dazee wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

I just got another character the Flawless Conqueror title. Afterwards, decided to whoop up on a dummy in the exact setup. Hit a whopping 26k DPS.

Not a pet Sorc. Not a WW. Not some cheese build.

This character is a flawless conqueror and I can’t get into a trial group with it.

the sad thing is 26k dps is ENOUGH For most trials! even vet trials! but people in ESO are just stupid and can't deal with mechanics so they insist on burning through them all.

I know I like to run relay races with teammates who have additional weights strapped to their legs.

And in vet trials mechanics are rarely burned through, though there are some examples where it can be done.

Well, same as in the real world ... if another person can do it, and you can't... neither the world nor he/she is at fault for it

Here, take a gif, adapt, overcome:


edit:
If you can't git gud ingame, don't worry, it's just a game and personal fun has nothing to do with min/maxing

starkerealm wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

As a tank, there is no reason for me to get on a 300k group parse squad when i can get on a 500k group parse squad (assuming trial schedule is same).

Form trial tram is not group finder. Tanks has more power to choose. 26k is barely above average, it’s hard to find tanks who can do vmol want to suck up with it.

Well, that's a lovely attitude. "Why bother tanking for progression groups, when you can just run time trial teams?"

Well yeah exactly, can you find a reason for why a tank should choose the worse team?

Is there a TLDR for those of us who don’t want to waste our life listening to filler? 5 min in and he still has’t said anything useful.

Get to the point already.

Linaleah wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

And this is why I don't play DPS, I'm not willing to treat a video game like a IRL job.

30 minutes to an hour is all it takes to go from being a crappy dps to doing 40k+ on a dummy. Read a rotation guide, watch a youtube video, and put it to practice a few times on a dummy until you do it right. If you're fine with mediocrity, your loss, but keep in mind that you're only 30-60 minutes away from being good at the game.

no. it does not take 30 minutes to an hout. it may take 30 minutes to an hour to go through those videos and guides alone. and then its hours and hours of practice and even THEN. you may never get good enough depending on personal circumstances.

this game is simultaneously extremely forgiving when it comes to story content AND brutally unforgiving when it comes to group one. because of the way the combat in this game is set up and because developers basically gave up on every trying to fix in and instead are exacerbating issues with it? the skill gap will only continue to grow. high end players will continue to complain that everything is STILL too easy, while everyone else will keep getting left further and further behind.

and no, the game on a basic level should NOT require hours and hours of practice just to be able to get anywhere near getting through the content.

the real truth about dps in this game is that its broken.

Well, at least you are right about being a dirty worthless casual.

starkerealm wrote: »

Joker99 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

As a tank, there is no reason for me to get on a 300k group parse squad when i can get on a 500k group parse squad (assuming trial schedule is same).

Form trial tram is not group finder. Tanks has more power to choose. 26k is barely above average, it’s hard to find tanks who can do vmol want to suck up with it.

Well, that's a lovely attitude. "Why bother tanking for progression groups, when you can just run time trial teams?"

Well yeah exactly, can you find a reason for why a tank should choose the worse team?

Unsatisfied with that? Because I do have more coherant answers, now that I'm running on 3 hours of sleep.

There are a lot of reasons to pass on a, "500k DPS" group, when their background is parsing. Here are a few:

• The Healer is only faguly sentient, but keeps their position due to their relationship with the raid's leadership.
• The DPS doesn't understand not to stand in stupid.
• The DPS shares curses.
• The DPS can't wrap their minds around The Twins. (In fairness, this isn't a kiss of death, but if they're still having issues with colors, or running across the room after a couple hours, that becomes a problem.)
• The DPS won't bash Skinrai when he jesus beams the tank.
• The DPS doesn't understand the concept of bashing.
• The DPS argues that bashing is the tank's job.
• The DPS doesn't understand the concept of placement on Vashai, and puts negates all over the place.
• The DPS cross the candles incorrectly.
• The DPS do not cross the candles when their aspect changes.
• The DPS doesn't understand running, and will argue that they can do a first pad burn, while standing in stupid.
• The DPS's reported damage is based on parse cheese, and they have less than 12k max health.
• The DPS doesn't understand bashing the Yokeda Kai projections.
• The DPS insist on trying to cheese past Yokeda Kai because, "they know," you can do that, and delibrately wipe.
• The DPS's reported damage is based on sets that prohibit movement, such as Siroria.
• The DPS refuse to bar swap on Rele, and blame the healer.
• The DPS continue to parse on St. Olms while a sphere is up.
• The DPS pull crushing darkness into the group.
• The DPS stack during Starfall.
• The DPS stack during Storm of the Heavens.
• The DPS steal pads on Rakhat or Zhaj'hassa. (I wish I was joking about this.)
• The DPS repeatedly says, "boobies," on comms while giggling, instead of listening to the explanation for Assembly General.
• The DPS tries to parse on Assembly General in the middle of the room, after ignoring explanations, and repeatedly saying, "boobies," on comms while giggling, while ignoring the explanation.
• The DPS shares poison.
• The DPS shares poison while making jokes on comms and ignoring the trial lead.
• The DPS dies from poison.
• The DPS stands in popcorn and dies.
• The DPS stacks on the Stone Attro.
• The DPS stands in front of the mage, and shares chain lightning with the group.
• The DPS won't change any slotted skills, even when necessary, because it's, "not part of their build."
• The DPS panics when targeted by St. Llothis, and drags the cone through the group.
• The DPS doesn't udnerstand bashing St. Llothis.

Mercifully, there's one or two on that list I haven't seen personally.

Endgame DPS isn't about your parse. Yes, parsing on a dummy can help you get your rotation down, but it's a far cry from being endgame ready. However, there are many players who look at their dummy DPS, hold it up, and genuinely believe it's the only metric they need to be judged by.

300k DPS means that the DPS are pulling somewhere around 30-35k. That is more than sufficient for any content in the game. At that point, as a tank, if you're fishing for a number higher than that, you're just looking for a carry.

Sorry to break it to you this way but these things are much more present in lower end groups, and what the hell does the healer have to do with it, is it like “Hey you reached 500k group dps, here’s a bad healer to go along with it”

I’m sorry but you don’t make any sense at all.

mairwen85 wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Joker99 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

As a tank, there is no reason for me to get on a 300k group parse squad when i can get on a 500k group parse squad (assuming trial schedule is same).

Form trial tram is not group finder. Tanks has more power to choose. 26k is barely above average, it’s hard to find tanks who can do vmol want to suck up with it.

Well, that's a lovely attitude. "Why bother tanking for progression groups, when you can just run time trial teams?"

Well yeah exactly, can you find a reason for why a tank should choose the worse team?

Unsatisfied with that? Because I do have more coherant answers, now that I'm running on 3 hours of sleep.

There are a lot of reasons to pass on a, "500k DPS" group, when their background is parsing. Here are a few:

• The Healer is only faguly sentient, but keeps their position due to their relationship with the raid's leadership.
• The DPS doesn't understand not to stand in stupid.
• The DPS shares curses.
• The DPS can't wrap their minds around The Twins. (In fairness, this isn't a kiss of death, but if they're still having issues with colors, or running across the room after a couple hours, that becomes a problem.)
• The DPS won't bash Skinrai when he jesus beams the tank.
• The DPS doesn't understand the concept of bashing.
• The DPS argues that bashing is the tank's job.
• The DPS doesn't understand the concept of placement on Vashai, and puts negates all over the place.
• The DPS cross the candles incorrectly.
• The DPS do not cross the candles when their aspect changes.
• The DPS doesn't understand running, and will argue that they can do a first pad burn, while standing in stupid.
• The DPS's reported damage is based on parse cheese, and they have less than 12k max health.
• The DPS doesn't understand bashing the Yokeda Kai projections.
• The DPS insist on trying to cheese past Yokeda Kai because, "they know," you can do that, and delibrately wipe.
• The DPS's reported damage is based on sets that prohibit movement, such as Siroria.
• The DPS refuse to bar swap on Rele, and blame the healer.
• The DPS continue to parse on St. Olms while a sphere is up.
• The DPS pull crushing darkness into the group.
• The DPS stack during Starfall.
• The DPS stack during Storm of the Heavens.
• The DPS steal pads on Rakhat or Zhaj'hassa. (I wish I was joking about this.)
• The DPS repeatedly says, "boobies," on comms while giggling, instead of listening to the explanation for Assembly General.
• The DPS tries to parse on Assembly General in the middle of the room, after ignoring explanations, and repeatedly saying, "boobies," on comms while giggling, while ignoring the explanation.
• The DPS shares poison.
• The DPS shares poison while making jokes on comms and ignoring the trial lead.
• The DPS dies from poison.
• The DPS stands in popcorn and dies.
• The DPS stacks on the Stone Attro.
• The DPS stands in front of the mage, and shares chain lightning with the group.
• The DPS won't change any slotted skills, even when necessary, because it's, "not part of their build."
• The DPS panics when targeted by St. Llothis, and drags the cone through the group.
• The DPS doesn't udnerstand bashing St. Llothis.

Mercifully, there's one or two on that list I haven't seen personally.

Endgame DPS isn't about your parse. Yes, parsing on a dummy can help you get your rotation down, but it's a far cry from being endgame ready. However, there are many players who look at their dummy DPS, hold it up, and genuinely believe it's the only metric they need to be judged by.

300k DPS means that the DPS are pulling somewhere around 30-35k. That is more than sufficient for any content in the game. At that point, as a tank, if you're fishing for a number higher than that, you're just looking for a carry.

Lol in your examples the dps are all dead and so not doing 500k.

That's the point they were making... the 500K is presumed based on dummy parses, but not necessarily the practical reality.

There’s a silly notion that low dpsers die less often than high dpsers. I guarantee that 99% of groups who do 500k on a dummy will outdo, in real content, groups that do 300k. People aren’t spending hours on dummies just to get into trial groups, but to actually finish the trials. There will always be exceptions of course.

Joker99 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Joker99 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

As a tank, there is no reason for me to get on a 300k group parse squad when i can get on a 500k group parse squad (assuming trial schedule is same).

Form trial tram is not group finder. Tanks has more power to choose. 26k is barely above average, it’s hard to find tanks who can do vmol want to suck up with it.

Well, that's a lovely attitude. "Why bother tanking for progression groups, when you can just run time trial teams?"

Well yeah exactly, can you find a reason for why a tank should choose the worse team?

Unsatisfied with that? Because I do have more coherant answers, now that I'm running on 3 hours of sleep.

There are a lot of reasons to pass on a, "500k DPS" group, when their background is parsing. Here are a few:

• The Healer is only faguly sentient, but keeps their position due to their relationship with the raid's leadership.
• The DPS doesn't understand not to stand in stupid.
• The DPS shares curses.
• The DPS can't wrap their minds around The Twins. (In fairness, this isn't a kiss of death, but if they're still having issues with colors, or running across the room after a couple hours, that becomes a problem.)
• The DPS won't bash Skinrai when he jesus beams the tank.
• The DPS doesn't understand the concept of bashing.
• The DPS argues that bashing is the tank's job.
• The DPS doesn't understand the concept of placement on Vashai, and puts negates all over the place.
• The DPS cross the candles incorrectly.
• The DPS do not cross the candles when their aspect changes.
• The DPS doesn't understand running, and will argue that they can do a first pad burn, while standing in stupid.
• The DPS's reported damage is based on parse cheese, and they have less than 12k max health.
• The DPS doesn't understand bashing the Yokeda Kai projections.
• The DPS insist on trying to cheese past Yokeda Kai because, "they know," you can do that, and delibrately wipe.
• The DPS's reported damage is based on sets that prohibit movement, such as Siroria.
• The DPS refuse to bar swap on Rele, and blame the healer.
• The DPS continue to parse on St. Olms while a sphere is up.
• The DPS pull crushing darkness into the group.
• The DPS stack during Starfall.
• The DPS stack during Storm of the Heavens.
• The DPS steal pads on Rakhat or Zhaj'hassa. (I wish I was joking about this.)
• The DPS repeatedly says, "boobies," on comms while giggling, instead of listening to the explanation for Assembly General.
• The DPS tries to parse on Assembly General in the middle of the room, after ignoring explanations, and repeatedly saying, "boobies," on comms while giggling, while ignoring the explanation.
• The DPS shares poison.
• The DPS shares poison while making jokes on comms and ignoring the trial lead.
• The DPS dies from poison.
• The DPS stands in popcorn and dies.
• The DPS stacks on the Stone Attro.
• The DPS stands in front of the mage, and shares chain lightning with the group.
• The DPS won't change any slotted skills, even when necessary, because it's, "not part of their build."
• The DPS panics when targeted by St. Llothis, and drags the cone through the group.
• The DPS doesn't udnerstand bashing St. Llothis.

Mercifully, there's one or two on that list I haven't seen personally.

Endgame DPS isn't about your parse. Yes, parsing on a dummy can help you get your rotation down, but it's a far cry from being endgame ready. However, there are many players who look at their dummy DPS, hold it up, and genuinely believe it's the only metric they need to be judged by.

300k DPS means that the DPS are pulling somewhere around 30-35k. That is more than sufficient for any content in the game. At that point, as a tank, if you're fishing for a number higher than that, you're just looking for a carry.

Sorry to break it to you this way but these things are much more present in lower end groups, and what the hell does the healer have to do with it, is it like “Hey you reached 500k group dps, here’s a bad healer to go along with it”

I’m sorry but you don’t make any sense at all.

In my experience they tend to pop up pretty reliably accross the board. I'll grant you in the sub-10k category, these do get more common.

But right now? Parse DPS is not a reliable indicator of performance in content. It never really has been. You can hope that along with good DPS comes basic system knowledge, but almost as often as not, it doesn't. It's kinda like looking at CP and saying, "well, they have high CP, so they must be good." It's not really true, you just hope it is.

A lot of people see the obession with DPS numbers, and mistake that for the only metric they need to work on. Then, they do what you tell them, they get on a dummy, and they practice their rotation in a static environment until it's smooth enough to perform. The problem comes in when they can't take that and apply it to live. They stand in stupid and die, because dummies don't have outgoing DPS, and then, blame the healer or the tank. I've seen that behavior a few too many times.

dazee wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

I just got another character the Flawless Conqueror title. Afterwards, decided to whoop up on a dummy in the exact setup. Hit a whopping 26k DPS.

Not a pet Sorc. Not a WW. Not some cheese build.

This character is a flawless conqueror and I can’t get into a trial group with it.

the sad thing is 26k dps is ENOUGH For most trials! even vet trials! but people in ESO are just stupid and can't deal with mechanics so they insist on burning through them all.

So mad, I love it. Still can't get more than 20k dps? It is not even hard to deal 30k+ dps only, it is not hard to only play mechanics, doing both at the same time is the key to success.

Rake wrote: »

anything below 30k is laziness
anything above 40k is ok

And those sitting in the middle (30-40K in irl not dummy), with half lazy* rotations and no min maxing gear, are what? Adequate?

Thank you then. I am going to put a new title on my DDs. "Adequate"


*Lazy = no power pot spamming, not bothering about 3rd party buffs, not using trap beast and if endless hail/caltrops runs over or short by 0.5 seconds doesn't matter

starkerealm wrote: »

Joker99 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Joker99 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

LeagueTroll wrote: »

As a tank, there is no reason for me to get on a 300k group parse squad when i can get on a 500k group parse squad (assuming trial schedule is same).

Form trial tram is not group finder. Tanks has more power to choose. 26k is barely above average, it’s hard to find tanks who can do vmol want to suck up with it.

Well, that's a lovely attitude. "Why bother tanking for progression groups, when you can just run time trial teams?"

Well yeah exactly, can you find a reason for why a tank should choose the worse team?

Unsatisfied with that? Because I do have more coherant answers, now that I'm running on 3 hours of sleep.

There are a lot of reasons to pass on a, "500k DPS" group, when their background is parsing. Here are a few:

• The Healer is only faguly sentient, but keeps their position due to their relationship with the raid's leadership.
• The DPS doesn't understand not to stand in stupid.
• The DPS shares curses.
• The DPS can't wrap their minds around The Twins. (In fairness, this isn't a kiss of death, but if they're still having issues with colors, or running across the room after a couple hours, that becomes a problem.)
• The DPS won't bash Skinrai when he jesus beams the tank.
• The DPS doesn't understand the concept of bashing.
• The DPS argues that bashing is the tank's job.
• The DPS doesn't understand the concept of placement on Vashai, and puts negates all over the place.
• The DPS cross the candles incorrectly.
• The DPS do not cross the candles when their aspect changes.
• The DPS doesn't understand running, and will argue that they can do a first pad burn, while standing in stupid.
• The DPS's reported damage is based on parse cheese, and they have less than 12k max health.
• The DPS doesn't understand bashing the Yokeda Kai projections.
• The DPS insist on trying to cheese past Yokeda Kai because, "they know," you can do that, and delibrately wipe.
• The DPS's reported damage is based on sets that prohibit movement, such as Siroria.
• The DPS refuse to bar swap on Rele, and blame the healer.
• The DPS continue to parse on St. Olms while a sphere is up.
• The DPS pull crushing darkness into the group.
• The DPS stack during Starfall.
• The DPS stack during Storm of the Heavens.
• The DPS steal pads on Rakhat or Zhaj'hassa. (I wish I was joking about this.)
• The DPS repeatedly says, "boobies," on comms while giggling, instead of listening to the explanation for Assembly General.
• The DPS tries to parse on Assembly General in the middle of the room, after ignoring explanations, and repeatedly saying, "boobies," on comms while giggling, while ignoring the explanation.
• The DPS shares poison.
• The DPS shares poison while making jokes on comms and ignoring the trial lead.
• The DPS dies from poison.
• The DPS stands in popcorn and dies.
• The DPS stacks on the Stone Attro.
• The DPS stands in front of the mage, and shares chain lightning with the group.
• The DPS won't change any slotted skills, even when necessary, because it's, "not part of their build."
• The DPS panics when targeted by St. Llothis, and drags the cone through the group.
• The DPS doesn't udnerstand bashing St. Llothis.

Mercifully, there's one or two on that list I haven't seen personally.

Endgame DPS isn't about your parse. Yes, parsing on a dummy can help you get your rotation down, but it's a far cry from being endgame ready. However, there are many players who look at their dummy DPS, hold it up, and genuinely believe it's the only metric they need to be judged by.

300k DPS means that the DPS are pulling somewhere around 30-35k. That is more than sufficient for any content in the game. At that point, as a tank, if you're fishing for a number higher than that, you're just looking for a carry.

Sorry to break it to you this way but these things are much more present in lower end groups, and what the hell does the healer have to do with it, is it like “Hey you reached 500k group dps, here’s a bad healer to go along with it”

I’m sorry but you don’t make any sense at all.

In my experience they tend to pop up pretty reliably accross the board. I'll grant you in the sub-10k category, these do get more common.

But right now? Parse DPS is not a reliable indicator of performance in content. It never really has been. You can hope that along with good DPS comes basic system knowledge, but almost as often as not, it doesn't. It's kinda like looking at CP and saying, "well, they have high CP, so they must be good." It's not really true, you just hope it is.

A lot of people see the obession with DPS numbers, and mistake that for the only metric they need to work on. Then, they do what you tell them, they get on a dummy, and they practice their rotation in a static environment until it's smooth enough to perform. The problem comes in when they can't take that and apply it to live. They stand in stupid and die, because dummies don't have outgoing DPS, and then, blame the healer or the tank. I've seen that behavior a few too many times.

I agree that dummy DPS is not an indicative of skill but when comparing a 30k dps guy to a 50k dps guy you can't say that the 30k dps guy is more skilled, if the guy doing 50k will do around 35k in raids then the guy doing 30k will do 15k and that's especially true for vAS and vCR fights where people pull numbers sub 15k ST.

If they can't do well on a dummy that doesn't fight back then how do you expect them to magically do well in raids?

MikaHR wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

the real truth about dps in this game is that its broken.

Pretty much, and i have much better and fun things to do that standing in front of the dummy figuring out all way to exploit all the broken stuff in the game and how skill A interacts with skill B because thing C is broken and doesnt work as intended (or how it should because intuitevly it works as it should in most oter circumstances)

I solo vet dungeons and have 0 interest in raids. In the end, all MMOs of this kind have pretty much same mechanics and once you do some of them pretty much youve seen them all, its not a rocket science.

You don't have to. Other's have already figured out everything there is to figure out. No reason to reinvent the wheel.