Osteos wrote: »

Honestly most of this toxicity is just drummed up forum drama. Most people in game are great. Yes you run into jerks every now and then. It is not as common as the forums would have you believe.

IDK, it seems to be getting worse... now I'm seeing in Cyro zone chat people from other factions signing into AD alts (I am AD and am aware that people from every faction are doing this... just using what I've seen in my home campaign as an example) to taunt/insult people. Legit AD people were mocking and berating the AD PvE-ers who were trying to start groups to go after the building campers.

It's a mess, both within and between factions. In zone chat what I'm generally seeing (from the AD PvPers to the AD PvE-ers) is:

(when a town gets taken over) "LOL u pve-ers suck git gud"
(when the pve-ers try to rally to take the town back aka "git gud"): "LOL u pve-ers are hopeless"

And on the side of PvE we've got the elitists who kick people from dungeons for not behaving exactly how they want them to with no explanation or offers to help. Again, "git gud" but no attempt to help.

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

SaltySudd wrote: »

When you see someone struggling in PvP, instead of saying "lol get out of Cyrodiil idiot"

We don't ask that they leave, we ask that they respawn to come back and do some more "learning". We PvPers are an inclusive bunch... what towns are we questing in today, I was hoping we could have more lessons.

Yes many PVPers are helpful, but as the OP pointed out, we have our share of shitebirds, just like the PvE-only community does. These types are the ones that create this divide with their divisive, toxic behavior. It’s up to the rest of us to show that not everyone in our community is an elitist pr*ck, by helping the newbies.

Anonymity and distance allow for this sort of behavior without consequence, and it's been like this on the internet since 1990. We can put trolls and ragers on ignore when they are truly awful to interact with. The broader issue of the PvE vs PvP culture is a problem derivative of ZOS's game design, and the design of their events.

Here is my take after reading a lot on forums and chatting with people over the week. One's ability to participate in both environments is a function of time and money invested in the game, which influences your decisions. Your personal preference of gameplay also plays a role in your decisions. There is also a philosophical undercurrent in PvE vs PvP gameplay that creates a baseline position for community interaction. PvE players are highly incentivized to share information in order to improve the quality of players to group with. Before this event, I thought that PvP would have the same collaborative approach due to alliance and group dependence, but it does not.

The choices people make in gameplay, once made, mean that they are entrenched in the particular mode of operation for that gameplay unless they try to do both well, which consumes more time/money. To those that lack empathy and an understanding of different perspectives, there is an inability to comprehend why someone would not make the same decisions that they have already made, which creates a sense of superiority over people who are not like them.

When these communities come into contact in events, there is friction because (a) players from an alternate community are not competent in their community, (b) there is resentment that the players in the alternate community don't invest their time the same way, (c) the personalities associated with the decisions to participate in a particular mode of gameplay are sometimes incompatible, and (d) there is no trust that time invested to "train someone up" or help them out will pay off personally because the incentives for those moving from one community to another are time-limited. All of this contributes to a negative environment.

Furthermore, PvE is inherently collaborative, and there are no truly sustainable opportunities to grief players, since griefers ultimately get ignored. PvP is inherently competitive and involves conflict, and the opportunities for collaboration typically involve either achieving game objectives, or targeting other players and killing them regardless of the broader game. The former is appropriate, in a game context the latter is allowed in the game context, but it's the thing that leads to the most resentment, because it feels like you are getting ganged up on by bullies.

Take Baxilt-Gah in Murkmire. During the WB event week, I participated in large groups repeatedly every day, and killing him was almost comical in that environment. Imagine that Baxilt-Gah was an actual person, whose job it was to show up every 8 minutes in Murkmire and challenge players with his amazing powers. And every 8 minutes for an entire week, 24/7, he is getting spammed by zerg groups and wiped out in seconds. I would super hate that job, and if that were an actual person, I probably wouldn't go there in those massive gang up groups as much as I did, because I would feel bad for that person.

When PvP gangs get together to hold down a village quest house, you, the player, are their Baxit-Gah. They don't care about the fact that you are a person, or that you might be getting tired of getting killed over and over again, because you drop valuable incentives, and after all, it's just a game. Why would you be getting so mad and upset over a game? They either do not empathize with your position, or they have other issues built up that inspire their behavior despite their empathy (e.g. they got kicked from a trial for incompetence, they like making other people unhappy, they resent having to do PvE to get PvP gear).

I predict that most of the PvP folks reading this will interpret it as whining, make a snide comment, and then ignore it. To those individuals, I challenge you to openly share your mindset, and point out where this mental model is incorrect, because I'd enjoy reading alternative perspectives.

SaltySudd wrote: »

I do not understand why so many people feel the need to mock others who have different gameplay preferences. This goes for both 'sides'. Just because a player spends most of their time in PvP and has low DPS in PvE content doesn't mean that you should shame them. Just because a players spends most of their time in PvE and doesn't understand the mechanics to PvP doesn't mean that you should mock them.

I agree.

Let's mock the people who who spend lots of time in pve and still have low dps/don't know the mechanics & make fun of the pvpers who get wrecked by the pve players instead. They're far more worthy of our abuse

My dad’s ePeen can beat up your dad’s ePeen.

Its unfortunate we all cant try to have a little more fun minus the toxicity. When we game most of us are decompressing so why the need for harmful comments towards others? If you PvP good for you. If you PvE or both, salude!

I always have hope, but we all know how people act when they feel safe and sound behind their microphones/keyboard . Our global society has really taken a huge dive in the common courtesy department over the last 20 years.