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What do you think of my Templar Class Chart? (Buffs, debuffs, Utility)

Tasear
Tasear
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Templar-Chart.png

This is my test subject, before I do other classes, so would like some feedback? Is everything in right place? Does it make sense? Is the text readable? Is there anything that can be improved to it?
  • Wing
    Wing
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    I like it!

    my only criticism is that the unique buffs and debuffs are in the same category as the major minor access

    if you could perhaps organize it

    Buffs / Debuffs
    (bullet point) majors
    (bullet point) minors
    (bullet points) other named effects
    _____________________ (separation bar or something)
    unique non major minor system buffs / debuffs that are not governed by the major minor system

    and possibly along with the utility tab also a resource or sustain tab with all unique passives or abilities that grant sustain once again not governed by the major minor system?
    Edited by Wing on May 10, 2019 4:19AM
    ESO player since beta.
    game got too disappointing.
  • Tasear
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    Wing wrote: »
    I like it!

    my only criticism is that the unique buffs and debuffs are in the same category as the major minor access

    if you could perhaps organize it

    Buffs / Debuffs
    (bullet point) majors
    (bullet point) minors
    (bullet points) other named effects
    _____________________ (separation bar or something)
    unique non major minor system buffs / debuffs that are not governed by the major minor system

    and possibly along with the utility tab also a resource or sustain tab with all unique passives or abilities that grant sustain once again not governed by the major minor system?

    Thanks, I will see what I can do within scope.
  • Vapirko
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    I think I’d go one step further and divide this into magicka and stamina categories. A fair number of these skills and buffs/debuffs aren’t usable on stamina templars or do not apply. And while it’s useful to see this laid out, it’s not a good way to compare classes. Many of these skills simply aren’t any use in PvP. For example unless you’re casting from a Zerg dark flare is really no good. Solo or small scale magplar can’t slot flare due to the cast time and bar space issues. If we look at Necros right now they’re going to have major defile built right in to desirable skills. If you wanted these charts to be useful I would, at the very least, start a magicka and stamina subcategory in order to see how classes balance out between specs as well as a class as a whole and then you would be able to compare stam or mag specs specifically between classes and that might be more valuable.
  • Hotdog_23
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    I would list where each buff, debuffs and utility comes from which morph if it is a skill or a passive under which skill line. Just listing looks kind of lost. If you want to get visually creative do the magic skill in blue color, green for stamina and red for health. Leave the passive in black color.

    I would also do the weapon lines, armor, guild and world lines for a total and complete list.

    Thanks for sharing and look forward to your efforts.

    Plus add the spelling to your dictionary to get rid of the red line or use the ignore tool.

  • mague
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    I also would add the skills/morph and durations.
  • ZOS_RogerJ
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    Just a friendly reminder to keep the thread constructive, civil and on-topic. While we completely understand everyone has their own opinions, thoughts, feelings and even frustrations, we want the forums to be a civil and constructive platform for the game and it's community as a whole.
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
    Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site
    Staff Post
  • Druid40
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    Looking good. :)
    Edited by Druid40 on May 10, 2019 1:03PM
  • Minno
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    Lol ZoS mods got more proactive defense on the forums than my Templar lol

    Great initiative! I'll read further during lunchtime.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Minno
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    ok i read it quickly instead of at lunch. A few pointers/suggestions:
    - there should be an identification next to each buff/debuff that can only be accessed by either stamplar or magplar. For example, major weapon crit is only available if you pick stamina cost/dmg versions of jabs. I would draw the line on skills that cost one dmg type and deal that same dmg type as being for that type of templar only (like POTL gives minor breach/fracture but costs stam/deals stamina scaled dmg should be a stamplar only gained buff/debuff)
    - passives that only buff a specific skill(s) shouldn't make this list IMHO. Reason being if you don't use the skill, you lose the passive instantly. In fact, I would place it on a different list, since this is a major pain point for templars. Example is the armor buff while using rememberance; not only does it only apply to the skill, it only applies while you are channeling it so access to it is no inconsistent.
    - I would like to see how each buff/debuff is accessed. I am not sure how that is done easily but, for example, 70% snare is only possible if you use jabs/sweeps and the last hit connects. That debuff is also dodgeable so application is important for some of these debuffs.

    Those are my thoughts. Great list however; we needed this!
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • casparian
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    It's accurate. But without knowing what it's for I'm not sure what else to say about it. In particular, I think it would be misleading to judge templar's quality as a class merely by reference to this list, because it leaves out the crucial question of how templar accesses these buffs/debuffs. For instance, saying they have access to Major Protection is relatively meaningless on its own. If they got Major Protection by, say, activating any healing ability, that would be ridiculously OP. Of course, we can now only access that buff by using a single expensive ult that roots us in place, which makes it considerably less useful (so much so that most PVE and PVP templar builds don't even use that ult, meaning most templar builds don't have Major Protection).

    So it might be more useful to come up with a rating system for how practical it is to access each point on your list.

    The difficulty with that approach, of course, is that the answers would be different for stamplar and magplar. (For instance, stamplar can't build 2 ult every 6 seconds unless they use a skill that doesn't work very well on stamplar (POTL), while magplar builds ult 2 every 6 seconds by using either of two different skills that synergize extremely well with its toolkit and add a ton of DPS to its rotation -- so stamplar only barely has access to that buff, while magplar gets it very easily).
    7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.
  • Minno
    Minno
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    casparian wrote: »
    It's accurate. But without knowing what it's for I'm not sure what else to say about it. In particular, I think it would be misleading to judge templar's quality as a class merely by reference to this list, because it leaves out the crucial question of how templar accesses these buffs/debuffs. For instance, saying they have access to Major Protection is relatively meaningless on its own. If they got Major Protection by, say, activating any healing ability, that would be ridiculously OP. Of course, we can now only access that buff by using a single expensive ult that roots us in place, which makes it considerably less useful (so much so that most PVE and PVP templar builds don't even use that ult, meaning most templar builds don't have Major Protection).

    So it might be more useful to come up with a rating system for how practical it is to access each point on your list.

    The difficulty with that approach, of course, is that the answers would be different for stamplar and magplar. (For instance, stamplar can't build 2 ult every 6 seconds unless they use a skill that doesn't work very well on stamplar (POTL), while magplar builds ult 2 every 6 seconds by using either of two different skills that synergize extremely well with its toolkit and add a ton of DPS to its rotation -- so stamplar only barely has access to that buff, while magplar gets it very easily).

    I agree with this. How can we display this info easily? I mentioned OP can simply state the access each skill must achieve along with the type of templar is scales with.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • BNOC
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    ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »
    Just a friendly reminder to keep the thread constructive, civil and on-topic. While we completely understand everyone has their own opinions, thoughts, feelings and even frustrations, we want the forums to be a civil and constructive platform for the game and it's community as a whole.

    The conversations are only constructive if you guys take something from them - We can talk all day, but that's about it.
    Minno wrote: »
    casparian wrote: »
    It's accurate. But without knowing what it's for I'm not sure what else to say about it. In particular, I think it would be misleading to judge templar's quality as a class merely by reference to this list, because it leaves out the crucial question of how templar accesses these buffs/debuffs. For instance, saying they have access to Major Protection is relatively meaningless on its own. If they got Major Protection by, say, activating any healing ability, that would be ridiculously OP. Of course, we can now only access that buff by using a single expensive ult that roots us in place, which makes it considerably less useful (so much so that most PVE and PVP templar builds don't even use that ult, meaning most templar builds don't have Major Protection).

    So it might be more useful to come up with a rating system for how practical it is to access each point on your list.

    The difficulty with that approach, of course, is that the answers would be different for stamplar and magplar. (For instance, stamplar can't build 2 ult every 6 seconds unless they use a skill that doesn't work very well on stamplar (POTL), while magplar builds ult 2 every 6 seconds by using either of two different skills that synergize extremely well with its toolkit and add a ton of DPS to its rotation -- so stamplar only barely has access to that buff, while magplar gets it very easily).

    I agree with this. How can we display this info easily? I mentioned OP can simply state the access each skill must achieve along with the type of templar is scales with.

    You have the same discussion r.e passives and r.e the PvE/PvP divide:

    "Balanced Warrior" is only a 50% buff to Magplar, probably not a buff at all in PvE as the goal is to avoid damage.
    "Light Weaver" benefits almost no good Templar in game and certainly not any DPS in PvP or PvE.
    "Master Ritualist" is effectively for PvP zerg heal bots and PvE healers that are going through progression.

    It might be tricky to categorise everything but I think on top of the suggestions R.E. Stamplar/Magplar you have to consider PvE/PvP usability (Because let's face it, most of the discussion surrounding class balance is related to PvP) as well as ease of access.
    • Ease of access
    • Spec benefited
    • Environment benefited
    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
    578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)

    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
    569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)
  • Cundu_Ertur
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    Tasear wrote: »
    Templar-Chart.png

    This is my test subject, before I do other classes, so would like some feedback? Is everything in right place? Does it make sense? Is the text readable? Is there anything that can be improved to it?

    Listing the source for each effect would help a lot with planning a build. Like, reduce enemy speed 70%, what does that? Is it an active effect, which one, is it a stamina ability or magic (color coding here would probably work), is it a particular morph, etc.
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
  • Tasear
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    A lot to consider I appreciate all the insights so far. Thank you all.
  • Tasear
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    for anyone curious, I decided to break this chart up. Atm thinking something along the lines of Utility trial for pvp, and trials and solo experience. Playstle chart to show class spirit of sorts. Then maybe just minor/major buffs chart of old
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Tasear wrote: »
    for anyone curious, I decided to break this chart up. Atm thinking something along the lines of Utility trial for pvp, and trials and solo experience. Playstle chart to show class spirit of sorts. Then maybe just minor/major buffs chart of old

    That actually well be the best chart!
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Tasear
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    Templar%2BUtility%2BChart.png

    Part 1/3
    Edited by Tasear on May 13, 2019 8:48PM
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Tasear wrote: »
    Templar%2BUtility%2BChart.png

    Part 1/3

    the way that is organized makes me sad that most of the pvp buffs/debuffs are never selected or make redundant by other skills in the templar kit, or downright useless in normal combat. Makes me sad, and cant wait to see the NB/Sorc/DK/Warden/Necro charts.

    Thank you for the chart however!
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Vajrak
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    I'm still trying to figure out what the purpose of the document is. It doesn't really give any insight, declares something as clashing that really doesn't, ignores declaring the strengths, skill name/tree. It's nice to see that you included the Ult return to low hp allies (below 60%), but neglect to list that it is on a skill that went from a strong place of balance for heal output and slight risk to use to such a high cost as to rarely if ever be worth slotting any longer, along with that missing a pretty important buff self/group listed.

    The format is overall clumsy to read as well, making it not a good snapshot of the class, nor of how it can be utilized, and has errors in some information.

    oTeXOAq.png

    Edited because I couldn't get the bloody image to post properly.

    Edited by Vajrak on May 13, 2019 11:32PM
  • nihoumab14_ESO
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    I really like your revised version @Tasear, I am new to ESO, and it tells me all the things a Templar can bring to the table.

    I also like what Valjrak linked, si CE it says what spells there are. both are very insightful,can't wait to see one for dragonknight healers ;)
  • Vajrak
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    I really like your revised version @Tasear, I am new to ESO, and it tells me all the things a Templar can bring to the table.

    I also like what Valjrak linked, si CE it says what spells there are. both are very insightful,can't wait to see one for dragonknight healers ;)

    What you like is the exact issue I have with @Tasear chart. It shows the effects, but not what they do, where they are from, wrong listed values, some you can't get because they are different morphs of the same skill or on skills that are cost inefficient to utilize.

    It's a start, but seems to be lacking a lot of information or not checked against current information.
  • Druid40
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    Really good work so far. :)
  • Hotdog_23
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    I agree with Vajrak, I don't see how I could use your chart Tasear. I really like his chart better. It just needs to be bigger to be able to see it better.

    Now if you are making the chart to compare other classes to then yes it is great for that.
  • Tasear
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    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    I agree with Vajrak, I don't see how I could use your chart Tasear. I really like his chart better. It just needs to be bigger to be able to see it better.

    Now if you are making the chart to compare other classes to then yes it is great for that.

    I am considering things. I do like above chart, since I think it takes it in better direction for theory crafting, or showing balance of stamina and Magicka options which is very important to large group of players, but it doesn't fullfill my objective. I want this chart to show experience options when picking this class and it's role and types. The end result will be showing any issues with classes fullfillig roles or types of dps.

    Afterwards I want to do playstle chart then I think I would like to have a chart like above to better showcase class breakup.

    I am doing this because I wish to stop spirit or playstle diminishing of classes so putting it on paper this is what makes my class special in how it plays and what it offers. Lastly since game skill advisors supports any role any class.we need a simple chart to say hey this is what makes us different yet doing same role.
    Edited by Tasear on May 14, 2019 12:13PM
  • mague
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    Maybe try a different approach. For the Templer the passives are the base of build.

    Piercing Spear -> While ability slotted -> +10% critical damage +10% against blocking
    Spear Wall -> When activating -> minus 8% damage / 4 secs
    Burning Light -> - -> 25% chance for more damage from spear skill

    Prism -> When activating -> Ultimate
    Illuminate -> When activating -> Minor Sorcery

    Light Weaver -> On Rite of Passage -> 16500 mitigation


    For me this is telling. I do need a Spear and a Wrath skill ticking/casted to get the first 5 passive all at once. And Light Weaver is combined with Rite of Passage a tough oh-*** setup.

    In my opinion any change on those six points would be a identity changer. Not necessarily a nerf , but an identity modification.
    Edited by mague on May 14, 2019 12:34PM
  • Minno
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    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    I agree with Vajrak, I don't see how I could use your chart Tasear. I really like his chart better. It just needs to be bigger to be able to see it better.

    Now if you are making the chart to compare other classes to then yes it is great for that.

    my only gripe with that other chart, is that:
    1) yellow on white background is REALLY hard to read. should choose black.
    2) the color legend at top makes the chart feel like there are 3 columns of buffs that match the header of each column. Took me a couple of tries to realize it was a legend lol.
    3) how is this any different from pulling up the build editor and reading the skills yourself?

    I would like to see a marriage between the two graphs. Maybe more of a tree/bubble diagram so you can see the branches/connections to show zos that templars dont have much flexibility as they want us to have.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • BNOC
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    Minno wrote: »
    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    I agree with Vajrak, I don't see how I could use your chart Tasear. I really like his chart better. It just needs to be bigger to be able to see it better.

    Now if you are making the chart to compare other classes to then yes it is great for that.

    my only gripe with that other chart, is that:
    1) yellow on white background is REALLY hard to read. should choose black.
    2) the color legend at top makes the chart feel like there are 3 columns of buffs that match the header of each column. Took me a couple of tries to realize it was a legend lol.
    3) how is this any different from pulling up the build editor and reading the skills yourself?

    I would like to see a marriage between the two graphs. Maybe more of a tree/bubble diagram so you can see the branches/connections to show zos that templars dont have much flexibility as they want us to have.

    Was just reading your reply and had to scroll back up to check and what do you know - I'd done the exact same thing haha.
    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
    578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)

    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
    569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)
  • Vapirko
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    ZOS_RogerJ wrote: »
    Just a friendly reminder to keep the thread constructive, civil and on-topic. While we completely understand everyone has their own opinions, thoughts, feelings and even frustrations, we want the forums to be a civil and constructive platform for the game and it's community as a whole.

    This is how they remove all the mentions of stamina templar needing buffs.
  • Vajrak
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    Minno wrote: »
    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    I agree with Vajrak, I don't see how I could use your chart Tasear. I really like his chart better. It just needs to be bigger to be able to see it better.

    Now if you are making the chart to compare other classes to then yes it is great for that.

    my only gripe with that other chart, is that:
    1) yellow on white background is REALLY hard to read. should choose black.
    2) the color legend at top makes the chart feel like there are 3 columns of buffs that match the header of each column. Took me a couple of tries to realize it was a legend lol.
    3) how is this any different from pulling up the build editor and reading the skills yourself?

    I would like to see a marriage between the two graphs. Maybe more of a tree/bubble diagram so you can see the branches/connections to show zos that templars dont have much flexibility as they want us to have.

    1) You may want to check your color settings; mine are balanced to true daylight since I edit photography on this system also, and it is orange on gray.

    2) agreed, it is a clumsy format for it, but this was something I put together just as an example for Tasear, not for use/implement.

    3) Where a chart like this differs from pulling up the build editor is by giving you access to an "at a glance" method, so you can build an initial idea of what tools you can use for what you want your build to accomplish.

    I threw mine together in about 15 minutes; I'm the head of a guild that teaches people Templar as a main for any/all roles, content and builds --- I even just made it in word and took a screenshot of it, because couldn't be arsed to make the full line of it.

    While my guild will always remain small as people come and go, or move to different aspects of the game (though I may eventually work to turn it into a Templar-All-Content guild), the information Tasear is trying to make into a quick graph is something I have been teaching people one to one for several years in-game now.

    In terms of all classes, generalized into fantasy archetypes.

    Dragonknight is about buffing and sustaining through a fight, wearing down a large pack of enemies while keeping the attention of a few heavy hitters. Dragonknight is your Knight in Shining Armor or your Defending Cleric.

    Sorcerer is all about that splish-splash INFINITE COSMIC POWER (ala Robin Williams!); whether close or far, it is going to lay down the pain train in a wide swath around it's target. This is your Wizard, or your Berserker Shock Trooper (no pun intended).

    Nightblade is all about making you not live long enough to regret having wasted your life; high mobility, high single target "instant" elimination. Mag or Stam, Nightblade is your (not so friendly) Scout-Assassin.

    Warden is all about the sustain, sustain, sustain, and sustain some more -- through heals, mitigations, proc pet damage effects and riders, but overall it is your protective class. Warden is your Druid. Hug that Tree, or the Bear shall maul thee!

    Necromancer is your boom-boom "I am Batman" fanboyism -- it does a lot of things that look cool, and with enough planning it will pull off almost anything it wants. Here you have your (possible insane) Warlord/Overlord.

    Templar...is where it gets to be messed up. It closes in fast, leaves no retreat, and keeps fighting until everyone is dead, or it's allies have escaped. Templar is your Lancer/Dragoon mixed a bit with your Holy Monk or Paladin.

    On the pain points thread, I've said many times they either need to reduce the cost, or revert Healing Ritual back to having a cast time and lower cost for the efficiency of the effect, in terms of healing and in ult generation capability, especially during execute phase mechanics. The only change it needed was the removal of the slow while channeling it, and a reduction to 1 second cast time to be in line with what is current standards; Having a primary and secondary heal on it after a 3 second wait made it an awesome skill, viable for both Tank or Healer to use.

    With all of that said, neither chart as presented really gives much in terms of build information. Mine is lacking build-direction, it just gives a list of the spec utilization (mag, stam, or both), and the rider effects Templar can bring in to a group. In terms of build directions, well....

    I currently have in play or in the works:
    A mixed PvE/PvP Magplar with moderate health, damage, and multiple flex skills for healing assistance, gap close, soft-controls, or pure dps --and Radiant Shield is actually part of its latest dps rotation in both PvE and PvP.

    A full "Bubbletank" that emphasizes shields and heavy attack sustain to them cycling so that the first 30-50k damage doesn't even begin to touch the HP, while still putting out reasonable damage ~8-10k.

    A Paladin healtank that emphasizes PBAoE slows and heals.

    A critplar stam build for high single target and burst damage.

    A debuff stamplar offtank, that is optimized around removing armor from a single target and can off-tank in an emergency while maintaining moderate to high (30-35k) dps.

    A Lifeguardian healer (double resto) that emphasizes HoTs while cycling a shield and party damage amplification with Combat Prayer and Purifying Light.

    A single target Purifier ranged magplar build, optimized about laying down constant damage from as far back as possible, but offering little beyond pure damage and "permanent" Major Breach.

    A War Cleric build (destro/resto) that maintains HoTs and an emergency burst heal or two, while getting into the mix of the fight and healing from the front lines instead of from the back/side.

    These aren't even all of the options available to Templar, and with the coming changes I may need another slot to make a Debuff Tank Trollkin Warrior, emphasizing debuffs and HoTs at the cost of any ability to deal damage.

    If you want the chart at it's simplest (based on spec and class skills only):
    Tank
    Consistent resource gain (~480 recovery); Magicka or Stamina: Rune Focus
    High Damage reactive shield (hp rider): Blazing Shield
    Moderate value Burst Heal: Honor the Dead
    Self-Cleanse and HoT PBAoE: Cleansing Ritual
    Spell damage increase: Any Dawns Wrath
    Major Maim: Nova
    AoE gap closer/interrupt: Explosive Charge

    Stamina DPS
    Group Heal (requires corpses): Repentance
    Minor Fracture/Breach: Power of the Light
    Ranged Stun, single target: Binding Javelin
    Self-Cleanse and HoT PBAoE, plus moderate slow and DoT: Ritual of Retribution
    Single target high value slow, 1 second delay: Biting Jabs
    Spell damage increase: Any Dawns Wrath

    Magicka DPS
    Resource Restore (highest attribute) mixed with ground DoT: Blazing Spear
    High Damage proactive shield: Radiant Ward
    Self-Cleanse and HoT PBAoE, plus moderate slow and moderate DoT: Ritual of Retribution
    Single target high value slow, 1 second delay: Puncturing Sweep
    High damage execute (with option of more damage or self-heal rider): Radiant Destruction
    Moderate Duration Empower: Dark Flare (5s) or Solar Barrage (8s)
    AoE Major Defile: Dark Flare
    Major Maim: Nova
    AoE gap closer/interrupt: Explosive Charge
    Gap closer/stun: Toppling Charge
    Self-heal based on damage: Puncturing Sweep
    Spell damage increase: Any Dawns Wrath

    Healer
    Resource Restore (both attributes) mixed with ground DoT: Luminous Shards
    High Value Burst Heals: Healing Ritual, Rushed Ceremony, Rite of Passage
    Self-Cleanse and HoT PBAoE, plus moderate slow and moderate DoT: Ritual of Retribution
    Damage amplification and HoT: Purifying Light
    AoE Major Defile: Dark Flare
    Major Maim: Nova
    Spell damage increase: Any Dawns Wrath


    When you look at the organization and overlap, it does a good job of pointing out why I am not a fan of Templar as a healer (party buffs, debuffs, and damage mitigation) as it overlaps heavily with Magicka DPS and Tank, so that bringing a good templar healer is really just adding more DPS with some emergency heals.
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Vajrak wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    I agree with Vajrak, I don't see how I could use your chart Tasear. I really like his chart better. It just needs to be bigger to be able to see it better.

    Now if you are making the chart to compare other classes to then yes it is great for that.

    my only gripe with that other chart, is that:
    1) yellow on white background is REALLY hard to read. should choose black.
    2) the color legend at top makes the chart feel like there are 3 columns of buffs that match the header of each column. Took me a couple of tries to realize it was a legend lol.
    3) how is this any different from pulling up the build editor and reading the skills yourself?

    I would like to see a marriage between the two graphs. Maybe more of a tree/bubble diagram so you can see the branches/connections to show zos that templars dont have much flexibility as they want us to have.

    1) You may want to check your color settings; mine are balanced to true daylight since I edit photography on this system also, and it is orange on gray.

    2) agreed, it is a clumsy format for it, but this was something I put together just as an example for Tasear, not for use/implement.

    3) Where a chart like this differs from pulling up the build editor is by giving you access to an "at a glance" method, so you can build an initial idea of what tools you can use for what you want your build to accomplish.

    I threw mine together in about 15 minutes; I'm the head of a guild that teaches people Templar as a main for any/all roles, content and builds --- I even just made it in word and took a screenshot of it, because couldn't be arsed to make the full line of it.

    While my guild will always remain small as people come and go, or move to different aspects of the game (though I may eventually work to turn it into a Templar-All-Content guild), the information Tasear is trying to make into a quick graph is something I have been teaching people one to one for several years in-game now.

    In terms of all classes, generalized into fantasy archetypes.

    Dragonknight is about buffing and sustaining through a fight, wearing down a large pack of enemies while keeping the attention of a few heavy hitters. Dragonknight is your Knight in Shining Armor or your Defending Cleric.

    Sorcerer is all about that splish-splash INFINITE COSMIC POWER (ala Robin Williams!); whether close or far, it is going to lay down the pain train in a wide swath around it's target. This is your Wizard, or your Berserker Shock Trooper (no pun intended).

    Nightblade is all about making you not live long enough to regret having wasted your life; high mobility, high single target "instant" elimination. Mag or Stam, Nightblade is your (not so friendly) Scout-Assassin.

    Warden is all about the sustain, sustain, sustain, and sustain some more -- through heals, mitigations, proc pet damage effects and riders, but overall it is your protective class. Warden is your Druid. Hug that Tree, or the Bear shall maul thee!

    Necromancer is your boom-boom "I am Batman" fanboyism -- it does a lot of things that look cool, and with enough planning it will pull off almost anything it wants. Here you have your (possible insane) Warlord/Overlord.

    Templar...is where it gets to be messed up. It closes in fast, leaves no retreat, and keeps fighting until everyone is dead, or it's allies have escaped. Templar is your Lancer/Dragoon mixed a bit with your Holy Monk or Paladin.

    On the pain points thread, I've said many times they either need to reduce the cost, or revert Healing Ritual back to having a cast time and lower cost for the efficiency of the effect, in terms of healing and in ult generation capability, especially during execute phase mechanics. The only change it needed was the removal of the slow while channeling it, and a reduction to 1 second cast time to be in line with what is current standards; Having a primary and secondary heal on it after a 3 second wait made it an awesome skill, viable for both Tank or Healer to use.

    With all of that said, neither chart as presented really gives much in terms of build information. Mine is lacking build-direction, it just gives a list of the spec utilization (mag, stam, or both), and the rider effects Templar can bring in to a group. In terms of build directions, well....

    I currently have in play or in the works:
    A mixed PvE/PvP Magplar with moderate health, damage, and multiple flex skills for healing assistance, gap close, soft-controls, or pure dps --and Radiant Shield is actually part of its latest dps rotation in both PvE and PvP.

    A full "Bubbletank" that emphasizes shields and heavy attack sustain to them cycling so that the first 30-50k damage doesn't even begin to touch the HP, while still putting out reasonable damage ~8-10k.

    A Paladin healtank that emphasizes PBAoE slows and heals.

    A critplar stam build for high single target and burst damage.

    A debuff stamplar offtank, that is optimized around removing armor from a single target and can off-tank in an emergency while maintaining moderate to high (30-35k) dps.

    A Lifeguardian healer (double resto) that emphasizes HoTs while cycling a shield and party damage amplification with Combat Prayer and Purifying Light.

    A single target Purifier ranged magplar build, optimized about laying down constant damage from as far back as possible, but offering little beyond pure damage and "permanent" Major Breach.

    A War Cleric build (destro/resto) that maintains HoTs and an emergency burst heal or two, while getting into the mix of the fight and healing from the front lines instead of from the back/side.

    These aren't even all of the options available to Templar, and with the coming changes I may need another slot to make a Debuff Tank Trollkin Warrior, emphasizing debuffs and HoTs at the cost of any ability to deal damage.

    If you want the chart at it's simplest (based on spec and class skills only):
    Tank
    Consistent resource gain (~480 recovery); Magicka or Stamina: Rune Focus
    High Damage reactive shield (hp rider): Blazing Shield
    Moderate value Burst Heal: Honor the Dead
    Self-Cleanse and HoT PBAoE: Cleansing Ritual
    Spell damage increase: Any Dawns Wrath
    Major Maim: Nova
    AoE gap closer/interrupt: Explosive Charge

    Stamina DPS
    Group Heal (requires corpses): Repentance
    Minor Fracture/Breach: Power of the Light
    Ranged Stun, single target: Binding Javelin
    Self-Cleanse and HoT PBAoE, plus moderate slow and DoT: Ritual of Retribution
    Single target high value slow, 1 second delay: Biting Jabs
    Spell damage increase: Any Dawns Wrath

    Magicka DPS
    Resource Restore (highest attribute) mixed with ground DoT: Blazing Spear
    High Damage proactive shield: Radiant Ward
    Self-Cleanse and HoT PBAoE, plus moderate slow and moderate DoT: Ritual of Retribution
    Single target high value slow, 1 second delay: Puncturing Sweep
    High damage execute (with option of more damage or self-heal rider): Radiant Destruction
    Moderate Duration Empower: Dark Flare (5s) or Solar Barrage (8s)
    AoE Major Defile: Dark Flare
    Major Maim: Nova
    AoE gap closer/interrupt: Explosive Charge
    Gap closer/stun: Toppling Charge
    Self-heal based on damage: Puncturing Sweep
    Spell damage increase: Any Dawns Wrath

    Healer
    Resource Restore (both attributes) mixed with ground DoT: Luminous Shards
    High Value Burst Heals: Healing Ritual, Rushed Ceremony, Rite of Passage
    Self-Cleanse and HoT PBAoE, plus moderate slow and moderate DoT: Ritual of Retribution
    Damage amplification and HoT: Purifying Light
    AoE Major Defile: Dark Flare
    Major Maim: Nova
    Spell damage increase: Any Dawns Wrath


    When you look at the organization and overlap, it does a good job of pointing out why I am not a fan of Templar as a healer (party buffs, debuffs, and damage mitigation) as it overlaps heavily with Magicka DPS and Tank, so that bringing a good templar healer is really just adding more DPS with some emergency heals.

    Thank you for this!
    This thread has more of a road map than the devs do lol.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
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