What if healers didn't have healing springs.

Tasear · May 2019

How would it change things in gameplay for healers.

Would classes still heal fine?

Would it make healing more challenging?

John_Falstaff · May 2019

Tasear: What it healers didn't have healing springs? How would it change things in gameplay for healers?
ZOS (reading the thread): Hm-m, what a lovely idea!..

Sorry, I just couldn't help it.

Reverb · May 2019

I would expect sustain issues, since the other healing spammables are costlier.

But healers shouldn’t have an over reliance on Springs anyway, from the perspective of someone who has been healing end game content since launch. I never slot it for 4-man content except for a few dlc final boss burn strategies. For the most part, if I see springs in a dungeon I know I have a cheese-healer.

In trials I’m as guilty as anyone of crutching on Springs, but it’s never my primary heal in the logs, and gets beat out by Combat Prayer, orbs and Mutagen, in that order.

Honestly I think the removal of Combat Prayer would have a bigger impact than removing Springs.

Kikke · May 2019

eeh, who uses springs anymore? You use combat prayer + orbs instead.

Royaji · May 2019

It would probably devastate inexperienced/bad healers (who spam springs) and have little effect on experienced players (who heal with Orbs, Prayer and an occasional burst heal).

VaranisArano · May 2019

Looking at it from the perspective of a leveling healer, its the first good group heal most classes get. Wardens and Templars would be fine. Sorcs and MagDKs unlock their healing class skills and Combat Prayer later.

VaxtinTheWolf · May 2019

Nightblade healer.. I have the ability on my bar sometimes but rarely use it. The times when I would use it is if the group left me behind while I'm opening a chest that I called out, or there are (usually)stamina players that race ahead to gather mobs, who then also require near immediate healing as a result. I'm waiting on DLC dungeon sales do I only have non DLC vet dungeons on my end, and no ESO+.

yooqi · May 2019

Well, depends if it would be replaced with something more interesting

Reverb · May 2019

Some good points made here. The hypothetical removal of springs would be devastating for low-level healers, inexperienced healers, and bad healers.

kathandira · May 2019

Tasear wrote: »

How would it change things in gameplay for healers.

Would classes still heal fine?

Would it make healing more challenging?

I would then end up using the Asylum Resto Staff and spam Combat Prayer more often.

mobicera · May 2019

All it would do is prevent groups new to vet trials from progressing at all.
Would be one of the dumbest changes they could make to this game.

crazywolfpusher · May 2019

Veteran Frostvault is one of those dungeons where Springs feels great.

Starlock · May 2019

Depends on what you are doing. I run mostly 4-person dungeons with randoms on normal, so it is a real grab bag of what you get. I haven't done heals on vet that I can recall, but I probably could given some of the crazy groups I've kept alive on normals. XD

I wouldn't say healing springs is essential for any of my three characters who have been healers. Two of the three have never used healing springs when doing healing duty. The third only sometimes uses it depending on whether or not I feel like slotting it (usually I don't).

Ogou · May 2019

<--- Not a healer

What's the issue with Springs as it is currently?

itsfatbass · May 2019

Hairy at times but doable. Just be more magicka consumption really.

DarkerDreams · May 2019

Ahhh, always love the elitist comments. It's cheese .. only bad healers use it... blah, blah blah

It's a cheap, spammable heal, that's why it gets used and not just for trials. Pug a few dungeons with people who constantly like to stand in the red and you'll see why it's so useful. Can I keep them alive without it, of course , but it's more of a hassle that way

TheNightflame · May 2019

Really I use orbs as my springs (and don't use springs but illustrious healing

) I only use illustrious when the healing output is needed

p00tx · May 2019

As often as I encounter BoL spamming healers, you'd think half of the community wasn't even aware this skill existed already. It'd be a little rough on those of us who know how to weave it into our rotations properly, but we'd adapt, like we always do when some well-meaning person decides to make more unnecessary changes to healing.

crazywolfpusher · May 2019

Ogou wrote: »

<--- Not a healer

What's the issue with Springs as it is currently?

Is the best aoe heal (not true, vigor is stronger) in the game, unlimited targets, can stack, cheap, best control for olorime outside templar class.

What_In_Tarnation · May 2019

I think if we're going to make healers more challenging in dungeons and trials, maybe we should take a look at healing orb instead.

10s duration, pretty generous healing radius, ticks every 0.5 second (20 ticks), it gives back resource when you use synergy plus heal your group and it moves really really really slow, you can get many ticks easily.

karekiz · May 2019

What_In_Tarnation wrote: »

I think if we're going to make healers more challenging in dungeons

You need healers in dungeons first tho

*Edit:

Furthermore the road of "Lets make it harder for no reason other than to make it harder because "X" player can do "Y" is very silly and shows a lack of the total general player base knowledge.

I mean wouldn't a better question be "What if we removed all DPS/Tank abilities to heal/shield?" Wouldn't that make it more challenging for all roles and increase the need for healers in 4 man content since dmg would be punishing to take and you wouldn't be able to self recover? Tanks even tanky ones would eventually die to dmg from bosses since they would lack any form of self healing.

Donnasnowheart_ESO · May 2019

It would be more interactive that's for sure healing springs and healing orb are prob the biggest reason why healing can feel so boring on the hps side of things in a pve setting. Without a doubt though it would make healing more challenging but most likely end up running into the issue of classes saying who has the best class heals and how X class can't heal this level of content because it's class healing is bad. Which still happens today but on a smaller scale and more so refined to pvp because we have healing springs and energy orbs for pve

Overall though I think the real issue, for all roles and classes are champion points its the same for dps and the same for tanks champion levels are just to strong.

SydneyGrey · May 2019

I don't use Healing Springs with my warden.
I use Healing Seed morphed to Budding Seed, and that works better.

idk · May 2019

It would limit what classes can heal. DKs would be in an even worse spot.

Grandma · May 2019

dang i didn't know the elitists were already on the "springs is a crutch" train. I suppose the next step is "healing is a crutch" which i've already seen but... dang.

Tasear · May 2019

idk wrote: »

It would limit what classes can heal. DKs would be in an even worse spot.

That's also another reason I mentioned it. The fact that this is true is issue. Some of classes lack healing playstle that isn't reliant on resto skill line. For dk for example a lot of healing skills are impractical in pve.

Tasear · May 2019

Grandma wrote: »

dang i didn't know the elitists were already on the "springs is a crutch" train. I suppose the next step is "healing is a crutch" which i've already seen but... dang.

The only say that because they forgot what it is to heal outside corindated groups. People don't stack enough for slow moving orbs to work like they think. Lastly in dungeons they simply don't understand what is like to pug it, especially with bol fix making it only front heals.

idk · May 2019

Tasear wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It would limit what classes can heal. DKs would be in an even worse spot.

That's also another reason I mentioned it. The fact that this is true is issue. Some of classes lack healing playstle that isn't reliant on resto skill line. For dk for example a lot of healing skills are impractical in pve.

Since they have healing springs it is not an issue. Zos clearly designed the classes so they would not be the same and that clear difference shows with how the Templar was the only class at launch with a healing skill line.

Zos has also specifically stated just over 2 years ago that they intend for some classes to better at some roles than others. That was during the introduction of Morrowind and the Warden.

It would take a complete redesign of all three of the other classes to put them on par with the Templar, Warden and possibly the Necro since it would require a skill line with a healing focus. That would change the dynamics of those classes in every way. I do not see this happening for a multitude of reasons. Heck, this update would have been the update to do it.

Tasear · May 2019

idk wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It would limit what classes can heal. DKs would be in an even worse spot.

That's also another reason I mentioned it. The fact that this is true is issue. Some of classes lack healing playstle that isn't reliant on resto skill line. For dk for example a lot of healing skills are impractical in pve.

Since they have healing springs it is not an issue. Zos clearly designed the classes so they would not be the same and that clear difference shows with how the Templar was the only class at launch with a healing skill line.

Zos has also specifically stated just over 2 years ago that they intend for some classes to better at some roles than others. That was during the introduction of Morrowind and the Warden.

It would take a complete redesign of all three of the other classes to put them on par with the Templar, Warden and possibly the Necro since it would require a skill line with a healing focus. That would change the dynamics of those classes in every way. I do not see this happening for a multitude of reasons. Heck, this update would have been the update to do it.

😛 Nightblade is fine they always had a healing skill line. Dk just needs adjustments for them to be usable in pve. Sorc ...why do I main this? Easy fix they just add utility on to unused skills in dark magicka skill line. My point is healing springs hides these flaws.

My other point there really is issue of how springs goes with mechics. I wondered if though springs part of issue of healing always being delclared easiest role. At last, I simply curious on what if.

idk · May 2019

Tasear wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It would limit what classes can heal. DKs would be in an even worse spot.

That's also another reason I mentioned it. The fact that this is true is issue. Some of classes lack healing playstle that isn't reliant on resto skill line. For dk for example a lot of healing skills are impractical in pve.

Since they have healing springs it is not an issue. Zos clearly designed the classes so they would not be the same and that clear difference shows with how the Templar was the only class at launch with a healing skill line.

Zos has also specifically stated just over 2 years ago that they intend for some classes to better at some roles than others. That was during the introduction of Morrowind and the Warden.

It would take a complete redesign of all three of the other classes to put them on par with the Templar, Warden and possibly the Necro since it would require a skill line with a healing focus. That would change the dynamics of those classes in every way. I do not see this happening for a multitude of reasons. Heck, this update would have been the update to do it.

😛 Nightblade is fine they always had a healing skill line. Dk just needs adjustments for them to be usable in pve. Sorc ...why do I main this? Easy fix they just add utility on to unused skills in dark magicka skill line. My point is healing springs hides these flaws.

My other point there really is issue of how springs goes with mechics. I wondered if though springs part of issue of healing always being delclared easiest role. At last, I simply curious on what if.

NBs would struggle without HS. In reality, all classes would struggle without HS. The being able to stack a hot that heals the 6 that need it most with every tick is pretty strong. One can even start healing an area just before the damage hits if they know the fight or see damage about to hit.

This is why HS has been such a popular heal for all classes in both PvP and PvE since day one.

Tasear · May 2019

idk wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It would limit what classes can heal. DKs would be in an even worse spot.

That's also another reason I mentioned it. The fact that this is true is issue. Some of classes lack healing playstle that isn't reliant on resto skill line. For dk for example a lot of healing skills are impractical in pve.

Since they have healing springs it is not an issue. Zos clearly designed the classes so they would not be the same and that clear difference shows with how the Templar was the only class at launch with a healing skill line.

Zos has also specifically stated just over 2 years ago that they intend for some classes to better at some roles than others. That was during the introduction of Morrowind and the Warden.

It would take a complete redesign of all three of the other classes to put them on par with the Templar, Warden and possibly the Necro since it would require a skill line with a healing focus. That would change the dynamics of those classes in every way. I do not see this happening for a multitude of reasons. Heck, this update would have been the update to do it.

😛 Nightblade is fine they always had a healing skill line. Dk just needs adjustments for them to be usable in pve. Sorc ...why do I main this? Easy fix they just add utility on to unused skills in dark magicka skill line. My point is healing springs hides these flaws.

My other point there really is issue of how springs goes with mechics. I wondered if though springs part of issue of healing always being delclared easiest role. At last, I simply curious on what if.

NBs would struggle without HS. In reality, all classes would struggle without HS. The being able to stack a hot that heals the 6 that need it most with every tick is pretty strong. One can even start healing an area just before the damage hits if they know the fight or see damage about to hit.

This is why HS has been such a popular heal for all classes in both PvP and PvE since day one.

You aren't wrong but I still think healing springs hides bigger issues with healing role. I am not saying that we should ever get rid of it, but for most people the skill is essential with vary little variations. Also it does promote stack and burn methods. Again not saying get rid of it, but if you imagine how essentially 99% percent of it use it's a problem just like food change reasoning.