Can we please have the option to remove DLC dungeons from random Queue?

Gatviper · April 2019

For DLC dungeons, it could possibly be made much more doable for a random group, if those dungeons had not 4 spots for a group, but instead 6. Sure random group would still be chaotic, but let's face it DLC dungeons have more challenging mechanics, and it would go smoother and quicker with 4 DDs in the group instead of 2, or 2 Healers where chance is at least one of those know how to heal, if the other doesn't or just does dps

Jeremy · April 2019

Nyladreas wrote: »

I'm just getting really tired of getting hard DLC dungeons with new people that don't know how to follow mechanics let alone even pick their skills. This is not me hating on newbies, i love to help them and teach them new things, however when i'm on a tight time schedule and just wanting to get my daily XP bonus it's really frustrating having to spend up to 2 if not sometimes 3 hours in a single dungeon trying and failing over and over and over again.

So, can we please implement an option to EXCLUDE DLC DUNGEONS FROM RANDOM QUEUE?

Thanks.

I would support separating the two as well. But I've read they intend on nerfing DLC dungeons soon - in which case this may become unnecessary.

N00BxV1 · April 2019

If only I could just unsub and make the dlc dungeons go away... Oh wait, I can’t because I supported the game by purchasing the dlc and now I’m stuck with it...

There should be an option to opt-out of any purchased content. It really isn’t fair that most of my random dungeons are dlc when others who haven’t purchased anything get to do easier random dungeons but get the same reward. Because of this I’ve pretty much quit doing randoms. What a way to treat paying customers...

wishlist14 · April 2019

DLC dungeons are more fun due to the more elaborate mechanics...I say elaborate compared to all other non dlc normal dungeons. I understand your frustrstion with wanting to get your pledges done for the day and not waste your time.

The reality is that there are about 4 levels of players and eso can't cater to them unfortunately.

1 The leetist that can do all eso content on vet hm while eating a burger and tweeting.😜

2. The try hard that aspires to be leetist and works their butt off and gets pretty good at the game and can do the tougher content quite efficiently and fast. The ' Let's do a quick vet pledge dlc' kinda player.

3. The good player that can do dlc normals but struggle doing a vet dlc but still get through it with the right group. This player does care about builds and improving but is content to improve at a slower pace. These people may or may not frustrate the speedier dungeon dweller.

4.The player that just hasn't done that dlc yet. Watched the fight mechanics on a vid, made notes and wants to try it out. They are good players and are geared, know their rotation etc but may not be as fast at completing dlc due to new mechanics they are trying very hard to learn.

5. The player that plays a magicka class but wears stamina gear and is trying out their own build because they can and wants to jump into any content regardless of their ability or experience. They may or may not eat food before doing a dungeon much to the horror of the healer. These players will definately struggle in a dlc dungeon and slow the group down.I'm sure these players get kicked often.

My point is that the level of competance to complete dlc dungeons at a steady and fairly fast pace is as diverse as the players themselves. Everytime you pug , you are taking a chance . Im sure I haven't covered ever type of player 😜afcourse.

VaranisArano · April 2019

Painstormx wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

How is that poor balancing? It's different mobs and you will have to face them at different levels and with different equipment. Lvl 10 folks are struggling with the mobs in FG1 just like CP 300 people are stuggling with mobs in bloodroot forge. You can of course tone it all down to more or less one level, but that would completely ignore the character progression.

It's a problem because the random dungeon finder doesn't really differentiate between the dungeons with regards to your gear level, so a level 30 might be thrown into a dungeon balanced for CP 200 people.
I don't might dungeons being of different difficulty if they were put into different brackets, like at below 50 you can do dungeon A/B/C, at CP 200 you can do A/B/C/D/E etc.

The dungeons do differentiate for Randoms and Groupfinder. Normal dungeons unlock progressively below level 45.

Most Vet dungeons unlock at level 50, all of the base game ones by CP 160, and DLC Vets at CP 300.

Now, you can argue that they ought to unlock differently or at higher CP, but it's false to claim that ZOS doesn't differentiate between levels or sort dungeons into different brackets.

In other words, a Level 30 could manually travel into a higher difficulty normal dungeon if they wanted to, but as designed by ZOS, they can only use the Groupfinder to get into the dungeons that have unlocked for level 30 and below.

The days of level 10s having Spindleclutch. & FG 1 in the same bracket as ICP and FG 2 are long gone.

SRTtoZ · April 2019

It's ridiculous. As a healer who is CP ~300 there are so many 1 shot mechanics even while buffed on NORMAL difficulty. I get that for Vet dungeons but cmon. And the worst is when they pair you with a bunch of underleveled/undergeared people. I have no issues with the players, I think these dungeons are balanced so poorly. Don't get me wrong, I think the vanilla dungeons are too easy but there needs to be a middle ground between too easy and being 1 shot and not completing the dungeon due to people not knowing the mechanics. It's poorly designed if after a couple deaths you still can't figure out the right mechanics. People just want to log in and have some fun in a dungeon. If they want more of a challenge that's why they have Veteran dungeons. Rant over.

karekiz · April 2019

DPS check to que into

Vet 1's
Vet 2's
Vet DLC

Each with progressively better rewards when qued into higher difficulty.

@SRTtoZ A lot of one shots are player error. Not blocking Heavy attacks, or even dodging them. Just eating them to the face. The game should penalize people for standing in red or staring at a mob heavy attacking you. If they didn't they should probably remove the dodge button and just make it like other MMO's where you just Stand outside of X and dance. I would MUCH rather have a tank who knows how to block heavy attacks enter veteran content than one who constantly hits light attack randomly at trash packs with a taunt sometimes placed inbetween.

AlnilamE · April 2019

OP: I'm personally opposed to the option, but if they must make it, the reward has to be lower than the normal "Random Dungeon" reward. You want quick and easy, you get less of a reward.

Reverb wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

I hate pugging dlc dungeons

Everyone does. And the more of them they add, the more disincentive there is to use the groupfinder.

I don't.

And one of my guildies loves showing people through Scalecaller, Mazzatun and CoS, and he's now playing around with Frostvault.

AlnilamE · April 2019

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

I'm just getting really tired of getting hard DLC dungeons with new people that don't know how to follow mechanics let alone even pick their skills. This is not me hating on newbies, i love to help them and teach them new things, however when i'm on a tight time schedule and just wanting to get my daily XP bonus it's really frustrating having to spend up to 2 if not sometimes 3 hours in a single dungeon trying and failing over and over and over again.

So, can we please implement an option to EXCLUDE DLC DUNGEONS FROM RANDOM QUEUE?

Thanks.

100% yes on an option to join a queue with or without DLC dungeons, those of us on a TIME LIMIT cant play any random because a random can be 5 minutes, or 6 Hours depending on the PUG

What normal dungeon has taken you 6 hours to complete?

Facefister · April 2019

Gatviper wrote: »

For DLC dungeons, it could possibly be made much more doable for a random group, if those dungeons had not 4 spots for a group, but instead 6. Sure random group would still be chaotic, but let's face it DLC dungeons have more challenging mechanics, and it would go smoother and quicker with 4 DDs in the group instead of 2, or 2 Healers where chance is at least one of those know how to heal, if the other doesn't or just does dps

Said mechanics became so forgiving. Laser boss as an example, you have to stay atleast 3 seconds on the laser with 16k life, 3 full seconds before it kills you... and people still manage to get killed.

AlnilamE · April 2019

SRTtoZ wrote: »

It's ridiculous. As a healer who is CP ~300 there are so many 1 shot mechanics even while buffed on NORMAL difficulty. I get that for Vet dungeons but cmon. And the worst is when they pair you with a bunch of underleveled/undergeared people. I have no issues with the players, I think these dungeons are balanced so poorly. Don't get me wrong, I think the vanilla dungeons are too easy but there needs to be a middle ground between too easy and being 1 shot and not completing the dungeon due to people not knowing the mechanics. It's poorly designed if after a couple deaths you still can't figure out the right mechanics. People just want to log in and have some fun in a dungeon. If they want more of a challenge that's why they have Veteran dungeons. Rant over.

Normal only one-shots people who don't use food.

ZarkingFrued · April 2019

They need to add this option for sure.

idk · April 2019

It is a great idea and I have suggested the solution to random rewards that would be perfect, and probably what Zos would do if they made this change.

There would be three tiers of daily random rewards, Legendary, Epic and Common. Basically this would add Legendary rewards.

Legendary - Random Dungeon where DLCs are part of the selection. Requires access to X number of DLC dungeons. This is a new top tier reward for Randoms.
Epic - Random Dungeons excluding DLCs or player does not have access to enough DLCs for Legendary or for second run that includes DLC dungeons. This is same as the best rewards currently available for randoms.
Common - Currently the lesser reward granted for second of a random and would be the reward for second run that excludes non-DLCs.

This rewards risk and does not take anything way from those who do not want to deal with DLC dungeons. So it is a win/win solution.

Xoelarasizerer · April 2019

+1

IMO, Normal DLC Dungeons are on a higher difficulty overall than Normal Dungeons Version 2.

Gaymne Bandu, the Scourge Harvester and Engine Guardian may have some tough gimmicks for new players to probably be educated on their first visit, but those gals and spider-bot are rare cases compared to the more common punishment from bosses at the White Gold Tower, Mazzatun, Falkreath, Fang Lair and so on for the unprepared.

Imza · April 2019

AlnilamE wrote: »

Normal only one-shots people who don't use food.

No that's not true - you are forgetting there are people who play this game that have high ping and you're also forgetting the lag from the servers.

I just tested my dps with 240 ping and with 350 ping..... There was a 10k difference and please don't get me started on reaction time with a high ping.

thorwyn · April 2019

It's a problem because the random dungeon finder doesn't really differentiate between the dungeons with regards to your gear level, so a level 30 might be thrown into a dungeon balanced for CP 200 people.

That's not correct. The level check still applies in random group finder. You will never find a lvl 30 in bloodroot unless the group manually ports there.

karekiz · April 2019

Imza wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Normal only one-shots people who don't use food.

No that's not true - you are forgetting there are people who play this game that have high ping and you're also forgetting the lag from the servers.

I just tested my dps with 240 ping and with 350 ping..... There was a 10k difference and please don't get me started on reaction time with a high ping.

The issue with that logic is balancing a dungeon encounter around 300+ ping players is a very very very bad idea. This game is designed around a psuedo action style gameplay. Sucks the ping is bad, but that shouldn't effect balance.

ThanatosXR · April 2019

Dlc nor vet are harder they just just cheap one shot kills instead of any interesting tactics

FierceSam · April 2019

The fundamental issue is that having access to the DLC content (via ESO+ or otherwise) is no indication of capability (or desire) to actually do it. The random dungeon feature is bad because it lumbers players who want to do the content with players who don’t or aren’t equipped to do it. And that’s a lose/lose situation.

Clearly it’s a good thing that there are dungeons of different levels, complexity and time demands, but randomly putting players into dungeons they can’t deal with is no kind of fun for anyone.

The best solution is one where players get to choose the level of challenge they want and are rewarded accordingly.

Imagine if you queued for a random dungeon and FG1 gave you, say, 10,000 XP, while DLC like Scalecaller gave you 200,000 XP. And you got to choose which one you did. How many ‘just doing it for the XP’ players would go for FG1? How large would the queue be for Scalecaller? That would really be interesting to see.

FierceSam · April 2019

thorwyn wrote: »

It's a problem because the random dungeon finder doesn't really differentiate between the dungeons with regards to your gear level, so a level 30 might be thrown into a dungeon balanced for CP 200 people.

That's not correct. The level check still applies in random group finder. You will never find a lvl 30 in bloodroot unless the group manually ports there.

True. You cannot access DLC dungeons until L45 and you can’t do any vet dungeons until L50. So once you are L45 and ESO +, you are fair game for random DLC dungeon content.

DLC dungeons are good fun, but they’re also meant to be challenging. The issue with DLC dungeons in the random queue is that they demand a level of experience and time greater than non-DLC dungeons and there is no way to judge whether a player/character is ready to do this.

DPS checks don’t work for tanks and healers. They don’t even work for dd as their dps will be enhanced by good tanks and healers

CP level is absolutely no indication of DLC dungeon (or any dungeon) proficiency. I did my first dungeon at CP 450 (and yes, it was very messy)

So as OP says, I’d like some kind of option to avoid DLC dungeons when I chose to.

lokulin · April 2019

It would be nice to have three or four tiers of dungeons. Normal non dlc, normal dlc, vet non DLC, vet DLC but given my limited experience with other MMOs I don't think it would actually improve much. Most people would still run the easy ones for the easy rewards and the hard queues would still mostly be ghost towns with no increased chance of success.

thorwyn · April 2019

It would be nice to have three or four tiers of dungeons. Normal non dlc, normal dlc, vet non DLC, vet DLC but given my limited experience with other MMOs I don't think it would actually improve much. Most people would still run the easy ones for the easy rewards and the hard queues would still mostly be ghost towns with no increased chance of success.

Reward is never a factor when queueing for a random dungeon. The deciding factor is always the XP bonus or just boredom or they want to push their luck and get the xp bonus AND the pledge at once. People who are in need of certain items will queue for the specific dungeons. But yes, I agree, a filter to the random queue would probably leave the DLC-part empty forever.

MikaHR · April 2019

thorwyn wrote: »

But yes, I agree, a filter to the random queue would probably leave the DLC-part empty forever.

And that is a clear evidence that they are just BAD and no one wants to play them. It is very simple.

And no, not even forcing people into these dungeons made it any better, there comes a time when devs have to throw the towel in and admit their failure.

Gatviper · April 2019

lokulin wrote: »

It would be nice to have three or four tiers of dungeons. Normal non dlc, normal dlc, vet non DLC, vet DLC but given my limited experience with other MMOs I don't think it would actually improve much. Most people would still run the easy ones for the easy rewards and the hard queues would still mostly be ghost towns with no increased chance of success.

Many "classic" raid-oriented MMORPGs have / had about 3-4 tiers of group content - easy heroic (starter heroic gear), hard heroic (strong heroic gear), and raid - easy raid tier (bit better than strong heroic gear), hard raid tier (best gear there is) usually, so it's no different here in ESO, aside of the fact that gear plays almost no difference.
What's different is that with the random group dungeon queue, you're thrown into both easy and hard tiers of "heroic" (group here) dungeons without being able to choose which tier you prefer. And not everybody is able / willing to do the hard heroic stuff.

thorwyn · April 2019

And that is a clear evidence that they are just BAD and no one wants to play them. It is very simple.

No it's clear evidence that the majority of people is lazy and doesn't even want a challenge. Might as well drop the entire random dungeon finder and just hand out the XP reward after the login process.

zaria · April 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

Given that:
A. The daily random is one way ZOS backfills partial groups or groups that lose a member (which is very likely in DLC dungeons)

B. ZOS just adjusted the difficulty of several DLC fights that were roadblocks to progress

C. Less people queuing for DLC dunfeons means a longer wait for those who want to do it, if potentially a better chance to get people who actually want to do them

D. Its the daily Random dungeon, not the daily Guaranteed Quick and Easy dungeon, despite what the FG1 folks want you to think

I don't expect ZOS to change it.

Mostly for reason A, while reason B is their attempted solution.

This, one option is to reduce the xp gain if you don't include the dlc.
And no I rarely pug vet dlc, only time is then in good group and we agree on go for the dlc pledge.

sudaki_eso · April 2019

Not sure if someone already mentioned it but at least on the ps4 you can disable the dlc dungeons in your collections if you got them through eso+. not the best solution but it works...

FierceSam · April 2019

MikaHR wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

But yes, I agree, a filter to the random queue would probably leave the DLC-part empty forever.

And that is a clear evidence that they are just BAD and no one wants to play them. It is very simple.

And no, not even forcing people into these dungeons made it any better, there comes a time when devs have to throw the towel in and admit their failure.

I disagree that the DLC dungeons are bad. They are designed to be significantly more challenging than the non-DLC ones and cater for a specific PvE need for difficult content. And they totally fulfill that remit. They are great fun when my group and I want that kind of content. But only when we want it.

I agree that there is a limited audience for this content. And the issue is that not everyone who wants to do that content can find 3 others with the right roles when they want to play a DLC dungeon. The activity finder then pulls in some random normals/vets to fill those spots. And given these people are chosen simply for subscribing to ESO+ rather than anything else, you get a very mixed bag of players.

Clearly ‘forcing’ players into content they don’t want to do is wrong/bad/stupid/necessary in this case.

It’s also insane that the only way you can ensure that you don’t do any DLC dungeons you haven’t purchased is to cancel your ESO+ subscription.

ZOS have recognised the issue and their solution has been to try to eliminate what they see as the roadblocks to completing/wanting to start these dungeons and have, for example, massively simplified the Galchobhar fight in BRF, which hasn’t pleased some of the people who like DLC content.

They have also tried to encourage repeat visits from experienced players via motif drops. So I still see lfg Scalecaller farm requests in my guild (just as I see lf tank/heals for final boss vet DLC dungeon ones for those groups that have fallen apart)..

TL:DR DLC dungeons aren’t bad. But I agree with the OP, I would like the option to choose whether I did DLC content in my random dungeons.

HappyLittleTree · April 2019

If you don't want to do random dlc dungeon just teleport to another dungeon with your team(via map not via finder)

You still get random reward.

NoFlash · April 2019

I only do daily random dlc dungeons if there is another high cp room with me. Otherwise I back out and just pvp or log off. Dlc dungeons suck for pick up group's.