Buying Skyshards with crowns

DjMuscleboy02 · April 2019

RottingAlien wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

I hope they open this up to purchasing fully leveled character upgrades. If I don't want to level a character, that's my prerogative. This does not affect anyone else.

This is not P2W at all, skyshards don't affect anyone else. Start selling vMA weapons in the crown store and we'll have an issue.

Oh god please no.
And yes, it might affect someone else if we're talking pvp.

How does me getting skyshards affect a single other player? It's literally the same as mount upgrades. There are absolutely no circumstances in which buying skyshards affects another players game play.

Tan9oSuccka · April 2019

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

RottingAlien wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

I hope they open this up to purchasing fully leveled character upgrades. If I don't want to level a character, that's my prerogative. This does not affect anyone else.

This is not P2W at all, skyshards don't affect anyone else. Start selling vMA weapons in the crown store and we'll have an issue.

Oh god please no.
And yes, it might affect someone else if we're talking pvp.

How does me getting skyshards affect a single other player? It's literally the same as mount upgrades. There are absolutely no circumstances in which buying skyshards affects another players game play.

The only scenario I could see is someone who plays in Kyne.

I kind of like that everyone is on even ground and nobody has skill points.

I’d like them to tweak it where characters have to be level 50 before they can do this process.

Sheezabeast · April 2019

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

RottingAlien wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

I hope they open this up to purchasing fully leveled character upgrades. If I don't want to level a character, that's my prerogative. This does not affect anyone else.

This is not P2W at all, skyshards don't affect anyone else. Start selling vMA weapons in the crown store and we'll have an issue.

Oh god please no.
And yes, it might affect someone else if we're talking pvp.

How does me getting skyshards affect a single other player? It's literally the same as mount upgrades. There are absolutely no circumstances in which buying skyshards affects another players game play.

The only scenario I could see is someone who plays in Kyne.

I kind of like that everyone is on even ground and nobody has skill points.

I’d like them to tweak it where characters have to be level 50 before they can do this process.

I think this would be a fair stipulation

RottingAlien · April 2019

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

RottingAlien wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

I hope they open this up to purchasing fully leveled character upgrades. If I don't want to level a character, that's my prerogative. This does not affect anyone else.

This is not P2W at all, skyshards don't affect anyone else. Start selling vMA weapons in the crown store and we'll have an issue.

Oh god please no.
And yes, it might affect someone else if we're talking pvp.

How does me getting skyshards affect a single other player? It's literally the same as mount upgrades. There are absolutely no circumstances in which buying skyshards affects another players game play.

Ok i'll try. So, power levelers used to have a "problem". When you'd try to power level an alt character you would start missing out on skill points. Which is not necessarily a bad thing! It makes you spend more time customizing it, learning it, making the right choices and thinking about what you really want to do with it instead of just creating alts just for the sake of it.
Now, The example to your question may be more prominent in below 50 battlegrounds/pvp, where you can have all the skyshards in a fresh character, let's say, level 40. You can bet you will have an advantage in this situation. This is just one way how it can impact another player directly. Most examples would be PvP. In PvE, everyone is on the same team, nobody cares.

Also, just to make sure you got it right, I wouldn't mind if you could buy the skyshards achiements with gold. Or having both options like you have with so many other things. The fact that crowns will be the only method its what makes me thing about the future of these kind of things in ESO.

bharathitman · April 2019

RottingAlien wrote: »

ErMurazor wrote: »

I Love it. As a dad and full time worker i take any timesaver i can get so i have more time raiding when i actually can play

@ErMurazor What do you love if you don't mind me asking? Is it the buying with crowns part or the suggestion of buying with gold? Do you actually agree with shortcuts paid with real money or are you talking about in-game currency?

This question is so leading. You are implying that he is doing something negative by buying those skyshards with real money

RottingAlien · April 2019

bharathitman wrote: »

RottingAlien wrote: »

ErMurazor wrote: »

I Love it. As a dad and full time worker i take any timesaver i can get so i have more time raiding when i actually can play

@ErMurazor What do you love if you don't mind me asking? Is it the buying with crowns part or the suggestion of buying with gold? Do you actually agree with shortcuts paid with real money or are you talking about in-game currency?

This question is so leading. You are implying that he is doing something negative by those skyshards with real money

I'm actually curious.
My post is to try to offer a solution to something that is, in my prespective, a problem. And I wanted to know with what is he agreeing with. Its no secret I don't like that skyshards could only be bought through crowns.

me_ming · April 2019

Normalhazard wrote: »

All I hear is a bunch of broke pansies complaining about how they cant afford ***.

When idiots confuse QoL changes with a p2w model<

I have been playing for 4 years with eso+ membership. I will probably have enough crowns to purchase those skyshards if I wanted too.

What is more idiotic are people who think this is not something that will lead to a P2W. Some people are just too lazy, I guess. Such entitlement. I already did this so I should have it. NO!

bharathitman · April 2019

RottingAlien wrote: »

bharathitman wrote: »

RottingAlien wrote: »

ErMurazor wrote: »

I Love it. As a dad and full time worker i take any timesaver i can get so i have more time raiding when i actually can play

@ErMurazor What do you love if you don't mind me asking? Is it the buying with crowns part or the suggestion of buying with gold? Do you actually agree with shortcuts paid with real money or are you talking about in-game currency?

This question is so leading. You are implying that he is doing something negative by those skyshards with real money

I'm actually curious.
My post is to try to offer a solution to something that is, in my prespective, a problem. And I wanted to know with what is he agreeing with. Its no secret I don't like that skyshards could only be bought through crowns.

You might personally dislike it, but companies always look out for alternative revenue streams. As consumers we hope that our current way of playing the game does not change when a company introduces additional products to boost their revenue.

In this particular caase nothing is changing, you can still go out and get those skyshards the old fashioned way. Keep in mind that the success of this will mostly depend on how they price it, if it's as expensive as 1000 crowns per large zone then I am better off spending those 20 mins gathering skyshards in that particular zone.

The right pricing would be 50 crowns for a small zone (Bal Foyen), to around 150 to 200 crowns for a large zone.

Tandor · April 2019

HanzeeBokeem wrote: »

This is an issue that will never be easily solved, impossible to keep everyone happy. The simplified version is that there are 2 types of gamer. Those with plenty of time but little money and those with little time but money. It's a difficult balancing act that no company has yet found an ideal solution for.

I'm not convinced it's an argument about how much time or money players have, there's a common misconception for example that those who want to play the game fully on all their characters have more time than those who don't. Actually it's more to do with whether they are here for the journey or only the destination, and how long they want to spend on the journey. Those who want to play the game fully don't necessarily have more time for gaming, it's just that they're more relaxed about how long these things take than those who want to level from 1-50 at a dolmen in a couple of days and then get all their skills unlocked immediately after that

The only way to keep most people happy is by having a compromise along the lines that ZOS originally implemented, with some things being account-wide and other things being character-specific. Unfortunately the ones arguing for everything to be account-wide have been heard loud and clear by ZOS who have recognised the revenue-raising opportunities presented in such a switch, and as was predicted often enough the solution presented isn't on their account page, it's in the crown store.

Bosov · April 2019

I dont get why you people (the p2w screamers that is) want me to get on my slow horse and go through all the zones on every char i make. Ive done it on one char so why should i do something boring to get to the fun part. Why do you want me to waste my time collecting those skyshards?

I play eso for fun... fun is pvp with a good character. I dont play eso to build a character and play horse riding simulator.

If you want to collect it all yourself.. go ahead, it doesnt change the game or experience for you if i dont collect the same skyshards over and over again.

Bosov · April 2019

RottingAlien wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Sometimes I think I’m the only person left who likes the xp from discovering wayshrines....I’ve had lowbies level so many times while discovering shrines....it’s nice xp and makes your map feel complete, it’s satisfying....

Agree 100%

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

I hope they open this up to purchasing fully leveled character upgrades. If I don't want to level a character, that's my prerogative. This does not affect anyone else.

This is not P2W at all, skyshards don't affect anyone else. Start selling vMA weapons in the crown store and we'll have an issue.

Oh god please no.
And yes, it might affect someone else if we're talking pvp.

How even? Most people wont go into pvp without enough skillpoints.. the only difference is that i will be able to pvp a few hours earlier if i dont have to collect skyshards.

Soundwave · April 2019

Soundwave wrote: »

Zos should implement achievement tokens that are used to purchases achievements from other characters.

Guess some times the dev do listen. Even though i dont play anymore.

RottingAlien · April 2019

Bosov wrote: »

I dont get why you people (the p2w screamers that is) want me to get on my slow horse and go through all the zones on every char i make.

I'm not saying they should not implement the skyshard achievement mechanic.. I'm saying that you should be able to buy it at a shrine or something in-game and not be limited to crowns.

Bosov wrote: »

How even? Most people wont go into pvp without enough skillpoints.. the only difference is that i will be able to pvp a few hours earlier if i dont have to collect skyshards.

Well, i go to BGs/Pvp as soon as i can! BGs are a great way to level up an alt.
And you kind of answered yourself, you will be able to pvp a few hours earlier if you dont have to collect skyshards.

But hey, most importantly, again, I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to buy the shards. I might not fully agree but I wouldn't care, IF people would be able to buy them too with gold. 2 options instead of one. Simple

RazielSR · April 2019

Its not p2w and is quite ignorant to think it is. You even have a requirement to buy them.

I HOPE THEY WILL ADD GUILD SKILLS LINES SOON WITH A REQUIREMENT!!

RottingAlien · April 2019

I swear it looks like some people don't even try to read the post before comenting. Gosh

RazielSR · April 2019

Later in the topic the "this is p2w" appears so...and the "fear" of this making real p2w things to appear in crown store is nonsense because they will add guild skill lines if you alraady have them with other char. It will work the same and will not be p2w either.

Facefister · April 2019

Kombinator wrote: »

Soul19reaper wrote: »

No this shouldve been free like champion points and not crowns store.

Of course.

Everything should be free.

You should be able to import your character level, and completed quests upon creating new character. Also you should gain a copy of all non-tradeable gear between characters. Also any non-class skills should be learned in an instant on appropiate levels.

We should also be able to have every non-cosmetic items for free. Such as xp scrolls, and potions/food.

Even the game should be entirely free. The servers run on magic anyway, and that's free.

It's a step toward the pay to win, but not a big one. Most of us won't even notice the difference.

Also you still need to level up the skills themselves.

ESO is a B2P game filled with DLCs, also an optional ESO+. You can be damn sure that I want a QoL thing to be free. Better yet, make it free for ESO+ members.

RottingAlien · April 2019

RazielSR wrote: »

Its not p2w and is quite ignorant to think it is. You even have a requirement to buy them.

I HOPE THEY WILL ADD GUILD SKILLS LINES SOON WITH A REQUIREMENT!!

RazielSR wrote: »

Later in the topic the "this is p2w" appears so...and the "fear" of this making real p2w things to appear in crown store is nonsense because they will add guild skill lines if you alraady have them with other char. It will work the same and will not be p2w either.

I really hope that ZOS doesn't go down that road. That will be a bullet in the head for eso.
But, let me see if I get this right.
"Buy shortcut for Skyshards! yay!"
"Buy shortcut for Psijic Skill line! yay!"
"Buy shortcut for Mages guild Skill line! yay!"
"Buy shortcut for fighters guild Skill line! yay!"

By this point you barely touched your new alt and you have many skill points to spend and unlocked skill lines. Don't you find that weird at all? Why not buy your alt the level 50 too?
And what will you be playing if you buy it all? End game content? what for if you didn't learn anything and just bought everything? To be carried by some guild in trials and vet content? to be a zergling in PvP? To do this all in 1 month and then be like "game sucks there's nothing to do."?
I seriously don't understand this kind of thought. it's so lazy and a terribly bad habit.

ATomiX96 · April 2019

pay for convenience, and any kind of shortcuts is a part of p2w, so no thanks, either give us an option to dump gold on it or remove it.

Facefister · April 2019

RottingAlien wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

Its not p2w and is quite ignorant to think it is. You even have a requirement to buy them.

I HOPE THEY WILL ADD GUILD SKILLS LINES SOON WITH A REQUIREMENT!!

RazielSR wrote: »

Later in the topic the "this is p2w" appears so...and the "fear" of this making real p2w things to appear in crown store is nonsense because they will add guild skill lines if you alraady have them with other char. It will work the same and will not be p2w either.

I really hope that ZOS doesn't go down that road. That will be a bullet in the head for eso.
But, let me see if I get this right.
"Buy shortcut for Skyshards! yay!"
"Buy shortcut for Psijic Skill line! yay!"
"Buy shortcut for Mages guild Skill line! yay!"
"Buy shortcut for fighters guild Skill line! yay!"

By this point you barely touched your new alt and you have many skill points to spend and unlocked skill lines. Don't you find that weird at all? Why not buy your alt the level 50 too?
And what will you be playing if you buy it all? End game content? what for if you didn't learn anything and just bought everything? To be carried by some guild in trials and vet content? to be a zergling in PvP? To do this all in 1 month and then be like "game sucks there's nothing to do."?
I seriously don't understand this kind of thought. it's so lazy and a terribly bad habit.

But think about the people who can only play 1 hour per week! Jokes aside, people want to spend so much money on skipping stuff because they can't play that they totally forget that they could buy 3 or 4 single-player games which are way better than ESO itself.

Starlock · April 2019

RottingAlien wrote: »

TLDR; Being able to buy skyshards with crowns only, can open the precedent to future bought "shortcuts". If this is to be implemented, at least players should be able to buy the skyshards with Gold also. Like when using the shrine of Srendarr or Stuhn.

What are your thoughts on this?

This absolutely needs to happen.

This game has had pay-to-win microtransactions for quite some time, but this move in particular crosses some lines that were not crossed before. As far as I'm concerned, once this line is crossed there is no logical reason why Zenimax should not offer maxed skill lines, maxed characters, DLC dungeon gear, and other so-called "convenience" purchases for cash. And to have these assets unavailable outside of the cash shop is not okay. I'm sure that the cost for these is going to be outrageous like everything else in the cash shop is, which makes it doubly not okay.

I continue to be a dedicated supporter of this game because the real heroes at Zenimax - the folks who develop the story, lore, worldspaces, and art for this game - continue to deliver top notch material. Normally I refuse to even touch games with monetization models as blatantly unethical as what Zenimax does. This game is the one and only exception I make to this. It becomes more and more difficult to look the other way, however. The increase in crown gem exclusive items, that demand consumers waste hundreds of dollars on gamble boxes? The ridiculous cost of outfit slots that aren't even account-wide? No cooldown research scrolls to become a crafting master? And now cash shop only skyshard unlocks?

Just... stop.

RazielSR · April 2019

RottingAlien wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

Its not p2w and is quite ignorant to think it is. You even have a requirement to buy them.

I HOPE THEY WILL ADD GUILD SKILLS LINES SOON WITH A REQUIREMENT!!

RazielSR wrote: »

Later in the topic the "this is p2w" appears so...and the "fear" of this making real p2w things to appear in crown store is nonsense because they will add guild skill lines if you alraady have them with other char. It will work the same and will not be p2w either.

I really hope that ZOS doesn't go down that road. That will be a bullet in the head for eso.
But, let me see if I get this right.
"Buy shortcut for Skyshards! yay!"
"Buy shortcut for Psijic Skill line! yay!"
"Buy shortcut for Mages guild Skill line! yay!"
"Buy shortcut for fighters guild Skill line! yay!"

By this point you barely touched your new alt and you have many skill points to spend and unlocked skill lines. Don't you find that weird at all? Why not buy your alt the level 50 too?
And what will you be playing if you buy it all? End game content? what for if you didn't learn anything and just bought everything? To be carried by some guild in trials and vet content? to be a zergling in PvP? To do this all in 1 month and then be like "game sucks there's nothing to do."?
I seriously don't understand this kind of thought. it's so lazy and a terribly bad habit.

Dude...you know...for some people is MAD to do the same over and over again for every char. It kills the fun and stops the diversity.

Tell me who is gonna get better by buying this? Who is gonna have an advantage?? If people wants to do it again and again...just do it and let the others pay. If you are a bad player,you are gonna be a bad player even buying skyshards or skill lines. If you are good,nothing will change. Just less stupid time sink.

Now if you tell me there will be a whole skill line in the crown store that you can't have ingame or that you dont need any requirement first....then that would be a different story.

But this? Cmon...

dcam86b14_ESO · April 2019

Love this idea, keep them coming.

Oliviander · April 2019

The real isssue are not things you can buy with crowns
but the things you only can buy for crown gems
or even worse not even with them but only with reeeeal LUCKY crown crates.

TheShadowScout · April 2019

RottingAlien wrote: »

So, most of you know by now that there will be something called "Skyshard Achievements for Alternate Characters", where if you unlock "a Skyshard Hunter" Achievement, you can unlock those skyshards in an alt character using the crown store...
...But the fact that people can only get these with crowns worries me about the future of ESO.

Then rest assuded, people can get these without crowns too.
By going there, and picking up the darn skyshard!
As The Developers Originally Intended!!!

RottingAlien wrote: »

The problem is not this isolated SkyShard thing but if it will start happening with other stuff too.

You mean... like XP boost stuff, crafting research timer stuff, and riding training stuff?

Personally I have no issues with "pay for shortcut", as long it is not cheap. And I am on record saying this in many one of the old "gimme acount wide stuff!!" discussions here, that IF they gave anything like that, it would come at a price (in crowns). Now... it is happening -just- like that.
And I am like...

And yet, people -still- whine "gimme dat for free, gimme dat for just a trifle of in-game gold..."

Yeah, well, if you want it cheap, spend the time and grab all the shards like you did on your main.
If you want it fast, and have more money then patience, spend the darn crowns.

After all, why should they give out something they -sell- to make a profit for free?
Not gonna happen. Best you can hope for is to catch it at a reduced price someday when they have an bargain sale or whatever...

I know I won't be buying that one, but instead grab them one by one with my alts, while wasting my crowns on costumes and outfit bits for the -true- endgame... character dressup!

RottingAlien · April 2019

TheShadowScout wrote: »

RottingAlien wrote: »

So, most of you know by now that there will be something called "Skyshard Achievements for Alternate Characters", where if you unlock "a Skyshard Hunter" Achievement, you can unlock those skyshards in an alt character using the crown store...
...But the fact that people can only get these with crowns worries me about the future of ESO.

Then rest assuded, people can get these without crowns too.
By going there, and picking up the darn skyshard!
As The Developers Originally Intended!!!

I fully understand what you are saying, I'm actually surprised you were the first person pointing that out, but I was referring to as a "Bulk" and not individually. The only way to unlock Bulk Skyshards will be with crowns.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

RottingAlien wrote: »

The problem is not this isolated SkyShard thing but if it will start happening with other stuff too.

You mean... like XP boost stuff, crafting research timer stuff, and riding training stuff?

I mean, like someone was saying, being able to buy guild skill lines.
The examples you said all have their "free" versions.
XP Scrolls you don't even need to buy.. They give you plenty in the daily rewards. You also have the Psijic Ambrosias.
Research Time reduction you can use writs.
Ride training you get it for 250g per day.
More examples:
Reseting skill points, sure, you can buy it on the crown store.. but can also go to the shrine of Stuhn
Reseting Atributes, yep! Crown store covers you.. But you also have the Shrine of Srendarr.

You see the pattern i'm speaking of?
And now along comes a non-consmetic "thing" that doesn't have the in-game version. This is the problem

And yes @TheShadowScout , Crowns are too precious for the fashion scrolls online, the one and only true endgame

Oreyn_Bearclaw · April 2019

RazielSR wrote: »

Its not p2w and is quite ignorant to think it is. You even have a requirement to buy them.

I HOPE THEY WILL ADD GUILD SKILLS LINES SOON WITH A REQUIREMENT!!

I love how people think they are the authority on what is and what is not pay to win. For some people the only thing that would cross that line would be a weapon or item that is more powerful than what is available in game, and that item is only available for cash. While that example is clear as day, it's ignorant (to use your words), to assume that other things dont make it on the p2w spectrum. Anytime you get anything in a game like this for cash that is not purely aesthetic is arguably p2w at least to some degree.

The biggest issue we have with this whole debate is, what the hell does winning mean in this game? The answer of course is that it is different for everyone. I feel like I wrote something similiar in another thread, but lets looks at some hypotheticals.

1. If you believe that the main goal of this game is to accumulate wealth, or crafting plans, or having the biggest baddest house, this game is as pay 2 win as it gets. The conversion of cash to gold in this game is trivial, and essentially everything above can be achieved with gold. This is not how I play, but there is a significant chunck of the playerbase that does.

2. Lets say your definition of winning is amassing achievement points? Well again, this game is certainly pay 2 win. Some achievements can be bought directly with crowns (cough). Others can be bought with gold (trial carries, etc.). Take my situtation for example. I dont really care about achievement points, but lets say that all of a sudden I did. Well, my main trial toon (arguably the hardest achievements to get solo), are on my sorc, but my crafter is a NB, and my main quester is a DK. If i decided to go all in to boost my achievment point total on any given toon, the ability to buy skyshards is helping me down that path.

3. Lets so you are all about worlds firsts. Well, lets say necro really is the OP class that it appears to be on PTS, and the meta raid group involves having 8-10 of them. Then lets say a group like Hodor (just using an example, not calling anyone out), decides that on patch day they are all going to buy skyshards and power grind their toons, and they beat out another group that did it the old fashioned way. Did they win? Yep. Did they pay? Yep.

Or lets say you want to be the world first Necro emp or GO. Buying skyshards could certainly give you a leg up on that, and buying skill lines as you suggested would be even further down that path.

I could go on, but I wont. I will fully concede that ZOS has done a pretty good job with keeping blatant p2w out of the game. That said, it is not by any means inappropriate to discuss some of the grey areas like buying skyshards in the context of a P2W discussion. And certainly, it is not ignorant to do so. Anything sold for cash that is not purely cosmetic should get a hard look. And since they fully endorse converting cash to gold, a lot of things fall into that category.

SRTtoZ · April 2019

I don't think its pay to win because you had to have already collected them on a different character so you already put in the work. That being said I don't like how they just didn't make them account wide. They should have made them account wide AND then sold a pack that lets you see the skyshards/lorebooks on the map like the addon. That way new players can see where they are but they still have to pay and can run around doing the work, and vets would be happy because everything they collected is account wide.

Edit: Or include the skyshard/lorebook map in ESO+

I hate giving them ideas on how to sell more stuff but these are QoL features that I really need in my life.

RottingAlien · April 2019

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Did they win? Yep. Did they pay? Yep.

I see what you did there and I love it

Krec · April 2019

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

RottingAlien wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

I hope they open this up to purchasing fully leveled character upgrades. If I don't want to level a character, that's my prerogative. This does not affect anyone else.

This is not P2W at all, skyshards don't affect anyone else. Start selling vMA weapons in the crown store and we'll have an issue.

Oh god please no.
And yes, it might affect someone else if we're talking pvp.

How does me getting skyshards affect a single other player? It's literally the same as mount upgrades. There are absolutely no circumstances in which buying skyshards affects another players game play.

Shards will have an impact in under lvl 50 pvp, as there is associated exp gain with gaining those shards which will be absent when buying from Crown Store. That exp avoided will allow those players who buy shards to stay longer and eventually dominate due to an imbalance in the number of skills and passives available. Usually, as a low level toon you don't have all the shards you want or need so you may have to make a choice as to what skills you choose. Under the new system no choice or trade off is needed. Horse skills have a more noticeable impact as the horse stam prevents dismounts and max speed benefit is rather obvious.

I don't support this idea and have 15 toons, of which only one has all shards. More concerned with the impact on zone pops as folks will not roaming zones for shards. Also, as others have mentioned this may be the beginning of more micro transactions (major concern). If so, then I have no problems with everything being available in Crown Store, including vma weapons.