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The problem with Dungeons.
VinxTerranova
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I'm finding that no one wants to queue for the longer dungeons, White-Gold-Tower, Bloodroot Forge, Cradle of Shadows, simply because they take too long and the rewards are the same. How about they give a better incentive for people so they can use Dungeon finder and get better rewards. Why would the rewards be the same for a quick Wayrest Sewers, as the tedious Imperial City Prison? I noticed that as a healer getting good gear was difficult. I needed to grind Veteran White Gold Tower, and Bloodroot Forge. Things that once people load into the dungeon, they immediately leave. It made the grind a TERRIBLE experience. I think if ZOS can reward people better for the longer more difficult dungeons, even VET mode, it might make finding dungeons more easier. Half the people still enjoy shouting in Grahtwood, or Craglorn. But this seems ineffective.
Does anyone else have any ideas on how to fix the dungeon finder, and/or get people to queue for the longer dungeons? I know World of Warcraft has a reward system that gives people gold and a bag for queuing as a certain role. I think ZoS should do the same.
Does anyone else have any ideas on how to fix the dungeon finder, and/or get people to queue for the longer dungeons? I know World of Warcraft has a reward system that gives people gold and a bag for queuing as a certain role. I think ZoS should do the same.
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Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's not necessarily a time issue for everyone.
The DLC dungeons are also significantly harder in many cases than the base game dungeons. This is doubly the case if you are talking about queuing for veteran versions. If the DLC dungeons were easier with random groups, I would do them more often. It's not a time issue for me, and I suspect the same is true for many other players. Adding an extra reward wouldn't incentivize me to run it more either, it'd just aggravate me. As it stands, I never get random queue awards anymore unless I'm leveling a character because I don't want to deal with random groups for most DLC dungeons.11 -
LiraTaurwen✭✭✭✭✭There is no problem with dungeons, just people these days are lazy and want everything easy. Devs could add better rewards etc but then more casuals would cry here that dungeons are too difficult.12
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Jameliel✭✭✭✭✭
✭LiraTaurwen wrote: »There is no problem with dungeons, just people these days are lazy and want everything easy. Devs could add better rewards etc but then more casuals would cry here that dungeons are too difficult.
When people in games call other people playing a game "lazy", it makes me laugh. Most people I know sit on their rear end while playing. Clicking buttons with fingers isnt exactly hard work for most. The loot and rewards in ESO are famously weak, especially when compared to other classic MMOs. Referring to other players as "casuals" who may not share your opinion, while dismissing the OPs concerns is dogmatic. Better dungeon rewards and loot in general would definitely benefit everyone.27 -
LiraTaurwen✭✭✭✭✭Better dungeon rewards and loot in general would definitely benefit everyone.
Yes it would but people would still complaint that some dungeons are too hard or too time consuming etc... it's a neverending cycle. Put good loot on those dungeons so people will want to do them and others will cry that the best loot is too hard to get.
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Chims✭✭✭Id argue that the rewards are better for DLC dungeons. The sets that drop are usually better than anything that drops in non dlc.4
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DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭My problem with dungeons is that they're dark and full of mobs.
They'd be so much more fun if I could just saunter in, loot them and leave.
Oh... and the puzzles.
I loathe puzzles.1 -
sionIV✭✭✭✭✭When the innitial honeymoon period is over, it comes down to efficiency. A 10 minute dungeon with 0% chance to wipe/fail is more efficient than a 25 minute dungeon with 25% chance to wipe. It's faster and more efficient to farm a set on normal and then upgrade it (minus jewelry, unless you're rich) than it is to farm it on veteran.3
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karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fix port in/out bug. Done. Add the old random, but make it once per acct to specific dungeon que, move the original to the new random that doesn't allow players to pick FG1 farm.Edited by karekiz on May 1, 2019 6:03PM5 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm on the fence about it. The idea makes sense, but with higher rewards you're likely to see more people, and likely more people who aren't really ready for them. You've probably already seen that in the past when someone shows up vCoS for Velidreths or vBRF for Earthgore because they saw it in a popular build and don't have a clue what they're in for.
As far as the rewards, are they really that big of a deal? Your example was Wayrest Sewers 1 vs Imperial City Prison. The odds of you clearing Wayrest on hard mode are much higher than they are in Imperial City Prison for sure, so you will get an extra key and one or more extra transmute crystal(s). I'd rather run vICP or vBRF than I had run vWS1 or vFG1 though. I prefer the challenge. The idea that I must do something for the shinies is one that I am not a fan of.
I PUG them a fair amount. Definitely more than I would normals and most likely more than I do base game vets. I see people bail as soon as they zone in from time to time. I see people shocked when they come to the realization that there is a significant jump in difficulty. Mostly they are pretty relaxed though. I wouldn't want that to change.0 -
LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It’s not the reward system, it’s the time and difficulty. Increasing the rewards will not inspire more people to run them. Making the DLC dungeons comparable to the non-DLC dungeons with respect to time and difficulty will encourage more people to run them. The DLC dungeons are just like the base game prior to the content difficulty nerf in July 2014.0 -
VinxTerranova✭✭✭Agenericname wrote: »I'm on the fence about it. The idea makes sense, but with higher rewards you're likely to see more people, and likely more people who aren't really ready for them. You've probably already seen that in the past when someone shows up vCoS for Velidreths or vBRF for Earthgore because they saw it in a popular build and don't have a clue what they're in for.
As far as the rewards, are they really that big of a deal? Your example was Wayrest Sewers 1 vs Imperial City Prison. The odds of you clearing Wayrest on hard mode are much higher than they are in Imperial City Prison for sure, so you will get an extra key and one or more extra transmute crystal(s). I'd rather run vICP or vBRF than I had run vWS1 or vFG1 though. I prefer the challenge. The idea that I must do something for the shinies is one that I am not a fan of.
I PUG them a fair amount. Definitely more than I would normals and most likely more than I do base game vets. I see people bail as soon as they zone in from time to time. I see people shocked when they come to the realization that there is a significant jump in difficulty. Mostly they are pretty relaxed though. I wouldn't want that to change.
I just want it to be easier for me to get a group. I don't know why people leave, I figured time or difficulty. So something to help the healers. Cause everyone runs HRC, SO, etc, maybe some AA here and there. But CR, WGT, BRF, are difficult to get people to queue up for. Getting gear as a healer sucks. So I was trying to think of an incentive to get people to run the harder dungeons, extra keys? That's a joke. Monster sets aren't for healers. Earthgore, yes. That's one, but you don't get the mask from the chest. And that's it. Maybe Symphony of the Blades. But the old/new healer sets are/were a pain.
Tanks don't want to queue for Cloudrest cause they don't need any sets from there. But LOTS of healers in Craglorn need Olorime. So I just want some extra incentive to help everyone get the sets they need.0 -
MaleAmazon✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm finding that no one wants to queue for the longer dungeons, White-Gold-Tower, Bloodroot Forge, Cradle of Shadows, simply because they take too long and the rewards are the same.
The rewards are not the same. You get higher quality items, better (arguably) sets, higher value motifs (I believe...).
If you are farming OTOH, well farming is basically gain / time.
As for people leaving, that´s what you get in the random queue. Get a tank or healer to speed it up, or join a guild. I got that advice (join a guild) a long time ago and I shunned it for quite some time. Still do I guess. I just don´t feel like being 'social' in an MMO... luckily there are guilds that are just for finding other people who DO want to do dungeons and trials. Just ask around in chat. Good luck.0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've had decent luck (mostly) when getting into DLC dungeons with a pug group. When someone wants to drop I suggest we get to the first boss and see how it goes. If it is obvious our group isn't going to make it we can drop group. Most agree to try. Sometimes we make it to the end sometimes we don't. If the players know you don't mind if it doesn't go well they are more apt to try. People have heard those dungeons are hard so some are afraid to even try.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."3 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VinxTerranova wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »I'm on the fence about it. The idea makes sense, but with higher rewards you're likely to see more people, and likely more people who aren't really ready for them. You've probably already seen that in the past when someone shows up vCoS for Velidreths or vBRF for Earthgore because they saw it in a popular build and don't have a clue what they're in for.
As far as the rewards, are they really that big of a deal? Your example was Wayrest Sewers 1 vs Imperial City Prison. The odds of you clearing Wayrest on hard mode are much higher than they are in Imperial City Prison for sure, so you will get an extra key and one or more extra transmute crystal(s). I'd rather run vICP or vBRF than I had run vWS1 or vFG1 though. I prefer the challenge. The idea that I must do something for the shinies is one that I am not a fan of.
I PUG them a fair amount. Definitely more than I would normals and most likely more than I do base game vets. I see people bail as soon as they zone in from time to time. I see people shocked when they come to the realization that there is a significant jump in difficulty. Mostly they are pretty relaxed though. I wouldn't want that to change.
I just want it to be easier for me to get a group. I don't know why people leave, I figured time or difficulty. So something to help the healers. Cause everyone runs HRC, SO, etc, maybe some AA here and there. But CR, WGT, BRF, are difficult to get people to queue up for. Getting gear as a healer sucks. So I was trying to think of an incentive to get people to run the harder dungeons, extra keys? That's a joke. Monster sets aren't for healers. Earthgore, yes. That's one, but you don't get the mask from the chest. And that's it. Maybe Symphony of the Blades. But the old/new healer sets are/were a pain.
Tanks don't want to queue for Cloudrest cause they don't need any sets from there. But LOTS of healers in Craglorn need Olorime. So I just want some extra incentive to help everyone get the sets they need.
Dont worry about Earthgore it will be nerfed next patch and there are better options. Also dont bother with WGT as Olorime is better than SPC and nCR+0 pops up frequently in Craglorn zone chat. You can pair Olorime with Mending or IA and they ara also easy to farm as Crag trials are done 24/7. You can even pair with Sanctuary set from BC1&2, easy farm .0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VinxTerranova wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »I'm on the fence about it. The idea makes sense, but with higher rewards you're likely to see more people, and likely more people who aren't really ready for them. You've probably already seen that in the past when someone shows up vCoS for Velidreths or vBRF for Earthgore because they saw it in a popular build and don't have a clue what they're in for.
As far as the rewards, are they really that big of a deal? Your example was Wayrest Sewers 1 vs Imperial City Prison. The odds of you clearing Wayrest on hard mode are much higher than they are in Imperial City Prison for sure, so you will get an extra key and one or more extra transmute crystal(s). I'd rather run vICP or vBRF than I had run vWS1 or vFG1 though. I prefer the challenge. The idea that I must do something for the shinies is one that I am not a fan of.
I PUG them a fair amount. Definitely more than I would normals and most likely more than I do base game vets. I see people bail as soon as they zone in from time to time. I see people shocked when they come to the realization that there is a significant jump in difficulty. Mostly they are pretty relaxed though. I wouldn't want that to change.
I just want it to be easier for me to get a group. I don't know why people leave, I figured time or difficulty. So something to help the healers. Cause everyone runs HRC, SO, etc, maybe some AA here and there. But CR, WGT, BRF, are difficult to get people to queue up for. Getting gear as a healer sucks. So I was trying to think of an incentive to get people to run the harder dungeons, extra keys? That's a joke. Monster sets aren't for healers. Earthgore, yes. That's one, but you don't get the mask from the chest. And that's it. Maybe Symphony of the Blades. But the old/new healer sets are/were a pain.
Tanks don't want to queue for Cloudrest cause they don't need any sets from there. But LOTS of healers in Craglorn need Olorime. So I just want some extra incentive to help everyone get the sets they need.
Dont worry about Earthgore it will be nerfed next patch and there are better options. Also dont bother with WGT as Olorime is better than SPC and nCR+0 pops up frequently in Craglorn zone chat. You can pair Olorime with Mending or IA and they ara also easy to farm as Crag trials are done 24/7. You can even pair with Sanctuary set from BC1&2, easy farm .
for dungeons SPC is still very good and for pug dungeons SPC is MUCH better then Olo. why? cause Olo requires your group to stop being headless chickens once every 10 seconds. SPC works as long as they are roughly in range of your heals.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***2 -
Riejael✭✭✭✭✭This is the biggest weakness with ESO. The risk vs reward simply isn't there. There is an entirely lateral line of progression that makes alot of content pretty useless outside needing them for a quest or dye achievement.
There should be a somewhat fuzzy line of progression. With the best sets (and lets be honest some sets are better than others) coming from the harder content.
The sets weakest to strongest should come from these areas in order:
Overland Zones
'I' Dungeons
'II' Dungeons
DLC Dungeons
(actually change the sets, like perfected for Vet content)
Veteran 'I' Dungeons
Veteran 'II' Dungeons
Veteran DLC Dungeons
Trials
Veteran Trials
This way people have a choice. You can do the harder content for the better gear. Or work your way into better gear by progressively getting lower tier gear to get that slight advantage you need.0 -
ThanatosXR✭✭✭Lack of meta ruins ESO, the other mmos I've play(lotro,rift,swtor)have way more systems build to run with another, lotro was my longest played 2009-2013, besides being a lotr fan its design flowed into each other, there were deeds, skirmishes, instances, Reputation, real 12 raid dungeons not just some tank a spank a boss sitting around, this is the only game in which a instakill boss is considered "game design".
The problem with eso is they never build off what they have, they just shhh out another new ride, instead of building off what they got,they move on hell battlegrounds along could get playlists like halo and a forge and people would still play it a decade later. Kinda werid not doing it right since it is like there largest brand/customerbase.
Hey atleast begald we're not Fallout 76....yetEdited by ThanatosXR on May 2, 2019 6:26AM4 -
thorwyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭When people are leaving the group / porting out of a dungeon after porting in, they obviously used the random dungeon finder. Now who does use the random dungeon finder? Those people who are looking for the double XP bonus, probably cycling through all their twinks in order to maximise the XP.
Rewards (as in drops) are irrelevant, especially since 90% of all dungeon drops and sets are salvage loot. So no, extra reward would not solve anything as long as we're dealing with XPers, unless we're offering them another XP boost on top. But even then the time/XP efficiency of FG1 compared to BRF would be quiestionable.
The only way to tackle this problem is blocking the ability to port into another dungeon and still get the bonus.Edited by thorwyn on May 2, 2019 6:28AMAnd if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And if there is no room upon the hill
And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon0 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Using the group finder to do farming is a poor strategy.
Doubly so when you’re looking to farm DLC dungeons.
If you’re surprised that people who are simply queueing to get their daily random dungeon bonus don’t want to do longer more technically difficult DLC content, then clearly you are even more naive than they are (and you haven’t noticed the 8 million threads demanding that ESO+ subscribers have the option NOT to do this content as a random dungeon). Expecting them to do your heavy lifting doubly so. They just want an easy dungeon and the XP rewards. In their eyes you’re the impediment and your demand that someone helps walk you through the DLC dungeon so you can get gear is an outrage.
Best way to farm is to put a group together yourself with the specific aim of farming that dungeon. It will be faster, more effective and way more rewarding (for everyone). You’re also much more likely to be given gear you want in trades. I found it very successful farming Arx, CoH, FRH and CoA.
Best of luck with the farming. Have fun0 -
AbysmalGhul✭✭✭✭✭
✭VinxTerranova wrote: »I'm finding that no one wants to queue for the longer dungeons, White-Gold-Tower, Bloodroot Forge, Cradle of Shadows, simply because they take too long and the rewards are the same. How about they give a better incentive for people so they can use Dungeon finder and get better rewards. Why would the rewards be the same for a quick Wayrest Sewers, as the tedious Imperial City Prison? I noticed that as a healer getting good gear was difficult. I needed to grind Veteran White Gold Tower, and Bloodroot Forge. Things that once people load into the dungeon, they immediately leave. It made the grind a TERRIBLE experience. I think if ZOS can reward people better for the longer more difficult dungeons, even VET mode, it might make finding dungeons more easier. Half the people still enjoy shouting in Grahtwood, or Craglorn. But this seems ineffective.
Does anyone else have any ideas on how to fix the dungeon finder, and/or get people to queue for the longer dungeons? I know World of Warcraft has a reward system that gives people gold and a bag for queuing as a certain role. I think ZoS should do the same.
I have to disagree. Most people don't leave because the actual dungeon is "technically" long, they don't want to take that chance that the dungeon is going to take forever because of people not being "technically" savy to the dungeon. Those "harder" dungeons already have the better rewards with skins, personalities, and monster/gear sets.2 -
kongkim✭✭✭✭✭I will crawl to the cross here.. and say i always leave Bloodroot Forge and Cradle of Shadows.
Not that they are too long. But there are simply to many mechanics to be aware of for a casual run.
And too big of a chance that its only "Pro wannerbe" players you meet there so they start whining. And that just don't make it fun.3 -
Metafae✭✭✭✭✭Honestly, probably just have a "Hold my hand" Mode, if your team fails on the same boss 5 times in a row, the game should give your team a temporary buff for like 10 minutes with like major damage mitigation and damage boost.
It'll really make the game more friendly towards the people that don't want to make an optimal build or just want to play the dungeons casually.4 -
SoLooney✭✭✭✭✭Your average pug barely completes regular base dungeons on normal and vet. Put them in dlc dungeons and the frustration goes through the roof. I never do dlc unless it's with my friends and even then, it's not worth the 2 keys for hard mode and the motifs quickly deflate to under 20k so its meh money for the time you put into it
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FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DLC dungeons are hard and mechanic heavy. They are a challenge. That’s the whole point of them. That’s why experienced players like them.
And it’s why players who haven’t spent time in each of them often don’t want to do them.
It would be great if there was the option to not do them on random normal/vet (other than cancelling ESO+) and if there was the option to do a DLC random for a greater reward. That might ensure that only players who wanted to do DLC content would be in your PUG. Although that would be no guarantee you’d be any more successful, at least people wouldn’t leave immediately after the splash screen.0 -
MuddledMuppet✭✭✭✭LiraTaurwen wrote: »There is no problem with dungeons, just people these days are lazy and want everything easy. Devs could add better rewards etc but then more casuals would cry here that dungeons are too difficult.
Says the person crying that things were better in the olden days. So if people 'these' days are lazy, which 'days' were they not? Can I hazard a guess and say it's 'your days'?
It's a fair bet I'm as old as you, and I've never seen any period where lazy people didn't exist, nor contemptuous self-righteous jerks with a superiority complex.7 -
thorwyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Honestly, probably just have a "Hold my hand" Mode, if your team fails on the same boss 5 times in a row, the game should give your team a temporary buff for like 10 minutes with like major damage mitigation and damage boost.
It'll really make the game more friendly towards the people that don't want to make an optimal build or just want to play the dungeons casually.
Making the game casual friendly is a good thing, but this is taking it a bit too far in my opinion. If a group is unable to complete content, then it simply isn't ready for it. Giving them an artificial boost would just eliminate the experience of accomplishment, because they know it was the game that was carrying them to success.And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And if there is no room upon the hill
And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon1 -
LiraTaurwen✭✭✭✭✭MuddledMuppet wrote: »LiraTaurwen wrote: »There is no problem with dungeons, just people these days are lazy and want everything easy. Devs could add better rewards etc but then more casuals would cry here that dungeons are too difficult.
Says the person crying that things were better in the olden days. So if people 'these' days are lazy, which 'days' were they not? Can I hazard a guess and say it's 'your days'?
It's a fair bet I'm as old as you, and I've never seen any period where lazy people didn't exist, nor contemptuous self-righteous jerks with a superiority complex.
eheh yea true there were lazy people back then, but devs didn't seem to make games focused on the lazies lol but that has changed and the more you do what they want the crappier your game becomes. Also the lazies are never happy, give them an hand and they will ask for your arm next
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Metafae✭✭✭✭✭Honestly, probably just have a "Hold my hand" Mode, if your team fails on the same boss 5 times in a row, the game should give your team a temporary buff for like 10 minutes with like major damage mitigation and damage boost.
It'll really make the game more friendly towards the people that don't want to make an optimal build or just want to play the dungeons casually.
Making the game casual friendly is a good thing, but this is taking it a bit too far in my opinion. If a group is unable to complete content, then it simply isn't ready for it. Giving them an artificial boost would just eliminate the experience of accomplishment, because they know it was the game that was carrying them to success.
You can have it nerf the rewards if the bonus gets applied.0
