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Oblivion damage "scaling mechanism" - Don't forget bleeds
brandonv516
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I see that they are working on changing how Oblivion damage works this patch by reducing the weapon enchant by 33%.
In the developer notes they wrote:
Obviously I'm not talking about nerfing bleeds to the ground but I do want to see this "scaling mechanism" applied to them as well.
For both Oblivion damage and bleeds this is fair.
Edited by brandonv516 on May 24, 2019 11:20AM In the developer notes they wrote:
This is the first step to better balance the interaction of Oblivion Damage in the game on player abilities; in a future update, we plan to introduce a scaling mechanism so these enchantments may be better suited to taking down high health targets to meet their intended goal.
Obviously I'm not talking about nerfing bleeds to the ground but I do want to see this "scaling mechanism" applied to them as well.
For both Oblivion damage and bleeds this is fair.
5
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Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But bleeds already scale like every other ability? They just ignore resistances.12 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And then remember PvP tanks will be unstoppable.Edited by TequilaFire on May 24, 2019 11:27AM6 -
oneway123✭✭✭This was not needed. Please stop pushing tanky pvp with no counters!!!Edited by oneway123 on May 24, 2019 12:10PM4
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brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I fail to see how this pushes "tanky PvP".
Scaling does the exact opposite because it would do more damage against a tanky/high health player and less against someone in light armor.3 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »I fail to see how this pushes "tanky PvP".
Scaling does the exact opposite because it would do more damage against a tanky/high health player and less against someone in light armor.
I'm really, really curious to see how on earth they are going to apply this to PvE. Does that mean the 1.8 million health world bosses are considered tanky and are dealt 100k+ damage from these enchantments? Or are they just going to suck in PvE like they do right now anyway?2 -
Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭There needs to be an answer to tanks in Cyrodiil that conveniently deal high dps. If you have a high HP pool, then Oblivion Damage punishing that is fair. Right now, I can stack upwards of 8000 Oblivion Damage (in addition to everything else) onto a single target within the span of 2 seconds as a Mag Warden. How on earth is that fair for lower hp (normal) builds? Sure, tanks don't care but I think that's ZoS' point - Oblivion Damage over-performs against non-tanks and has no effect against the tank builds it was originally designed for.“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”1 -
oneway123✭✭✭Last patch I ran torugs/bright, destro/restro both oblivion enchants. both bars, either enchant hit for 2141 damage regardless of the target defense/res. Now that damage really only mattered to tanky classes, because squishies get nuked regardless what enchant. This was a way to get solid damage on tanky people @brandonv516!!! Tested this morning, now same setup 1.3k damage per enchant tick. Now if 2.1k is OP then idk what to tell u, but 1.3k is pointless to even use. Another set (torugs) worthless in the tank meta!2
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Betty_Booms✭✭✭Yep this conpletely killed one of my somewhat viable builds. I wouldnt say it over performed by any stretch of the imagination. But bleeds are still silly OP. Go figure they would nerf something magicka may rely upon1
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NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »I fail to see how this pushes "tanky PvP".
Scaling does the exact opposite because it would do more damage against a tanky/high health player and less against someone in light armor.
I'm really, really curious to see how on earth they are going to apply this to PvE. Does that mean the 1.8 million health world bosses are considered tanky and are dealt 100k+ damage from these enchantments? Or are they just going to suck in PvE like they do right now anyway?
Knight Slayer scales but avoids the question by only working on players. I'd expect a similar outcome.Fear is the Mindkiller1 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You already give up damage by building tanky. This whole idea that bleeds and oblivion damage need to punish tanky targets is silly. What's the point of being tanky then?
What this really comes down to is the same old argument heard across every mmo ever. Players are annoyed by tanky targets and so they complain on the forums. Tanks are a part of mmo's, just like glass cannons, gank builds, and everything else. There is no magic tank build that deals tons of damage and can tank tons of damage while also sustaining resources.1 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You already give up damage by building tanky. This whole idea that bleeds and oblivion damage need to punish tanky targets is silly. What's the point of being tanky then?
What this really comes down to is the same old argument heard across every mmo ever. Players are annoyed by tanky targets and so they complain on the forums. Tanks are a part of mmo's, just like glass cannons, gank builds, and everything else. There is no magic tank build that deals tons of damage and can tank tons of damage while also sustaining resources.
Not true at all. There are many heavy armor toting "tanks" out there that can "have their cake and eat it too".
You must not get out a lot.4 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »You already give up damage by building tanky. This whole idea that bleeds and oblivion damage need to punish tanky targets is silly. What's the point of being tanky then?
What this really comes down to is the same old argument heard across every mmo ever. Players are annoyed by tanky targets and so they complain on the forums. Tanks are a part of mmo's, just like glass cannons, gank builds, and everything else. There is no magic tank build that deals tons of damage and can tank tons of damage while also sustaining resources.
Not true at all. There are many heavy armor toting "tanks" out there that can "have their cake and eat it too".
You must not get out a lot.
Prove it?
Show me a tanky build that doesn't give up damage. Every build choice in this game comes with a trade off, that's the beauty of it. It could be argued that specific set bonuses like fury are over performing, but that's a separate issue.1 -
kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »You already give up damage by building tanky. This whole idea that bleeds and oblivion damage need to punish tanky targets is silly. What's the point of being tanky then?
What this really comes down to is the same old argument heard across every mmo ever. Players are annoyed by tanky targets and so they complain on the forums. Tanks are a part of mmo's, just like glass cannons, gank builds, and everything else. There is no magic tank build that deals tons of damage and can tank tons of damage while also sustaining resources.
Not true at all. There are many heavy armor toting "tanks" out there that can "have their cake and eat it too".
You must not get out a lot.
Prove it?
Show me a tanky build that doesn't give up damage. Every build choice in this game comes with a trade off, that's the beauty of it. It could be argued that specific set bonuses like fury are over performing, but that's a separate issue.
Sacrifice sustain while building for pure damage and resistance with a moderate health pool. Burst your opponents down, meditate while they respawn. This doesn't work well for Cyrodiil, but for BGs...0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It does not make sense that oblivion damage would scale with stats carte blanche as OP is suggesting. Oblivion damage enchants scale with the quality and level of the enchant just like every other damage procing enchant in the game. Is would not make sense to have this scale of both quality and everything else in the build and not follow the same rules as similar enchants.0 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »You already give up damage by building tanky. This whole idea that bleeds and oblivion damage need to punish tanky targets is silly. What's the point of being tanky then?
What this really comes down to is the same old argument heard across every mmo ever. Players are annoyed by tanky targets and so they complain on the forums. Tanks are a part of mmo's, just like glass cannons, gank builds, and everything else. There is no magic tank build that deals tons of damage and can tank tons of damage while also sustaining resources.
Not true at all. There are many heavy armor toting "tanks" out there that can "have their cake and eat it too".
You must not get out a lot.
Prove it?
Show me a tanky build that doesn't give up damage. Every build choice in this game comes with a trade off, that's the beauty of it. It could be argued that specific set bonuses like fury are over performing, but that's a separate issue.
I have nothing to prove. Step in to CP PvP and you will see many players who don't need to trade off. This is why I stick to no CP PvP for the most part - where I do agree with you there is a trade off.
I still stand by my opinion: Bleeds need to scale (do more damage based on health pool or armor rating).It does not make sense that oblivion damage would scale with stats carte blanche as OP is suggesting. Oblivion damage enchants scale with the quality and level of the enchant just like every other damage procing enchant in the game. Is would not make sense to have this scale of both quality and everything else in the build and not follow the same rules as similar enchants.
It's not what I'm suggesting. It was literally in the patch notes. All I'm suggesting is that bleeds follow along.0 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Link?
Elsweyr Patch Notes:Consumables
Decrease Health Enchant (Oblivion damage): Reduced the damage of this enchant by 33%.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
Since these enchantments bypass Battle Spirit and other forms of mitigation such as Resistances and Block, these are far stronger than standard elemental damage proc enchantments like Fiery Weapon. This is the first step to better balance the interaction of Oblivion Damage in the game on player abilities; in a future update, we plan to introduce a scaling mechanism so these enchantments may be better suited to taking down high health targets to meet their intended goal.
So again not my suggestion...it's their goal.Edited by brandonv516 on May 25, 2019 2:21PM0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭add 1 point of oblivion damage for every 10 physical or spell resistance the target has, whichever is higher. in pve, that caps out at 1820 in pve in pvp that could go way higher for tanky toons and way lower for light armor.0 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like how people are saying how oblivion damage and bleeds are the counter to tanks but in actuality it's the tanky players who abuse these two things because it's damage which needs very little investment in order to actually deal decent damage to players.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.1 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you create mechanics that specifically counter tanky builds, then what's the point of even having the option to build tanky?
To gain more health, resists, or block mitigation, you already give up damage and or sustain.
Plus there is already something you can add to your build if you want to bust tanks, penetration. Bleeds already ignore armor, so why do they need to deal MORE damage against higher armored characters? That makes no sense at all.
The bottom line is people hate it when they cant kill players and they complain.0 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If you create mechanics that specifically counter tanky builds, then what's the point of even having the option to build tanky?
To gain more health, resists, or block mitigation, you already give up damage and or sustain.
Plus there is already something you can add to your build if you want to bust tanks, penetration. Bleeds already ignore armor, so why do they need to deal MORE damage against higher armored characters? That makes no sense at all.
The bottom line is people hate it when they cant kill players and they complain.
I never said bleeds need to do more damage against tankier setups than what they do now.
I said they need to apply a scaling mechanism to bleeds much like they will to Oblivion damage in the future.
Did you ever think that might mean a lesser effect to players with light/medium armor, less resistances, less health, etc.?
No you didn't because you instantly got hot and bothered by an opinion.0 -
LinearParadox✭✭✭✭✭"Rock is OP, Paper is fine." -Scissors
Every one of these debates boils down to the same silly ass argument with people whining that there's someone they can't kill.
Every build makes sacrifices, not everyone can kill everyone else.
I have a tanky StamDK that's incredibly tanky, and still has damage. You know what it doesn't have? Range, mobility, negative effect removal...
People often mistake someone being powerful against them as universally powerful against everyone, or that because they don't notice the drawbacks or weaknesses of a build, that there aren't any.twitch.tv/linearparadox
Benthar the Unkillable - lvl 50 StamDK - AD
High Confessor Celosia - lvl 50 MagDK, AD
Aeolyndra Sunstrider - lvl 50 Magplar Support God, AD
Maldreth Angala - lvl 50 Magicka PetSorc, AD
Veldrosa Wyldwind - lvl 50 StamSorc, AD
M. Night Shatupon - lvl 50 MagBlade, AD
Vestonia Ironhardt - lvl 50 Warden GuardTank, AD
Bone Daddy - lvl 50 TankCro, AD
Abra Kedaver - lvl 50 MagCro, AD
And many more...
CP 1700+2 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »If you create mechanics that specifically counter tanky builds, then what's the point of even having the option to build tanky?
To gain more health, resists, or block mitigation, you already give up damage and or sustain.
Plus there is already something you can add to your build if you want to bust tanks, penetration. Bleeds already ignore armor, so why do they need to deal MORE damage against higher armored characters? That makes no sense at all.
The bottom line is people hate it when they cant kill players and they complain.
I never said bleeds need to do more damage against tankier setups than what they do now.
I said they need to apply a scaling mechanism to bleeds much like they will to Oblivion damage in the future.
Did you ever think that might mean a lesser effect to players with light/medium armor, less resistances, less health, etc.?
No you didn't because you instantly got hot and bothered by an opinion.
Sorry, but because someone disagrees with your opinion doesn't mean they are upset.
I dont think any scaling needs to happen at all. Light and medium armor dont need protection from bleeds or oblivion damage. That was the choice you made by choosing more damage and sustain on your armor instead of resists and health.
I dont think a mechanic needs to be introduced to punish tanky builds or protect squishy players, because all armor types are viable and strong right now.0 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »If you create mechanics that specifically counter tanky builds, then what's the point of even having the option to build tanky?
To gain more health, resists, or block mitigation, you already give up damage and or sustain.
Plus there is already something you can add to your build if you want to bust tanks, penetration. Bleeds already ignore armor, so why do they need to deal MORE damage against higher armored characters? That makes no sense at all.
The bottom line is people hate it when they cant kill players and they complain.
I never said bleeds need to do more damage against tankier setups than what they do now.
I said they need to apply a scaling mechanism to bleeds much like they will to Oblivion damage in the future.
Did you ever think that might mean a lesser effect to players with light/medium armor, less resistances, less health, etc.?
No you didn't because you instantly got hot and bothered by an opinion.
Sorry, but because someone disagrees with your opinion doesn't mean they are upset.
I dont think any scaling needs to happen at all. Light and medium armor dont need protection from bleeds or oblivion damage. That was the choice you made by choosing more damage and sustain on your armor instead of resists and health.
I dont think a mechanic needs to be introduced to punish tanky builds or protect squishy players, because all armor types are viable and strong right now.
Scaling is going to happen with Oblivion damage regardless of your opinion or mine. That's the direction they want to go.
Bleeds were designed similarly and should take a cue from Oblivion damage scaling.
Of course all armor types are viable right now but make no mistake that the heavy armor Stamina player is ahead by a mile (especially noticeable in CP).0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I get the feeling that Oblivion damage enchants will end up doing % Max HP Oblivion damage.
You're corrupting a soul, a persons essence. Not a body, so health/armor/resistance is meaningless. All that matters is how vile the enchantment is.
Bleeds? I think, for now, they're fine as is. But the state they're in now is a gameplay balance with little adherence to IRL experience. (More armor = less deep wound = Less bleed Damage = Bleeds don't ignore Phys resistance). Such that they could use a touch-up, but would likely need an entire overhaul. (Given that Bleeds are more prevalent in abilities compared to Oblivion Damage)0
