius it is for a stamina class to have a full class kit with 4 weapon skill lines.... smh
Why would they NOT have a full class kit, please ?
So, your assumption, and it is only that, an assumption, a missrepresented projection from your own psyche, is that stam characters MUST rely on weapon skills, and magicka characters should be able to fully gear themselves with class skills, right ?
Allright, but WHY ? Give any good reason for that.
I personnaly wouldn't mind being able to use mostly class skills on my stamina nightblade. The recent patch spreads the utility over more skills. As I mostly play duo with my wife, I just loved that my most damaging skill also applied a resist debuff on an enemy. It doesn't anymore. In a large party it doesn't matter, one person will bring the skill that will debuff the enemy, the others will bring something else. In small groups or solo, it's a bummer. With only 5 active skills, I can't bring both something to damage and a mark that debuffs the enemy. That's simply not convenient.
The whole skill design is terrible to start with. Most class skills, for any class, don't have a stamina morph, and pretty much every one of them starts as a magicka skill anyway. So, for stamina characters, using class skills means that they will always start useless until they can be morphed, and more often than not, the selection of class skills you might use is so limited that you HAVE to resort to use weapon skills. It's not the same thing as what you describe. The way you say it implies that weapon skills are desireable. Again, why ?
So, the fact that many characters based on stamina use mostly weapon skills, and the opposite, magicka characters using mostly class skills (because they don't really have a choice when it comes to weapons) is the result of a poor design choice in skills, but YOU think it's something people must adhere to. That's bulldung.
And if follow that reasoning properly, then you even contradict yourself. If stam characters are, according tyo you, supposed to use weapons skills first and foremost, then class skills, and even classes at whole, do not matter. So why the nighblade bashing if actual class skills do not matter ?
Nightblades are supposed to be mostly stealthy assassins. Stealth is taken away from both the class (the ONE cloaking skill gives a whopping 1 second of invisibility, which is entirely useless) and one of the two races that used to have it (Bosmers are stealthy by lore and by 25 years of franchise, yet now they are better as guards), skills that provided high damage buffs for quick single target damage output are nerfed to high heavens... The whole class has lost its meaning. A tool for tanking has been added to the "assassination" skill line, FFS. If class change tokens were a thing, I'd have switched my main to something else already. She's my crafter, so I can't just delete her...
Oh, and by the way, it's spelled "ridiculous".Edited by Uryel on May 24, 2019 11:13AM4 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It's already there for both blades. On stamblade Alcast threw away vigor (since merciless resolve now provides some heal, though it is risky anyway), and on magblade shade is placed instead of inner light. This also gives slight buff to health and better major ward/resolve uptime since we have shadow ability on both bars.Colecovision wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »
But this dad isn't angry about one of his kids having fun, he's concerned that some of his other kids don't. But what does the entertained kid care about his brethren?
No he is not! The post I quoted wasn't about balance. Not even a little bit. It only attacked the idea of the existence of a stam class not having to depend on weapon skills. And it in no way implies that the problem is that sorc needs a spamable or that templar needs whatever. It's EXACLY like the dad that just wants for fun to not happen no matter what.
Because just like teens dancing is evil, a stam class can't have a full class kit. Only mag. And no sex before marriage and GET...OFF...MY...LAWN!!!!
Point still stands: the 1 stam class with a mostly full kit get's what was lacking while the other classes got the shaft in the recent "class skill" patch. You can fade that out if you simply want to be triggered and fire up the rage mode - or you can grasp that idea and give some thought into it.
Do you really think there would be half as much complains about stamblades if the other stam classes had something close to a complete toolkit too? That's the underlying issue.
His point is not what your point is. In fact, you two seem to be on opposite sides. If I had my way, all the stam classes would have 5 class skills worth using with a couple that are good for mag and stam. I think that's what you want too. Stamblade, Stamden and stamcro seem to be in the right place in that regard. Let's keep pushing for more classes to join the list, not be mad that stamblade can fill the bar.
And for what it's worth, I'm still not convinced this particular skill is even slotable. I need to test it to see if it can push something like poison injection off the bar. I really doubt it can.
So overall NB's rotation is now even more complex, but also more dps while in stack...
https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-nightblade-build-for-pve/
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Colecovision wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »
But this dad isn't angry about one of his kids having fun, he's concerned that some of his other kids don't. But what does the entertained kid care about his brethren?
No he is not! The post I quoted wasn't about balance. Not even a little bit. It only attacked the idea of the existence of a stam class not having to depend on weapon skills. And it in no way implies that the problem is that sorc needs a spamable or that templar needs whatever. It's EXACLY like the dad that just wants for fun to not happen no matter what.
Because just like teens dancing is evil, a stam class can't have a full class kit. Only mag. And no sex before marriage and GET...OFF...MY...LAWN!!!!
Point still stands: the 1 stam class with a mostly full kit get's what was lacking while the other classes got the shaft in the recent "class skill" patch. You can fade that out if you simply want to be triggered and fire up the rage mode - or you can grasp that idea and give some thought into it.
Do you really think there would be half as much complains about stamblades if the other stam classes had something close to a complete toolkit too? That's the underlying issue.
His point is not what your point is. In fact, you two seem to be on opposite sides. If I had my way, all the stam classes would have 5 class skills worth using with a couple that are good for mag and stam. I think that's what you want too. Stamblade, Stamden and stamcro seem to be in the right place in that regard. Let's keep pushing for more classes to join the list, not be mad that stamblade can fill the bar.
And for what it's worth, I'm still not convinced this particular skill is even slotable. I need to test it to see if it can push something like poison injection off the bar. I really doubt it can.John_Falstaff wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Colecovision wrote: »
But this dad isn't angry about one of his kids having fun, he's concerned that some of his other kids don't. But what does the entertained kid care about his brethren?
No he is not! The post I quoted wasn't about balance. Not even a little bit. It only attacked the idea of the existence of a stam class not having to depend on weapon skills. And it in no way implies that the problem is that sorc needs a spamable or that templar needs whatever. It's EXACLY like the dad that just wants for fun to not happen no matter what.
Because just like teens dancing is evil, a stam class can't have a full class kit. Only mag. And no sex before marriage and GET...OFF...MY...LAWN!!!!
Point still stands: the 1 stam class with a mostly full kit get's what was lacking while the other classes got the shaft in the recent "class skill" patch. You can fade that out if you simply want to be triggered and fire up the rage mode - or you can grasp that idea and give some thought into it.
Do you really think there would be half as much complains about stamblades if the other stam classes had something close to a complete toolkit too? That's the underlying issue.
I think you've missed @Colecovision 's point again. "...if the other stam classes had something close..." - but OP doesn't suggest to give other classes better kit. He's raging about NBs getting something instead. That's the issue for him, not his own class lacking spammable/execute/whatever. He could've created "stamsorc needs spammable" or "mDK needs execute" thread. Instead he decided to rage about NB getting a DoT, arguing that the class "didn't deserve it". Go figure.
If you can't make that jump on your own - and yes, I assume that OP rages because NBs kit is so far ahead of other stam classes - then I don't know what to tell you. If other classes had a similar kit OP would have no foundation to complain.
BTW there are literally dozends of "give stam X a spam/ burst/ Y/Z" - especially before and during the patch. See how that turned out. After being ignored so many times people stop campaigning for a buff to class 1, 2 and 3 and instead complain about class 4. No mindblowing involved.
E: sure, you can go ahead and complain about OP complaining - but that doesn't touch the real issue at hand.
There's no jump, that's the thing. There's a world of difference between "look, this class got a DoT, we need it too" and the plain "look, this class got a DoT, don't give them that DoT, they don't deserve it". Some want all kids to have toys; some want none of them to have any. Yes, there are plenty of buff threads, but OP could create another one, this time with more leverage - since now he has NBs new DoT to back his argument up, it's now easier for him to justify giving missing tools to other classes. And in the end whole this thread is rendered meaningless - OP complains against buffs, I complain about him, but none of us switches to the topic of buffing other classes too. And to touch the real issue... right, we need a buff thread instead. Persistence versus "aaaw, take away that kid's toy because I don't have one".
Okay, I re-read some of his posts and think I was in the wrong. Seemed like it was a tiny bit to early. And I certainly agree that it doesn't help others if this class gets gutted.Stealth is taken away from both the class (the ONE cloaking skill gives a whopping 1 second of invisibility, which is entirely useless)
I don't think it does any good to ignore the passives on this one. With them it's 3 seconds.Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on May 24, 2019 12:38PM0 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »And to touch the real issue... right, we need a buff thread instead. Persistence versus "aaaw, take away that kid's toy because I don't have one".
Yep... people shouldn't be mad that a class has what any class should reasonably have -and I WOULD argue that stamblades do seem to have the most well-rounded set of skills at their hands- they should be mad that other classes DON'T.
But these arguments seem to fall on deaf ears. The fairly constant nerfs that make stamblade play less fun and/or remove or render useless skills that define the NB class are only implemented to balance out the weaknesses in other classes... how about just address those weaknesses to make gameplay more well-rounded for all other classes?
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