buff or nerf..i think what would be really nice is if they expanded the vampire skill line similar to the WWolf to give it a full skill line...

Rygonix wrote: »

With the latest buffs to Race against Time being a vampire is nothing more than a detriment, most especially in pvp. The 10% regen is peanuts, and you need to be nearly dead to get the full bonus of Undeath. With the latest buffs to magdk it will be a living nightmare as a vamp in Cyrodiil.

Either one of two things need to happen: race against time reverted to how it is on live, or vamps need a buff in some (or many) department(s). The cards are simply stacked to highly against them for it to be practical as it currently stands.

even with the new race agaist time, i bet many people gonna stay with mist form due to damage reduction which can be stacked by maj-min protection.

All I want for vampires is a could offensive ability's.

My Nord DKTank is a vampire, I only occasionally slot the bats ultimate that heals either in battlegrounds or normal dungeons if the DPS is low level.

I stopped bothering with the Drain, in favor of more immediate healing ability's like Green Dragon blood or echoing vigor. Mostly to make up for the non existent health regen.

The mist is a novelty, I leveled it but, I feel it just wastes time/resources in battlegrounds and would rather slot something else in dungeons.

The passive's are the main reason I keep him a vampire and a partial bit of role play like the idea of an immortal character.

The fire weakness has never been a big deal to me, "oh a red circle with fire in it" "guess I should stand in it, instead of moving slightly outside the circle" The elemental defender champion point greatly reduces the penalty.

It doesn't really alter my play style in PVE, even if I were not a vampire I am not going to sit in fire until I die.

PVP on the other hand, especially in battlegrounds is when the weakness is most noticeable but people are more often specking poison builds to counter the high number of werewolf's, you still get the occasional fire build, that can give you a hard time.

More often that not the main problem is when you find yourself up against another vampire, always cracks me up when you get a group of players using the bat ultimate against each other achieving nothing but an endless fight until someone else turns up.

twilightwarrick wrote: »

I thought it would be a good boost to my skills after being one in Skyrim, how ever I finding it to be a bit of a pain in the neck ha ha,

Say no more.

ZOS, do what they say.

Vampire has its negatives, but I run it on my mDK because I believe that the positives out weight the negatives. This is from a pvp perspective.

Mist form is an excellent ability, especially considering the upcoming wings change. It also pairs well with an mDKs ability to heal, if played well. Cauterize procs every five seconds. So one can cast cauterize, get the heal, cast mist form, and then get another heal on exit of mist. The same can be done with burning embers.

Bat swarm is very useful while outnumbered, and at stage four. The damage isn't very high, but the heal against multiple targets is fantastic. The cost reduction you get as you progress in stages applies to the ult as well, while retaining battle roar resource return based on the base cost of the ult. So you get 200 ult worth of resources for 158 ult.

The regen passive is useful but not amazing.

Undeath is an amazing, borderline op, passive and people don't seem to realize how effective it is. Up to 33% damage reduction when under 50% hp. That comes out to 0.66% damage reduction per 1% missing hp below 50% hp. At 20% hp, that comes to 20% damage reduction. At 35% hp, you have already have 10% damage reduction.

The only time your increased damage taken would not be outweighed by the overall damage mitigation of undeath is against a mDK. The 20% increased burst from dawn breaker is hefty, but you receive the damage mitigation from that and ALL other sources of damage. It adds up. Since a mDK is all fire damage, you will take more damage over time from them as a vamp no matter what.

Haojin wrote: »

even with the new race agaist time, i bet many people gonna stay with mist form due to damage reduction which can be stacked by maj-min protection.

Yes, the form that absorbs all healing received, stunts your magicka regen and where are you gonna get Major Protection post-patch? I suppose you could animation-cancel remembrance into mistform in a pinch but that's far from reliable. Also remember that %-based damage reductions are multiplicative, not additive. So having major protection while in mistform is practically a huge waste. You're better off saving it for when mistform just isn't the right skill to use.

BlackMadara wrote: »

Vampire has its negatives, but I run it on my mDK because I believe that the positives out weight the negatives. This is from a pvp perspective.

Mist form is an excellent ability, especially considering the upcoming wings change. It also pairs well with an mDKs ability to heal, if played well. Cauterize procs every five seconds. So one can cast cauterize, get the heal, cast mist form, and then get another heal on exit of mist. The same can be done with burning embers.

Bat swarm is very useful while outnumbered, and at stage four. The damage isn't very high, but the heal against multiple targets is fantastic. The cost reduction you get as you progress in stages applies to the ult as well, while retaining battle roar resource return based on the base cost of the ult. So you get 200 ult worth of resources for 158 ult.

The regen passive is useful but not amazing.

Undeath is an amazing, borderline op, passive and people don't seem to realize how effective it is. Up to 33% damage reduction when under 50% hp. That comes out to 0.66% damage reduction per 1% missing hp below 50% hp. At 20% hp, that comes to 20% damage reduction. At 35% hp, you have already have 10% damage reduction.

The only time your increased damage taken would not be outweighed by the overall damage mitigation of undeath is against a mDK. The 20% increased burst from dawn breaker is hefty, but you receive the damage mitigation from that and ALL other sources of damage. It adds up. Since a mDK is all fire damage, you will take more damage over time from them as a vamp no matter what.

Mist Form is pretty good for PvP. Their drain ability isn't half bad for PvP either.

But I don't share your enthusiasm for their passives. Assuming your calculations are correct: let's say at 20% health you are taking 20% less damage in PvP. At stage 4 you are taking 25% more fire damage all the time. So it doesn't even break you even when you are near death. That doesn't exactly impress me that much. And everyone and their mother uses fire damage.

So I'll never understand why this board thinks so highly of the Vampire Passives or why they believe they are so OP. It literally confuses the ____ out of me. I can maybe understand a Nightlblade who relies on stealth to sneak around and "gank" his or her enemies - why they would like Dark stalker. But that's really all I can come up with.

As I said earlier - if I could keep lock my Vampire into stage 1 so I could use their abilities freely in PvP without suffering the increases in fire damage I would do so in a heartbeat. Their passives hurt more than they help.

Jeremy wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

Vampire has its negatives, but I run it on my mDK because I believe that the positives out weight the negatives. This is from a pvp perspective.

Mist form is an excellent ability, especially considering the upcoming wings change. It also pairs well with an mDKs ability to heal, if played well. Cauterize procs every five seconds. So one can cast cauterize, get the heal, cast mist form, and then get another heal on exit of mist. The same can be done with burning embers.

Bat swarm is very useful while outnumbered, and at stage four. The damage isn't very high, but the heal against multiple targets is fantastic. The cost reduction you get as you progress in stages applies to the ult as well, while retaining battle roar resource return based on the base cost of the ult. So you get 200 ult worth of resources for 158 ult.

The regen passive is useful but not amazing.

Undeath is an amazing, borderline op, passive and people don't seem to realize how effective it is. Up to 33% damage reduction when under 50% hp. That comes out to 0.66% damage reduction per 1% missing hp below 50% hp. At 20% hp, that comes to 20% damage reduction. At 35% hp, you have already have 10% damage reduction.

The only time your increased damage taken would not be outweighed by the overall damage mitigation of undeath is against a mDK. The 20% increased burst from dawn breaker is hefty, but you receive the damage mitigation from that and ALL other sources of damage. It adds up. Since a mDK is all fire damage, you will take more damage over time from them as a vamp no matter what.

Mist Form is pretty good for PvP. Their drain ability isn't half bad for PvP either.

But I don't share your enthusiasm for their passives. Assuming your calculations are correct: let's say at 20% health you are taking 20% less damage in PvP. At stage 4 you are taking 25% more fire damage all the time. So it doesn't even break you even when you are near death. That doesn't exactly impress me that much. And everyone and their mother uses fire damage.

So I'll never understand why this board thinks so highly of the Vampire Passives or why they believe they are so OP. It literally confuses the ____ out of me. I can maybe understand a Nightlblade who relies on stealth to sneak around and "gank" his or her enemies - why they would like Dark stalker. But that's really all I can come up with.

As I said earlier - if I could keep lock my Vampire into stage 1 so I could use their abilities freely in PvP without suffering the increases in fire damage I would do so in a heartbeat. Their passives hurt more than they help.

I stated that the damage reduction will never be effective when fighting a mDK, which is the only spec that has enough fire damage for it to matter.

Basically, 95% of the time, you will be tankier. For me, that 95% of combat is worth it.

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

i think the fact the only real viability vamps have is their passive damage reductions on a tank, that says a lot

Exactly when did they remove mistform?

if you honestly think mistform is good for anything other than pvp, you are dreaming.

No where in your post did you specify pvp only. The game has 2 sides.

i shouldn't have to because the almighty gods of ZoS have decreed that all balance changes be made in favor of putting everyone on equal footing in PvP while neglecting all PvE aspects.

Vampires are absolutely worthless for anything besides their passives which is complete lunacy. the fact that you can't find a viable build that implements any of their active skills says a lot about how worthless the skill line is overall.

no one is going to slot mistform, especially in endgame PvE content, that would be a wasted slot better suited to something actually useful, or did you forget that ZoS likes to put in one shot mechanics

Chims wrote: »

They need to wipe the passives out and start over. If the passives are OP and what draws people to use vampire then they need to nerf the F out of them so they can add more skills. I would much rather have usable skills which would mix builds up.

If people are afraid of making it a no brainer to be a vamp then the way to counter that is making it vastly affect your build. I think the best way to do that is force skill slots.

And this talk about stamina morphs and skills needs to leave too. If you want to do that then make all werewolf skills have a magicka morph so I can be a magicka werewolf.

That’s just stupid. Vamp is as good as it’s gonna get. People forget the unkillable bats spamming emps of days gone by. The current passives ARE great but not op and are completely balanced in PvP by vamps being squishy against any competent MagDk and any competent player dropping dawnbreakers. Geeze.

I remember batspam and I don't think anyone wants that to return. I think the vast majority want skill line reworks. When this game came out I just thought well hey, maybe they didn't finish it in time but it sure was cool they at least released some of the skills. That was like 4-5 years ago. No one here is asking to be OP we are asking to have actual skills and be viable. People say the passives are too strong well then nerf them so they are not. Hell make it that none of them work except the increased fire damage (not really a passive) unless you have all three skills on your bar I don't care. we want real abilities not 2 abilities and an ult.

Chims wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

i think the fact the only real viability vamps have is their passive damage reductions on a tank, that says a lot

Exactly when did they remove mistform?

if you honestly think mistform is good for anything other than pvp, you are dreaming.

No where in your post did you specify pvp only. The game has 2 sides.

i shouldn't have to because the almighty gods of ZoS have decreed that all balance changes be made in favor of putting everyone on equal footing in PvP while neglecting all PvE aspects.

Vampires are absolutely worthless for anything besides their passives which is complete lunacy. the fact that you can't find a viable build that implements any of their active skills says a lot about how worthless the skill line is overall.

no one is going to slot mistform, especially in endgame PvE content, that would be a wasted slot better suited to something actually useful, or did you forget that ZoS likes to put in one shot mechanics

Chims wrote: »

They need to wipe the passives out and start over. If the passives are OP and what draws people to use vampire then they need to nerf the F out of them so they can add more skills. I would much rather have usable skills which would mix builds up.

If people are afraid of making it a no brainer to be a vamp then the way to counter that is making it vastly affect your build. I think the best way to do that is force skill slots.

And this talk about stamina morphs and skills needs to leave too. If you want to do that then make all werewolf skills have a magicka morph so I can be a magicka werewolf.

That’s just stupid. Vamp is as good as it’s gonna get. People forget the unkillable bats spamming emps of days gone by. The current passives ARE great but not op and are completely balanced in PvP by vamps being squishy against any competent MagDk and any competent player dropping dawnbreakers. Geeze.

I remember batspam and I don't think anyone wants that to return. I think the vast majority want skill line reworks. When this game came out I just thought well hey, maybe they didn't finish it in time but it sure was cool they at least released some of the skills. That was like 4-5 years ago. No one here is asking to be OP we are asking to have actual skills and be viable. People say the passives are too strong well then nerf them so they are not. Hell make it that none of them work except the increased fire damage (not really a passive) unless you have all three skills on your bar I don't care. we want real abilities not 2 abilities and an ult.

I've come to the conclusion Vampires are purposely designed to be merely a PvP option and that they aren't intended to be good for PvE. That's really the only thing that makes sense to me.

This point of view would also explain the feeding process. Because there would be little point to feeding your vampire iif all it did was weaken them. So I believe the intended idea was for players to feed during PvE activities and then cut loose in PvP, where the usefulness of their abilities can somewhat offset the negatives.

I'm a vampire because of the recovery, helps a lot with sustain. I just cleared igneous cistern in vma at stage 4 vamp, it hurts but it isn't a deal breaker.