Drizzt Do-Liftin's Medium Armor Hybrid Dk, THE STAM WHIP BUILD!!!!! The Stam Whip we’ve all wanted.

MartiniDaniels · April 2019

Thanks for build idea, I adjusted it for my race/needs but overall it's very similar and I'm having great fun with it now both in BG and no-CP Cyro. Double whip really works as you described providing heal burst while you are finishing somebody under fire of his teammates.

Btw, if PTS changes go live this build will be even more powerful and we may even sacrifice heal to build up more pressure with molten whip:

Dragonknight
Ardent Flame
Fiery Breath: Increased the damage of the initial hit of this ability by 200% to be on par with our PBAoE standards. The base ability will now rank up in damage for the entire ability, rather than just the DoT.

Lava Whip: Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by 5% to put it in line with other melee
Molten Whip (morph): Reworked this ability so it no longer grants a passive bonus to Weapon and Spell Damage while slotted. Instead, this passive grants access to Seething Fury, a 33% damage bonus to your next Molten Whip cast and increase of 125 Weapon and Spell Damage every time you activate an Ardent Flame ability that isn't Molten Whip. This bonus can stack up to 3 times, lasts 5 seconds, and will refresh in duration every time it is applied to you. “spammables”.

Searing Strike: Adjusted this ability and its morphs to follow our standardized Damage Over Time ruleset. Decreased the total duration to 8 seconds from 8.5 seconds, and increased the damage per tick by approximately 12.5% to make up for the loss of the first tick. This will result in roughly the same overall DPS, but with less burst damage.

SkysOutThizeOut · April 2019

@MartiniDaniels thanks for bringing this to my attention. Does molten whip scale off highest stat? The issue is no spell pen though... which is my concern with molten. Does the wd persist when you bar swap?

MartiniDaniels · April 2019

Topics I see from my tests on PTS:
1. Damage increase persists on bar swap
2. Buff timer is renewed only when other ardent flame ability is cast from bar with molten whip, but can be prolonged indefinitely if we will spam noxious for example, which now have more damage then rending slashes on live
3. We receive up to +375 base WD and SD, which is then scaled by huge WD modifier % of this build (20+10+17+3%). So full buffed it's +553 WD in tooltip.
4. Damage of molten whip increases up to 100% and becomes more then damage of wreckling blow
5. Buff is consumed when molten whip is used

SkysOutThizeOut · April 2019

@MartiniDaniels the new foo could be nice. But I really want to get some spell pen worked in there. Def seems like it’ll persist as a no cp set up

Alucardo · April 2019

As OP as the 2.7k power lashes look like, I think I might stick to heroic. I know we all want that sexy whip on a stam dk, but I just don't see it outshining weapon skills

MartiniDaniels · April 2019

Bothered to create almost exact copy of live hybrid on PTS, tooltips look not bad imo (esp. noxious) and they are mostly with only 2 of 3 WD procs (senche+molten proc but without berserker) , which is more close to reality, since I doubt all 3 will be active simultaneously in real combat where you might be cc'd etc. Vigor with major mending, but healing received bonus not accounted.
Good thing here is that fire damage somewhat offsets vampire's undeath and in comparison to magDK we have execute.

(on char screenshot: CP campaign, tri-pot active, major/minor brutality, major ward/resolve, senche proc, stacked molten whip proc, not vampire, no infused berserker proc, no resource/keep/scrolls bonuses)

SkysOutThizeOut · April 2019

@MartiniDaniels damn that molten whip would hit so much harder as straight mag.

Jjitsuboy98 · April 2019

So is pelenials a good damage set for mag DK. Say you run it in medium and add a damage set

SkysOutThizeOut · April 2019

@Jjitsuboy98 search my name you’ll find my threads on it. But yes pelinials is a good damage set if you run straight weapon damage. There are 2 version. Stam damage hybrid where pelinial is 1 bar’d and mag damage hybrid where it’s 2 bar’d. It’s hybrid in so far as heals, not necessarily damage. It’s more successful in no cp.

MartiniDaniels · April 2019

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

@MartiniDaniels damn that molten whip would hit so much harder as straight mag.

But you won't have so much SD if not hybrid. I tried building around Moon Hunter inferno and heavy armor on dunmer before wrathstone and it was meh. Though I may gave it another try with nord and light armor. Also this whip is with zero CP to elemental expert so it will be higher in magicka oriented set up. On live I use hybrid in no-CP, now there is no no-CP campaign on PTS.

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

So is pelenials a good damage set for mag DK. Say you run it in medium and add a damage set

There is already damage set on back bar, i.e. senche. Of course you may go with Seventh legion, I prefer senche simply because of wood elf synergy with it and free 1500 weapon/spell penetration on roll-dodge, on other race it will be pointless and I think that nord or orc or dunmer here will do just fine or better.

SkysOutThizeOut · April 2019

@MartiniDaniels you’ve seen my mag damage “hybrid” yeah? Emphasis is on magicka over stam.

Davadin · April 2019

18k whip on stam/hybrid?

damn looks like this is the new BiS setup for all those salty StamDK that got ignored comes June lol (me included)

this Is easier than swapping everything into a full-fledge MagDK.

holy *** that whip tho....

MartiniDaniels · April 2019

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

@MartiniDaniels you’ve seen my mag damage “hybrid” yeah? Emphasis is on magicka over stam.

Yep, that 1vX at the gate was amazing, I laughed so hard from those sorcs

but now wings are no more, so magDK will be more like glass cannon, who survives only on healing, while hybrid will be less burst but more versatile overall.

Davadin wrote: »

18k whip on stam/hybrid?

damn looks like this is the new BiS setup for all those salty StamDK that got ignored comes June lol (me included)

this Is easier than swapping everything into a full-fledge MagDK.

holy *** that whip tho....

Well, you need to build up that whip while keeping rather short time-window, so here noxious works more like spammable and whip like proc similar to grim focus, though you don't have any notification when it is "charged". Good thing is noxious have it's own initial damage now so on non-hybrid I guess it may hit 10k in CP campaign.

Jjitsuboy98 · April 2019

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

@Jjitsuboy98 search my name you’ll find my threads on it. But yes pelinials is a good damage set if you run straight weapon damage. There are 2 version. Stam damage hybrid where pelinial is 1 bar’d and mag damage hybrid where it’s 2 bar’d. It’s hybrid in so far as heals, not necessarily damage. It’s more successful in no cp.

So I thought u scrapped this build. Do u still run pelenial?

SkysOutThizeOut · April 2019

@Jjitsuboy98 this build isn’t as good on this patch. It’s more of a sustain build. Definitely a no cp setup. But with the changes it definitely looks much more viable in no cp.

Savos_Saren · April 2019

@MartiniDaniels

You can actually get some pretty similar results as a mag build, too. No hybrid necessary:

Note- this is outside of Cyrodiil- so the health would be 29k.

And the spell damage is actually 800 points higher because you don't see Innate or Silks reflecting on character sheet.

I actually went with 5l/1m/1h setup with Innate, Silks, and Mighty Chudan. I wanted to free up having to slot Volatile Armor so that I could run Draw Essence with Empowering Chains. (usually, I run one or the other). These numbers are with Molten Armaments and 3 ticks of Molten Whip.

The only reason that I think you may enjoy a pure mag build is because you don't have to worry about a proc from Senche. You can have 100% uptime.

MartiniDaniels · April 2019

^
Savos, of course, I was never thinking that hybrid can provide more damage then specialized build. And in mage build your penetration is so much better, so you will hit much harder with fire, i guess it will be 20/30% advantage in no-CP/CP.
But you don't have execute, vigor and rally in that setup

light attacks are much weaker too obviously, and ability to roll-dodge break-free is limited too.. still practice will show, I hope they'll fix majority of bugs to the next week and we can test this new builds at least in BG.

Savos_Saren · April 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

^
Savos, of course, I was never thinking that hybrid can provide more damage then specialized build. And in mage build your penetration is so much better, so you will hit much harder with fire, i guess it will be 20/30% advantage in no-CP/CP.
But you don't have execute, vigor and rally in that setup light attacks are much weaker too obviously, and ability to roll-dodge break-free is limited too.. still practice will show, I hope they'll fix majority of bugs to the next week and we can test this new builds at least in BG.

@MartiniDaniels

I have to hand it to ZOS or possibly @ZOS_Gilliam . The new form of Whip may truly be the DK's "pseudo-execute". Vigor and Rally are unneeded. Light attacks are weaker- but with the morph of Molten Armaments- your heavy attacks are 40% stronger. Roll dodge/break free isn't that hard for any build that is running Innate or Shackle (depending on which you prefer).

But, in the hands of someone talented as @SkysOutThizeOut or @Quantum_V or yourself- perhaps you could readjust some specs. I use Stone Giant- which I'm sure you'd replace with Ele Drain. I use Eruption- which you'd replace with Fossilize. You could replace a hell of a lot of my regen for spell damage if you're running Ele Drain and replacing Wings with Harness Magicka.

I happily admit that I'm not a dueler. I can only 1vX with random AvAers and hold my own in AvA fights. But I'm sure duelers could make this build much, much better.

MartiniDaniels · April 2019

@Savos_Saren
It will be fun to see if some cool player will do video on new magDK/hybridDK, though I cant' consider myself one

I am making some tests now comparing live and PTS burst and new whip is so much reliable, since we don't depend on fossilize to proc it. We can actually pre-buff yourself with one noxious/engulfing, to get easy combo LA-embers-LA-noxious-LA-whip.
I'm thinking to replace fossilize with stone giant too, given that wings will no longer protect from clench and we need to calm down that sorc while approaching him.

SkysOutThizeOut · April 2019

@MartiniDaniels if we are investing into molten whip for big damage, then we need to invest primarily into one kind of damage. I recommend mag oriented damage. If you are intent on medium, that’s fine, I strongly recommend doing pierce armor and dropping an execute for it and running engulfing flames. If we stop to examine the 3x130wd x 1.25(medium armor and minor brutality) the damage loss isn’t as significant not running light. And we are maximizing our damage. Emphasis should also be put on mag resources.

@Savos_Saren
I’m strongly considering maintaining pelinials in light for my damage set so I can stay with rally/forward momentum. It gives me a bar slot. Maybe vigor.

Foo/inner/cauterize/igneous, embers, whip, rally, stun

Volatile, wings/RaTs, engulfing, vigor/coag/draw essence/ele drain.

This will work for cp and no cp. My thing is everyone just has a lower physical resistance and physical damage generally scales higher. So I’ve been on stam dk....

A real hybrid will not truly be viable to compete with meta builds until mag/stam or pen is factored like wd/sd on pelinials. Until then Pelinials will just be a damage/sustain set for mag dk and strictly a sustain set on stam dk.

So much damage is just sacrificed trying to do combination damage. I want it to work :-/

Jjitsuboy98 · April 2019

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

@MartiniDaniels if we are investing into molten whip for big damage, then we need to invest primarily into one kind of damage. I recommend mag oriented damage. If you are intent on medium, that’s fine, I strongly recommend doing pierce armor and dropping an execute for it and running engulfing flames. If we stop to examine the 3x130wd x 1.25(medium armor and minor brutality) the damage loss isn’t as significant not running light. And we are maximizing our damage. Emphasis should also be put on mag resources.

@Savos_Saren
I’m strongly considering maintaining pelinials in light for my damage set so I can stay with rally/forward momentum. It gives me a bar slot. Maybe vigor.

Foo/inner/cauterize/igneous, embers, whip, rally, stun

Volatile, wings/RaTs, engulfing, vigor/coag/draw essence/ele drain.

This will work for cp and no cp. My thing is everyone just has a lower physical resistance and physical damage generally scales higher. So I’ve been on stam dk....

A real hybrid will not truly be viable to compete with meta builds until mag/stam or pen is factored like wd/sd on pelinials. Until then Pelinials will just be a damage/sustain set for mag dk and strictly a sustain set on stam dk.

So much damage is just sacrificed trying to do combination damage. I want it to work :-/

When I get a chance ima key it into the builder but I was gonna try light pelenial with a medium damage set with infused weapon damage jewelry. Five one one setup

Jjitsuboy98 · April 2019

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

@MartiniDaniels if we are investing into molten whip for big damage, then we need to invest primarily into one kind of damage. I recommend mag oriented damage. If you are intent on medium, that’s fine, I strongly recommend doing pierce armor and dropping an execute for it and running engulfing flames. If we stop to examine the 3x130wd x 1.25(medium armor and minor brutality) the damage loss isn’t as significant not running light. And we are maximizing our damage. Emphasis should also be put on mag resources.

@Savos_Saren
I’m strongly considering maintaining pelinials in light for my damage set so I can stay with rally/forward momentum. It gives me a bar slot. Maybe vigor.

Foo/inner/cauterize/igneous, embers, whip, rally, stun

Volatile, wings/RaTs, engulfing, vigor/coag/draw essence/ele drain.

This will work for cp and no cp. My thing is everyone just has a lower physical resistance and physical damage generally scales higher. So I’ve been on stam dk....

A real hybrid will not truly be viable to compete with meta builds until mag/stam or pen is factored like wd/sd on pelinials. Until then Pelinials will just be a damage/sustain set for mag dk and strictly a sustain set on stam dk.

So much damage is just sacrificed trying to do combination damage. I want it to work :-/

When I get a chance ima key it into the builder but I was gonna try light pelenial with a medium damage set with infused weapon damage jewelry. Five one one setup

Spec for Magicka DK though

Wing · April 2019

yeah the new whip is interesting but wasn't the point of the whip mainly the heal and used as a pressure tool rather then damage, I feel like if your going to try and make the new whip work that is firmly in the realm of magicka DK

though I do love the discussion.

Savos_Saren · April 2019

Wing wrote: »

yeah the new whip is interesting but wasn't the point of the whip mainly the heal and used as a pressure tool rather then damage, I feel like if your going to try and make the new whip work that is firmly in the realm of magicka DK

though I do love the discussion.

Honestly, I get most of my heals from Coag, Burning Embers, and Draw Essence. I'd much rather have the 18k burst damage from the whip AND the extra 750 spell damage on my abilities.

@SkysOutThizeOut
Would you consider running Pelinal with Innate?

Wing · April 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

yeah the new whip is interesting but wasn't the point of the whip mainly the heal and used as a pressure tool rather then damage, I feel like if your going to try and make the new whip work that is firmly in the realm of magicka DK

though I do love the discussion.

Honestly, I get most of my heals from Coag, Burning Embers, and Draw Essence. I'd much rather have the 18k burst damage from the whip AND the extra 750 spell damage on my abilities.

man I miss being able to run draw essence, such a cool looking skill.

@SkysOutThizeOut
would ever consider a medium armor magicka hybrid?

essentially something more along the lines of Pelinal's Aptitude and then something like 7th, missing out on the pen from light but getting the higher flat damage, then run a more standard magdk front bar (whip, embers, etc) but perhaps using S/B for the stun/defile rather then fossilize (I hate its targeting)
then rocking a 2h back bar with things like rally, vigor, etc. as this would give you ALOT of healing with things like cauterize, lash (could drop for the other morph if it turns out to be far and away better) embers, vigor, rally, etc. while letting you keep up the damage and pressure and still having the 2h execute and better heals overall from higher damage values thanks to wpn dmg value stacking.

SkysOutThizeOut · April 2019

@Wing I have ran one and it was underwhelming.

@Savos_Saren I’m not sure pelinials and innate stack

Savos_Saren · April 2019

I'll make up the build on PTS right fast. You want light Pelinal or medium Pelinal? I'll stack it with Innate to find out.

UPDATE: So, I did test it on a medium build and yes, Pelinal's and Innate stack. But, you're basically getting damn near the same results. 18k whips and 20k leaps- with three stacks from your Ardent Flame abilities.

The only difference is that you have slightly higher resitances (from running medium armor) and you're a little faster. Your penetration and resource management suffers, though. Hope this helps.

SkysOutThizeOut · April 2019

@Savos_Saren yeah man, good effort to help out. Only chance people have at viable hybrid damage builds is no cp thru pierce armor, IMO. The changes to direct damage with noxious and engulfing is going to be amazing tho to not be pure stam and mag. Savos, I’d like to know what your going to run.

Savos_Saren · April 2019

My same build as always- just modified with Mighty Chudan to free up some bar space.

Innate, Silks, Mighty Chudan. My posts above show 18k whips with 20k leaps. 26-27k armor resistances on a light armor build.

I always try to combine Innate with an armor set that compliments a character's class abilities. For Necromancer- I noticed that Innate + Swamp Raider makes abilities hit... nerfably hard.

Yes- that's a single Blast Bones critical hit of 116,654 and that tooltip is from the Forward Momentum (no Cyrodiil buffs).

Necro is going to get nerfed. lol