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Pve and pvp need separate balancing
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Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Facefister wrote: »
i suspect this is probably the actual reason, but they'd never admit to it.2 -
Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭ApostateHobo wrote: »Zos I know that for some reason you guys want to balance them at the same time, but this just isn't working out very well. Every update skills and occasionally sets are ruined for both groups of players because of it. What's fine in pve might be overperforming in pvp, something that's great for pvp might be completely useless for pve, etc. A good example is the recent proposed change to incap strike with it applying silence, very strong in pvp but pretty much useless pve wise. If we don't separate them we'll just continue going in circles of nerfing things then buffing them again in some odd way over and over. This isn't ever going to result in anything remotely balanced. All it's done so far is make a mess of many skills.
Pve and pvp balancing needs to be done separately.
The constant change to pve due to concerns for pvp are the main reason my guild and myself have unsubbed.3 -
TheRealPotoroo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Facefister wrote: »
No. The first stage, a dressing room, exists already on PC in addon form. It's not as good as the real thing should be since it can't do things like swap CP or skills without cost but there is no technical reason ZOS couldn't do it properly. Once that's done it's a straight forward matter of toggling set attributes on or off depending on which mode the character is in.PC NA, PC EU
"Instead of taking the best of the dolmens (predictable rotation), the best of the geysers (scalability based on number of players), and the best of the dragons (map location and health indicators) and adding them together to make a fun and dynamic world event scenario, they gave us....... harrowstorms." https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6850523/#Comment_68505232 -
Sahidom✭✭✭✭A devil's advocate perspective agrees with balancing the game around content that directly interacts with other players. When these elements e.g. class skills, weapon skills, gear sets, and the in-nuances behind the scaling power do become leveled (or base-lined) THAN the developers can revisit PVE content difficulty.
In the end, optimistically the PVE player-base will benefit. I agree that no other game has successfully balanced PVP when the game has been live for several years and content evolved the game. Yet, they all attempt.
In retrospection, the challenge factor of the original launch and One Tamriel failed to address many balance issues when characters began parsing 50k+ that simply demolishes overland, delve, dungeon and trial group parsing these figures. Even other games needed to stack-crunch the numbers to retain game-play challenge.
I don't know whether ZOS, and the developers, are attempting to balance the skills used in both PVP and PVE content to the lowest denominator, in context to skill performance and player-driven mechanics (i.e. crowd control).0 -
randomkeyhits✭✭✭✭✭Does anyone know of any game where PvE and PvP shared balance was successful?
I'm afraid that I don't.
I've seen games that have struggled and caused a massive amount of frustration and a few brave ones which acknowledged that it simply didn't work and then separate out the two modes, usually to a lot of player appreciation.
My only worry is that ZOS seems to be a company that can only move forwards, can't really acknowledge when its wrong and correct a bad situation. I'd be happier if at times they did say "this doesn't work, we'll revert it and think of something better"Edited by randomkeyhits on May 14, 2019 3:00PMEU PS42 -
therift✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PvE needs heavy nerfs across the board. If NPCs could post on the Forums, they'd all agree. 50k dummy parses are ridiculously high, which is why vet content is full of punishing mechanics, which sets ever-increasing thresholds for acceptance in endgame groups, which in turn drives newer players away from the game.
#nerfpve. #savedungeonbosses
Hyperbole from another viewpoint.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes, time and again players have stated that balancing separately would be better. ZOS has and will continue to lose player base over this.
Doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results has been described as the definition of insanity.
What makes you think they are expecting different results?
Seriously speaking, ESO has lost well over half of the PvP population long ago and that was from the more ardent players. They did not leave for this reason. PC used to fill two 90 day campaigns better than we fill one campaign today and that was with much higher pop locks.
Yes, they left because Zos manages this game poorly due to Matt Firror's fabulous leadership leading to poor server performance and lousy decisions concerning Cyrodill having nothing to do with the topic in this thread.
Edit: I am not suggesting Zos should not do anything differently. Heck, I think Matt has done a poor job leading the team at Zos since before the game launched. However, I do get their point about having skills perform similarly in PvP and PvE. Doing otherwise means they are looking at twice the number of skills they are now and they cannot even handle that.
Edited by idk on May 14, 2019 8:09PM2 -
ghastley✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Before you can balance PvE and PvP separately, you have to separate them. No PvP'ing in PvE zones and vice-versa.
Slicing the map up that way is the thing ZOS don't want to do. And the alternative of having two copies of everything, with one PvE and the other PvP, is equally ruled out. Yes Cyrodiil is mostly PvP, but there are still quests there, and you can duel almost anywhere.
The requirements for PvE or PvP equipment to be gathered in the other half is another example of their insistence on mixing the two together. They want one game, not two, and I can see their point.0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭The game needs to balanced character to character with mobs adjusted around those changes. That's the mathematically correct way to balance.0 -
Alphawolf01A✭✭✭✭✭If things like health, healing rate, shields etc. can be temporarily nerfed when going into BG or Cyro from PVE, why can't other nerfs be implemented while in PVP for balance and then revert back when in PVE. Context sensitive nerfs instead of "robbing Peter to pay Paul" I'm tired of the "fix 1 problem by breaking 3 more thing" mentality.2
