How do you all feel about opening up end game to all players? ( for 1 week out of the year)

wishlist14 · May 2019

This is just an idea. I have been thinking about this for many years now. There is a huge misconception that end game has to be all about elitist gamers flexing their godly gamer muscles. I understand that 1% of elitist players are needed to raise a bar so high most average, good players can't reach. I know it's there for a reason, to keep players aspiring to get good and push themselves to work harder. I see how game developers work with this game difficulty model in mind when creating end game content.

My idea would be to have an amnesty week where all eso content would be open for all levels to experience at a more manageable pace...non elitist. I know there are players that I'm sure would love to take a peek at seeing some of the amazing landscapes, quests and all the lore which most only dream about. Why keep some our lore lovers vaulted shut out of eso content. That is extremely shameful to me since the Elder Scrolls games have always essentialy been about its rich lore.

I'm not saying to take anything away from our very hard working end gamers. There would be non of the end game rewards such as ;titles, skins, rare mounts or anything of that nature. This amnesty trials and dungeons week would be about opening Tamriel up to all it's citizens. I'm not sure exactly if it could work. It could even be an event thing.

My reason behind this idea is not just for myself. I do play end game and I know I can get further but I also know some older people who would love to see and experience more of the game they have enjoyed for many years. Not every player will be confident enough or even want to play end game but may want to visit those places that seem forever locked to them

Anyway pls don't hate me Im not here to annoy anyone. I just wanted to play around with this concept and would love your feedback thank you.🌻❤

GeorgeBlack · May 2019

End game isnt hard at all. People need to understand that they need to use the best tools available and do just that.
For eg I used to join vet trials with DW/DW.
Duable but lame.
Then I just slotted the bow and the right abilities.

You dont have to be 1% for eso. PvE is so easy
You just forget about having 27k HP and join as dps.

RogueShark · May 2019

The normal trials are really quite easy. I've seen a few RP groups do tours and such of the trials on normal... taking their time to listen/watch the dialogue, talk to NPCs, etc, and it's always gone over pretty well. It doesn't take much at all to be able to pass on normal trials, and I think if you're looking to enjoy the scenery, the lore, the quest, etc, getting a like-minded group to go through on normal and enjoy it together is the way to go.

You definitely do not have to be anywhere near 'end game elitist' or whatever to do this. ^^

idk · May 2019

All of end game is open to all players every day of the year. There are there two difficulty levels, both normal and vet, that permit pretty much everyone to get clears and see the layouts and fight mechanics.

There is actually a third difficulty level but that affects only the last boss on vet except for the new trial which will affect all boss fights individually.

So yea, Zos opened up all of end game trials to everyone about 3 years ago.

Svenja · May 2019

Just out of interest, what "amazing landscapes and lore" are only available to the endgame players you so kindly call "elitists"?

Everything has a normal mode and one of my social guild regularly runs normal trials with players at any level allowed to join. I have healed normal Halls of Fabrication with a heal partner who was level 16 without CP, and I was on a very suboptimal dragonknight healer build. You do not need to be "1%", you just need a nice bunch of people.

Jeremy · May 2019

wishlist14 wrote: »

This is just an idea. I have been thinking about this for many years now. There is a huge misconception that end game has to be all about elitist gamers flexing their godly gamer muscles. I understand that 1% of elitist players are needed to raise a bar so high most average, good players can't reach. I know it's there for a reason, to keep players aspiring to get good and push themselves to work harder. I see how game developers work with this game difficulty model in mind when creating end game content.

My idea would be to have an amnesty week where all eso content would be open for all levels to experience at a more manageable pace...non elitist. I know there are players that I'm sure would love to take a peek at seeing some of the amazing landscapes, quests and all the lore which most only dream about. Why keep some our lore lovers vaulted shut out of eso content. That is extremely shameful to me since the Elder Scrolls games have always essentialy been about its rich lore.

I'm not saying to take anything away from our very hard working end gamers. There would be non of the end game rewards such as ;titles, skins, rare mounts or anything of that nature. This amnesty trials and dungeons week would be about opening Tamriel up to all it's citizens. I'm not sure exactly if it could work. It could even be an event thing.

My reason behind this idea is not just for myself. I do play end game and I know I can get further but I also know some older people who would love to see and experience more of the game they have enjoyed for many years. Not every player will be confident enough or even want to play end game but may want to visit those places that seem forever locked to them

Anyway pls don't hate me Im not here to annoy anyone. I just wanted to play around with this concept and would love your feedback thank you.🌻❤

They just need to add trials to the activity finder. That would open up the so-called "endgame" to casuals - who either don't have the time or desire to commit themselves to a guild schedule.

Jeremy · May 2019

RogueShark wrote: »

The normal trials are really quite easy. I've seen a few RP groups do tours and such of the trials on normal... taking their time to listen/watch the dialogue, talk to NPCs, etc, and it's always gone over pretty well. It doesn't take much at all to be able to pass on normal trials, and I think if you're looking to enjoy the scenery, the lore, the quest, etc, getting a like-minded group to go through on normal and enjoy it together is the way to go.

You definitely do not have to be anywhere near 'end game elitist' or whatever to do this. ^^

They are. Veteran DLC content via the activity finder is a lot more difficult.

I believe it's more of an access problem regarding trials instead of a difficulty issue.

zyk · May 2019

How about one week a year, I'm the NBA champion and paid like Kevin Durant?

When I started playing MMOs in the form of text based MUDs, particularly Diku, I thought it was amazingly cool that there was this incredibly high ceiling that existed for enthusiasts. It helped to create the illusion of a vast virtual world, with amazing things I could only dream of.... unless I chose to put the work in.

Which I didn't do, because it wasn't my thing. That content was designed for a different kind of player.

So I think this idea is terrible. Not only to the players who put the effort into learning the game well enough to explore more challenging locations, but also to those who would dream of it and be inspired to work with others to learn how to do it.

Further, your goal is an impossible one. By removing the challenge, you remove all value existing in those environment has. If we could all be NBA champions, no one would care about it, so why would we want to be that?

Svenja · May 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

RogueShark wrote: »

The normal trials are really quite easy. I've seen a few RP groups do tours and such of the trials on normal... taking their time to listen/watch the dialogue, talk to NPCs, etc, and it's always gone over pretty well. It doesn't take much at all to be able to pass on normal trials, and I think if you're looking to enjoy the scenery, the lore, the quest, etc, getting a like-minded group to go through on normal and enjoy it together is the way to go.

You definitely do not have to be anywhere near 'end game elitist' or whatever to do this. ^^

They are. Veteran DLC content via the activity finder is a lot more difficult.

I believe it's more of an access problem regarding trials instead of a difficulty issue.

But then WHY do veteran? The dungeon looks the same on normal difficulty, the quest is identical, even the mechanics of bosses look the same, they just aren't as deadly as on vet.

commodore64 · May 2019

OP seems to be yet another patronising 'elitist'. 'Look at me'. Top 1%, don't make me laugh.

Jeremy wrote: »

]They just need to add trials to the activity finder. That would open up the so-called "endgame" to casuals - who either don't have the time or desire to commit themselves to a guild schedule.

Agreed, a 'Trial Finder' would be great, IF the dungeon finder ever worked. Imagine the 12-player Ready Check? Some declined, you have been placed at the front of the... *headshot*

nud3_voxel · May 2019

I don't understand. Every trial has a normal and veteran mode? Normal mode is there so that trials can be completed easily by any group of 12 players? I'm very curious, could you elaborate on what is opening the end-game content to all players? It already is from my perspective.

And that 1% is not elitist, but competitive, meaning pushing score and as such optimizing a group for best performance. You do not need that to complete every vet trial hard mode.

aaisoaho · May 2019

Could you open up your idea, please? Right now, I have too many open questions, because the idea seems to be too vague.

There's plenty of content which the playerbase thinks is end game. Different aspecta of game can be considered as such, like: trading (where one end game trader has income of something like 1 million a week), PvP (AvA, Battlegrounds), PvE (vet trials, vet dungeons).

I presume you mean PvE end game, but how would you open it up? Right now, you can go there yourself either solo or with a group, you do not have to be a part of the creme de la creme. I think the only thing that can stop you from wandering deeper into the said instances is the difficulty, but we do have 2 difficulty options, which by the way do not change the story or anything but the difficulty itself. On veteran, you need to be up to standards to be able to progress further, but on normal, the instance is a lot easier.

There is a lot of new player friendly guilds. They tens to help people complete these instances on normal and some might even help you complete them on veteran. Is this the thing you're looking for?

wishlist14 · May 2019

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

End game isnt hard at all. People need to understand that they need to use the best tools available and do just that.
For eg I used to join vet trials with DW/DW.
Duable but lame.
Then I just slotted the bow and the right abilities.

You dont have to be 1% for eso. PvE is so easy
You just forget about having 27k HP and join as dps.

Fair enough.

zyk · May 2019

Another idea:

Let's lower the threshold of genius to an IQ of 50 so we can all experience what it's like to be one.

wishlist14 · May 2019

aaisoaho wrote: »

Could you open up your idea, please? Right now, I have too many open questions, because the idea seems to be too vague.

There's plenty of content which the playerbase thinks is end game. Different aspecta of game can be considered as such, like: trading (where one end game trader has income of something like 1 million a week), PvP (AvA, Battlegrounds), PvE (vet trials, vet dungeons).

I presume you mean PvE end game, but how would you open it up? Right now, you can go there yourself either solo or with a group, you do not have to be a part of the creme de la creme. I think the only thing that can stop you from wandering deeper into the said instances is the difficulty, but we do have 2 difficulty options, which by the way do not change the story or anything but the difficulty itself. On veteran, you need to be up to standards to be able to progress further, but on normal, the instance is a lot easier.

There is a lot of new player friendly guilds. They tens to help people complete these instances on normal and some might even help you complete them on veteran. Is this the thing you're looking for?

Thanks for your constructive reply.

wishlist14 · May 2019

commodore64 wrote: »

OP seems to be yet another patronising 'elitist'. 'Look at me'. Top 1%, don't make me laugh.

Jeremy wrote: »

]They just need to add trials to the activity finder. That would open up the so-called "endgame" to casuals - who either don't have the time or desire to commit themselves to a guild schedule.

Agreed, a 'Trial Finder' would be great, IF the dungeon finder ever worked. Imagine the 12-player Ready Check? Some declined, you have been placed at the front of the... *headshot*

I must he behind on conten cause i cant find groups to do it all. I havent done most trials. Did 1 on vet and a few normals idk maybe im not in right guilds

Svenja · May 2019

I am fine with a trial group finder, I just don't think that would work. Seeing how much the group finder struggles with groups of only 4 people, I don't have hoped for anything that requires more people than that.

If the OP is actually asking for a solo mode for trials where everything has 1 health, I am against that.
If you actually do it "the quester's way" and pick up the trial quest outside of the trial, the quest giver NPC asks you to "gather 11 friends" several times because there is no way you can free his XY on your own. How would oneshotting everything add to the experience of the quest, "Lore" and immersion?

If you talk to a Khajiit named Bakhum at the docks of Hews Bane, he will give you the quest to venture into the Maw of Lorkhaj. His dialogue, when you ask about the location of the temple he wants you to go to:
"High in the mountains, to the south of Do'Krin. The rivers are shallow there, but this one has smuggled in shallower. Sailed I mean!
Bakhum would feel better if he brought some muscle along. You have eleven friends, yes? It will be worth your while!"

And also the starter quest for Halls of Fabrication makes sure to point out that Divayth Fyr wants "about a dozen seasoned adventurers" for help, and he doesn't think your adventure is likely to succeed if you show up with fewer people.

On PC EU, I see groups looking for members for normal trials in zone chat quite often, and as I said, I am in a big social guild who offers "training runs" for players at any level twice a week, players would just need to speak up that they would like to hear the quest and I am 100% sure everyone would agree to a slower run with all NPCs able to finish their dialogue before a fight is started. I think the normal modes are very accessible as they are.

Juhasow · May 2019

Endgame is opened 24/7. You just need to fit in the doors. And normal modes are for everyone.

idk · May 2019

zyk wrote: »

How about one week a year, I'm the NBA champion and paid like Kevin Durant?

When I started playing MMOs in the form of text based MUDs, particularly Diku, I thought it was amazingly cool that there was this incredibly high ceiling that existed for enthusiasts. It helped to create the illusion of a vast virtual world, with amazing things I could only dream of.... unless I chose to put the work in.

Which I didn't do, because it wasn't my thing. That content was designed for a different kind of player.

So I think this idea is terrible. Not only to the players who put the effort into learning the game well enough to explore more challenging locations, but also to those who would dream of it and be inspired to work with others to learn how to do it.

Further, your goal is an impossible one. By removing the challenge, you remove all value existing in those environment has. If we could all be NBA champions, no one would care about it, so why would we want to be that?

lol

But seriously, very good points. It puts it all into perspective.

Iluvrien · May 2019

zyk wrote: »

How about one week a year, I'm the NBA champion and paid like Kevin Durant?

When I started playing MMOs in the form of text based MUDs, particularly Diku, I thought it was amazingly cool that there was this incredibly high ceiling that existed for enthusiasts. It helped to create the illusion of a vast virtual world, with amazing things I could only dream of.... unless I chose to put the work in.

Which I didn't do, because it wasn't my thing. That content was designed for a different kind of player.

So I think this idea is terrible. Not only to the players who put the effort into learning the game well enough to explore more challenging locations, but also to those who would dream of it and be inspired to work with others to learn how to do it.

Further, your goal is an impossible one. By removing the challenge, you remove all value existing in those environment has. If we could all be NBA champions, no one would care about it, so why would we want to be that?

As a previous fellow MUD player (LPMud not Diku) I know what you mean.

However, to use your analogy, I don’t think the OP is asking to become NBA champion... but to be allowed to explore the court where the NBA champions play.

Thoragaal · May 2019

wishlist14 wrote: »

This is just an idea. I have been thinking about this for many years now. There is a huge misconception that end game has to be all about elitist gamers flexing their godly gamer muscles. I understand that 1% of elitist players are needed to raise a bar so high most average, good players can't reach. I know it's there for a reason, to keep players aspiring to get good and push themselves to work harder. I see how game developers work with this game difficulty model in mind when creating end game content.

My idea would be to have an amnesty week where all eso content would be open for all levels to experience at a more manageable pace...non elitist. I know there are players that I'm sure would love to take a peek at seeing some of the amazing landscapes, quests and all the lore which most only dream about. Why keep some our lore lovers vaulted shut out of eso content. That is extremely shameful to me since the Elder Scrolls games have always essentialy been about its rich lore.

I'm not saying to take anything away from our very hard working end gamers. There would be non of the end game rewards such as ;titles, skins, rare mounts or anything of that nature. This amnesty trials and dungeons week would be about opening Tamriel up to all it's citizens. I'm not sure exactly if it could work. It could even be an event thing.

My reason behind this idea is not just for myself. I do play end game and I know I can get further but I also know some older people who would love to see and experience more of the game they have enjoyed for many years. Not every player will be confident enough or even want to play end game but may want to visit those places that seem forever locked to them

Anyway pls don't hate me Im not here to annoy anyone. I just wanted to play around with this concept and would love your feedback thank you.🌻❤

I honestly don't even know what you're asking for.
"Open up" how? Just give away DLC's for free to people so they can enter the place? Make people immortal so they can finish the trial? Make mobs and bosses get killed by one ability only? Remove all mobs/bosses so that some people can roam around and explore the areas for themselves solo?
What do you mean "opening up"?

zyk · May 2019

Iluvrien wrote: »

However, to use your analogy, I don’t think the OP is asking to become NBA champion... but to be allowed to explore the court where the NBA champions play.

In this case, the court is also the prize.

The text-based MUD content that inspired me was composed of only words. They weren't necessarily well-written or interesting. But they represented the end of a journey involving challenges and probably sacrifices.

They gave the participants the same chills felt by the first Everquest players to kill Lord Nagafen. Looking at screenshots and videos now, Nagafen isn't much of a character. The technology used to create him is very primitive now.

ESO is full of beautiful content. A Trial could just as easily be a Tutorial level and the tutorial could just as easily be a trial.

The background is actually irrelevant. "Being there" is and always has been more than the text or the pixels. So you can't give that to someone merely by showing them what it looks like. By trying, you would just make the reward less sweet for those who take the journey.

To answer your question though, yes, playing basketball on the parquet of Boston Garden would be less special if anyone could just go there and do it. If you brought an actual fan there now, they would probably kiss it; something they certainly wouldn't be inspired to do if anyone could go there.

zaria · May 2019

Normal craglorn trials are pugged all the time and fails here are rare, same with asylum and cloudrest.
MoL is a bit harder and has more challenging mechanics so here you want to be on voice the first times
HoF is far the hardest and not very pugable even on normal.

Lots of social guilds run trials many times the week.

mocap · May 2019

you probably need to wait that Guild "already broken? Finder " tool to find RP guild who do RP dungeon and trials, so you can read/listen dialogs.

If you mean "make trials soloable for level 15/CP 0 player" then it will never happen.

Runkorko · May 2019

Endgame player dont mean elitist one. My advice is to google Elitist.
Endgame is open fore everyone even now. You dont need 70-100k dps to beat it. You need a brain and a 30k dps.
By brain i mean to know the mechanics- there are plenty of youtube guides.

And no, wont happen.

Runkorko · May 2019

Svenja wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

RogueShark wrote: »

The normal trials are really quite easy. I've seen a few RP groups do tours and such of the trials on normal... taking their time to listen/watch the dialogue, talk to NPCs, etc, and it's always gone over pretty well. It doesn't take much at all to be able to pass on normal trials, and I think if you're looking to enjoy the scenery, the lore, the quest, etc, getting a like-minded group to go through on normal and enjoy it together is the way to go.

You definitely do not have to be anywhere near 'end game elitist' or whatever to do this. ^^

They are. Veteran DLC content via the activity finder is a lot more difficult.

I believe it's more of an access problem regarding trials instead of a difficulty issue.

But then WHY do veteran? The dungeon looks the same on normal difficulty, the quest is identical, even the mechanics of bosses look the same, they just aren't as deadly as on vet.

Monster sets and for fun.

idk · May 2019

Iluvrien wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

How about one week a year, I'm the NBA champion and paid like Kevin Durant?

When I started playing MMOs in the form of text based MUDs, particularly Diku, I thought it was amazingly cool that there was this incredibly high ceiling that existed for enthusiasts. It helped to create the illusion of a vast virtual world, with amazing things I could only dream of.... unless I chose to put the work in.

Which I didn't do, because it wasn't my thing. That content was designed for a different kind of player.

So I think this idea is terrible. Not only to the players who put the effort into learning the game well enough to explore more challenging locations, but also to those who would dream of it and be inspired to work with others to learn how to do it.

Further, your goal is an impossible one. By removing the challenge, you remove all value existing in those environment has. If we could all be NBA champions, no one would care about it, so why would we want to be that?

As a previous fellow MUD player (LPMud not Diku) I know what you mean.

However, to use your analogy, I don’t think the OP is asking to become NBA champion... but to be allowed to explore the court where the NBA champions play.

But that is what normal trials are for. They are significantly easier than vet and designed for the average player.

Solid_Metal · May 2019

if you just want to participate on End Game content, its not that hard really, just hit CP160 and look for pug normal-trial group, done and done

vesselwiththepestle · May 2019

wishlist14 wrote: »

My idea would be to have an amnesty week where all eso content would be open for all levels to experience at a more manageable pace...non elitist. I know there are players that I'm sure would love to take a peek at seeing some of the amazing landscapes, quests and all the lore which most only dream about. Why keep some our lore lovers vaulted shut out of eso content. That is extremely shameful to me since the Elder Scrolls games have always essentialy been about its rich lore.

I don't understand. Trials don't require a certain level, even my TRADING guild offers learning trial groups where players without CP are allowed!

Jaimeh · May 2019

wishlist14 wrote: »

My idea would be to have an amnesty week where all eso content would be open for all levels to experience at a more manageable pace...non elitist. I know there are players that I'm sure would love to take a peek at seeing some of the amazing landscapes, quests and all the lore which most only dream about. Why keep some our lore lovers vaulted shut out of eso content. That is extremely shameful to me since the Elder Scrolls games have always essentialy been about its rich lore.

Such a thing is already possible with normal mode for all dungeons and trials, like others mentioned above, in the Craglorn zone especially there are always recruitments for normal trials, and there are no requirements (well, except being 160CP for trading gear purposes). As for dungeons, there are dedicated guilds that do story-mode runs for normal dungeons, including DLC, so that anyone can participate and enjoy the lore.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · May 2019

There is a huge misconception that end Vet game is for the 1% which is not, as long as you understand the mechanics then all is fine, even gear sets and skills are not required, the be all and end all is mechanics