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why I, as a long time PvP'r, want a PvE version of cyrodiil (oh here we go!)
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JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What I don't understand is why PvP Players want PvE Players in the same instance? Padding stats?
PvP folks are so deadset against giving PvE their own instance. Usually the argument is given, it will reduce the population for PvP?
How? PvE dont go there to fight others. If I am in Cyrodiil, no PvP player sees me (I know how to avoid other players) so how does my presence benefit them?
Because for pve players who can't do what you do the gankers have a field day with no risk to themselves. Like the wonderful "pvp" players who camped quest turn-in spots and exploited door loading times to repeatedly kill the pve'rs who were trying to turn in quests. What most of these threads devolve to are [some] pvp players getting upset there wouldn't be any pve players to gank. There seems to be a need to have easy targets that aren't built or geared for pvp in Cyrodiil. No matter how many times its pointed out the pve players have no intention to do any pvp activities at all are still screwing up the population caps for pvp players who actually *want* to do pvp. If *no* skills/abilities that are tied to pvp are earned, and only the quest rewards and npc enemies are there, no telvar/no ap, nothing that has to be earned in pvp are available, I don't know why the pvpers are so dead set against a totally separate no way to spy/abuse/exploit anything related to pvp instance of cyrodiil.4 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭A few years ago, I would have cared. Now, I would have no problem with a PvE Cyro.
On the flip side, I'd like a "pure PvP" cyro. Strip out all the delves (RIP Blessing of War), dolmens, wandering NPCS, lorebooks, skyshards, etc.--if those have any bearing on server performance. I honestly don't know if they do.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What I don't understand is why PvP Players want PvE Players in the same instance? Padding stats?
PvP folks are so deadset against giving PvE their own instance. Usually the argument is given, it will reduce the population for PvP?
How? PvE dont go there to fight others. If I am in Cyrodiil, no PvP player sees me (I know how to avoid other players) so how does my presence benefit them?
I'm want PVEers in the same instance because because reducing the amount of players who ever try out PVP is not a good way to get new players out of their PVE comfort zone and into PVP.
This comes from my own experience. I was a PVE-only Skyrim player who didnt even like grouping up for dungeons. PVP terrified me. But I wanted those Master Angler fish. So I went into Cyrodiil, not intending to fight but prepared to die when PVP found me in a PVP zone.
I got my fish. I got ganked a couple times, as expected. I even got my first kill - a vamp jumped my MagDK and I Burning Embersed them to death.
I still hated Cyrodiil. But I still wanted those rewards. Skyshards. Delve bosses. Dolmens.
Eventually, I went back to Cyrodiil to try out PVP for itself. I sucked, I got better, I found a PVP guild and with their training and friendship, I became a PVPer.
It all started from ZOS' design of expecting players to play ALL of the game if they want ALL of the rewards. I'm in favor of that design. Certainly, getting me out of my PVE comfort zone worked, and brought me into a whole new form of gameplay I'd initially dismissed and has since brought me over two years of enjoyment.
Not everyone has that experience, certainly. But I see the value in expecting players to be in a PVP zone if they want the rewards of that PVP zone. It's about getting players to experience ALL that the game has to offer, even if they don't like that form of gameplay. Not every player will try and not ever player will stay, but enough players discover that "Huh, this isnt so bad" or "Okay, this is fun" that it brings in new blood (and this is true of all types of content, which we see with the festivals now - dungeons, arenas, and trials included.)Edited by VaranisArano on May 3, 2019 2:10PM1 -
Syuko✭✭✭It's fine as it is. My husband and I are PvE players but we've done all the anchors, delves, skyshards, and are currently working on the lorebooks in Cyrodiil. Do we die a lot? Yes but it's fun sneaking around getting everything. 🙂 Without the danger of getting these things it would be plain boring.3 -
CMDR_Un1k0rn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree with OP.
TBH someone who goes into Cyrodiil solely with the intent to do PvE was never going to give PvP'ers the epic battle they claim to crave anyway.
So frankly, each PvE'er in Cyro' is taking a slot from someone who actually wants to do PvP. It works against what PvP'ers want, save from the cheap gankers who want the PvE'ers in their instance so they can get easy kills.
A PvE Cyro' would have no impact on PvP. The people who would use the PvE mode were never going to give PvPer's battles anyway. Free those server slots up for people who actually want to play PvP.
I would argue that a PvE instance would only benefit the PvP community, by removing PvE'ers from that environment, allowing more PvP'ers to take part in PvP content at any given moment.In-game username: Un1korn | Happy member of the PCNA UESP guild (Resident Daggerfall Covenant enjoyer) | Main & basically only character: Crucian Vulpin, Imperial Dragonknight of the Daggerfall Covenant, and Undaunted Bulwark (I tank) | Mountain bike enjoyer and vulpine appreciator | If you know me from PCEU: No | To ZOS: THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BRING MY HORSE INTO BATTLE!13 -
Druid40✭✭✭✭As someone that actually liked and cared about PVP in 2015-2016, if people want PVP, they will go to PVP. For new players, it is mostly about finding a supportive group to help them get comfortable in Cyrodiil. PVP is truly the lowest part of the game in terms of performance and player interaction. Cyrodiil is not all bad, there are fun people, epic keep battles, and nice rewards. PVP players got dueling in PVE zones, the Golden Vendor, and overland set loot boxes so they don't have to play the main game. PVP in Cyrodiil should be skippable for people that want to continue enjoying what is essentially a cooperative PVE game with solo story elements.4 -
baltic1284✭✭✭✭This is where I think the rest of the Colovian and Nibeney region of Cyrodiil comes in. if they did that and had those areas for the Imperials that didn't help Mannimarco and such the 45 or so Skyshards could be there for the PVE players so they can get the same skyshard stuff and dungeons and such there and the PVP can have there precious zone for that stuff.1 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Imagine how many QQ threads would be snuffed out and how much animosity between the two camps could be reduced if this took place.
Fear is the Mindkiller11 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What I don't understand is why PvP Players want PvE Players in the same instance? Padding stats?
PvP folks are so deadset against giving PvE their own instance. Usually the argument is given, it will reduce the population for PvP?
How? PvE dont go there to fight others. If I am in Cyrodiil, no PvP player sees me (I know how to avoid other players) so how does my presence benefit them?
No, the argument is that most PvE players want to get everything in Cyrodiil (achievements, skyshards, skill lines, etc) without actually playing PvP, whereas PvP players would still need to do PvE (from item sets to sky shards to Undaunted 9 to Guild skill lines etc).
I doubt actual PvP players would oppose a Cyrodiil for PvE players that doesn’t give any goodies.
I would understand this, IF what you do has any effect on what I do. But it doesn't.
Seems to me that if there was a PVE Cyradil, any achievements that PVE characters could receive would Also be available to the PvP characters. Just go into the PVE side and do them.
But a PVE Cyradil would Not mirror what we have now. It would need things added, like a different overall theme (since all factions would be able to be there without problems) , more quests, new achievements, basically make it into a standard PVE region.0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What I don't understand is why PvP Players want PvE Players in the same instance? Padding stats?
PvP folks are so deadset against giving PvE their own instance. Usually the argument is given, it will reduce the population for PvP?
How? PvE dont go there to fight others. If I am in Cyrodiil, no PvP player sees me (I know how to avoid other players) so how does my presence benefit them?
No, the argument is that most PvE players want to get everything in Cyrodiil (achievements, skyshards, skill lines, etc) without actually playing PvP, whereas PvP players would still need to do PvE (from item sets to sky shards to Undaunted 9 to Guild skill lines etc).
I doubt actual PvP players would oppose a Cyrodiil for PvE players that doesn’t give any goodies.
But you don't do any PvP to take down a dolman or grab a skyshard or gather books. These things are not locked behind keep walls and you don't have to go through other players to get to them. So, these are PvE Activites, no matter what zone they are in.
Not getting any AP? Sure, that makes sense. The rest of the stuff is not based on PVP.Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"3 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭While I would enjoy the rewards available for Cyro and the IC, there is a reason that I haven't been there in years and will probably never go back.
I don't PvP. Period.
I have absolutely no desire to do so nor will I ever.
Fortunately, there is nothing there that I'm missing out on other than incredibly sadism and masochism.5 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No thank you. Cyrodiil is a PvP zone and all of the rewards it contains require the risks of PvP to obtain. Cyrodiil is a wartorn zone so any other version of it would not be lore friendly and has no place in ESO; trying to spin it as for "performance" reasons isn't going to change this.
Even if any version of Cyrodill were to ever exist without the risks of PvP, it would need to be a rewardless zone. No skyshards. No set drops. No quest completion rewards. No achievements.
There's quite a bit of different content in this game. People need to have fun with the content they enjoy and stop trying to force the rest of it to conform to their narrow perspectives.
Meh I take no real risk for any of those things. I think I have gotten killed grabbing skyshards all of twice. And I have all the cyro skyshards on multiple toons.
Most times I am in Cyro I am not contributing to the alliance war whatsoever and am generally left alone.Edited by spartaxoxo on May 3, 2019 8:32PM0 -
sp_korshun✭✭✭I have a dream, that one day we will have 3 versions of Cyro.
Version 1. True PvP. As OP said without all PvE delves, skyshards etc. with smaller map of the similar shape, to make war more active and fast, maybe even with "special" PvP version of skills, for separating PvP and PvE balances.
Version 2. True PvE. All PvE from Old Cyro is here. Maybe with "upgraded" mobs nd hurtfull enviroment to make it more hard. No AP, no PvP achievements (like emperor, pvp ranks, killing of smn, capturing etc.), no PvP sets, rewards and golden vendor.
Version 3. True Cyro Restoration (PvE Chapter). The war is ended, and we need to restore our Empire, to rebuilt our cities and to kill some new monsters in new trials, dungeons, delves, open world etc.
But it's only a dream :'(3 -
Kalgert✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »What I don't understand is why PvP Players want PvE Players in the same instance? Padding stats?
PvP folks are so deadset against giving PvE their own instance. Usually the argument is given, it will reduce the population for PvP?
How? PvE dont go there to fight others. If I am in Cyrodiil, no PvP player sees me (I know how to avoid other players) so how does my presence benefit them?
I'm want PVEers in the same instance because because reducing the amount of players who ever try out PVP is not a good way to get new players out of their PVE comfort zone and into PVP.
No. Go to Coldharbour you N'wah.
Just because you happened to fall in love with PvP, doesn't mean everyone else will, and it's likely nit many people actually will step in to Cyrodiil as folks who don't like PvP, and magically become PvP lovers. To think that is living an idealistic fantasy.
I thought I was gonna enjoy Cyrodiil. Turns out I didn't, and I have no interest being in it due to it being PvP only. So it getting a PvE variant so PvE players can get out of the way of the hardest of core PvP players sounds like a win for both sides.
... Unless you hate the idea of both sides benefiting from something, in which case you're a selfish N'wah.4 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »No, the argument is that most PvE players want to get everything in Cyrodiil (achievements, skyshards, skill lines, etc) without actually playing PvP, whereas PvP players would still need to do PvE (from item sets to sky shards to Undaunted 9 to Guild skill lines etc).
On the other hand, if I went to Cyro to do "PvE" things (I would like to explore/experience it someday. But I also said that about raids in WoW, and never ended up seeing them.), I wouldn't be PvPing..... because I don't consider periodically getting killed by some wandering damage as "PvP". I wouldn't be fighting back, I wouldn't be providing any actual entertainment or challenge for the PvPer who killed me, I wouldn't be interacting with them at all except in being a larger looking 'critter' that they stomped without effort.
Raids in WoW were.... like a job, AFTER I'd retired. And the fact that most of them were on a pvp server.... was SO NOT FUN. Sure the only people in the raid were guildies.... but getting ganked in the "lobby" sucked huge boulders through little bitty straws.
Which is one reason why I will never pvp again.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »What I don't understand is why PvP Players want PvE Players in the same instance? Padding stats?
PvP folks are so deadset against giving PvE their own instance. Usually the argument is given, it will reduce the population for PvP?
How? PvE dont go there to fight others. If I am in Cyrodiil, no PvP player sees me (I know how to avoid other players) so how does my presence benefit them?
I'm want PVEers in the same instance because because reducing the amount of players who ever try out PVP is not a good way to get new players out of their PVE comfort zone and into PVP.
No. Go to Coldharbour you N'wah.
Just because you happened to fall in love with PvP, doesn't mean everyone else will, and it's likely nit many people actually will step in to Cyrodiil as folks who don't like PvP, and magically become PvP lovers. To think that is living an idealistic fantasy.
I thought I was gonna enjoy Cyrodiil. Turns out I didn't, and I have no interest being in it due to it being PvP only. So it getting a PvE variant so PvE players can get out of the way of the hardest of core PvP players sounds like a win for both sides.
... Unless you hate the idea of both sides benefiting from something, in which case you're a selfish N'wah.
Someone's roleplaying a hostile Dunmer today, I see.
I pointed out that not everyone likes PVP. That's not really the point. The point is that more players try it out.
ZOS looks at the overall game population, and over all the game, they want players to try new things to get out of their comfort zone. Maybe they like it and stay, maybe they hate it forever and leave, maybe they dabble...but lots of players won't ever try unless they are forced. Usually it's the fear of missing out that forces them out of their comfort zone.
And we see ZOS using this more and more. Think about all the festivals we've had since the Indrik was introduced and how ZOS keeps expecting us to do ALL of the game modes if we want ALL of the rewards. The festivals, and the majority of the Cyrodiil rewards fall into two categories:
A. You have to play ALL of the base game if you want the rewards for playing ALL of the base game - and that includes Cyrodiil as the base game PVP zone
B. You don't "have" to play PVP modes like Cyrodiil or BGs or do the festivals involving them...as long as you can stand missing out on the rewards for doing so. This one applies to all PVE content too, like trials and arenas.
Its less about what I want - though I approve of this design - as much as this design works in ZOS' favor, getting players to get out of their comfort ZOS,e and maybe find new things they enjoy about the game.
If you reply, drop the insults. I've got no interest in debating with you further if you can't stay civil.Edited by VaranisArano on May 4, 2019 12:25AM1 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »What I don't understand is why PvP Players want PvE Players in the same instance? Padding stats?
PvP folks are so deadset against giving PvE their own instance. Usually the argument is given, it will reduce the population for PvP?
How? PvE dont go there to fight others. If I am in Cyrodiil, no PvP player sees me (I know how to avoid other players) so how does my presence benefit them?
I'm want PVEers in the same instance because because reducing the amount of players who ever try out PVP is not a good way to get new players out of their PVE comfort zone and into PVP.
No. Go to Coldharbour you N'wah.
Just because you happened to fall in love with PvP, doesn't mean everyone else will, and it's likely nit many people actually will step in to Cyrodiil as folks who don't like PvP, and magically become PvP lovers. To think that is living an idealistic fantasy.
I thought I was gonna enjoy Cyrodiil. Turns out I didn't, and I have no interest being in it due to it being PvP only. So it getting a PvE variant so PvE players can get out of the way of the hardest of core PvP players sounds like a win for both sides.
... Unless you hate the idea of both sides benefiting from something, in which case you're a selfish N'wah.
I want a PVP version of Vet Dungeons and Trials. I'd definitely love to never have to PVE in order to get gear for PVP.0 -
ThanatosXR✭✭✭Cryo is already a horse simulatior, you want that doubled down, if anything a few zones.
The pvp is making the lag on top of poor network design and netcode.
Pve elements proceed on clients
Rift had more pve elements and open worls pvp and never lagged, simply do to higher quality software and network.
From a technical standpoint the programmers had true skill, to bad the game was meh.
https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/mmorpg7.htmEdited by ThanatosXR on May 4, 2019 1:43AM0 -
bigelle.x3_ESO✭✭✭There is already a pve version of cyrodiil. Just head to shor or sheogorath or whatever the equivalent is on eu.1
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Kolzki✭✭✭✭✭Can we also remove pvp builds from dungeons? I joke of course, but I wonder how many of these supposed PVE players actually want to PVP but don't have the experience/builds.
The fact that cyrodiil monthly campaign tier 1 is the single most efficient way to get transmute crystals suggests that someone thinks that cyrodiil needs more players though.0 -
Galwylin✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »I want a PVP version of Vet Dungeons and Trials. I'd definitely love to never have to PVE in order to get gear for PVP.
Unless I'm remembering it wrong, I thought PvPers have access to every set in the game (maybe not the newest but then those are usually the saddest) without ever entering a dungeon. Could have sworn last time I was in the sewers we could buy canisters for a random piece of a set. And the Golden Vendor actually sells jewelry better than you ever have a chance of getting just PvE.
I don't think the request to open Cyrodiil up for all players is unreasonable. The game does one thing I absolute hate when they balance due to PvP (it should be separated). And I don't mind PvP. But no one is satisfied when you're trying to design a game around both. We get these balance patches where abilities magically change effects or names. Or classes get beat down. I raged quit the game over that once.
What I think would be best would simply to make a War Mode type option like WoW did. You just have to be in a certain safe place to activate on or off. Which would open the whole world up for world PvP though its most likely finding opponents would be even worse than the travel in Cyrodiil (my biggest dislike of the place). But it would allow those that want to go everywhere without PvP to do so and those who want it can have it anywhere. And with three factions, its unlikely to have the same problem WoW did where one was overly present. Leaving the other two just keeping it off due to not feeling they had a chance. With three factions, we're probably not going to see that happen. Maybe they could just team up against the big one (maybe actually introduce alliances where two can join against one without friendly fire making it a mess).
Truly, if ZoS wanted players to experience the entire game, thus mixing PvE with PvP then they never should have allowed PvP access to any PvE items without doing the PvE. Much the same that you open yourself up to PvP if you want those skyshards. Most importantly, those items should never have been functional in PvP since you don't earn them in that manner. Monster sets are terrible to introduce in PvP. They, and some of the sets, just help make it more burst. I personally think PvP operates best when fights are a bit slower. And the players skill and abilities used. Not some big bear popping out of your boot to maul a full health target to death while you were busy drinking a potion.
It really seems the big fear of allowing those access to things is then people won't be there for PvP. PvP should be fun on its own merits and I think it sounds like no one believes that which is something ZOS should take notice of and start addressing. Let go of whatever vision they keep holding on to and actually make people want to play it instead of bribing them into. BGs were a good step and the best PvP content they created. That wide open space of a couple of zergs built around automatic boot damage isn't fun no matter if you're fighting it or part of it. I still haven't gotten all the Cyrodiil delves and skyshards because its just the most boring zone. There definitely isn't enough keep attacks and defense for my taste. Always completely lopsided no matter which you are making them uninteresting diversions so I'd rather spend the time progression through Cadwell's or some pledges than being bored to death wondering if there's a decent siege happening that I can reach before its over.
There's a big part of me that believes they will allow player frustration in the hopes they will get one character through the zone for all the whatevers then pay money for other characters. They have been showing some big EA tendencies of late. I mean selling skyshards isn't the evilest thing. But they could have just sold the option to make the achievement account wide granting them. There's over 15 zones in the base and you know these won't be cheap. Sure, make some money but don't try to make all of the money then talk like its a favor for your customer. I'm not really affected either way since I actually like collecting skyshards plus getting to 50 alone gives you enough points for almost everything you'll need. So, I suppose if we ever do see a PvP-less Cyrodiil, we'll be paying for it extra and sending out thank you cards even though we technically paid for the zone when we bought the game. So, whatever.
All just my opinion.0 -
SpringEternal✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »What I don't understand is why PvP Players want PvE Players in the same instance? Padding stats?
PvP folks are so deadset against giving PvE their own instance. Usually the argument is given, it will reduce the population for PvP?
How? PvE dont go there to fight others. If I am in Cyrodiil, no PvP player sees me (I know how to avoid other players) so how does my presence benefit them?
I'm want PVEers in the same instance because because reducing the amount of players who ever try out PVP is not a good way to get new players out of their PVE comfort zone and into PVP.
This comes from my own experience. I was a PVE-only Skyrim player who didnt even like grouping up for dungeons. PVP terrified me. But I wanted those Master Angler fish. So I went into Cyrodiil, not intending to fight but prepared to die when PVP found me in a PVP zone.
I got my fish. I got ganked a couple times, as expected. I even got my first kill - a vamp jumped my MagDK and I Burning Embersed them to death.
I still hated Cyrodiil. But I still wanted those rewards. Skyshards. Delve bosses. Dolmens.
Eventually, I went back to Cyrodiil to try out PVP for itself. I sucked, I got better, I found a PVP guild and with their training and friendship, I became a PVPer.
It all started from ZOS' design of expecting players to play ALL of the game if they want ALL of the rewards. I'm in favor of that design. Certainly, getting me out of my PVE comfort zone worked, and brought me into a whole new form of gameplay I'd initially dismissed and has since brought me over two years of enjoyment.
Not everyone has that experience, certainly. But I see the value in expecting players to be in a PVP zone if they want the rewards of that PVP zone. It's about getting players to experience ALL that the game has to offer, even if they don't like that form of gameplay. Not every player will try and not ever player will stay, but enough players discover that "Huh, this isnt so bad" or "Okay, this is fun" that it brings in new blood (and this is true of all types of content, which we see with the festivals now - dungeons, arenas, and trials included.)
My first outing in Cyrodiil, I got ganked by a nightblade camping the skyshard in Vlastarus. It wasn't fun, just baffling. I managed to stealth my way through collecting all the other skyshards and didn't set foot in the zone again until much later. What finally motivated me to go back were the skills locked behind the Assault skill line and the Midyear Mayhem event. After successfully defending a couple keeps, I realized there was indeed some fun to be had.
I agree that encouraging players to explore outside their comfort zones is worthwhile. But players only there for skyshards and achievements are more likely to get frustrated than encouraged when trying to "peacefully" do PvE activities in a PvP zone. Like you said yourself, when you went there for fishing and PvE rewards you "still hated Cyrodill." It's only when you went to "try PvP out for itself" that you learned to appreciate it.
The better bet to encourage new players is providing extra incentives for actual PvP activities. And that can still be done even if a PvE-only Cyrodiil was a thing. Players would still be motivated to actually try PvP for festival rewards, arena gladiator proofs, extra transmutation crystals, tel-var, alliance points and skills, etc.2 -
Kalgert✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »What I don't understand is why PvP Players want PvE Players in the same instance? Padding stats?
PvP folks are so deadset against giving PvE their own instance. Usually the argument is given, it will reduce the population for PvP?
How? PvE dont go there to fight others. If I am in Cyrodiil, no PvP player sees me (I know how to avoid other players) so how does my presence benefit them?
I'm want PVEers in the same instance because because reducing the amount of players who ever try out PVP is not a good way to get new players out of their PVE comfort zone and into PVP.
No. Go to Coldharbour you N'wah.
Just because you happened to fall in love with PvP, doesn't mean everyone else will, and it's likely nit many people actually will step in to Cyrodiil as folks who don't like PvP, and magically become PvP lovers. To think that is living an idealistic fantasy.
I thought I was gonna enjoy Cyrodiil. Turns out I didn't, and I have no interest being in it due to it being PvP only. So it getting a PvE variant so PvE players can get out of the way of the hardest of core PvP players sounds like a win for both sides.
... Unless you hate the idea of both sides benefiting from something, in which case you're a selfish N'wah.
Someone's roleplaying a hostile Dunmer today, I see.
I pointed out that not everyone likes PVP. That's not really the point. The point is that more players try it out.
ZOS looks at the overall game population, and over all the game, they want players to try new things to get out of their comfort zone. Maybe they like it and stay, maybe they hate it forever and leave, maybe they dabble...but lots of players won't ever try unless they are forced. Usually it's the fear of missing out that forces them out of their comfort zone.
And we see ZOS using this more and more. Think about all the festivals we've had since the Indrik was introduced and how ZOS keeps expecting us to do ALL of the game modes if we want ALL of the rewards. The festivals, and the majority of the Cyrodiil rewards fall into two categories:
A. You have to play ALL of the base game if you want the rewards for playing ALL of the base game - and that includes Cyrodiil as the base game PVP zone
B. You don't "have" to play PVP modes like Cyrodiil or BGs or do the festivals involving them...as long as you can stand missing out on the rewards for doing so. This one applies to all PVE content too, like trials and arenas.
Its less about what I want - though I approve of this design - as much as this design works in ZOS' favor, getting players to get out of their comfort ZOS,e and maybe find new things they enjoy about the game.
If you reply, drop the insults. I've got no interest in debating with you further if you can't stay civil.
Well, it's more forum appropriate than if I were to say "Go to Hell you pompous idiot", but I digress.
Yes, that is the point you tried to make. And I consider the point to be absolutely stupid, as many folks have most likely pointed out (And as I pointed out): if people REALLY don't like something, then they will either avoid it entirely, or do it once for something and never ever go back to it again. And I will still think that people suddenly falling in love with the PvP because they go to Cyrodiil for PvE centered purposes is a fantasy devised by a madman.
Zenimax Online Software's free to "Inspire people to try everything out" (Although how that effective is, I don't know...), and I am free to take their PvP and take a crap all over it.
Also, I farted after reading your last paragraph. That's how much I respect the notion of "Debating" with you (Although hard to call this debating, as you didn't put forward any good points *shrug emoji*)2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »What I don't understand is why PvP Players want PvE Players in the same instance? Padding stats?
PvP folks are so deadset against giving PvE their own instance. Usually the argument is given, it will reduce the population for PvP?
How? PvE dont go there to fight others. If I am in Cyrodiil, no PvP player sees me (I know how to avoid other players) so how does my presence benefit them?
I'm want PVEers in the same instance because because reducing the amount of players who ever try out PVP is not a good way to get new players out of their PVE comfort zone and into PVP.
No. Go to Coldharbour you N'wah.
Just because you happened to fall in love with PvP, doesn't mean everyone else will, and it's likely nit many people actually will step in to Cyrodiil as folks who don't like PvP, and magically become PvP lovers. To think that is living an idealistic fantasy.
I thought I was gonna enjoy Cyrodiil. Turns out I didn't, and I have no interest being in it due to it being PvP only. So it getting a PvE variant so PvE players can get out of the way of the hardest of core PvP players sounds like a win for both sides.
... Unless you hate the idea of both sides benefiting from something, in which case you're a selfish N'wah.
Someone's roleplaying a hostile Dunmer today, I see.
I pointed out that not everyone likes PVP. That's not really the point. The point is that more players try it out.
ZOS looks at the overall game population, and over all the game, they want players to try new things to get out of their comfort zone. Maybe they like it and stay, maybe they hate it forever and leave, maybe they dabble...but lots of players won't ever try unless they are forced. Usually it's the fear of missing out that forces them out of their comfort zone.
And we see ZOS using this more and more. Think about all the festivals we've had since the Indrik was introduced and how ZOS keeps expecting us to do ALL of the game modes if we want ALL of the rewards. The festivals, and the majority of the Cyrodiil rewards fall into two categories:
A. You have to play ALL of the base game if you want the rewards for playing ALL of the base game - and that includes Cyrodiil as the base game PVP zone
B. You don't "have" to play PVP modes like Cyrodiil or BGs or do the festivals involving them...as long as you can stand missing out on the rewards for doing so. This one applies to all PVE content too, like trials and arenas.
Its less about what I want - though I approve of this design - as much as this design works in ZOS' favor, getting players to get out of their comfort ZOS,e and maybe find new things they enjoy about the game.
If you reply, drop the insults. I've got no interest in debating with you further if you can't stay civil.
Well, it's more forum appropriate than if I were to say "Go to Hell you pompous idiot", but I digress.
Yes, that is the point you tried to make. And I consider the point to be absolutely stupid, as many folks have most likely pointed out (And as I pointed out): if people REALLY don't like something, then they will either avoid it entirely, or do it once for something and never ever go back to it again. And I will still think that people suddenly falling in love with the PvP because they go to Cyrodiil for PvE centered purposes is a fantasy devised by a madman.
Zenimax Online Software's free to "Inspire people to try everything out" (Although how that effective is, I don't know...), and I am free to take their PvP and take a crap all over it.
Also, I farted after reading your last paragraph. That's how much I respect the notion of "Debating" with you (Although hard to call this debating, as you didn't put forward any good points *shrug emoji*)
Okay, then we disagree with each other's fundamental point of view. Good to know.
You can think I'm wrong.
I think ZOS deliberately encourages players to try out ALL of the game via gating rewards behind different game modes and using the fear of missing out to get many (not all) players out of their comfort zone. I think there's benefit to that for the longevity of the game, and especially for a game that deliberately balances PVP amd PVE together. And as my experience shows for PVP, ZOS encouraging players try things they thought they hated sometimes works. It my case it wasn't sudden, but it was a gradual process that only started because I went to Cyrodiil for PVE purposes. Not always - my SO doesnt like PVP even after trying it. But sometimes - two of my other PVE friends had a similar experience as I did.
In any case, we're apparently going to have to agree to disagree, which usually means futher debate is pointless.
Have a great day!Edited by VaranisArano on May 4, 2019 12:27PM1 -
Lord_Ninka✭✭✭Aboslutely. Luring people who aren't interested in PvP into a PvP zone is really poor design and should be changed. It's not fun for PvP'ers, it's not fun for PvE'ers.
I'd be ok with delves and towns still existing in pvp cyrodiil, because a few may enjoy the PvE-PvP mix, but all the people who don't shouldn't have to. When people are dragged into PvP against their will, it ruins their good time and it's super bad PvP for those who actually want it.Edited by Lord_Ninka on May 4, 2019 12:23PM2 -
Sahidom✭✭✭✭I want my pvp to run smooth, and I want to pvp against other pvp players, to that end (and another world reason) I really want a pve version of Cyrodill
first the pvp side:
I want pve'rs out of my pvp zone, I don't want people taking up pop cap on any faction just so they can go do quests, get skyshards, do dungeons, etc. the same reason imperial city is getting its own queue, overland pvp wants the players exclusively in it and contributing to the alliance war in some fashion (or AFK in keeps, you do you)
to this end I would like it if in the pvp version of cyrodiil:
-dungeon access was removed
-overland mobs were removed
-resource nodes were removed
this is all pve stuff that does have an effect on performance (remember the great deer purge to reduce lag) just get all that stuff out, remove those calculations on the server and let us just fight.
for the pve side
I want the pve version of cyrodiil to not be an alliance war queue but a part of the overworld map and the gates opened up on those respective zones connecting to cyrodiil, I want to be able to walk from eastmarch, down into the rift, into cyro, through cyro, down to the rawl gate, into rawl, to malbal tor, and into greenshade. it would be really cool to be able to actually TRAVERSE through the world to various alliances without having to use shrine, I really think this needs to be a goal for the zones going forward (except where you HAVE to take a boat, obviously) its called one tamriel, make it so!
this version can have dungeon access, the overland mobs, resources, town quests, etc.
I completely disagree with the OP. The original reason why EA divided their world into multiple worlds with the same rule sets (Felucca and Trammel) was to separate the player-verse-player and player-verse-NPC/environment because of this type of attitude towards the other players; eventually, segregating the population with the advocacy that it would improve the game. However, EA was trying to hold subscribers in lieu of the player issues/attitudes in 2000.
I would be surprised and disappointed should ZOS decide to move forward with this type of decision. When this game was launched, it tested the mass combat/client connectivity performance to handle over 10,000 participants in one area. It might be more productive to politely request ZOS to validate/verify whether their original pre-release claims about Cyrodiil's game performance is part of the planned maintenance of the software.0
