Rimmen, the Capital of Elsweyr, is Occupied?

ArchMikem · March 2019

Elsweyr's capital is the beautiful city of Rimmen, currently occupied by Imperial mercenaries, where the local Khajiit are equal part residents and captives.

I, need some context for this. One, i thought the capital of the Confederacy was down south, Torval i think. Second, why is the city occupied by Imperial mercs who are holding the Khajiit hostage? And how is the Dominion allowing this?

Robo_Hobo · March 2019

It sounds like Northern Elsweyr is unofficially split from the south again, in the same way that Skyrim is West and East. When the chapter comes out I imagine the zone name will actually be Anequina, and the promotional stuff is just calling it Elsweyr as it's a more known term. Sort of like how the first chapter was called Morrowind even though it was Vvardenfell, and called Vvardenfell as the in-game zone name.

So in the northern half the capital is Rimmen, probably meaning Riverhold and Orcrest might be also in a similar situation with Imperial control (we never heard if Khali and Shazah's mother's rebels were successful in liberating Orcrest/Riverhold when the Colovians invaded 20 years ago, only that they fought, and that their mother died during it) which means that the Reaper's March setting with stopping Javad Tharn from taking over the area, especially considering Arenthia was already occupied at the start of the storyline, was really only the first turning point in the Khajiit's favor for control of any of Northern Elsweyr.

So yeah, it really does make you wonder about what the Khajiit are getting out of helping Ayrenn. Ayrenn helped the Bosmer repel a Colovian invasion and settled a civil war right before 580, but the Khajiit? Nearly half the province is in Imperial occupation, and they're still focusing on sending the brunt of the troops, including Khajiiti troops, to the front lines to take Cyrodiil lol.

Meanwhile, Dragons and an Imperial army of Necromancers are also about to get involved, and considering that it's post-base game content which tries to be faction-neutral, there's probably going to be little official dominion support other than the local Khajiit and potentially dominion-aligned adventurers, to help quell the threats.

MaisonNaevius · April 2019

Phrastus of Elinhir wrote:

Even though the Elsweyr Confederacy has been ratified, the gambits of the Nibenese of Rimmen and the Colovians of Skingrad and Arenthia are still unchanged, as the Khajiiti territories continue to squabble. However, it has done some good; the factions have fallen into line under the leadership of the Mane, who holds spiritual sway over the common beasts.

All this is only theory :

I think that colovian and nibenese do not get along well.
The Legion is with Abnur Tharn, representative of the Empire.
Euraxia Tharn of Rimmen is "not the Empire" for Abnur. She has the support of the Euraxian (imperial mercenaries).

I think the cities of Riverhold and Orcrest have been released. A first step taken by the colovians for the cessation of hostilities maybe.

Danikat · April 2019

A lot of provinces aren't actually unified, even internally, throughout most of Tamriel's history. Even during the 3rd Empire (the one Tiber Septim founded and the only one which actually conquered the entire continent) a lot of provinces were split into seperate kingdoms. For example in the Wolf Queen books the emperors granddaughter is married to the king of Solitude, and her brother is king of Lilmoth. And of course the whole Daggerfall storyline was about trying to unite the warring kingdoms in High Rock.

So it wouldn't surprise me at all if Elsweyr was currently split into two seperate kingdoms, and being attacked by anyone who thinks they can take advantage of the chaos.

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

It sounds like Northern Elsweyr is unofficially split from the south again, in the same way that Skyrim is West and East. When the chapter comes out I imagine the zone name will actually be Anequina, and the promotional stuff is just calling it Elsweyr as it's a more known term. Sort of like how the first chapter was called Morrowind even though it was Vvardenfell, and called Vvardenfell as the in-game zone name.

So in the northern half the capital is Rimmen, probably meaning Riverhold and Orcrest might be also in a similar situation with Imperial control (we never heard if Khali and Shazah's mother's rebels were successful in liberating Orcrest/Riverhold when the Colovians invaded 20 years ago, only that they fought, and that their mother died during it) which means that the Reaper's March setting with stopping Javad Tharn from taking over the area, especially considering Arenthia was already occupied at the start of the storyline, was really only the first turning point in the Khajiit's favor for control of any of Northern Elsweyr.

So yeah, it really does make you wonder about what the Khajiit are getting out of helping Ayrenn. Ayrenn helped the Bosmer repel a Colovian invasion and settled a civil war right before 580, but the Khajiit? Nearly half the province is in Imperial occupation, and they're still focusing on sending the brunt of the troops, including Khajiiti troops, to the front lines to take Cyrodiil lol.

Meanwhile, Dragons and an Imperial army of Necromancers are also about to get involved, and considering that it's post-base game content which tries to be faction-neutral, there's probably going to be little official dominion support other than the local Khajiit and potentially dominion-aligned adventurers, to help quell the threats.

If I remember correctly the Dominion claimed credit for stopping the Knahaten Flu. I'm not sure what they're supposed to have done to stop it, other than moving in as it died down, but that was their justification for bringing the khajiit into the Dominion.

Faulgor · April 2019

You are correct that it doesn't make sense. According to the 1st PGE, the capital of Anequina and the subsequent united Elsweyr was Ne Quin-al, until it was taken by Khajiiti rebels, and after the intervention of the Mane, the capital was probably moved to his seat in Torval. As for a capital of Anequina, none is specifically mentioned, but I assume it is Ne Quin-al still, which should be at or someways south of present day Orcrest: https://images.uesp.net/f/f4/LO-map-Elsweyr_(PGE1).jpg

The capital also shouldn't be Rimmen, because according to every source we have, it should be occupied by Akaviri at this time. The very name refers to the Tsaesci refugees that were driven out by the warlord Attrebus some time in the early interregnum: Rim men, men of the rim territories.

Elsonso · April 2019

Faulgor wrote: »

You are correct that it doesn't make sense. According to the 1st PGE, the capital of Anequina and the subsequent united Elsweyr was Ne Quin-al, until it was taken by Khajiiti rebels, and after the intervention of the Mane, the capital was probably moved to his seat in Torval. As for a capital of Anequina, none is specifically mentioned, but I assume it is Ne Quin-al still, which should be at or someways south of present day Orcrest: https://images.uesp.net/f/f4/LO-map-Elsweyr_(PGE1).jpg

The capital also shouldn't be Rimmen, because according to every source we have, it should be occupied by Akaviri at this time. The very name refers to the Tsaesci refugees that were driven out by the warlord Attrebus some time in the early interregnum: Rim men, men of the rim territories.

Capitals move around. If you go to Rimmen and there are no Akaviri, but Imperials, realize that "every source we have" means they all built off of the same wrong information. When the in-game experience differs from lore sources, you have to question the validity of the lore source that conflicts with the in-game experience.

Elder Scrolls lore is designed to be biased and potentially wrong, especially when it comes to political and social descriptions.

Faulgor · April 2019

lordrichter wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

You are correct that it doesn't make sense. According to the 1st PGE, the capital of Anequina and the subsequent united Elsweyr was Ne Quin-al, until it was taken by Khajiiti rebels, and after the intervention of the Mane, the capital was probably moved to his seat in Torval. As for a capital of Anequina, none is specifically mentioned, but I assume it is Ne Quin-al still, which should be at or someways south of present day Orcrest: https://images.uesp.net/f/f4/LO-map-Elsweyr_(PGE1).jpg

The capital also shouldn't be Rimmen, because according to every source we have, it should be occupied by Akaviri at this time. The very name refers to the Tsaesci refugees that were driven out by the warlord Attrebus some time in the early interregnum: Rim men, men of the rim territories.

Capitals move around. If you go to Rimmen and there are no Akaviri, but Imperials, realize that "every source we have" means they all built off of the same wrong information. When the in-game experience differs from lore sources, you have to question the validity of the lore source that conflicts with the in-game experience.

Elder Scrolls lore is designed to be biased and potentially wrong, especially when it comes to political and social descriptions.

It's not always the same source, though. Even in ESO itself there are sources like the Tsaesci motif book, that is written by a Tsaesci that claims to work in the Tonenaka in Rimmen. Of course all sources in TES are biased, but it's unusual that different sources are biased in the same way.

Regardless, it just feels disappointing when something interesting is substituted for something less interesting.

Elsonso · April 2019

Faulgor wrote: »

Regardless, it just feels disappointing when something interesting is substituted for something less interesting.

Cannot argue with that.

Smaxx · April 2019

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

So yeah, it really does make you wonder about what the Khajiit are getting out of helping Ayrenn. Ayrenn helped the Bosmer repel a Colovian invasion and settled a civil war right before 580, but the Khajiit? Nearly half the province is in Imperial occupation, and they're still focusing on sending the brunt of the troops, including Khajiiti troops, to the front lines to take Cyrodiil lol.

As mentioned above, the Dominion claimed to be responsible for defeating the Knahaten Flu. Also don't forget that Euraxia invaded several years before the events of the game, so to me this sounds as if her rule is basically settled for now – iot's a stalemate.

The Khajiit lack the power and troops (and willing allies) to drive her out. So they basically focus on their remaining territories rather than actively fighting to get Rimmen back – the city is held hostage after all.

This might potentially even be part of their whole motivation to concentrate on helping the Dominion: "If we help them now, they will help us deal with Euraxia later." Don't forget that the general goal of the Aldmeri Dominion clearly conflicts with Euraxia claiming the throne of Elsweyr (or even more) – they want High Elves to rule Tamriel, not Imperials.

Last but not least don't forget that – similar to Wrothgar – Elsweyr isn't as united as many might think. There's the kingdom of Anequina (which we'll get in "Elsweyr") and Pellitine. The Mane might be their spiritual leader for both regions, but isn't their political one.

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As for the capital: The original quote above is probably just inaccurate. Seems like Rimmen is the capital of Anequina (not all of Elsweyr). I've seen multiple times the devs generally talking about "Elsweyr", while they actually mean "Northern Elsweyr" (i.e. Anequina).

As for the Pocket Guide itself: It's certainly an interesting point. But when was or will it be printed? assuming that's like 300 years after ESO, so things might have changed again (uniting Anequina and Pellitine after the events of ESO and declaring a new capital more central (i.e. where described)? Besides that, the PG map is weird, considering only Rimmen has a proper "city dot", but not Ne Quin-al.

Faulgor · April 2019

Smaxx wrote: »

As for the capital: The original quote above is probably just inaccurate. Seems like Rimmen is the capital of Anequina (not all of Elsweyr). I've seen multiple times the devs generally talking about "Elsweyr", while they actually mean "Northern Elsweyr" (i.e. Anequina).

As for the Pocket Guide itself: It's certainly an interesting point. But when was or will it be printed? assuming that's like 300 years after ESO, so things might have changed again (uniting Anequina and Pellitine after the events of ESO and declaring a new capital more central (i.e. where described)? Besides that, the PG map is weird, considering only Rimmen has a proper "city dot", but not Ne Quin-al.

Yeah, I think they just mean "Elsweyr the chapter" and not "Elsweyr the province". At least that's the easiest way to explain it.

And of course, the 1st PGE was written in 2E864, so almost 300 years after ESO. PGE3 in 3E432, so even longer after that. Still, it's where most of what we know (or think we know) about the provinces comes from. So it's perfectly possible that the capital changed. Rimmen is just an odd choice because it should be dominated by Akaviri at the time and will declare independence from Elsweyr in 200+ years.

I don't find anything that disputes that Anequina and Pellitine are united at the time of ESO, though - the unification happened in 2E309, so not even that long ago from ESO's perspective. Which of course doesn't necessarily mean that the states of Anequina and Pellitine don't exist anymore, as Elsweyr is a Confederacy of both states. Similar to Skyrim and its different holds.

The PGE1 map is indeed weird, but more so in that it's the only one I know of that even places Ne Quin-al anywhere. It doesn't seem to exist anymore on later maps, and I haven't found it on the PTS either. Although according to PGE3, it still exists well into the 3rd era ("its Temple of Two-Moons Dance is famous even in our day"). No clue what happened to it.

(In my head-canon, Ne Quin-al could be the old name for Rimmen before it came to prosperity under the Akaviri, but there's not much evidence for it.)

MaisonNaevius · April 2019

Ne Quin-al is not the alternate name of Anequina ?

ArchMikem · April 2019

Smaxx wrote: »

Last but not least don't forget that – similar to Wrothgar – Elsweyr isn't as united as many might think. There's the kingdom of Anequina (which we'll get in "Elsweyr") and Pellitine. The Mane might be their spiritual leader for both regions, but isn't their political one.

Actually Pellitine and Anequina are allied under the Mane politically also during the events of the Game as well forming the Confederacy, with it's Capital being Torval. I was a bit uneducated of the Chapter when I wrote the OP and didn't know Rimmen was only the regional Capital city of Anequina, not of all Elsweyr.

Faulgor · April 2019

Maki2859 wrote: »

Ne Quin-al is not the alternate name of Anequina ?

It's curious. The PGE3 says Anequina is just the Cyrodiilic version of the Ta'agra Ne Quin-al, and it refers both to the land and a city, with the city probably pre-dating the kingdom.

However, I've also come across references to a Queen Anequina on the PTS. I assume she was named after her kingdom, as otherwise would contradict the whole etymology of the word. Why she'd carry the Cyrodiilic name and not the Ta'agra one I have no idea.

Number_51 · April 2019

Faulgor wrote: »

Maki2859 wrote: »

Ne Quin-al is not the alternate name of Anequina ?

It's curious. The PGE3 says Anequina is just the Cyrodiilic version of the Ta'agra Ne Quin-al, and it refers both to the land and a city, with the city probably pre-dating the kingdom.

However, I've also come across references to a Queen Anequina on the PTS. I assume she was named after her kingdom, as otherwise would contradict the whole etymology of the word. Why she'd carry the Cyrodiilic name and not the Ta'agra one I have no idea.

I thought I read somewhere that the kingdom was named after her. Her being "Anequina Sharp-Tongue, queen and moon-priest of the Ne Quin-al pride".

Ilision · May 2019

This is ridiculous!

Our home is occupied and we are the slaves in it... Soon enough there will be cat clothing made from Khajiit. Come on.