Tonnopesce wrote: »

I play both, Tank is more relaxed, you do your job and everything is fine, most of the time you care only for yourself.
Healing is a mess, expecially if you heal with something that is not a templar.
At the beginning of a dungeon usually i tend to remember that i heal with a warden and to not run like crazy because i dont have the pug carry feature (BOL).
Is just amazing to see how much damage some people can take and how much they can "stand in stupid".

It's a mess even with Templar now to be honest. Breath of Life was nerfed and has a frontal targeting now - so if players are behind you or off to the side of you you can't heal them. It's annoying as ____.

To be honest, if I was to ever do it over again I'd try out sorcerer now to heal with because at least their burst heal is omnidirectional.

Jeremy wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

I play both, Tank is more relaxed, you do your job and everything is fine, most of the time you care only for yourself.
Healing is a mess, expecially if you heal with something that is not a templar.
At the beginning of a dungeon usually i tend to remember that i heal with a warden and to not run like crazy because i dont have the pug carry feature (BOL).
Is just amazing to see how much damage some people can take and how much they can "stand in stupid".

It's a mess even with Templar now to be honest. Breath of Life was nerfed and has a frontal targeting now - so if players are behind you or off to the side of you you can't heal them. It's annoying as ____.

To be honest, if I was to do it over again I'd go sorcerer now to heal with because at least their burst heal is omnidirectional.

Still with good psitioning i can save a lot more situation on my tempar that on my warden.
Is different, with the warden you try to prevent damage , with the templar you always have BOL, a skill that can heal for 20-24k crit plus something on another target is really helpful.
Now this is not a who can do the healer better kind of thread, we can all agree that every role is important but healer tend to be a little more difficult to do.

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

I play both, Tank is more relaxed, you do your job and everything is fine, most of the time you care only for yourself.
Healing is a mess, expecially if you heal with something that is not a templar.
At the beginning of a dungeon usually i tend to remember that i heal with a warden and to not run like crazy because i dont have the pug carry feature (BOL).
Is just amazing to see how much damage some people can take and how much they can "stand in stupid".

It's a mess even with Templar now to be honest. Breath of Life was nerfed and has a frontal targeting now - so if players are behind you or off to the side of you you can't heal them. It's annoying as ____.

To be honest, if I was to do it over again I'd go sorcerer now to heal with because at least their burst heal is omnidirectional.

Still with good psitioning i can save a lot more situation on my tempar that on my warden.
Is different, with the warden you try to prevent damage , with the templar you always have BOL, a skill that can heal for 20-24k crit plus something on another target is really helpful.
Now this is not a who can do the healer better kind of thread, we can all agree that every role is important but healer tend to be a little more difficult to do.

Key phrase there being with good positioning. I gave up on that a long time ago in most pugs.

I'm not familiar with Warden healing so I'm not suggesting Templars have it harder than Wardens. I just wanted to make the point that Breath of Life isn't nearly as good as it used to be.

Dps

Runefang wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Another thing, I will never ever be kicked as a tank. As a healer there is always the possibility. Dps can be cycled through faster than underwear. If you aren’t up to snuff as a dps, bye bye. That’s why I Tank on 5 characters and heal on my main.

So... what you're saying is your dps is bad? ^^

You can't be serious how is that what he's saying? I've had the same experience. Groups are quite willing to put up with a mediocre tank or healer, mainly because it takes so long to find another one. DPS on the other hand can be replaced within seconds of being dropped.

Since it is a group activity, it takes good teamwork to be effective. As others have mentioned, good dps can end a fight quickly. This makes it easier on healer and tank.

Due to resource management, my opinion is that healing is slightly harder than tanking in ESO.

worrallj wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Another thing, I will never ever be kicked as a tank. As a healer there is always the possibility. Dps can be cycled through faster than underwear. If you aren’t up to snuff as a dps, bye bye. That’s why I Tank on 5 characters and heal on my main.

So... what you're saying is your dps is bad? ^^

You can't be serious how is that what he's saying? I've had the same experience. Groups are quite willing to put up with a mediocre tank or healer, mainly because it takes so long to find another one. DPS on the other hand can be replaced within seconds of being dropped.

Indeed. If DPS really was the harder role, then why are they a dime a dozen and so easily replaced?

worrallj wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Another thing, I will never ever be kicked as a tank. As a healer there is always the possibility. Dps can be cycled through faster than underwear. If you aren’t up to snuff as a dps, bye bye. That’s why I Tank on 5 characters and heal on my main.

So... what you're saying is your dps is bad? ^^

You can't be serious how is that what he's saying? I've had the same experience. Groups are quite willing to put up with a mediocre tank or healer, mainly because it takes so long to find another one. DPS on the other hand can be replaced within seconds of being dropped.

Well it was a joke. But my point was you don't worry about being replaced as a dps if you are up to snuff. Simples.

Ertosi wrote: »

worrallj wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Another thing, I will never ever be kicked as a tank. As a healer there is always the possibility. Dps can be cycled through faster than underwear. If you aren’t up to snuff as a dps, bye bye. That’s why I Tank on 5 characters and heal on my main.

So... what you're saying is your dps is bad? ^^

You can't be serious how is that what he's saying? I've had the same experience. Groups are quite willing to put up with a mediocre tank or healer, mainly because it takes so long to find another one. DPS on the other hand can be replaced within seconds of being dropped.

Indeed. If DPS really was the harder role, then why are they a dime a dozen and so easily replaced?

It depends on the context you're talking about. If its end-game vet trials, they aren't so easily replaced because not many pull 50k+.

If it's pugs in dungeons, sure they're easily replaced and they're often replaced by yet another bad DPSer. Just because the pool of players in this role is large it doesn't mean the quality is good. It's just an attractive role to play and most people don't know they're bad.

Most important and most difficult role in this game is still being a DD who is worth its weight. Especially when I have a look on the hundreds or even thousands of crap DDs I ever encountered in PUGs, I am absolutely convinced that being a good DD demands a certain lvl of game mechanic knowledge which radiates into proper gear and skill decisions, experience and agility/exercise and awareness to prevent inc damage as good as possible.

...but ok, when you narrow it down to tank and healer I would choose healer. Simply because I play all 3 roles on a regular base and while being a tank is work and doing it right (aggrokeeping, positioning, drawing mobs together, but the most important is debuffing and support aka warhorn and else, control of own ressources) is even more work, a healer has to manage healing, support, ressources AND has to care for his own survival by a much higher degree as a tank. The later becomes obvious in instances where hardmode bosses distribute random onehit attacks, while a tank due to his resistances can survive many of them easily, a healer won't.

...but to be honest, the difference in difficulty between healer or tank is not really big. DDs on the other side...as more dps (and there are DDs out there who do thrice and more of the damage a bad DD will do) as easier and failproof will be an encounter.

Ertosi wrote: »

worrallj wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Another thing, I will never ever be kicked as a tank. As a healer there is always the possibility. Dps can be cycled through faster than underwear. If you aren’t up to snuff as a dps, bye bye. That’s why I Tank on 5 characters and heal on my main.

So... what you're saying is your dps is bad? ^^

You can't be serious how is that what he's saying? I've had the same experience. Groups are quite willing to put up with a mediocre tank or healer, mainly because it takes so long to find another one. DPS on the other hand can be replaced within seconds of being dropped.

Indeed. If DPS really was the harder role, then why are they a dime a dozen and so easily replaced?

because even bad dps tends to have easier time leveling. however. even basic competence on dps is harder then basic competence on tank or a healer. all things being equal.

consider for a moment, why is it that whenever you are building a content clearing group - dps has the most entry requirements placed on them? no, its not becasue dps is common. its becasue THAT much of your success depends on dps.

Imo DPS have the more complex rotations and require much more animation cancelling. However there’s a lot more pressure on healers and tanks because ultimately you’re responsible for keeping people alive and controlling the flow of battle while DPS does their job. Being good at any requires decent knowledge of the game and mechanics.

A group can carry a less than optimal healer but without a decent tank even in normal difficulty a group can fail to finish the dungeon.

I know because I my main is one of those rare tanks that queue for randoms.

While most of the time you will get a good group and clear the dungeon in 20 - 30 minutes.

Every now and then you get a group with such low DPS, that you get to experience every mechanic the boss fight's have.



I will give you a couple examples in Falkreath hold dungeon: (I will admit the rest of the group was lower level healer was about CP 100 and the DPS were between CP 170 - 200, while my tank was over CP 600 at the time)

The fight against the 3 bosses that merge into a giant boneman, with the mechanic of the insta kill winds/circle around the fight area. I had to rez the whole dam group while getting attacked by the boss, constantly interrupted by the ghosts.

That was more due to not knowing mechanics than anyone's specific fault but without a good tank the group would have given up.

The fight with the powerful Undead Warrior that keeps raising more undead, which you have to cleanse with urns, had 3 wipes during that fight because the DPS and healer could not figure out the mechanic causing ads to overwhelm them leaving me the tank left standing, with me getting killed rezing group members.

The healer who invited me to queue with him for the dungeon left, had to wait for a replacement.

After 3 tries, I ignored the rest of the group who had managed to get killed again and focused the boss with the vampire bats ult and tremorscale monster set as my main sources of damage, completely ignoring the ads until the boss was killed and the group was able to move on.

That was a case of the rest of the party not bothering to learn how and when to use the urns. X synergy near the glowing urns and X again over the glowing bodies of the ads and me losing patience.

Had no trouble with the last boss though.


I have had many dungeons where the rest of the group will suddenly get killed and their typing in chat more or less "how are you not dead" My response is always simple "Tank"

both are the same, since the high end meta guys now expect tanks and healers to do between 10- 20k dps

Ertosi wrote: »

worrallj wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Another thing, I will never ever be kicked as a tank. As a healer there is always the possibility. Dps can be cycled through faster than underwear. If you aren’t up to snuff as a dps, bye bye. That’s why I Tank on 5 characters and heal on my main.

So... what you're saying is your dps is bad? ^^

You can't be serious how is that what he's saying? I've had the same experience. Groups are quite willing to put up with a mediocre tank or healer, mainly because it takes so long to find another one. DPS on the other hand can be replaced within seconds of being dropped.

Indeed. If DPS really was the harder role, then why are they a dime a dozen and so easily replaced?

I'm pretty sure it's mostly because most people play solo as well, and soloing as a tank or healer is painfully, stupidly slow. If it weren't for that I would tank & heal all day for the faster ques. The convenience of being able to run the same build is pretty massive.

As someone who fluently plays all 3 roles I find that, like many here, its situational. However anyone who knows me knows I love a challenge and as such I main a healer whenever possible. I find DPS kinda in the middle, not easiest but not hardest, but since that's not what this poll is about I won't go into why.

I find tanks to be boring and far too easy, this changes based on content and group of course, such as a werewolf constantly fearing all the adds you pull in (had this happen the other day... the joy of pugs), or tanking vFang Lair or vHoF. One may argue that tanks have it hard because they need to taunt boss, adds, and apply buffs/debuffs. While yes this is difficult to master once you do master it, its like second nature. Alkosh is mostly reliant upon getting synergies in the first place, and the only other buffs you need other than what keeps you alive is engulfing flames if there isn't a magDK in group (unless there's no mag dps), fracture/breech which is applied with your taunt and maybe igneous weapons.

Healers can be boring and easy too, if you only spam springs that is. The thing about healers that makes them harder than Tanks and DPS is they don't really have a rotation. Sure they have certain skills they need to use at certain times and certain buffs to always keep up but it doesn't make a rotation like the DPS and Tanks have. You have to remember to put down your blockade of storms every 8 seconds on the boss, keep combat prayer up on the DPS every 7 seconds so it keeps 100% uptime, apply power of the light (if there's no stamplars) every 6 seconds, put ele drain on the boss every 24 seconds, supply a steady flow of orbs and shards, and the whole while making sure people don't die by watching them like a hawk and squeezing in springs where you can. Oh and god forbid if you run out of resources. You're the one supplying resources, not getting them.

TL;DR: tanks are simple, healers are chaotic