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Stealth in PVP is it fair? should it have a cool down?
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ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well I dont like it, and streak has an increased cost per cast based on how effective and unique it is. I'll go that far.9 -
kaithuzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Who said life/games are supposed to be fair?Member of:
Fantasia - osh kosh b-josh
Just Chill - Crown's house
GoldCloaks - Durruthy test server penga
Small Meme Guild - Mano's house
Former member of:
Legend - Siffer fan boy club
TKO (tamriel knight's order) - free bks
Deviance - Leonard's senche tiger
Purple - hamNchz is my hero
Eight Divines - myrlifax stop playing final fantasy
WKB (we kill bosses) - turd where you go?
Arcance Council - Klytz Kommander
World Boss - Mike & Chewy gone EP
M12 (majestic twelve) - cult of the loli zerg5 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Who said life/games are supposed to be fair?
@kaithuzar for most people video games aren't their entire life, most people are able to recognise the disconnect between the game and reality. most people recognise that a game, sport or other competitive activity needs to adhere to a certain standard of even rules across all those involved in the activity, otherwise what's the point in calling it a competition if one player is more likely to be the victor due to artificially inserted clauses or handicaps? unfortunate circumstances or literal handicaps on potential players notwithstanding, of course.
i only hope i've made you realise how needlessly contrarian your post was, thank you.skingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
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TrinityBreaker✭✭✭✭✭There is a cooldown. Its actively being in combat, and if you are not a NB or have stealth pots then you can't go back into stealth as easily.Ebonheart for life.
Xbox NA
I am Dog Star.
Khajiit Stam Sorc - Ji'saad Ranajiradh AR 30
Khajiit Mag DK - Kesjhad
Khajiit Magblade - Ji'sava Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamplar - Dro'haniAk'nir - AR 36
Khajiit Stam Dk - Diego Ri'jhad - AR 49
Khajiit Magplar - Dro'nara Ak'nir
Khajiit StamBlade - Ri'artharr Ak'nir
Fat Khajiit Stamden - Dro'hani Warbreaker
Argonian Stam DK - Tiberius Demetros
Khajiit Stamplar - Diëgo Ri'jhad
Fat Khajiit Stam DK - Drö'hani Ak'nir/Dances-With-Alkosh
Khajiit Magden - Arctic Mayhem4 -
DarkShadowFax✭✭✭Theres counters against it. Magelight, flares, ground AoEs. Hell you can even dawnbreaker a cloaker out of stealth if you have a decent idea of where they are.PC-NA | vCragHM | vDSA | Flawless | vMoLHM | vHoFHM | IR | GH | Unchained | vSSHM | DB | Spirit Slayer | vRGHM | vDSR | PvP Scrub- Zookeeper Sarena | Magicka Sorcerer
- Sarena Shadow-Claws | Stamina Nightblade
- Sarena the Dancer | Templar Healer
- Sarena Greenheart | Warden Healer
- Sarena Likes Hiding | Nightblade Healer
- Sarena Chases Bears | Stamina Warden
- Sarena Robs Graves | Necromancer Healer
- Sarena's Warning | Magicka Templar
- Saint Sarena | Magicka Nightblade
- Sarena Tail-Chaser | Magicka Dragonknight
- Sarena Likes Bones | Stamina Necromancer
- Sarena War-Wolf | Dragonknight Tank
- Sarena Stormcaller | Sorcerer Healer
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stealth is ESO is pretty balanced.
Its completely OP if you use none of the available counters.
It's completely useless if you use any of the available counters.
Use a counter. It doesn't need a cool down beyond the individual player's ability to sustain their own stealth.14 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭To be honest ESO is the first MMO i have played where you can go invisible multiple times over.
Most games tend to restrict stealth mechanics beacuse of the power/opportunity it provides.
Other games may allow you to get back to stealth/become invisible, but it usually comes with conditions/cooldowns.
Its just a byproduct of ESO not having a cooldown on skills, so ones that are more powerful cant really be balanced out well.2 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I very much enjoy stealth gameplay in AvA regardless of which side of the fence I'm on.1 -
Shushu_H✭I say yes its fair but no cooldown please.. Stam blades right now are a much harder to deal with than magblades, and magblades are the only ones that can really spam it indefinitely. Magblades are squishier and cant build heavy armor like stam as effectively or as versatile. Invis pots are interesting but no one really uses them either for reasons. There are lots of ways to break stealth also. Even pots break stealth. While streak moves you far away from your target at your ideal sorc range and can move you even farther in like a second. Gap closers can close in on that making it almost ineffective. The cost increase on streeak to me is crazy but maybe its necessary. I just dont think anything like that on nightblade will be good.
My noobie perspective but I think it makes sense.Edited by Shushu_H on May 5, 2019 1:06PM0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ok here me out here........ just a toilet thought..
Shadowy disguise
This ability now removes the cost of sneaking while slotted. Activating this ability causes you to immediately enter sneak and grants minor
expedition for 6 seconds. Magicka cost is unchanged.
Death stroke renamed Vanish
This ability has been redesigned. Upon activation, you immediately cloak yourself in shadows, making you completely invisible, removing all damage over time effects from yourself and removes your detection radius completely for 5 seconds. The stealth provided by this ability is not sneak and is not effected by detection spells, items or broken from ground or player based area of effect damage. After activation, this ability becomes Shadow Strike. Shadow strike deals x damage and stuns the target for y seconds.
This ability now costs 120 utlimate
morph 1 death stroke
now deals disease damage and applies
major defile to the target for 4 seconds
morph 2 sinister strike
now deals magic damage and
gain x ultimate every time you deal
damage for 4 seconds
.............Ill see myself outEdited by exeeter702 on May 5, 2019 5:45PM0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ZarkingFrued wrote: »Well I dont like it, and streak has an increased cost per cast based on how effective and unique it is. I'll go that far.
Streak is reliable, cloak is not. I do agree that invisibility is too effective (when it works) though.
Pretty useless against sorcs and Templars though so it could use some revaluation and meet somewhere in the middle.Edited by Strider__Roshin on May 5, 2019 6:15PM3 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZarkingFrued wrote: »Well I dont like it, and streak has an increased cost per cast based on how effective and unique it is. I'll go that far.
Streak is reliable, cloak is not. I do agree that invisibility is too effective (when it works) though.
Pretty useless against sorcs and Templars though so it could use some revaluation and meet somewhere in the middle.
Streak is far from reliable. However I don't believe cloak needs a cool down.2 -
Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There are many ways to counter cloak. That said, an experienced nightblade might outplay your efforts. That's fair.Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--5 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭does Not need a cooldown.
that would destroy nightblade.
sneak, invis casting, cloak casting is our only defense as nightblades.
but if you refuse to let us survive and forcefully remove our defenses then lets keep it consistant, put cool downs on tanking and heals and sorc shields as well.
Edited by Gilvoth on May 5, 2019 8:00PM3 -
MattT1988✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Being able to just turn completely invisible right in front of your opponents face is too OP in any PvP video game setting in my view.
BUT
In saying that, with the amount of counters available in the game, it does make it manageable to deal with. I don’t know if it’s balanced in its current state because I haven’t PvP’d in a while, but I think the game does an ok job at usually due to just how hard it is to make it fair for both sides when it comes to stealth gameplay.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stealth in PVP is it fair? should it have a cool down?
None of our skills have cooldowns and the devs have stated that is there intent so the question becomes a solid no from teh start.
Zos did give you the means to induce a cooldown. There are a variety of skills that are both PBAoE and ranged AoE that work well. It takes getting used to using them which is more than just pressing a button since we are talking PvP which has the unpredictable behavior of your opponent. I know they work well because I use them.
It is great forcing their reveal right before your eyes and killing them.
1 -
Xogath✭✭✭1. Use Caltrops or any comparably-large ground-based AoE.
2. DoT up the offender when their Stealth is inevitably broken.
3. ???
4. Respawn because you're that bad and they killed you anyway.1 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭1. Use Caltrops or any comparably-large ground-based AoE.
2. DoT up the offender when their Stealth is inevitably broken.
3. ???
4. Respawn because you're that bad and they killed you anyway.1. Use Caltrops or any comparably-large ground-based AoE.
2. DoT up the offender when their Stealth is inevitably broken.
3. ???
4. Respawn because you're that bad and they killed you anyway.
1-Spamming aoes to find someone at the end of the map, seems pretty darn stupid to me. Lots of nb are vamps so they can utilize the sneak speed passive in stealth effectivly.
2-you have to find the offender before you can dot them down, provided they don't stealth again and negate all your dots.
3- as much is stealth is countered, so is streak, is espacially next patch since they are buff the gap closer speeds. An example of counters to streak are: dots, stuns, gap closers, magor epxedition, chains and pulls, any range channeled ability like lightening HA, radaint and so on. Ball of lightening morph only mitigate dirct range attack while streak leaves you susibtable to all kinds of attacks.
4-had streak been like it use to be 4 tears ago where you basiclly be out of players reach, the cost penalty increase would be understandable, but now all you have to do is just run to sorcs who streak because they only 10m away from you now.
Having said that. I don't mind nb to be almost as it is, just removed garnted crit strike, stun, and make dots get to them, just like the can use hots as well.0 -
Luckylancer✭✭✭✭✭I rhink stealth balance is ok now. They can counter you hard but they are countered hard by s2w, other aoes and snares.
Stealth will be stronger next patch. Rip s2w so they have less hard counters, half of stam chracters can make cloak useless. Blur/psijic snare immunity will make the main cloakers(magblades) way stronger. Magnb will make a good comeback.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stealth playstyle in MMO as an idea is ok but ZoS execution of it in ESO isn't.Edited by Juhasow on May 6, 2019 7:40PM2 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Streak is reliable...on flat terrain without any obstacles and when sorc is not immobilized and enemy dont have gap closers. Streak "is too effective (when it works) though".ZarkingFrued wrote: »Well I dont like it, and streak has an increased cost per cast based on how effective and unique it is. I'll go that far.
Streak is reliable, cloak is not. I do agree that invisibility is too effective (when it works) though.
0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Jagdkommando wrote: »Sure, you are right, just delete all stealth skills.
Keep it, just tune it down a bit, it's very strong if used either offensivly or defensivly. And it offers a lot. Speaking about nightblade cloak only, regular sneak and potion a hard earned. Both require some sort of sacrifice. Regular sneak ulyiu have to be outside of combat to use it, and stealth potions require use to waste a potion will 45secz cooldown to use instead of using for example tri stat potion for sustain.0
