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Event PVP: Was this an exploit or no?
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Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's not an exploit, but it does suck and is immensely frustrating. It's just something that weak players do to pad their kill count since they likely can't kill someone in an actual real fight, not much different than running with a zerg.
Yes, well said, now I'm thinking of the muppets who'd immediately run to their car and try and run you down when in a coop mission in GTAO.
Stat padders.2 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's not an exploit at all. That's how remote doors work in ESO. If you're getting a load screen from one each time, that is likely a client issue.
Players are allowed to fortify the other side. A group as competent as the one performing the door camp is capable of breaking it.
It's true that unprepared disorganized players will have problems defeating an experienced, well equipped PVP group in this scenario. That's to be expected.
It's a crappy mechanic which many do not like, but fortifying the other side of a door is 100% legitimate. I don't want to see ZOS waste any time addressing this because it's a non-factor in AvA the VAST majority of the time. We have bigger fish to fry and PVE loot addicts will be salivating at some other scratch card soon.Edited by zyk on April 23, 2019 2:19AM1 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
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That's how doors function. It is intended. There is no bug being exploited. There isn't usually a loading screen. I do not get one. It's a bad mechanic, but fortifying the other side is, in fact, legitimate. PVP players have been arguing about this for years and NO ONE has ever been banned or warned for a door farm.
I am willing to bet the average PVE only player has 10x more addons than the average PVP player and it's been proven that addons can cause loading screen issues where there would otherwise be none.
You guys act like you're refugees being deprived of aid packages when in reality you're spoiled kids raging because you didn't get enough for Christmas.Edited by zyk on April 23, 2019 2:55AM4 -
Synnastix✭✭✭✭I died to this a few times, usually just go quest in another town and let those guys have the house. My team owns the map, so killing me gives a free port to the next quest hub. When I run out quests on one toon, switch toons and start again.
Minor inconvenience for me since killing me gives a free port across the map, if you want me again have fun with your 15 minutes of Cyrodiil Horse Simulator to get there.
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Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
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That's how doors function. It is intended. There is no bug being exploited. There isn't usually a loading screen. I do not get one. It's a bad mechanic, but fortifying the other side is, in fact, legitimate. PVP players have been arguing about this for years and NO ONE has ever been banned or warned for a door farm.
I am willing to bet the average PVE only player has 10x more addons than the average PVP player and it's been proven that addons can cause loading screen issues where there would otherwise be none.
You guys act like you're refugees being deprived of aid packages when in reality you're spoiled kids raging because you didn't get enough for Christmas.
It is completely typical to have a load time into interiors. They work the same as housing by the way, you can see exactly how that input lockout time works just by going between interiors and exteriors of player houses. Moving to an interior has a load time because the location of the interior is beneath the ground and requires relocating the player character. During that time you are prohibited from all input commands and the screen goes black.
However, it’s completely atypical for someone to say it’s fair play when there is absolutely no indication from outside of any traps laid on the door, there’s also no way to force those players out of the house as it’s nondestructable.
Sure maybe the event is nothing but extras, but you can’t start an event that rewards running laps, then say it’s fair play when some trolls start mobbing up on people to make sure they can’t move.
Easy fix: remove the doors or put the questivers outside the buildings
Edited by Jhalin on April 23, 2019 3:41AM3 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You aren’t going to convince someone using the exploit as a crutch that it’s an exploit.
Zos has already acknowledged and implemented changes for this problem (loading screen killing) in the game, they just need to do it for one more area.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom1 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The term exploit is being thrown around too casually here. Typically in the context of computer gaming, it is analogous to cheating. What's happening with doors is not cheating. The word exploit by itself is not negative; exploiting a sale to get a better price on a product is generally considered good.
The players setting up door camps are using the remote interior mechanic as it was designed to gain an advantage, yes. But it's not cheating because the door is working as intended. It's a bad design and should be fixed, but the players taking advantage of it are not cheating in any conceivable way.
In a properly functioning client, there will be no load screens. By load screen, I mean one with graphics and a tip. Most players will experience the same delay they have entering the interior of, for example, rawl bank.
I don't like door camps and I haven't once intentionally hunted a quester, so I'm not defending my own actions here, but the hyperbole is ridiculous.
If anything, ZOS should just remove the loot boxes from these quest rewards. No PVP focused player will want ZOS to prioritize a door in Bruma over anything else. This is only an issue because of loot box addiction.3 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can we stop pretending that killing players 6v1 as they zone into a building is PvP? It's taking advantage of game mechanics to defeat players who can't fight back, and it's pathetic. It's like walking into a daycare, smacking around the toddlers there, and then bragging about your fighting skills.
I PvP mostly and agree with this. This is the reason why doors on resource towers were removed. Removing doors in those houses wouldn't be possible as interiors are on a bit different "ground level", but immunity like in IC when passing through doors would do the trick.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.6 -
Ramber✭✭✭✭it was a sad group or players or even a guild just killing questers... yay and awesome.. wow you guys are gud af0
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zyk✭✭✭✭✭
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Why bother? It's a non-issue outside of these lame events that encourage players to do the worst quests in the game. All ZOS needs to do is make it so only gate quests award loot boxes.I PvP mostly and agree with this. This is the reason why doors on resource towers were removed. Removing doors in those houses wouldn't be possible as interiors are on a bit different "ground level", but immunity like in IC when passing through doors would do the trick.
IMO, ZOS understood PVE questers would be hunted, but they saw it as a good thing because it would spread players out and participation is completely optional. Unfortunately, the typical loot box grinder is time urgent with no tolerance for adversity whatsoever.2 -
Mr_Nobody✭✭✭✭✭People who call killing players in a PvP zone griefing are hilarious!
This is why we love PvE events in Cyrodiil!
This is as much griefing as if I was to complain in Craglorn that nobody takes me into nCR.
Logic? None. Exactly.
CAMPING, KILLING PVE'RS, TAKING SCROLLS, TAKING KEEPS OR RESOURCES, everything including Blue, Red and Yellow is not griefing.
If you cannot finish your quests in populated campaigns - feel free to change them, but beware, I am there also!
Tbh i just had a thought that it is ANYTHING but Griefing. It in fact follows the lore and Alliance War itself. Why would I allow Reds and Yellows invade Bruma??? You serious??? And while AD may be happy at Vlastrus, I will surely meet them in Nisin's Cave. Ha ha ha ha haEdited by Mr_Nobody on April 23, 2019 6:11AM6 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭People who call killing players in a PvP zone griefing are hilarious!
This is why we love PvE events in Cyrodiil!
This is as much griefing as if I was to complain in Craglorn that nobody takes me into nCR.
Logic? None. Exactly.
CAMPING, KILLING PVE'RS, TAKING SCROLLS, TAKING KEEPS OR RESOURCES, everything including Blue, Red and Yellow is not griefing.
If you cannot finish your quests in populated campaigns - feel free to change them, but beware, I am there also!
Tbh i just had a thought that it is ANYTHING but Griefing. It in fact follows the lore and Alliance War itself. Why would I allow Reds and Yellows invade Bruma??? You serious??? And while AD may be happy at Vlastrus, I will surely meet them in Nisin's Cave. Ha ha ha ha ha
Hmmm... I can't make up my mind: would an uptake in new PVPers having observed this behaviour result in 'monkey see, monkey do' or 'denial and error'? ...
That said, should we even expect an uptake of players after we wreck them all repeatedly and make them feel unwelcome and their experience crappy and unpleasant?
Edited by mairwen85 on April 23, 2019 8:37AM3 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Honestly, the constant whining from pve players this week.
They actually have the balls to say PVP players whine and ruin the game... Not exactly covering yourself in glory this week PvErs.
Sure, it's pathetic just killing PvErs who are questing. Coming to the forum to cry about it though...Edited by Brrrofski on April 23, 2019 8:40AM2 -
MjolnirVilkas✭✭✭✭I think opposing factions working together questing, not capping, not pvping in general and what not, is exploitation of the pvp zone and it's basic gameplay aspects. Not much different than organized multifaction keep AP farming from a while back.Sick liaisons raised this monumental mark
The sun sets forever over Blackwater Park0 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Most of the idiots camping towns are just crap. I just 1v2'd tryhard gankers in Bruma with a semi-squishy group build NB no problems, and whilst I enjoy PvP, I'd never say I'm good at it.
Having said that, if you're door exploiting you should be banned. Even if only on the general principle that PvP in this game is in poor health, and you're actively working to discourage new blood.2 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭People who call killing players in a PvP zone griefing are hilarious!
This is why we love PvE events in Cyrodiil!
This is as much griefing as if I was to complain in Craglorn that nobody takes me into nCR.
Logic? None. Exactly.
CAMPING, KILLING PVE'RS, TAKING SCROLLS, TAKING KEEPS OR RESOURCES, everything including Blue, Red and Yellow is not griefing.
If you cannot finish your quests in populated campaigns - feel free to change them, but beware, I am there also!
Tbh i just had a thought that it is ANYTHING but Griefing. It in fact follows the lore and Alliance War itself. Why would I allow Reds and Yellows invade Bruma??? You serious??? And while AD may be happy at Vlastrus, I will surely meet them in Nisin's Cave. Ha ha ha ha ha
Hmmm... I can't make up my mind: would an uptake in new PVPers having observed this behaviour result in 'monkey see, monkey do' or 'denial and error'? ...
That said, should we even expect an uptake of players after we wreck them all repeatedly and make them feel unwelcome and their experience crappy and unpleasant?
Honestly, I have a few beers under my belt, so I'm not even going to bother trying to be diplomatic (not that I would anyway).
I've found in my years that people in general are dumb. They don't look forward past "me want". Gamers seem to take that one level further, and PvP gamers in particular seem to stretch their hands to the sky in reach of the holy grail of idiocy every chance they get.
PvP in this game is dying. It's rattling out its last breaths. On X-NA, outside of prime time, only Vivec isn't a ghost town. The rest... forget it. I used to be able to find good small scale battles in Sotha up until 3-4 months ago. Now? I've 2 manned 3 keeps in a row in Sotha waiting for a fight before giving up in disgust. A grand display of either "hi, we're massive flaming arses", or treating noobs to the joy of "loading screen... dead" serves the game very very poorly in the long run, and will only hasten it's (the PvP part anyway) demise, and for what? A few K AP. If you want AP take a keep. Hell, if all you gankers got together in Sotha you could probably get a pretty far way in to painting the map. Buy some siege gear and have at it. Maybe then we could all enjoy a good old fashioned fight amongst folk who actually want to fight each other. Instead, we have... boorish inanity.
PvPers on the forum often refer to themselves as the elite in the game, but PvLoadScreen is hardly a demonstration of l33tness. Nor is 10 v 1 pve player. I reckon half of you would run a race against a 5 year old and expect the Chariots of Fire theme to be playing as you win.
SMH. As someone who is neither a PvEer, or PvPer, but someone who plays all the game, I'm embarrassed of you, and for you.
Worst part is I suspect I'll be just as embarrassed and ashamed next week.5 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
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They don't have doors anymore because it's not an exploit, if it was an exploit the doors would remain and players would be banned.
Them removing doors is a prime example of them changing a design rather than proof of an exploit5 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
They don't have doors anymore because it's not an exploit, if it was an exploit the doors would remain and players would be banned.
Them removing doors is a prime example of them changing a design rather than proof of an exploit
That's some of the most tortured logic I've seen on a forum. Care to explain how killing players as they are stuck in a load screen is not an exploit? Is there some amazing trick that enables a solo player to roll-dodge and leap through aoes and dots whilst they are in a load screen? If so, please, tell me now, load screens are littered throughout cyro and I for one am sick of getting ganked by them. Some days I think my death recap should be:
Loading Screen: 9,874 damage.
Loading Screen: 8,659 damage.
Loading Screen: 9,598 damage.
Hint: Try and avoid loading screens.
Exploit, mate. You know it, I know it.4 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
They don't have doors anymore because it's not an exploit, if it was an exploit the doors would remain and players would be banned.
Them removing doors is a prime example of them changing a design rather than proof of an exploit
Yeah, this is more or less my stance--and I've farmed a town door or two this past weekend.
It's "exploiting" a weakness in design, but it is designed. It's not an exploit in the sense that people usually use it in terms of the game.
Roof farming (which is also getting patched out) is the same way--it's absolutely taking advantage of messed up design, but the stairs were initially designed to be destroyed. ZOS decided that was unwanted behavior and is patching it out, but nobody's getting banned for roof farming. Same for old tower farming.
They should have removed the doors from these buildings (or moved the questgivers outside after the very first midyear mayhem, when this happened. They should probably make it impossible to bring scrolls into these buildings. But as long as it's possible...Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭isn't exploiting a weakness in design considered an exploit ?
People use "exploit" to mean cheat/hack/abusing a bug.
Technically, using overpowered sets is "exploiting a weakness in design." It's intended, built behavior--it's not cheating. It IS taking advantage of a poor design decision.
Kind of a "Clinton No" situation, but that's how language works. /shrug.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub1 -
NeroBad✭✭✭✭My opinion is that those who do indoor griefing are a sad sadistic people who have frustrating real life, and are not that good in main server PVP so they make this week their few happy moments where they feel powerfull, because without these experience they would feel garbage, but the truth is they are garbage. Also indoor quest givers in PVP is bad game design.4 -
Raammzzaa✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
They don't have doors anymore because it's not an exploit, if it was an exploit the doors would remain and players would be banned.
Them removing doors is a prime example of them changing a design rather than proof of an exploit
That's some of the most tortured logic I've seen on a forum. Care to explain how killing players as they are stuck in a load screen is not an exploit? Is there some amazing trick that enables a solo player to roll-dodge and leap through aoes and dots whilst they are in a load screen? If so, please, tell me now, load screens are littered throughout cyro and I for one am sick of getting ganked by them. Some days I think my death recap should be:
Loading Screen: 9,874 damage.
Loading Screen: 8,659 damage.
Loading Screen: 9,598 damage.
Hint: Try and avoid loading screens.
Exploit, mate. You know it, I know it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_exploit
I linked above the definition of a “video game exploit” per Wikipedia. One can make the argument that this is in no way an exploit since no change to the program, or external program is being used. Personally, I think this comes down to whether you think the developers intended this game mechanic, or not.
I have never seen the developers comment on it one way, or another. They definitely are aware of all the ways players farm each other in Cyrodiil, and I’ve never heard them suggest that anyone doing a scroll farm is exploiting. Personally, it’s crossed my mind that some of them may in fact find these threads as hilarious as I do.1
