How do you all feel about opening up end game to all players? ( for 1 week out of the year)

MikaHR · May 2019

"Endgame" is open to everyone 365/7/24 and "elitists" arent needed for anything, they are delusional ones that think theyre needed, they claim theyre needed, but in fact in most cases they are bad for the game....proven again and again...just like OP....

*khm* Wildstar *khm*

max_only · May 2019

Op hasn’t suggested how they would “open up game content”. Exactly what would “open” it up more than it currently is. Are you suggesting 1 week duration gold armor and perfect weapons so casuals can do the trials properly? Are you suggesting 1 week of story mode/no fighting in trials? They already power level/battle level under lvl50 characters so it’s not like any other buff could be greater. I don’t get your suggestion.

Exactly what is the thing you want done that will “open it up?”

Beardimus · May 2019

wishlist14 wrote: »

This is just an idea. I have been thinking about this for many years now. There is a huge misconception that end game has to be all about elitist gamers flexing their godly gamer muscles. I understand that 1% of elitist players are needed to raise a bar so high most average, good players can't reach. I know it's there for a reason, to keep players aspiring to get good and push themselves to work harder. I see how game developers work with this game difficulty model in mind when creating end game content.

My idea would be to have an amnesty week where all eso content would be open for all levels to experience at a more manageable pace...non elitist. I know there are players that I'm sure would love to take a peek at seeing some of the amazing landscapes, quests and all the lore which most only dream about. Why keep some our lore lovers vaulted shut out of eso content. That is extremely shameful to me since the Elder Scrolls games have always essentialy been about its rich lore.

I'm not saying to take anything away from our very hard working end gamers. There would be non of the end game rewards such as ;titles, skins, rare mounts or anything of that nature. This amnesty trials and dungeons week would be about opening Tamriel up to all it's citizens. I'm not sure exactly if it could work. It could even be an event thing.

My reason behind this idea is not just for myself. I do play end game and I know I can get further but I also know some older people who would love to see and experience more of the game they have enjoyed for many years. Not every player will be confident enough or even want to play end game but may want to visit those places that seem forever locked to them

Anyway pls don't hate me Im not here to annoy anyone. I just wanted to play around with this concept and would love your feedback thank you.🌻❤

What amazing landscapes and lore can't folks get to? The ultra hard 1% is just achievements

MikaHR · May 2019

max_only wrote: »

Op hasn’t suggested how they would “open up game content”. Exactly what would “open” it up more than it currently is. Are you suggesting 1 week duration gold armor and perfect weapons so casuals can do the trials properly? Are you suggesting 1 week of story mode/no fighting in trials? They already power level/battle level under lvl50 characters so it’s not like any other buff could be greater. I don’t get your suggestion.

Exactly what is the thing you want done that will “open it up?”

Well i guess he ment to make "endgame" soloable.

But he has mistaken his endgame for endgame of vast majority...which is not farming raids.

zyk · May 2019

It's funny to me that the top 1% is referenced so often by casual players in this game. 1% is nothing. Actual elite gamers are probably in the top 0.002%.

I'd be surprised if more than 1% of ESO players know the approximate cost of roll dodge, break-free and block.

Wolfkeks · May 2019

Endgame players =/= elistist

I'm not quite sure what you mean with 'open up' endgame content, could you elaborate on that please?

Alcast · May 2019

There is NORMAL mode for every endgame activity that can be completely without having any knowledge about the game whatsoever about the game.

Iluvrien · May 2019

idk wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

How about one week a year, I'm the NBA champion and paid like Kevin Durant?

When I started playing MMOs in the form of text based MUDs, particularly Diku, I thought it was amazingly cool that there was this incredibly high ceiling that existed for enthusiasts. It helped to create the illusion of a vast virtual world, with amazing things I could only dream of.... unless I chose to put the work in.

Which I didn't do, because it wasn't my thing. That content was designed for a different kind of player.

So I think this idea is terrible. Not only to the players who put the effort into learning the game well enough to explore more challenging locations, but also to those who would dream of it and be inspired to work with others to learn how to do it.

Further, your goal is an impossible one. By removing the challenge, you remove all value existing in those environment has. If we could all be NBA champions, no one would care about it, so why would we want to be that?

As a previous fellow MUD player (LPMud not Diku) I know what you mean.

However, to use your analogy, I don’t think the OP is asking to become NBA champion... but to be allowed to explore the court where the NBA champions play.

But that is what normal trials are for. They are significantly easier than vet and designed for the average player.

I have a pretty horrendous ping due to my location (SW Japan). There are others. I can even think of at least one forum regular who frequently refers to difficulty clearing delve and quest bosses due to “mega” ping.

Sometimes reaching “average player” levels is significantly more difficult than it sounds.

rpa · May 2019

Housing is the real endgame and it is already open for all players.

Wolfkeks · May 2019

Iluvrien wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

How about one week a year, I'm the NBA champion and paid like Kevin Durant?

When I started playing MMOs in the form of text based MUDs, particularly Diku, I thought it was amazingly cool that there was this incredibly high ceiling that existed for enthusiasts. It helped to create the illusion of a vast virtual world, with amazing things I could only dream of.... unless I chose to put the work in.

Which I didn't do, because it wasn't my thing. That content was designed for a different kind of player.

So I think this idea is terrible. Not only to the players who put the effort into learning the game well enough to explore more challenging locations, but also to those who would dream of it and be inspired to work with others to learn how to do it.

Further, your goal is an impossible one. By removing the challenge, you remove all value existing in those environment has. If we could all be NBA champions, no one would care about it, so why would we want to be that?

As a previous fellow MUD player (LPMud not Diku) I know what you mean.

However, to use your analogy, I don’t think the OP is asking to become NBA champion... but to be allowed to explore the court where the NBA champions play.

But that is what normal trials are for. They are significantly easier than vet and designed for the average player.

I have a pretty horrendous ping due to my location (SW Japan). There are others. I can even think of at least one forum regular who frequently refers to difficulty clearing delve and quest bosses due to “mega” ping.

Sometimes reaching “average player” levels is significantly more difficult than it sounds.

Tend to get a horrible ping too due to my location.
While my ping still a bit high, my performance got a lot better with these ideas.

https://youtu.be/aKhUnXyOcnc

Maybe it helps a bit

jainiadral · May 2019

As a casual solo player, I don't really think "endgame" is closed to me at all. I'm a little grumpy that ZOS chose to gate some minor story bits behind DLC dungeons without a solo/story mode. I'd like to see soloable dungeons but I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist if they don't materialize.

If I cared, I'm sure I could do a lot of normal difficulty endgame type activities if I tried and sought out a guild. But I have zero interest. Heh, maybe endgame is "closed to me" in that sense

kargen27 · May 2019

zyk wrote: »

How about one week a year, I'm the NBA champion and paid like Kevin Durant?

When I started playing MMOs in the form of text based MUDs, particularly Diku, I thought it was amazingly cool that there was this incredibly high ceiling that existed for enthusiasts. It helped to create the illusion of a vast virtual world, with amazing things I could only dream of.... unless I chose to put the work in.

Which I didn't do, because it wasn't my thing. That content was designed for a different kind of player.

So I think this idea is terrible. Not only to the players who put the effort into learning the game well enough to explore more challenging locations, but also to those who would dream of it and be inspired to work with others to learn how to do it.

Further, your goal is an impossible one. By removing the challenge, you remove all value existing in those environment has. If we could all be NBA champions, no one would care about it, so why would we want to be that?

Well that was a silly argument. He isn't saying let me be a NBA champion. He is saying let me see the locker room one time. No rewards just a basic walk through with low key fights so players can see all the cool things in some of the dungeons and trials. Some of them look amazing and it is fun to take your time and look around.

zyk · May 2019

It just goes to show that no matter how easy a game is made to be, there will still be demands for it to be even easier.

We joke about modern gamers wanting everything handed to them, but that is actually what's happening here. These aren't movies. They're games. If you want to experience them, play them.

The worst thing that can happen something one enjoys is for it to become popular.

jainiadral · May 2019

zyk wrote: »

It just goes to show that no matter how easy a game is made to be, there will still be demands for it to be even easier.

We joke about modern gamers wanting everything handed to them, but that is actually what's happening here. These aren't movies. They're games. If you want to experience them, play them.

The worst thing that can happen something one enjoys is for it to become popular.

Who is "we," exactly?

zyk · May 2019

jainiadral wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

It just goes to show that no matter how easy a game is made to be, there will still be demands for it to be even easier.

We joke about modern gamers wanting everything handed to them, but that is actually what's happening here. These aren't movies. They're games. If you want to experience them, play them.

The worst thing that can happen something one enjoys is for it to become popular.

Who is "we," exactly?

Basically everyone I still know who I used to play online games with and every gamer I respect today. I know there are older players who want games to slow down with them as they age, but fortunately none of my peers are among them.

jainiadral · May 2019

zyk wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

It just goes to show that no matter how easy a game is made to be, there will still be demands for it to be even easier.

We joke about modern gamers wanting everything handed to them, but that is actually what's happening here. These aren't movies. They're games. If you want to experience them, play them.

The worst thing that can happen something one enjoys is for it to become popular.

Who is "we," exactly?

Basically everyone I still know who I used to play online games with and every gamer I respect today. I know there are older players who want games to slow down with them as they age, but fortunately none of my peers are among them.

I see. So you're kind of proving the OP's point in a backward way.

richo262 · May 2019

There is no locked away endgame, unless you do not own the chapter/dlc.

You can experience all zones at any level, all zones scale.

Regarding Trials. I'm CP1000+ and I often, as tank, start trials in Crag, mostly normal, and always add CP~300 in it when it is normal. I don't care if the odd CP160+ joins. I do not let sub CP160 in, but that is for their benefit really, the items they get will be garbage, waste of their time, and might risk a failed run.

Once you hit CP300, and once you have a grasp on your skill rotation (a player with terrible items but good rotation can get a DPS of ~20k) you can play any vet dungeon (DLC Dungeons are hard, but it is mostly knowledge of mechanics that get you through them), and you can play any normal trial quite easily.

No zone is locked for you at any stage of the game if you own it, no normal grade trial is locked for you either, it is recommended you be at least CP160, and develop your skills to attain ~20k dps on a dummy by reviewing good skill loadouts for your character. Once you achieve that, the 'amnesty week' you seek will be eternal.

MattT1988 · May 2019

End game IS open to everybody, it’s just people aren’t willing to put the effort in to get there. Fix up your build, sort out your gear and rotation. Join a trials guild or start your own group and go for it. End game shouldn’t be for people who aren’t willing to put in the effort to rise to the challenge. It really isn’t that hard to get into end game in this game.

zyk · May 2019

jainiadral wrote: »

I see. So you're kind of proving the OP's point in a backward way.

How so? I don't deny there's an audience for their suggestion. However, I think it's bad for the game. It would certainly be a win for the growing interactive media audience who think they're into games.

We've seen this before. It's the same process that turned The Learning Channel into TLC.

I fully expect ZOS to continue marginalizing the game until it can't be called one anymore because there will be no challenges left -- except for token hard modes... err, wait...

The business of Television was not primarily that of delivering programming, but rather inducing an audience to watch hours of advertisements and, frequently, directly selling useless, overpriced and ultimately valueless "collectors items" and other limited time offers. This audience now plays games like ESO.

If I sound jaded, it's because I am. ZOS sold me on a game that they have largely failed to deliver. Of course the audience that is supplanting the one I am part of is largely unapologetic. They haven't apologized for Baywatch yet either.

Iluvrien · May 2019

zyk wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

I see. So you're kind of proving the OP's point in a backward way.

How so? I don't deny there's an audience for their suggestion. However, I think it's bad for the game. It would certainly be a win for the growing interactive media audience who think they're into games.

We've seen this before. It's the same process that turned The Learning Channel into TLC.

I fully expect ZOS to continue marginalizing the game until it can't be called one anymore because there will be no challenges left -- except for token hard modes... err, wait...

The business of Television was not primarily that of delivering programming, but rather inducing an audience to watch hours of advertisements and, frequently, directly selling useless, overpriced and ultimately valueless "collectors items" and other limited time offers. This audience now plays games like ESO.

If I sound jaded, it's because I am. ZOS sold me on a game that they have largely failed to deliver. Of course the audience that is supplanting the one I am part of is largely unapologetic. They haven't apologized for Baywatch yet either.

What the actual filibuster did I just read...

You are gatekeeping on the basis of massive generalizations and a slippery slope argument. Really?!

I’m against this mount being in the crown store because I don’t believe there should be a crown store at all... but this I’m-more-gamer-than-thou argument is worse than fallacious. It actually precludes further debate.

Daedric_NB_187 · May 2019

I'm still trying to understand how you feel you are locked out of end game content? The only thing stopping you from going in there is you. There are plenty of LFG in Craglorn for trials and dungeons. Most of them for normal which is very easy to pug.

So without some details, I'm lost on this request.

zyk · May 2019

Iluvrien wrote: »

I’m against this mount being in the crown store because I don’t believe there should be a crown store at all... but this I’m-more-gamer-than-thou argument is worse than fallacious. It actually precludes further debate.

There are certainly tiers of gamer yes. But that's not relevant here at all.

The distinction I am making is between someone who enjoys gaming and someone who does not. I think that to credibly argue one enjoys games, they must at least learn the rules and play according to them. Asking for a free pass -- which this thread is about -- is the antithesis of gaming.

ESO is not a difficult game. To have success, one only needs to learn the rules. Even its rules and complexities can largely be avoided just by working with others and following basic instructions. That's not a high bar.

bmnoble · May 2019

Nothing really stopping players from joining in end game content.

Just a matter of confidence/finding a group/and interest in the content.

I know a few max level players who have never set foot in a group dungeon let alone trials, they play the game for the overland content and story quests.

Some people are just not interested in playing with others or don't consider harder content to be fun.

When it comes to group content, I play mostly normal dungeons the occasional normal trial if one of the guilds I am in needs more players etc. Only time I bother with Vet dungeons is if I or a friend/guild member is after a monster helm.

As for skins/dyes/titles/achievements, those don't motivate me in the slightest to play harder content, if I get one great but never bothered working for them, just played the content.

But for the most part I play the game solo the way I want.

NupidStoob · May 2019

Accessibility really is the issue not the difficulty. You can totally do all normal trials on meme builds in pug groups as long as you have a few people that know what needs to be done

New players don't know which zones to go to for trial LFG (on pc usually craglorn and obviously not at 4 AM).

Hopefully the guildfinder will help a lot of these issues. Many guilds run open casual trials where everyone can join that wants to.

FakeFox · May 2019

You can experience all the Quests, Lore, Landscape, etc. on normal and please don't tell me normal is too hard.

Iluvrien · May 2019

zyk wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

I’m against this mount being in the crown store because I don’t believe there should be a crown store at all... but this I’m-more-gamer-than-thou argument is worse than fallacious. It actually precludes further debate.

There are certainly tiers of gamer yes. But that's not relevant here at all.

The distinction I am making is between someone who enjoys gaming and someone who does not. I think that to credibly argue one enjoys games, they must at least learn the rules and play according to them. Asking for a free pass -- which this thread is about -- is the antithesis of gaming.

ESO is not a difficult game. To have success, one only needs to learn the rules. Even its rules and complexities can largely be avoided just by working with others and following basic instructions. That's not a high bar.

Your "tiers of gamer" absolutely is relevant here. You are applying it to construct your argument. The lowest tier you are describing is one that you seem to define as not really a gamer.

Who are you to decide if another player has learned the rules of ESO or not? Better question, who are you to decide what those rules are in the first place? That other people don't play according to the rules as defined by you is about you. Not them.

There are as many ways to play ESO as there are people to play it.

A free pass you say... a free pass to what? To the titles? Skins? Loot? Mounts? The sense of accomplishment from beating the hardest content in the game? The sense of camaraderie from being in a good group with friends?

Let's not resort to generalizations to argue against a specific suggestion. What specific harm would be done by allowing people to explore the locations and lore that are currently part of exclusively endgame content for one week out the year?

MikaHR · May 2019

zyk wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

It just goes to show that no matter how easy a game is made to be, there will still be demands for it to be even easier.

We joke about modern gamers wanting everything handed to them, but that is actually what's happening here. These aren't movies. They're games. If you want to experience them, play them.

The worst thing that can happen something one enjoys is for it to become popular.

Who is "we," exactly?

Basically everyone I still know who I used to play online games with and every gamer I respect today. I know there are older players who want games to slow down with them as they age, but fortunately none of my peers are among them.

So a whole lot of 2 of you.

There was a game made just and specifically for you...it was called Wildstar...and its dead now.

So your "respected gamerz" couldnt even keep smaller game alive for a year (before it went F2P and started advertsing how its made more "solo firendly").

So go play Wildstar and join the rest of your glorious "tier of gamerz"! ooops

rumple9 · May 2019

You mean fill everyone's bags so they can spend the week on inventory management - because that's endgame

zyk · May 2019

Iluvrien wrote: »

Your "tiers of gamer" absolutely is relevant here. You are applying it to construct your argument. The lowest tier you are describing is one that you seem to define as not really a gamer.

If I don't consider them to be gamers, then obviously they don't have a place in a tier of gamers.

Who are you to decide if another player has learned the rules of ESO or not? Better question, who are you to decide what those rules are in the first place? That other people don't play according to the rules as defined by you is about you. Not them.

The only person who decides whether they learn the rules or not is the individual player. ESO certainly has rules. Each of its systems are composed of rules. The greater the adherence to the rules, the more powerful a character can be. Some content is designed to require powerful characters designed according to the rules.

The most significant factor to success in ESO is understanding the rules of each system. You can be slow and make mistakes, but you'll be fine as long as you build your character properly and can learn when to dodge/block/cast something at a certain time and not do other things at other times. Almost all of it is 100% predictable. Helpful people can remind you in voice chat.

Overland Tamriel is already a very forgiving place where someone can completely ignore the rules and still be successful. Wear what armor? It doesn't matter. Slot which abilities? It doesn't matter. Etc..

What specific harm would be done by allowing people to explore the locations and lore that are currently part of exclusively endgame content for one week out the year?

Experiencing the deepest parts of Trials is part of the reward for all of the effort that goes into preparing for them. The exclusivity of those moments is part of that. The value of those experiences is reduced by "giving them away" -- in terms of time and effort -- and demotivates players from ever putting in the time and effort to learn.

Progression content exists for a reason. ESO was designed and sold to be that kind of game. It is a key feature. Allowing anyone to bypass it breaks that feature.

This thread actually makes me sick to my stomach. I can't believe this is actually a serious discussion to some people and not just 3 pages of lol.

MikaHR · May 2019

zyk wrote: »

Progression content exists for a reason. ESO was designed and sold to be that kind of game. It is a key feature. Allowing anyone to bypass it breaks that feature.

Ohhh, reeeeaaaalllly?

I thought your "tier of gamerz" could read....cuz in game description it says something completely different.