Can we please have the option to remove DLC dungeons from random Queue?

Nyladreas · April 2019

I'm just getting really tired of getting hard DLC dungeons with new people that don't know how to follow mechanics let alone even pick their skills. This is not me hating on newbies, i love to help them and teach them new things, however when i'm on a tight time schedule and just wanting to get my daily XP bonus it's really frustrating having to spend up to 2 if not sometimes 3 hours in a single dungeon trying and failing over and over and over again.

So, can we please implement an option to EXCLUDE DLC DUNGEONS FROM RANDOM QUEUE?

Thanks.

VaranisArano · April 2019

Given that:
A. The daily random is one way ZOS backfills partial groups or groups that lose a member (which is very likely in DLC dungeons)

B. ZOS just adjusted the difficulty of several DLC fights that were roadblocks to progress

C. Less people queuing for DLC dunfeons means a longer wait for those who want to do it, if potentially a better chance to get people who actually want to do them

D. Its the daily Random dungeon, not the daily Guaranteed Quick and Easy dungeon, despite what the FG1 folks want you to think

I don't expect ZOS to change it.

Mostly for reason A, while reason B is their attempted solution.

Nyladreas · April 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

Given that:
A. The daily random is one way ZOS backfills partial groups or groups that lose a member (which is very likely in DLC dungeons)

B. ZOS just adjusted the difficulty of several DLC fights that were roadblocks to progress

C. Less people queuing for DLC dunfeons means a longer wait for those who want to do it, if potentially a better chance to get people who actually want to do them

D. Its the daily Random dungeon, not the daily Guaranteed Quick and Easy dungeon, despite what the FG1 folks want you to think

I don't expect ZOS to change it.

Mostly for reason A, while reason B is their attempted solution.

I would still like to see that option implemented though.

I don't mind playing DLC dungeons, but NOT WHEN i have like 1 hour of time on that given day. I can just stop playing the game at that point.

Aliyavana · April 2019

I hate pugging dlc dungeons

Reverb · April 2019

Aliyavana wrote: »

I hate pugging dlc dungeons

Everyone does. And the more of them they add, the more disincentive there is to use the groupfinder.

Reverb · April 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

Given that:
A. The daily random is one way ZOS backfills partial groups or groups that lose a member (which is very likely in DLC dungeons)

B. ZOS just adjusted the difficulty of several DLC fights that were roadblocks to progress

C. Less people queuing for DLC dunfeons means a longer wait for those who want to do it, if potentially a better chance to get people who actually want to do them

D. Its the daily Random dungeon, not the daily Guaranteed Quick and Easy dungeon, despite what the FG1 folks want you to think

I don't expect ZOS to change it.

Mostly for reason A, while reason B is their attempted solution.

I understand that reasoning, but it’s failing for the following reasons.

A. An in-progress vet dlc run is very unlikely to be completed if it needs back filled from the lfg tool. Most of the groups successfully completing Vet DLC dungeons are not pugs. Those dungeons are not new player or casual friendly, and frankly the majority of players can’t do them because they don’t have enough dps or inclination to learn mechanics. Players placed in an in progress vet dlc instance almost always bail immediately, because they’d rather take the penalty than spend 2 hours wiping.

B. The adjustmemts did not apply to the majority of fights players struggle with, or any of the newer dungeons.

C. Most people choosing to run vet DLC dungeons aren’t queuing. We group with friends and guildmates, if we need to pug we do it in some chat and require experience with it. Anyone intentionally queuing for the vet DLCs is doing so knowing it will be a hard time, and a long cycle of people joining and immediately leaving the group. The long wait for a separate queue might actually be shorter than the current process

D. You’re not wrong about this, but with the ever increasing number of dungeon DLCs, groups now have a 50% chance of getting something that can be completed with pugs. That’s a 50% chance of a frustrating experience that is likely to end with disbanding and a queue penalty. The odds of failure are too high for the inexperienced and unguilded who use the groupfinder most

Neyane · April 2019

Pugging vet dlc dungeons especially the newer ones, is absolute hell. I think they should be taken out of the random finder, those who want to pug those dungeons are free to do so.

abigfishy · April 2019

My main account is subbed. My backup account isn't and it is MUCH more fun doing daily randoms on that one that never gets the DLCs. It is 30 minutes of fun rather than 60 minutes of frustration followed by giving in having achieved nothing. I notice that frequently when the DLC spawns that 1-2 players just leave anyway before it even starts.

The DLCs are a great challenge. With a good guild group I love trying to master them. With a PUG group they are a disaster!

Taleof2Cities · April 2019

Nyladreas wrote: »

I don't mind playing DLC dungeons, but NOT WHEN i have like 1 hour of time on that given day. I can just stop playing the game at that point.

Reverb wrote: »

Everyone does. And the more of them they add, the more disincentive there is to use the groupfinder.

If you’re on a specific schedule or need a quick clear you don’t use the dungeon finder for a random dungeon.

Find a pre-made group instead.

Pretty simple ... but players overlook this all the time when complaining about DLC dungeons.

redspecter23 · April 2019

At this point I think they are far more likely to just remove all incentive from random dungeons completely as a means of quieting people over this issue.

Personally, I'm of the belief that if a set of dungeons can be excluded by opting out of owning the DLC, it should also be possible to exclude them if you do own the DLC. The fact that there is a negative impact from buying DLC content is an issue that should be looked at. There should never be any downsides to giving the company money other than your wallet gets a little lighter.

Painstormx · April 2019

Or they could balance the dungeons like they do in other games, so that a normal dungeon is actually just that.
Difficulty in the different dungeons should vary maybe +/- 15%. The +/- 100% range in dungeon difficulty in ESO is just bad design.
It's a nightmare for all parties when a low level (without any CP) randomly gets assigned to a difficult DLC dungeon.

kmcaj · April 2019

It's one of the reasons that keeps me from subbing at times. Thinking about doing the 90 day sub but then do I want my daily random DLC for 90 days.

SRTtoZ · April 2019

Like others said that would mess with queues quite a bit but I’m all for toning down some of the one shot mechanics on them. Leave one shots for Veteran dungeons not normal.

vgabor · April 2019

You already have that option, you just have to cancel your ESO+ subscription

Lapin_Logic · April 2019

Nyladreas wrote: »

I'm just getting really tired of getting hard DLC dungeons with new people that don't know how to follow mechanics let alone even pick their skills. This is not me hating on newbies, i love to help them and teach them new things, however when i'm on a tight time schedule and just wanting to get my daily XP bonus it's really frustrating having to spend up to 2 if not sometimes 3 hours in a single dungeon trying and failing over and over and over again.

So, can we please implement an option to EXCLUDE DLC DUNGEONS FROM RANDOM QUEUE?

Thanks.

100% yes on an option to join a queue with or without DLC dungeons, those of us on a TIME LIMIT cant play any random because a random can be 5 minutes, or 6 Hours depending on the PUG

Nyladreas · April 2019

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

I'm just getting really tired of getting hard DLC dungeons with new people that don't know how to follow mechanics let alone even pick their skills. This is not me hating on newbies, i love to help them and teach them new things, however when i'm on a tight time schedule and just wanting to get my daily XP bonus it's really frustrating having to spend up to 2 if not sometimes 3 hours in a single dungeon trying and failing over and over and over again.

So, can we please implement an option to EXCLUDE DLC DUNGEONS FROM RANDOM QUEUE?

Thanks.

100% yes on an option to join a queue with or without DLC dungeons, those of us on a TIME LIMIT cant play any random because a random can be 5 minutes, or 6 Hours depending on the PUG

That's exactly what I'm talking about. If and when i have the whole day I'll gladly do DLC dungeons too, or whatever it is the game has to offer.

DLM · April 2019

Nyladreas wrote: »

(...) when i'm on a tight time schedule and just wanting to get my daily XP bonus (...)

I'll stop you right there. If all you care is the daily bonus, there is a simple solution that doesn't require anything from ZOS: run your damn random in normal, you get the same reward and same XP.

thorwyn · April 2019

Or they could balance the dungeons like they do in other games, so that a normal dungeon is actually just that.
Difficulty in the different dungeons should vary maybe +/- 15%. The +/- 100% range in dungeon difficulty in ESO is just bad design.

How do you calculate difficulty? What's difficult for me doesn't have to be difficult for you and vice versa. The difference between DLC and non-DLC dungeons are the mechanics. You either know them and play them properly, or you don't and fail. There is nothing in between.

Gatviper · April 2019

I'd really appreciate the option to toggle off DLC dungeons from doing the random queue. In the meantime I'm just staying on the next-best solution - running without ESO+. Missing the craft bag, yes, but otherwise it's not bad, as long as I don't have any dungeon-only DLCs purchased.
When I gather enough of the more valuable craft mats rewarded for random runs, I'll get ESO+ for a month just to stash it off. That way daily random dungeons stay fun.

mjharper · April 2019

thorwyn wrote: »

Or they could balance the dungeons like they do in other games, so that a normal dungeon is actually just that.
Difficulty in the different dungeons should vary maybe +/- 15%. The +/- 100% range in dungeon difficulty in ESO is just bad design.

How do you calculate difficulty? What's difficult for me doesn't have to be difficult for you and vice versa. The difference between DLC and non-DLC dungeons are the mechanics. You either know them and play them properly, or you don't and fail. There is nothing in between.

No, it isn't. In non-dlc dungeons on normal I can typically crush a dozen mobs at once. Many bosses barely even dent my health. I can solo certain non-dlc vet dungeons. But last time I went to Falkreath Hold solo (not even the hardest dlc dungeon), the first group of three mobs took me down in seconds, and the first mino one-shot me.

Now 'mechanics' may be a part of that. But many dlc dungeons have elite mobs who are simple more dangerous—do more damage, take more damage—than actual bosses in the non-dlc dungeons.

thorwyn · April 2019

No, it isn't. In non-dlc dungeons on normal I can typically crush a dozen mobs at once. Many bosses barely even dent my health. I can solo certain non-dlc vet dungeons. But last time I went to Falkreath Hold solo (not even the hardest dlc dungeon), the first group of three mobs took me down in seconds, and the first mino one-shot me.

Now 'mechanics' may be a part of that. But many dlc dungeons have elite mobs who are simple more dangerous—do more damage, take more damage—than actual bosses in the non-dlc dungeons.

Of course some DLC mobs hit harder than the FG1 beetle. Dungeons are representing some kind of progressive challenge. But since dungeons are not designed to be soloed and have a level check before you can enter them, all additional challenges should be managable. Tougher mobs usually just means longer fights and toning everything down to non-DLC level would be just dull for those people who are looking for a challenge.

WeerW3ir · April 2019

Do not pay eso+. and you wont have XD

Painstormx · April 2019

thorwyn wrote: »

How do you calculate difficulty? What's difficult for me doesn't have to be difficult for you and vice versa. The difference between DLC and non-DLC dungeons are the mechanics. You either know them and play them properly, or you don't and fail. There is nothing in between.

I strongly disagree.
It has got nothing to do with mechanics, when in one dungeon a trash mob can run over and hit you with a 5-6k hit, but in another (DLC) dungeon a similar trash mob can one shot you with a 15k hit. That is just poor balancing.
Some DLC bosses do massive unavoidable damage that will kill a low level player who does not yet have the skills or CP's to mitigate some of the damage.

redspecter23 · April 2019

SRTtoZ wrote: »

Like others said that would mess with queues quite a bit but I’m all for toning down some of the one shot mechanics on them. Leave one shots for Veteran dungeons not normal.

Right now, with the current situation I NEVER hit up random queue unless it's a full guild run because I might get a DLC (even normal) with others that just aren't capable of running it in a timely manner. If we had a situation where I could exclude DLC, I would actually do the randoms and often vet randoms. In my personal example, removing DLC from the random queue would have the effect of adding another person to the non DLC queue (normal and sometimes vet) while having no change on the DLC queue (I wouldn't be in it in either case).

thorwyn · April 2019

It has got nothing to do with mechanics, when in one dungeon a trash mob can run over and hit you with a 5-6k hit, but in another (DLC) dungeon a similar trash mob can one shot you with a 15k hit. That is just poor balancing.

How is that poor balancing? It's different mobs and you will have to face them at different levels and with different equipment. Lvl 10 folks are struggling with the mobs in FG1 just like CP 300 people are stuggling with mobs in bloodroot forge. You can of course tone it all down to more or less one level, but that would completely ignore the character progression.

Some DLC bosses do massive unavoidable damage that will kill a low level player who does not yet have the skills or CP's to mitigate some of the damage.

If a player meets the level/CP requirements, he is able to survive all incoming damage AS LONG AS the source of the damage is not related to missing a mechanic.

Painstormx · April 2019

thorwyn wrote: »

How is that poor balancing? It's different mobs and you will have to face them at different levels and with different equipment. Lvl 10 folks are struggling with the mobs in FG1 just like CP 300 people are stuggling with mobs in bloodroot forge. You can of course tone it all down to more or less one level, but that would completely ignore the character progression.

It's a problem because the random dungeon finder doesn't really differentiate between the dungeons with regards to your gear level, so a level 30 might be thrown into a dungeon balanced for CP 200 people.
I don't might dungeons being of different difficulty if they were put into different brackets, like at below 50 you can do dungeon A/B/C, at CP 200 you can do A/B/C/D/E etc.

Riejael · April 2019

Painstormx wrote: »

Or they could balance the dungeons like they do in other games, so that a normal dungeon is actually just that.

None of the normal dungeons, DLC or not are as near the difficulty or complexity of the majority of dungeons in FFXIV used in its main story quest. So no, other games don't make dungeons easier than they already are here.

The issue ESO has is the easiest dungeons like Fungal Grotto, Wayrest, ect, are still part of the endgame rotation. Players don't get used to things like Frostvault because they don't really need to. The risk vs reward simply isn't there. The change needed would be that the easiest dungeons should drop inferior sets to harder ones.

If the best sets come out of the hardest content, then there will be a clear line of progression for players to work through. Rather than spamming through Crypt of Hearts or City of Ash for the 100th time for a daily dungeon bonus, cursing the time when ICP/WGT pops up in random, people will actually want to do the harder dungeons and actually learn them.

KhajiitFelix · April 2019

Then it's not random

Canned_Apples · April 2019

DLC dungeons rarely pop- the only reason they're popping up now is because of the pledge reward boxes.
If you want to avoid trickier dungeons, then queue with a low level.

mobicera · April 2019

I actually like dlc dungeons, though getting vet with people ill prepared does get old rather quickly. Though if doing random normal all dlc dungeons are pretty simple..
Really if you only have 10 mins to run a random with pugs why do you even que?
Personally I don't cringe when I get a dlc 90% of the time I like it...

Silverhand2156 · April 2019

DLC dungeons are the best ones though

They're actually challenging unlike the rest