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Necromancer: Repeating Mistakes with the Warden
Vercingetorix
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I wanted to give players a heads-up on what to expect from the Necromancer class since ZoS has effectively finished the PTS. I'm going to be blunt: the class sucks as much as warden does when it comes to magicka, however unlike the warden that could at least tank or heal effectively, the Necromancer fails to do either reliably. What we're left with is an incomplete class that has had NO improvements at ALL with regards to its magicka toolkit for over a month on the PTS. Focus was instead shifted on other classes and ignoring the brand new class that the chapter was supposed to be about in the first place.
When creating the Necromancer, they pretty much copied over the warden's class structure but left in all of the mistakes. Skull is just as clunky as Bird, for example. Magicka clearly wasn't even considered when they designed this class which is TERRIBLE because a Necromancer is a caster first and foremost. I don't know what happened over in their studio but they seem to have only pooled feedback from players who primarily use stamina. Magicka players would have immediately called out ZoS on the myriad of issues plaguing the magicka variant when they were designing the class.
So, what's wrong with the Necromancer you might ask? Here's a quick rundown:
- The sustain of the Necromancer is terrible.
Mystic Siphon is a net loss in magicka and requires clunky corpse targeting to even use in the first place. Boss fights without adds means your sustain passive does nothing for you.
- The corpse consumption mechanic on cast skills is still buggy and doesn't fire off properly half the time.
For example, the Tether and Siphon abilities in the toolkit are situational at best because of tying those abilities to a corpse's location instead of simply consuming a nearby corpse to directly cast the spell where you want it. The end result is a class with two essential abilities being a hassle to even fire off properly (one of which is a strong DoT for DPS)
- Necromancer lacks a class execute and has a passive that pretends to be an execute, relying on RNG to be of any benefit.
The worst part is this passive exists and yet Necromancers have an existing skill that could thematically work as an execute (Scythe).
- Necromancer lacks the standard Major Sorcery/Brutality buff skill for the class.
- Necromancer has the annoying weave disruption with the spammable skull ability, just like the Warden's bird.
- Necromancer abilities have too many varying durations that make rotations overly complicated and a chore to manage.
It seems you want the Necromancer to lean heavily on DoT damage which is fine, but too many different durations on abilities has a negative effect on maintaining a proper rotation.
- The crippling limit on Beckoning Armor's pull effect makes it nearly useless.
If ZoS lowered the cooldown to 1.5 seconds, it might be usable and give the Necromancer some form of unique identity as a tank. The player still has to manually taunt the pulled mob so I don't understand why the cooldown was set so high. An enemy pulled by armor in PvP can be CC-immune to prevent abuse of the ability. If you still don't like being pulled, then develop a strategy to punish the opponent for pulling you into melee range - it goes both ways, the Necromancer is just as exposed as you are at close range, so capitalize on it.
The two major corpse abilities of the Necromancer Siphon and Tether could be fixed quickly:
The PTS is over and ZoS is shipping an expansion with an incomplete class - AGAIN.
When creating the Necromancer, they pretty much copied over the warden's class structure but left in all of the mistakes. Skull is just as clunky as Bird, for example. Magicka clearly wasn't even considered when they designed this class which is TERRIBLE because a Necromancer is a caster first and foremost. I don't know what happened over in their studio but they seem to have only pooled feedback from players who primarily use stamina. Magicka players would have immediately called out ZoS on the myriad of issues plaguing the magicka variant when they were designing the class.
So, what's wrong with the Necromancer you might ask? Here's a quick rundown:
- The sustain of the Necromancer is terrible.
Mystic Siphon is a net loss in magicka and requires clunky corpse targeting to even use in the first place. Boss fights without adds means your sustain passive does nothing for you.
- The corpse consumption mechanic on cast skills is still buggy and doesn't fire off properly half the time.
For example, the Tether and Siphon abilities in the toolkit are situational at best because of tying those abilities to a corpse's location instead of simply consuming a nearby corpse to directly cast the spell where you want it. The end result is a class with two essential abilities being a hassle to even fire off properly (one of which is a strong DoT for DPS)
- Necromancer lacks a class execute and has a passive that pretends to be an execute, relying on RNG to be of any benefit.
The worst part is this passive exists and yet Necromancers have an existing skill that could thematically work as an execute (Scythe).
- Necromancer lacks the standard Major Sorcery/Brutality buff skill for the class.
- Necromancer has the annoying weave disruption with the spammable skull ability, just like the Warden's bird.
- Necromancer abilities have too many varying durations that make rotations overly complicated and a chore to manage.
It seems you want the Necromancer to lean heavily on DoT damage which is fine, but too many different durations on abilities has a negative effect on maintaining a proper rotation.
- The crippling limit on Beckoning Armor's pull effect makes it nearly useless.
If ZoS lowered the cooldown to 1.5 seconds, it might be usable and give the Necromancer some form of unique identity as a tank. The player still has to manually taunt the pulled mob so I don't understand why the cooldown was set so high. An enemy pulled by armor in PvP can be CC-immune to prevent abuse of the ability. If you still don't like being pulled, then develop a strategy to punish the opponent for pulling you into melee range - it goes both ways, the Necromancer is just as exposed as you are at close range, so capitalize on it.
The two major corpse abilities of the Necromancer Siphon and Tether could be fixed quickly:
If Siphon was based on simply consuming a nearby corpse as an additional cost and then allowing you to choose your target for the effect, the ability would actually be pretty good. Similar to Zaan or Malubeth, a beam would form between you and the target, dealing damage to them and those who cross the beam. While it holds, you'd gain magicka or the stamina morph would cause the target to have an explosion (like Daedric Curse).
As for Tether and its morphs, you could consume a corpse as an additional cost and then you simply get the effects applied to you for the duration. Simple and still thematic in line with a Necromancer without the clunky corpse-aim-on-the-ground limitation that currently exists. At the end of the day, manually targeting a corpse on the ground is clunky because it conflicts with how ESO in combat is handled. In both PvE and PvP, setting up shop with corpses on the ground is too damn slow and it adds needless micro-management to a rotation.
As for Tether and its morphs, you could consume a corpse as an additional cost and then you simply get the effects applied to you for the duration. Simple and still thematic in line with a Necromancer without the clunky corpse-aim-on-the-ground limitation that currently exists. At the end of the day, manually targeting a corpse on the ground is clunky because it conflicts with how ESO in combat is handled. In both PvE and PvP, setting up shop with corpses on the ground is too damn slow and it adds needless micro-management to a rotation.
The PTS is over and ZoS is shipping an expansion with an incomplete class - AGAIN.
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
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coop500✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lovely... and I wanted to make a healer Necromancer...Hoping for more playable races8 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So for those of us who didn't feel there were all these mistakes made with the Warden, our take-away message from this should be... what?8 -
Ahlteffour✭✭✭Minus a couple sustain issues, the class seems like it was designed solely around group play. Will it stand on it's own? Maybe, maybe not. But people who play them well should be nice support characters.
IDK. Maybe people should be happy that they got a necromancer at all instead of picking everything apart because it isn't what they wanted. If what you're saying is that you would rather have nothing than what you got, then play another class.
"Anyone can identify a problem. It takes hard work, dedication, patience and understanding to be a positive part of the solution"6 -
TheRealPotoroo✭✭✭✭✭
✭<sigh>
I have so many stamina characters I really wanted a magcro.
PC NA, PC EU
"Instead of taking the best of the dolmens (predictable rotation), the best of the geysers (scalability based on number of players), and the best of the dragons (map location and health indicators) and adding them together to make a fun and dynamic world event scenario, they gave us....... harrowstorms." https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6850523/#Comment_685052312 -
david_m_18b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »- The corpse consumption mechanic on cast skills is still buggy and doesn't fire off properly half the time.
For example, the Tether and Siphon abilities in the toolkit are situational at best because of tying those abilities to a corpse's location instead of simply consuming a nearby corpse to directly cast the spell where you want it.
- Necromancer lacks a class execute and has a passive that pretends to be an execute, relying on RNG to be of any benefit.
the first one is bad. We shouldn't have to aim for a corps.
The second one isn't an issue on a magicka necro as you should easely hit 100% crit rate on execute phase.7 -
Ahlteffour✭✭✭david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »Vercingetorix wrote: »- The corpse consumption mechanic on cast skills is still buggy and doesn't fire off properly half the time.
For example, the Tether and Siphon abilities in the toolkit are situational at best because of tying those abilities to a corpse's location instead of simply consuming a nearby corpse to directly cast the spell where you want it.
- Necromancer lacks a class execute and has a passive that pretends to be an execute, relying on RNG to be of any benefit.
the first one is bad. We shouldn't have to aim for a corps.
The second one isn't an issue on a magicka necro as you should easely hit 100% crit rate on execute phase.
Honestly, aiming for corpses isn't that hard. Even in very trials or PVP. Getting the tether abilities to hit consistently is a minor issue, but good players can figure it out.
The class isn't going to play itself."Anyone can identify a problem. It takes hard work, dedication, patience and understanding to be a positive part of the solution"1 -
david_m_18b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Ahlteffour wrote: »IDK. Maybe people should be happy that they got a necromancer at all instead of picking everything apart because it isn't what they wanted. If what you're saying is that you would rather have nothing than what you got, then play another class.
So listening to you nothing should ever be upgraded.
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Ahlteffour✭✭✭david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »Ahlteffour wrote: »IDK. Maybe people should be happy that they got a necromancer at all instead of picking everything apart because it isn't what they wanted. If what you're saying is that you would rather have nothing than what you got, then play another class.
So listening to you nothing should ever be upgraded.
What needs an upgrade is subjective. You won't get everything you want, and neither will everyone else.
If not getting 100% of the features you want turns you off of a class, play a different one. Not everyone has your issues.Edited by Ahlteffour on May 14, 2019 5:28PM"Anyone can identify a problem. It takes hard work, dedication, patience and understanding to be a positive part of the solution"1 -
Heelie✭✭✭✭✭As a person with tonnes of experience healing vet trials I can say that necromancer healer, while not in the OP stage it was at week 1, is still among the best healing classes if everything stays as it is now. I would say the Necromancer is for a lot of trials better than any other class. The only thing they dont bring is a unique dps buff.Most OwOrated healer of all time6 -
Ahlteffour✭✭✭As a person with tonnes of experience healing vet trials I can say that necromancer healer, while not in the OP stage it was at week 1, is still among the best healing classes if everything stays as it is now. I would say the Necromancer is for a lot of trials better than any other class. The only thing they dont bring is a unique dps buff.
I think this class gives a unique look at how to build a character. Sets, abilities and traits. I got a bad ass necro healer doing vet sunspire. I was impressed!"Anyone can identify a problem. It takes hard work, dedication, patience and understanding to be a positive part of the solution"0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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The only hard solo gameplay is vMA and yes soloing group content.Ahlteffour wrote: »Minus a couple sustain issues, the class seems like it was designed solely around group play. Will it stand on it's own? Maybe, maybe not. But people who play them well should be nice support characters.
IDK. Maybe people should be happy that they got a necromancer at all instead of picking everything apart because it isn't what they wanted. If what you're saying is that you would rather have nothing than what you got, then play another class.
Know stamina necro would be good with all the stamina morphs, but as I read magic worked well to. Both was hard to optimize on dummies because the corpse mechanic. Note do not loot trash in dungeons until boss is down.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.2 -
Ahlteffour✭✭✭
The only hard solo gameplay is vMA and yes soloing group content.Ahlteffour wrote: »Minus a couple sustain issues, the class seems like it was designed solely around group play. Will it stand on it's own? Maybe, maybe not. But people who play them well should be nice support characters.
IDK. Maybe people should be happy that they got a necromancer at all instead of picking everything apart because it isn't what they wanted. If what you're saying is that you would rather have nothing than what you got, then play another class.
Know stamina necro would be good with all the stamina morphs, but as I read magic worked well to. Both was hard to optimize on dummies because the corpse mechanic. Note do not loot trash in dungeons until boss is down.
Haha good point. Haven't run vMA on a necro yet. Look forward to making a build that can get me through it."Anyone can identify a problem. It takes hard work, dedication, patience and understanding to be a positive part of the solution"0 -
Heelie✭✭✭✭✭Ahlteffour wrote: »
I think this class gives a unique look at how to build a character. Sets, abilities and traits. I got a bad ass necro healer doing vet sunspire. I was impressed!
They build very much like all the other healers, I did a youtube video going through the class at the start of the patch poiting out a few mistakes that ZOS actually fixed later on, what they are mostly unique for is having tonnes of stamina regen and two unique very effective synergies that are not tied to ultimates or any other proc mechanic. The pet is decent as well. Healers unfortunatly are very much the same across classes, but necromancer as they are right now outclass sorcerer healers by quite a lot. Right now a necromancer is viable in sunspire but it really depends on group composition I did the two side boss HM's on Necro but haven't taken it to the last boss.Most OwOrated healer of all time3 -
Ahlteffour✭✭✭Ahlteffour wrote: »
I think this class gives a unique look at how to build a character. Sets, abilities and traits. I got a bad ass necro healer doing vet sunspire. I was impressed!
They build very much like all the other healers, I did a youtube video going through the class at the start of the patch poiting out a few mistakes that ZOS actually fixed later on, what they are mostly unique for is having tonnes of stamina regen and two unique very effective synergies that are not tied to ultimates or any other proc mechanic. The pet is decent as well. Healers unfortunatly are very much the same across classes, but necromancer as they are right now outclass sorcerer healers by quite a lot. Right now a necromancer is viable in sunspire but it really depends on group composition I did the two side boss HM's on Necro but haven't taken it to the last boss.
Good to know. I am mostly a dps, so I have been experimenting with different sets to increase single target dps since necro is so aoe focused. What sets would you recommend for a necro trial healer? As main heals"Anyone can identify a problem. It takes hard work, dedication, patience and understanding to be a positive part of the solution"0 -
Peekachu99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It’s honestly not that interesting of a class—after four weeks of testing. Especially the Magicka version. I’ll play it, but I guarantee I’ll be back to my Sorc/ Templar/ Magden tanks in a month.
No class shield, average sustain, no real pressure, horrid mobility, ***-poor mitigation (major protection for 2s is pointless and requires a corpse). Skills are also pretty expensive to boot.
It looks great on paper, but performs half as good as it looks. Warden 2.0 for sure.7 -
david_m_18b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Peekachu99 wrote: », horrid mobility
Thats probably the point that will keep me on my magsorc and my stamNB. But well, not everyone can have the same mobility.2 -
Ahlteffour✭✭✭Peekachu99 wrote: »It’s honestly not that interesting of a class—after four weeks of testing. Especially the Magicka version. I’ll play it, but I guarantee I’ll be back to my Sorc/ Templar/ Magden tanks in a month.
No class shield, average sustain, no real pressure, horrid mobility, ***-poor mitigation (major protection for 2s is pointless and requires a corpse). Skills are also pretty expensive to boot.
It looks great on paper, but performs half as good as it looks. Warden 2.0 for sure.
Bummer. Sorry you don't like it. Have fun on your other chars though.
"Anyone can identify a problem. It takes hard work, dedication, patience and understanding to be a positive part of the solution"1 -
darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭I find the "weave disrupting skulls" a bonus.
Some of the tether problems OP is having are fixable bugs but some is good ol' l2p. If you can aim a lightning splash you can aim a tether.
The skills all being different durations shouldn't be a problem because you should be doing a dynamic duration.
Necromancer healers are fully endgame viable unlike nightblade or dragonknight healers. They're also BIS for progression runs.
Only problem with necromancer tank is not having engulfing flames.
The real laugh here is OP missed the main problem with magcro DPS which is that they're not viable at range because of the way Blast Bones work. If Zos' fixed that and known bugs they'd be in a perfectly fine spot.Edited by darkblue5 on May 14, 2019 6:38PM3 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭.Necromancer lacks the standard Major Sorcery/Brutality buff skill for the class.
Standard? Templars would like a word with you.6 -
Icy_Waffles✭✭✭✭✭
✭I hate that you have to aim for corpses. Your skills should grey out when not available and just auto connect. Like the Templar skill... this is such an annoying mechanic when things get crazy.5 -
Icy_Waffles✭✭✭✭✭
✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »
Yeah except next patch nerfs their snares a lot and allows their AOE burst to be blockable...1 -
StormeReigns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Meh. Opinions. Have been doing fine on the PTS in solo and group content.
In the end, what may be an issue for one, may not be an issue for another.5 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Icy_Waffles wrote: »SidraWillowsky wrote: »
Yeah except next patch nerfs their snares a lot and allows their AOE burst to be blockable...
Oh fantastic! They made them useless again
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Waylander07✭✭✭✭Zos for some reason has got it in for magic builds apart from the sorc class which is very strong in pvp.2
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Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: ».Necromancer lacks the standard Major Sorcery/Brutality buff skill for the class.
Standard? Templars would like a word with you.
Yes, Templars lack the buff as well and yes, it sucks. You at least get Minor Sorcery which stacks with the Major buff. Necromancers don't get anything at all to work with in this regard.“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: ».Necromancer lacks the standard Major Sorcery/Brutality buff skill for the class.
Standard? Templars would like a word with you.
Yes, Templars lack the buff as well and yes, it sucks. You at least get Minor Sorcery which stacks with the Major buff. Necromancers don't get anything at all to work with in this regard.
I really don't care about the major buffs, you get them from pots anyways.
Really? Nothing at all? Major vulnerability mean anything to you?3
