Racism in ESO

SomeDogsAreCops · May 2019

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Yeah, I was tempted to take a screenshot of it and report the player, but I was in a hurry to log out for dinner so I didn't. Also, I'd rather not get into the practice of reporting other players and getting them banned or whatever, unless it's for something pretty extreme.

It is pretty extreme, Twitch bans streamers for using racist comments, including viewers as well also nearly every online game that i have played perm bans your accounts as well for using racial slurs

Twitch only does the minimum to avoid major PR issues, yes a racial slur will get you a temp ban and if you keep doing it a perma will come but twitch is pretty whatever about a lot of things. Also, idk what online "games" you are talking about but most mmos only take action if its directed harassment (of any kind) and will give people profanity filters if they don't wanna see those words.

Jayne_Doe · May 2019

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Yeah, I was tempted to take a screenshot of it and report the player, but I was in a hurry to log out for dinner so I didn't. Also, I'd rather not get into the practice of reporting other players and getting them banned or whatever, unless it's for something pretty extreme.

I did that one time, in regard to extremely lewd, sexual comments. ZOS' response: Sorry that happened to you. There is an ignore feature, so feel free to put them on your ignore list.

DaveMoeDee · May 2019

The Internet is full of people that make you wonder if Thanos was on to something.

DaveMoeDee · May 2019

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

I've not had racist comments directed at me thankfully but I have had people tell me I have psychological problems because of the characters I play - one who kept on (and on, and on) insisting the only reason anyone has ever played a khajiit is because they're a furry and if I say that's nothing to do with it then I'm a furry in denial. And one who said I must be transsexual if I'm female in real life and playing a male character and I need to see a doctor and get cured.

This one confuses the heck out of me. If you play a *character* in a videogame that is different than you are irl, you need help? Does every male playing tomb raider need help? Does every woman playing Carl Johnson in GTA:SA need help? I'd argue if you can only ever play a toon that looks like or is you, you're closer to needing help. Additionally, trans =/= gender dysphoria. Just by being trans, there's nothing medically to treat.

The furry one is right though.
Yes, that is sarcasm.

I figure there are a lot of people who aren't so secure in their own sexuality who always try to remind themselves how straight an arrow they are.

Tomg999 · May 2019

IMO, I don't see why any RP or character based racism would be a problem. It's when one directs anything like that towards the player that it's an issue.
If a game is going to have races with slavery & historical hatred issues in the lore, then it is part of the game and should be allowed.

Goregrinder · May 2019

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

To anyone saying “it’s the internet, get over it,” it’s no excuse to be a racist piece of garbage.

Note, I mean that slur and whatnot. Not the in-game racism between the races of Tamriel.

It's just life advice. Being offended by everything, isn't an excuse to have to rectify everything, so you are longer offended by it. The world can't conform to your personal standards or morals, people can't be molded to always treat you the way you want them to treat you.

People are people, the universe is just a bunch of events happening that occasionally intersect each other at some point in time and space. Whether they are "good" or "bad" are always subjective based on whoever is observing them. I have stopped thinking with the mindset of how people "SHOULD" behave or act, because you cannot control that. You can't. You are not Thanos.

Instead, I ask myself how do I "want" to be treated. Once you decide, you give your time and energy to those who treat you the way you deemed acceptable, and don't give those who treat you otherwise, your time or energy. You can't force anything here, you can only choose where your time and energy gets spent. If someone hates your favorite band, then they hate it. If that offends you, well that is your right to have those feelings, but they are "your" feelings, your business, not their feelings, not their business.

This applies to anything negative in your life. The more effort you spend on trying to force other people to behave the way you think they should, is less effort spent on progressing your own life, your own goals, or enjoying your own time with people you really want to enjoy them with. And the argument of "Well if you're not AGAINST something...then you're promoting it!!" is an absolutist argument. It's not about whether you are for or against something...picking sides is such a linear way of thinking.

Really it is deciding if their is a problem, and if there is deciding if there are solutions, if there are, figuring out all possible solutions, and then determining which one would benefit everyone. It's not " well..it's either option A, or option B...pick..right NOW....".

Is it really worth getting upset about what someone says to you? Regardless of what words they use, what inflection they project, what their intentions may be...is it worth wasting your limited time on this planet over some words by some random human somewhere on the planet? I really don't feel it is. I've been heckled many times in my life, but honestly they are heckling my appearance which is tied to my body/vessel/vehicle (whatever adjective you want to use to describe it).

When I die, this body is going to decompose and probably be eaten by fauna, bugs, other organisms (assuming I don't get cremated or something), and will cease to exist as it is. But I don't define my existence based solely my body, looks, appearance. It is just a shell full of sensors enabling me to experience this 3rd dimension existence. Worrying about what he said she said, worrying about the guy down the street from you not obeying the HOA laws with his pink flamingos in his yard, worrying about what some dude in the youtube comments section said...it's just so pointless.

Words are are just random sounds we make with our mouths, and vibrations traveling through the air. They are also just different configurations of symbols we call "letters". They are a means to convey an idea, so really what offends you is actually the "idea" that someone has, not so much the literally act of speaking those words, and that their idea is vastly different from your ideas. But if that really offends you, then I really can't help you.

richo262 · May 2019

When the money is printed from thin air, the only currency is outrage.

At least in ESO I have to kill a monster for gold.

Beardimus · May 2019

Honestly, take it as its intended. That said crossing real life unacceptable words into the game - not cool.

In game RP banter racism is legit tho i think

My fat toon gets called fatty all the time, it's funny!

The worst ive found is NA, i have a female toon but I'm a guy, and the amount of sexist remarks ive had is astounding. Yet on EU and playing 2 years more ive had none. Weird.

In game banter, fine, crossing the boundaries, uncool

SomeDogsAreCops · May 2019

Goregrinder wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

To anyone saying “it’s the internet, get over it,” it’s no excuse to be a racist piece of garbage.

Note, I mean that slur and whatnot. Not the in-game racism between the races of Tamriel.

It's just life advice. Being offended by everything, isn't an excuse to have to rectify everything, so you are longer offended by it. The world can't conform to your personal standards or morals, people can't be molded to always treat you the way you want them to treat you.

People are people, the universe is just a bunch of events happening that occasionally intersect each other at some point in time and space. Whether they are "good" or "bad" are always subjective based on whoever is observing them. I have stopped thinking with the mindset of how people "SHOULD" behave or act, because you cannot control that. You can't. You are not Thanos.

Instead, I ask myself how do I "want" to be treated. Once you decide, you give your time and energy to those who treat you the way you deemed acceptable, and don't give those who treat you otherwise, your time or energy. You can't force anything here, you can only choose where your time and energy gets spent. If someone hates your favorite band, then they hate it. If that offends you, well that is your right to have those feelings, but they are "your" feelings, your business, not their feelings, not their business.

This applies to anything negative in your life. The more effort you spend on trying to force other people to behave the way you think they should, is less effort spent on progressing your own life, your own goals, or enjoying your own time with people you really want to enjoy them with. And the argument of "Well if you're not AGAINST something...then you're promoting it!!" is an absolutist argument. It's not about whether you are for or against something...picking sides is such a linear way of thinking.

Really it is deciding if their is a problem, and if there is deciding if there are solutions, if there are, figuring out all possible solutions, and then determining which one would benefit everyone. It's not " well..it's either option A, or option B...pick..right NOW....".

Is it really worth getting upset about what someone says to you? Regardless of what words they use, what inflection they project, what their intentions may be...is it worth wasting your limited time on this planet over some words by some random human somewhere on the planet? I really don't feel it is. I've been heckled many times in my life, but honestly they are heckling my appearance which is tied to my body/vessel/vehicle (whatever adjective you want to use to describe it).

When I die, this body is going to decompose and probably be eaten by fauna, bugs, other organisms (assuming I don't get cremated or something), and will cease to exist as it is. But I don't define my existence based solely my body, looks, appearance. It is just a shell full of sensors enabling me to experience this 3rd dimension existence. Worrying about what he said she said, worrying about the guy down the street from you not obeying the HOA laws with his pink flamingos in his yard, worrying about what some dude in the youtube comments section said...it's just so pointless.

Words are are just random sounds we make with our mouths, and vibrations traveling through the air. They are also just different configurations of symbols we call "letters". They are a means to convey an idea, so really what offends you is actually the "idea" that someone has, not so much the literally act of speaking those words, and that their idea is vastly different from your ideas. But if that really offends you, then I really can't help you.

A little wordy but wise none the less. Back in the 80s it was conservatives and religion that was used as the weapon to sterilize society and art. Now today it's liberals and ideology. Shame because we were making serious strides in tail end of 00s and in the beginning of this decade.

Burtan · May 2019

The world isn't all rainbows and unicorns, suck it up.

SydneyGrey · May 2019

Imagine how racist a person has to be to act racist toward a character in a video game just because he LOOKS like a race you don't like in real life. LOL. That's some serious level of pathetic, right there.

priforce · May 2019

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Does anyone ever receive racist comments from other players while playing ESO?

I know that some players who are playing Dark Elf or High Elf characters sometimes like to RP and give players who are playing Argonian or Khajiit characters a hard time, talking about slavery.

And I've seen at least one player in one of the guilds I'm in being verbally abusive toward other players in the guild during AvA warfare in Cyrodiil, calling them "f*****s." I was shocked to see that, but I'm not sure if it was intended to be taken personally or was just supposed to be some sort of "army barracks" macho man talk.

Anyway, in my case I was playing a Redguard character and last night another player made a racist comment which I believe was aimed at me. Frankly, I tend to ignore the chat box while playing-- unless I'm doing a group activity-- so I didn't even notice his comments until afterward, and by then I'd moved away from the more densely populated area of the city I was in and couldn't see who had spoken. The reason I think he may have been speaking to me is because he asked whether I (or whoever he was speaking to) was a Breton or a "N*-**-guard," where "N*-**" was a 4-letter hyphenated form of "the N word." Although my character is a Redguard, he has a last name which might be taken as Breton. It was actually intended as an "occupational" name ("Outrider"), but in the real world I think it was mainly used in Britain-- at least, it got turned around to become a British surname ("Rideout") and its variant spellings.

It's possible that this other player wasn't even speaking to me, but he was clearly speaking to someone-- and his pejorative term for Redguard was clearly racist.

Although I found it to be offensive, the fact that I'm a 60-year-old white dude meant that I didn't react to it as strongly as someone else might have, but that's beside the point.

Do any of you ever receive racist or pejorative comments based on your characters? Or have you seen other players receiving such comments? How do you feel about this sort of thing? I know it's against the game's TOS, but that doesn't stop some people from doing it anyway.

Racist interactions in ESO are the exception - but not the rule. *Brace yourselves for a long response, which is typical of me*

Here's the bad news -

There are tons of racist comments and experiences that come with MMOs and ESO is NOT the exception - the same goes for sexist, homophobic, Islamophobic, anti-Semitic, transphobic, anti-immigrant xenophobia, and *** culture. I've even heard anti-veteran speak against our soldiers, many of them who are suffering from PTSD and find solace in playing ESO only to be berated with comments against them. It's crazy.

When someone goes on a rant in public/zone chat, we are forced to remove ourselves from the chat, but we are not permitted to "mute" that individual even if we block them. In-game audio chat exposes us to a lot of crap that other MMOs don't have to deal with because they don't offer the feature.

Other MMO countries have even taken drastic steps to stamp out offensive language - and that in of itself was trolled by youtubers as "policing" and catering to "social justice warriors" when really it's about common decency and public self-respect. Not everything that is acceptable in the USA is condoned in other countries.

I predict that this forum discussion alone will get troll'd by so many people that it will be forced to be closed. That is how the arseholes win.

Even the ZOS team isn't exactly diverse when it comes to racial backgrounds - so the urgency of the matter doesn't weigh against other issues that they have to contend with - like making a successful launch of their next chapter since a lot of new players will be coming on board and getting their first impressions.

Just wait until the next Elder Scrolls game, if it actually centers around Redguards and Bretons, there is going to be a lot of offensive trollin' that the Nords of Skyrim didn't receive.

So I write this to let you know - you are not alone, you are not crazy, and just because someone says that they haven't seen any instance of racism or haven't experienced it themselves doesn't invalidate its existence but reinforces their privilege.

Here's the good news -

Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman didn't become successful because they were brought to audiences by big production studios, marketing, and solely focus on people of color and women, but because a whole lot of people went to go see them.

The trolls - they are the extreme minority, and most guilds don't even allow that kind of language in guild chat and maybe once a year I would leave a pug group where someone is constantly using offensive language. Maybe their dps sucks or they are clueless as a tank or a nb healer (joking), but there are more jokes and teases in the ESO community than the loudmouth jerks who get a lot more attention that they deserve and get booted from the raid because of it.

@ZOS_GinaBruno and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom are great at community management and the ESO player community as a whole don't tolerate that crap, and compared to other MMOs, ESO has a much more respectable, cleanier, and healthier community. maybe that is why big steps in addressing these toxic players has not been made by the ZOS team because that are so few and far between that it doesn't merit a hotfix.

Bottom line is -

As a Black male educated tech entrepreneur in a major city in California who began playing ESO, I founded a guild with a White male disabled super-smart veteran living in the suburbs of South Carolina. He is surrounded by racist, xenophobic crap all the time, and I am surrounded by people who would harshly judge and stereotype someone like him.

Being worlds apart - we became best friends chatting about growing up in the 80s and 90s, sharing thoughts on comic books, sci-fi, and other geek stuff. I was honored when he asked me to be his 2nd best man at his wedding and I flew to be there and his daughter views me as an uncle. This the ESO experience and I've found it to be the rule and not the exception.

Generally, the ESO player community is healthy and there are too many people who want to have a good time here and not be stressed by the crap you have had to experience.

So yes, you are going to get troll'd by the haters, especially by highlighting this issue, but they will eventually be drowned out by the majority of players who are friendly, helpful, and happy to meet someone like you that opens their world up just like your world would be open up by them.

Jenzi · May 2019

Been playing the game since the start and my first experience with racism was last week. It was in pvp and he whispered “you’re probably a savage from a [snip]hole country”. I reported him and hopefully he received a ban. [snip]

[edited for inappropriate content (real world politics)]

DocFrost72 · May 2019

Even the ZOS team isn't exactly diverse when it comes to racial backgrounds - so the urgency of the matter doesn't weigh against other issues that they have to contend with ...

...just because someone says that they haven't seen any instance of racism or haven't experienced it themselves doesn't invalidate its existence but reinforces their privilege.

I reported him and hopefully he received a ban. [snip] quote]

And we were doing so good too...

Chicharron · May 2019

I have never experienced racism, although i do not usually pay attention to the chat, for me, any character that i see is an NPC.

I see more racism in the forum disguised.

I do not think it should be given that much importance, that kind of people are usually losers in real life.

Xerikten · May 2019

been playing these online mmo's for almost 20 years and cant remember too many occurrences involving racism. sexism maybe. but now days one just ignores general chat as we all can thank WOW for this.

pvp and their chat is another story as pvp usually brings out the worse in people.

rotaugen454 · May 2019

Chicharron wrote: »

I have never experienced racism, although i do not usually pay attention to the chat, for me, any character that i see is an NPC.

I see more racism in the forum disguised.

I do not think it should be given that much importance, that kind of people are usually losers in real life.

True, I haven’t personally met a lot of successful racists. Most of them have been poor and looking for something to blame other than their own poor life choices.

DenMoria · May 2019

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Does anyone ever receive racist comments from other players while playing ESO?

I know that some players who are playing Dark Elf or High Elf characters sometimes like to RP and give players who are playing Argonian or Khajiit characters a hard time, talking about slavery.

And I've seen at least one player in one of the guilds I'm in being verbally abusive toward other players in the guild during AvA warfare in Cyrodiil, calling them "f*****s." I was shocked to see that, but I'm not sure if it was intended to be taken personally or was just supposed to be some sort of "army barracks" macho man talk.

Anyway, in my case I was playing a Redguard character and last night another player made a racist comment which I believe was aimed at me. Frankly, I tend to ignore the chat box while playing-- unless I'm doing a group activity-- so I didn't even notice his comments until afterward, and by then I'd moved away from the more densely populated area of the city I was in and couldn't see who had spoken. The reason I think he may have been speaking to me is because he asked whether I (or whoever he was speaking to) was a Breton or a "N*-**-guard," where "N*-**" was a 4-letter hyphenated form of "the N word." Although my character is a Redguard, he has a last name which might be taken as Breton. It was actually intended as an "occupational" name ("Outrider"), but in the real world I think it was mainly used in Britain-- at least, it got turned around to become a British surname ("Rideout") and its variant spellings.

It's possible that this other player wasn't even speaking to me, but he was clearly speaking to someone-- and his pejorative term for Redguard was clearly racist.

Although I found it to be offensive, the fact that I'm a 60-year-old white dude meant that I didn't react to it as strongly as someone else might have, but that's beside the point.

Do any of you ever receive racist or pejorative comments based on your characters? Or have you seen other players receiving such comments? How do you feel about this sort of thing? I know it's against the game's TOS, but that doesn't stop some people from doing it anyway.

Sometimes.

I also get homophobic comments when playing my male characters and sexist comments when playing my female toons. It's one of the reasons why I no longer have any voice or chat on in my game at all and do next to no socializing.

It's a fact of life with MMO's. All you can do is report the behaviour or grow a thicker skin and ignore it.

Many may say that it's a lot of kids playing (and it's obvious that a lot are), but it seems to be across the board, although usually from a male or younger age (I've never heard any female voices doing anything like that).

People can be jerks. That's life.

I'm far too old to care anymore.

Beardimus · May 2019

The issue is i don't think bans take place. On Xbox anyway, sure if folls message junk in Xbox chat MS will give a social ban, and enough of those is a perm ban but the trash that gets said in game text chat that everyone reports and the same folks so it again seems unchecked.

Aliyavana · May 2019

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Not racist, no. I even played an argonian and the worst I ever got called was "Boots" by my wife in RP.

The word you saw used is OOC. It's fine if a breton thinks all redguard are shifty in an rp (there's lore explaining cultural clash and mistrust), it's not fine to bring real world racism into game. If it upsets you enough to do it and you still have the chat or screenshots of it, report and let ZOS adjudicate.

Haha, boots

Aliyavana · May 2019

As long as its lore appropriate i believe its fine

Aliyavana · May 2019

Delete triple post

Goregrinder · May 2019

Jenzi wrote: »

Obviously a dumb Trump fan.

How is that slur any different than what he said?

PrayingSeraph · May 2019

Part of the issue is that words like "homophobic, racist, bigot" etc have been so abused to the point where they've lost the impact they once had. People are too quick to call something "racist". Or you have a dumb term created in effort to protect a single specific religion from criticism

I'm cool with ZoS and other MMO's banning religious/political arguements and *real* racist comments, but it has to be consistent to all sides. Which is tricky, because all moderators(no matter who) have biases.

Role play racism is perfectly fine, as long as it stays directed at the fictional races. If it bothers you, play a different game. Racism is a big part of TES lore, as are culture conflicts and integration issues. These make the world much more realistic and deep

Fajin · May 2019

Boy, if you were (or are) a Russian like me you would see stuff 5 times worse, I recieve comments about my nation almost every week or stumble across other people mocking Russians or harassing us for speaking in our language (since we don't have our chat server we write in global and a lot of people are pissed about this). Just cope with it! Why is everyone such a milkdrinker this days? I am not saying that what happend to you is good, it's just your reaction is kinda over the top.(Even though, you said you reacted "not as strong as other people might") It's the internet bro, what people say here 90% doesn't matter and that guy probably is a salty 12-year old that wants some attention.

Chicharron · May 2019

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Role play racism is perfectly fine, as long as it stays directed at the fictional races. If it bothers you, play a different game. Racism is a big part of TES lore, as are culture conflicts and integration issues. These make the world much more realistic and deep

Out of curiosity

If someone who does not care about the lore plays with an argonian just for the appearance.

Is it okay to be racist with him just because it fits the lore?

MaxJrFTW · May 2019

You're playing a game that let's you side with slavers against slaves. Yes, there's a quest where a couple of former slaves are trying to set up their former master to ambush and kill her. You can side with her and kill them.

My point is that you should stay away from both ESO and the internet, if you are one of those over sensitive types.

Tommy_The_Gun · May 2019

Does racial rebalance patch notes counts ?

TheShadowScout · May 2019

Chicharron wrote: »

If someone who does not care about the lore plays with an argonian just for the appearance.
Is it okay to be racist with him just because it fits the lore?

If you want to roleplay a "racist" character, and they want to roleplay their argonian with you... why not? There can be a lot of fun roleplay to be had in many flavors... (And no, I am not talking about ERP raceplay!)

But the trick about this is -ALWAYS- to have out-of-character consent for any roleplay more then passing remarks and why would you waste passing remarks on people that you would not have agreed to roeplay with in the first place? (Initiating roleplay "IC-invitations" with it is usually fine, but it helps to make it so overdrawn cliché that its clear its meant entirely "tongue in cheek" from you the player...)

If they are into roleplaying, they will learn the lore and run with it in the flavor fitting their character background idea. But that's between them and whoever they choose to RP with. (and they might want to ask you if you are okay with RPing your "racist" character getting their just desserts from their poor, oppressed argonian character, just sayin)

And if they are not into roleplaying... better stick to OoC jokes and just tell them "You're a lizard, harry" and similar

StormeReigns · May 2019

https://youtu.be/EjUGOYjMcQU