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Improving Cyrodiil for Questing and Events

Nostrabar
Nostrabar
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I think if you've never done anything in Cyrodiil before, this week has got to be the worst possible way to experience it. The most vile thing has got to be the gangs of weak farmers camping the quest givers. When a stronger group comes in with the tweezers and pulls the little bloodsuckers out, they move to the quest destinations, and gank people there, until they feel strong enough to burrow their tick-like mandibles back into quest-giver rooms again.

I'm not here to whine about it, but to simply declare it toxic, review why it might be happening, and ask what ZoS can do to make this not a thing. For players, we know what we can do: defend the PvEers as they do their quests, and pull out the bugs when they burrow themselves in, but that's tedious, and I'd rather take a keep than kill that stupid lich for the umpteenth time to get an event box. I will mention that people do this because it pays. It pays emotional rewards to the unwell, of course, but multiple people havealso explained that if you kill someone who hasn't done PvP before, when they die you get more AP. One person on this forum explained that he made upwards of 68k AP by killing one group of questers by spawn-camping the quest-giver rooms.

This is, of course, not the whole story, plenty of times you go in like the righteous lady or dude you are, and a CP200-something mag-whatever starts channeling you with a resto staff from 10m. For myself, I often forget to slot the "Admire Me" emote for these occasions, Soon enough, however, they switch to an actual damaging ability anyways, and so they get Ye Ole Ambush+Incap+Surprise+AssasinsWill (or whatever your class/build's cancer recap is). I mention this because I'm not doing the usual "whine whine toxic PvPers" thing, and I believe the aphorism "the human capacity for villainy is balanced only by avarice and laziness" does not include the letters P V and P for a reason.

But whatever. There are three addressable problems:
  1. The righteous types, who would not tolerate people ganking questers by balling up in the quest room, are spread out across the campaigns
  2. The new players are a source of high AP ticks, literally giving existing players a financial incentive to camp locations where new players will congregate
  3. The quest rooms make it easy for people to wipe out new players as they spawn in.
On the topic of spreading out the "righteous types", and them being (therefore) less able to defend the new players, I'm not certain there is a solution to this---short of dropping people from Cyrodiil, or reserving a set number of spots for the righteous. Both of those solutions are, of course, impossible to defend ("sorry you got booted, JoeAlwaysOn wanted to play and he's more important than you"), I cannot possibly suggest any queuing mechanic changes. Nor would this actually help in the "event-only" campaigns (e.g. if you're a respectable type that normally homes in Vivec or the Dirty Sotha, why would you leave your hard-fought queue position there to go defend questers in Boethiah). Maybe there's something that could be done with PvP guilds?

Next, if it's true that "new players are a source of high-AP ticks," then clearly this is some kind of accounting gone wrong: I feel like it should never be the case that farming the bottom 100 is ever worth the time. Perhaps adding (or increasing the weighting of) time in campaign, time in Cyrodiil, time in BGs, AP earned by the victim, etc. to the mix could be beneficial? To be sure, each solution carries the risk of bad outcomes. E.g., if you're a top-10 player and you roll a new toon on your alliance, should that "zero-time-in-cyro" alt get enhanced AP, even though your main is top-10---probably not, but sharing your "time in Cyro" or "AP earned" character-wide could provide incentives to create a "boosting-only " toon that is sold to members of other campaigns.

For the last item, however, the makers already know of this issue, and have already solved it elsewhere: IC rooms with quest givers are safe zones, where no one can even drop a skill. The "transitus" zones in the towns are safe zones. Make the enclosed quest-giver spaces also be safe zones. I assume this would be a fairly substantial change (which is why it hasn't been done already), but it would eliminate spawn camping as a way to make AP.
  • frostz417
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    Cry about it. It’s a PvP zone. You either get farmed like a noob or get some thumbs. Quit crying because you keep getting slapped and grow some thumbs
  • Hippie4927
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    I don't support the griefing but Cyrodiil IS a PVP zone and this is a PVP event. If you can't take the heat, get out of the fire.
    PC/NA/EP ✌️
  • Nostrabar
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    Maybe folks should actually read more than the first paragraph before commenting.
  • Hippie4927
    Hippie4927
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    Nostrabar wrote: »
    Maybe folks should actually read more than the first paragraph before commenting.

    I did read it and I don't think ZOS should cater to PVE'ers who want to be safe anywhere in Cyrodiil. I am a PVE'er and when I go to Cyrodiil, I expect to be at risk at all times except at my home base.
    PC/NA/EP ✌️
  • Glass
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    Nostrabar wrote: »
    Maybe folks should actually read more than the first paragraph before commenting.

    The part where it says "I'm not here to whine about it" before the whining rant?
  • Gilvoth
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    they talking about nerfing pvp quest areas?

    2680868f7dd587fa3fd56f6293c53922.jpg
  • Nostrabar
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    I haven't heard a response that doesn't boil down to "I think spawn-camping is fair-play because pvp".
  • FleetwoodSmack
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    Nostrabar wrote: »
    I haven't heard a response that doesn't boil down to "I think spawn-camping is fair-play because pvp".

    I wouldn't say that. It's the fact that there are other threads where that kind of statement has derailed the thread. Even when solutions are being proposed, people still are taking some of us out of context; Repeatedly.

    The solutions to the problem are pretty simple though.
    • Making interiors, especially with quest givers have an interior wide immunity buff and then making the space around the door exiting have an immunity buff for ~15-30 seconds.
    • Making a small area around the quest giver have an immunity buff (although this could get exploited).

    Communication also goes along way as I've not generally seen anyone post or mention that they've communicated with these farmers aside to send them hate and vitriol (telling them to kill themselves, to die of brain cancer, etc). Yeah, what they're doing is wrong, but the moment you wish death and harm on someone? That's being counter-productive and just as much as problematic. People using the "It's the internet" excuse doesn't make the argument more sound. Sure asking them to stop won't make them stop, but telling them the bolded part above won't either.

    Edit; For the record Nostrabar, I'm not saying you're saying these things. I'm simply putting more evidence to the contrary that there's no communication to these farmers aside from the blatant vitriol; which only entices them to farm it further. I've gotten farmed a couple of times by these 'farmers' and I simply asked if I could have a chance to turn in a quest and I got an "lolsure'. They let me turn in the quest and left me to do what I needed to do until I needed a blood port and whacked them asking if they could kill me so I could go to the next flipped-to-my-alliance town. To think that all it took was just a little communication and they stepped aside.
    Edited by FleetwoodSmack on April 21, 2019 1:42AM
    Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies!
  • oxygen_thief
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    Nostrabar wrote: »
    For players, we know what we can do: defend the PvEers as they do their quests, and pull out the bugs when they burrow themselves in, but that's tedious, and I'd rather take a keep than kill that stupid lich for the umpteenth time to get an event box.

    better spare few coins to those poor things so they can afford to buy drops in a store.
    seriously event rewards are utter trash. why would one even bother to queue for such a rubbish?
    Edited by oxygen_thief on April 21, 2019 1:45AM
  • Nostrabar
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    Nostrabar wrote: »
    I haven't heard a response that doesn't boil down to "I think spawn-camping is fair-play because pvp".

    I wouldn't say that. It's the fact that there are other threads where that kind of statement has derailed the thread. Even when solutions are being proposed, people still are taking some of us out of context; Repeatedly.

    The solutions to the problem are pretty simple though.

    Oh sure, we're saying the same thing on that---I was referring to this thread specifically. :-)
  • TheValkyn
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    frostz417 wrote: »
    Cry about it. It’s a PvP zone. You either get farmed like a noob or get some thumbs. Quit crying because you keep getting slapped and grow some thumbs

    Don't be an ***.
  • Marcus684
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    TheValkyn wrote: »
    frostz417 wrote: »
    Cry about it. It’s a PvP zone. You either get farmed like a noob or get some thumbs. Quit crying because you keep getting slapped and grow some thumbs

    Don't be an ***.

    There’s 2 or 3 people that are just going from forum post to forum post about this, and posting the same thing. “It’s PvP” “Cry about it” etc. We get it. Toxic players support toxic behavior by other toxic players. My guess is, complaining about it in the forums actually encourages them to do it more, because they like the idea that their behavior triggers this kind of response.

    My advice is to just either avoid the campers, or wait until you get enough friendly players with you and go in and kill them. It may take a few tries, but that’s how Cyrodiil was designed. I was personally involved with doing this 3 times yesterday, and it’s very satisfying.

  • VvardeFellow
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    frostz417 wrote: »
    Cry about it. It’s a PvP zone. You either get farmed like a noob or get some thumbs. Quit crying because you keep getting slapped and grow some thumbs

    This is exactly the mindset that sits in a quest giver tiny studio. OP was well thought out, and all you can offer is ad hominen?
    Shame.
  • VvardeFellow
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    Hippie4927 wrote: »
    I don't support the griefing but Cyrodiil IS a PVP zone and this is a PVP event. If you can't take the heat, get out of the fire.

    How original. The "no matter how toxic (to use current venacular) it is, defend any and all behavior, because it's PVP, and then insult the OP by suggesting he can't take the heat. It was a serious post, and your reply is anything but serious.
  • VvardeFellow
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    Glass wrote: »
    Nostrabar wrote: »
    Maybe folks should actually read more than the first paragraph before commenting.

    The part where it says "I'm not here to whine about it" before the whining rant?

    Followed by your whining after the "alledged" whining.
  • Ozby
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    frostz417 wrote: »
    Cry about it. It’s a PvP zone. You either get farmed like a noob or get some thumbs. Quit crying because you keep getting slapped and grow some thumbs

    I take it you don't have many people who like you very much.
    PC NA
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