quiting vet dungeons

twilightwarrick · April 2019

Hi well ill like to say I'm not blaming anyone but myself, however I feel the difficulty of some of these dungeons is only designed for players over cp 600
I'm really not enjoying myself anymore as a cp 320 night blade , not esp good at rotation yet, and un sure how much damage I can put out and sustain,
its becoming stressful and embarrassing, after having been kicked several times, from hard dungeons like white and gold, bloodroot, and a few others,
I'm only running them to get a few monster sets, however after being out of the game for over a year and coming back, it feels the difficulty for players
say between cp 200 and 600 has risen quite a bit, before even at cp 220 I could run a vet dungeon and get a monster helm without too much trouble

which is the time I got maybe 8 helms, in 15 runs now in the last month after returning I have only 2 out of maybe 15 runs, its seems dps is now a lot more demanding
for the new dlc dungeons , and if you cant provide a s hit ton you're out, I know they want to give the end game players more challenge, as many complained end game was too easy
however I now feel players under say well at least cp 400 are really between a rock and a hard place in some of these dungeons, actually I see people quitting before they even try
cause they know they don't have a s hit show.
so guess I,ll just run normal for keys for some of the masks I have, although i would like some of the new ones, it just too hard at the moment.
what bout you guys feel some of the vet dungeons are outta reach for players under cp 600

Vietfox · April 2019

Make sure you know all the mechanics from every dungeon, especially DLC ones. If you still struggle then switch to easier roles like tank or healer.

Jeremy · April 2019

twilightwarrick wrote: »

Hi well ill like to say I'm not blaming anyone but myself, however I feel the difficulty of some of these dungeons is only designed for players over cp 600
I'm really not enjoying myself anymore as a cp 320 night blade , not esp good at rotation yet, and un sure how much damage I can put out and sustain,
its becoming stressful and embarrassing, after having been kicked several times, from hard dungeons like white and gold, bloodroot, and a few others,
I'm only running them to get a few monster sets, however after being out of the game for over a year and coming back, it feels the difficulty for players
say between cp 200 and 600 has risen quite a bit, before even at cp 220 I could run a vet dungeon and get a monster helm without too much trouble

which is the time I got maybe 8 helms, in 15 runs now in the last month after returning I have only 2 out of maybe 15 runs, its seems dps is now a lot more demanding
for the new dlc dungeons , and if you cant provide a s hit ton you're out, I know they want to give the end game players more challenge, as many complained end game was too easy
however I now feel players under say well at least cp 400 are really between a rock and a hard place in some of these dungeons, actually I see people quitting before they even try
cause they know they don't have a s hit show.
so guess I,ll just run normal for keys for some of the masks I have, although i would like some of the new ones, it just too hard at the moment.
what bout you guys feel some of the vet dungeons are outta reach for players under cp 600

No need to quit veteran dungeons. Just avoid the DLC ones until you are comfortable doing them. I'm told they are going to be nerfed soon anyway.

SirAndy · April 2019

Run with friends and/or guildies, much more forgiving than pugging. Join a guild that is friendly to players that aren't aiming for a spot on the trial leaderboards.

I can highly recommend "Lone Wolf Help" if you are on PC/NA ...

FierceSam · April 2019

If you’re not familiar with the individual dungeons, or simply want a refresher/alternate take on how to do them, Xynodegaming.com’s All About Mechanics videos on YouTube are really helpful.

You shouldn’t need spectacular dps to do them, it’s much more important to understand how they work, so you know how to defeat them.

Also do try some guilds, most people I’ve met that way have been super helpful and friendly.

Good luck getting your hats.

Seminolegirl1992 · April 2019

Vet dungeons are doable at your cp. I would definitely suggest joining a guild that offers training for that sort of thing, so they can explain rotation, mechanics, and build.

Starlock · April 2019

There are a lot of factors that will impact how you do in veteran dungeons. The CP total you have is only one of those factors, and it is possible to have what most would consider plenty of CP and still have issues with veteran dungeons (especially DLC dungeons). What I've found the most helpful is one of two things.

One, to have one or two of the players be very experienced and able to carry you through, ideally while explaining how things work. I think the first veteran dungeon I did was like this, and it was a good experience because the fact I wasn't great and had no clue what I was doing didn't matter. The others understood and were supportive either way.

Two, and on a related note, solid teamwork and support is essential. I'm not talking about performing one's role, I'm talking about being a decent human being who has fun and is nice to play with. You can work together to try and figure things out if you establish good communication. When I have had groups like that we enjoyed ourselves even when we failed to clear the dungeon.

In short, it's not all about "builds" and "mechanics" and stuff like that. It's about the people you are sharing your time with.

AlnilamE · April 2019

As FierceSam points out, understanding the mechanics is more than half the battle.

How often have you run those dungeons you want helms from in Normal?

Could you explain each boss' mechanics to a new person in three sentences or less if you needed to?

Bloodroot in particular takes a lot of practice on a couple of the bosses to know when you have to move and what your priority targets are and their cues.

GoldenLight · April 2019

I run Veteran dungeons with my friend who is champion 321 right now and we have gone through a lot of them to get his monster helms he wants. Just the two of us and not even a 4 man group. I did have to take out the Ilmbris Twins by myself when he died right off the bat (didn't stay clear of the blast) but beside carpal tunnel real bad we were able to get his helm. So if 2 of us are doing them, i am sure that a 4 man of 320's would do awesome!

Jeremy · April 2019

GoldenLight wrote: »

I run Veteran dungeons with my friend who is champion 321 right now and we have gone through a lot of them to get his monster helms he wants. Just the two of us and not even a 4 man group. I did have to take out the Ilmbris Twins by myself when he died right off the bat (didn't stay clear of the blast) but beside carpal tunnel real bad we were able to get his helm. So if 2 of us are doing them, i am sure that a 4 man of 320's would do awesome!

There is a world of difference between Crypt of Hearts and Bloodroot Forge. Not all Veteran Dungeons are created equally.

starkerealm · April 2019

FierceSam wrote: »

If you’re not familiar with the individual dungeons, or simply want a refresher/alternate take on how to do them, Xynodegaming.com’s All About Mechanics videos on YouTube are really helpful.

You shouldn’t need spectacular dps to do them, it’s much more important to understand how they work, so you know how to defeat them.

Also do try some guilds, most people I’ve met that way have been super helpful and friendly.

Good luck getting your hats.

Yeah, agreed, @xynode's very good people. And I'm not just saying that because we keep inviting him back to the podcast. He's also got guilds on all six servers, I can only speak to the PCNA server, but they're pretty active and happy to help inexperienced players get better.

me_ming · April 2019

I'm sorry you have been having a bad time in vet DLC dungeons. But as what was mentioned above, part of contributing good dps number is knowing the mechanic (when to block, when to dodge roll, where to position, when to rez, and honestly when and where you can die, for easier rez). Try to read up on these dungeons, most of them are really do require you to learn what to do on not only boss fights, but also trash mobs. Knowing where and when you can output your dps gives you more dps. As for rotation, if you have a practice dummy you can use, that would be nice.

Lastly, like mentioned about it also helps when you have someone on the dungeon who is well experienced. And explain the mechanic to you. There is no shame in being carried. But you got to learn from what was taught. I took a break in this game for more or less 2 years. when I came back, I barely touched the newer DLC dungeons, Horns of the Reach upwards, I finally got someone from one of my guilds to set up a run for me and explain stuff. It was nice.

I will admit that having CP makes it easier and helps, but trust me it's not the most important thing in the world. Mindset and presence of mind, I would say, is needed more. Please don't quit vet dungeons entirely. Take a break maybe. You don't have to rush things. Take your time. Read up and maybe watch some youtube tutorials. But come back, you'll get it.

PS if you are in PC/NA I'll run a couple of dungeons with you, vWGT, vICP, the SoH dungeons are easier now, to be honest. I don't know if they nerfed them sometime before. But I was surprised how a PUG and I were able to 3 dps a vICP dungeon, when we had one of the DPS mistakenly queued as a tank.

FierceSam · April 2019

On a side note, the last time I was in vBRF we were there getting a guildie his hat.

Took us 3 hours to get through, but it was really fun working each fight out, getting better with every wipe. Hilariously, he had to leave just as we got to the final boss. Still hasn’t got his hat, but we’re all stupidly keen to go back and get it with him.

Like Starlock says, it’s all about the players.

LeagueTroll · April 2019

Pro tip, play a healer

Zavijah · April 2019

Honestly, I never would have appreciated what the difference in CP was until I actually hit cap and recalled how much of a hard time I had previously around your CP.

My old main too was a Night Blade. Great Class. But Glass Canon. Of course you're going to be embarrased, and useless to the group - if you are dead. But it's truly not as forgiving as other classes.

If I were you, I'd persevere until I had more CP to go into resists/damage and have the gear. Or go with something more forgiving like a Stam Sorc, or Stam Warden if you are going for the melee feels.

I can attest that making a Mag Warden with back bar heals, and front back ice damage - then queuing as a healer not only is extremely effective at vet but for a fun healer build you can still put out 20k which for that role is nothing to sneeze at.

Aznarb · April 2019

I don't think CP need to be that high.
I've do almost all of them between 160-350 and never got problem after I understand the strat.

But I can tell you, as a Healer, I've leave many group of 810+ player who was doing stupid thing and don't read chat to gather information about the mechanic.
Got them again this morning in White Gold Tower..
We did it at 3 tonight with guildy in vet..

I've made Imperial Prison yesterday, with a full 1st time group in pug.
Only 1 leave at the end cuz he run out of time.
I've take time to explain and we've do it after 5 wipe, was very fun.

Level doesn't matter, some people are just bad and didn't want to improve.

Difficulty is what make a game fun.
It make you improve and give you very good feeling when you improve yourself to stomp the barrier.
Look video, do it with friend, don't be upset when dying, laugh, try again, learn from your mistake, improve build if needed, etc..
I'm sure you gonna do it, give yourself some time

DaveMoeDee · April 2019

I actually waited until I was maybe CP700 before I started running vet dungeons regularly with my tank main. I found the base game ones very easy though at that point. But DLC dungeons were definitely more of a challenge. I always followed mechanics on a second window, which helped me a lot and usually meant clearing everything unless other group members were really over-matched.

Emmagoldman · April 2019

The DLC dungeons are mechanic specific. Once you learn it, it is way easier. Coms are a MUST. It helps the fight go so much smoother, rezzing is faster, and strategies can change to fit needs. For example, a super dps group ( which does include healer and tank boosting dps, might be able to skip content, while others needs to stay with mechanics.

stevenyaub16_ESO · April 2019

i didn't start doing the vet DLC dungeons until much later, the non-DLC ones are fine being oblivious to learning how to DPS/weave.

But it was not until I was getting 30k+ DPS on dummies did I start doing vet DLC.

I would stop doing DLC vet dungeons until you get yourself on a dummy and start improving your rotation (Light attack weaving) whilst continuing to do other stuff. You'll get there eventually CP does help but 300-400CP is enough if you know how to DPS efficiently. I'm sure theres plenty of other stuff you want to do beforehand.

m2rc · April 2019

The DLC dungeons are designed for organised/efficient groups. They're not designed for new players. New content should have a level of difficulty, otherwise the game gets stale as everything is dumbed down.

However, if you do learn the mechanics they are doable at lower CP levels. Playing a DPS role in these dungeons can be hard as you need to get the raw numbers on dummies but also in a dungeon/real time situation.

Solution: Play content you like and is rewarding, probably vet dungeons and maybe the mechanic intensive trials like Maw of Lorkhaj on normal mode as a CP 320. When you get more CP and subsequently more experience, go back to the hard content with organised groups and wipe the floor!

twilightwarrick · April 2019

thanks for the feedback , I have actually joined a couple of friendly guilds, that have just helped me do three vet dungeons.
just needed to find people with a little understanding and patience , these are older people guilds . had a couple of cp 810s helping out.
They let me take the lead and backed me up (quite often) when i was in trouble , yeah died a few times.
but what a change to the usual crowd I would meet in pugs, run flat out 100 miles a hour, if you mucked up a couple of times kicked, . I can see there are a lot of nice people playing, but also a lot of a ssholes to be honest,
well hopefully I will be okay now.

Aznarb · April 2019

stevenyaub16_ESO wrote: »

i didn't start doing the vet DLC dungeons until much later, the non-DLC ones are fine being oblivious to learning how to DPS/weave.

But it was not until I was getting 30k+ DPS on dummies did I start doing vet DLC.

I would stop doing DLC vet dungeons until you get yourself on a dummy and start improving your rotation (Light attack weaving) whilst continuing to do other stuff. You'll get there eventually CP does help but 300-400CP is enough if you know how to DPS efficiently. I'm sure theres plenty of other stuff you want to do beforehand.

TBH I always find dummies training pointless and have never do it.
Dummies don't move, don't hit you and don't have any mechanic, that not what you gonna encounter.
I've learn myself by soloing every world boss I've find.

JinMori · April 2019

People always use cp as a scapegoat, but as a matter of fact you would only be doing about 10 to 15 % more damage at max with max cp compared to 300, to put it into prospective, that's like 40k vs 44 to 46.

Huyen · April 2019

Vietfox wrote: »

Make sure you know all the mechanics from every dungeon, especially DLC ones. If you still struggle then switch to easier roles like tank or healer.

Yeah, like tanking is a walk in the park...tanking is alot more demanding then plain dps...

Michaelkeir · April 2019

We've all been there honestly. Which is why I started running a tank(my main) or healer. People are less likely to kick a tank even if not maxed CP. Truth is, if you low CP and DPS and end up in a vet dlc (BrF, MoS, etc) then you're getting booted most likely.

When I que up as a tank and see a low level CP in the group I like to wait and see how fast the can kill at least 2 trash pulls. If it takes you too long, I'd boot you... can't lie....but you'd get a chance at least. I don't mind explain boss mechanics.... but after the 8th or 9th time explaining... I've reached my limit for the day and get the booting mindset.

Soultions to your problem....run a healer or tank...run with a guild or friends, or just farm CP until you're high enough not to get kicked outright.

Aznarb · April 2019

Huyen wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Make sure you know all the mechanics from every dungeon, especially DLC ones. If you still struggle then switch to easier roles like tank or healer.

Yeah, like tanking is a walk in the park...tanking is alot more demanding then plain dps...

People just like to say what the other guy is playing is easier, just to feel better.
I've play most class in every role, and their is no "easy mode class".
They have all pro and con.
In some dungeon, Tank is gonna do the hard work, in another the healer is gonna have alot of pressure, and in another one, DPS will have lot to do.

Any role aren't easy when you start hard content.
A bad healer ? team wipe
A bad tank ? team wipe
A bad DPS ? Can be also wipe in some boss mechanic.

Never pick a class thinking "it's easy I've nothing to learn just gonna spam" it's not gonna work.
Just pick a class and role you like and then take your time to improve.
And, obvious tips, but since I encounter these kind of ppl alot these day :
Do the Normal version to learn mechanic before go Vet.

Vietfox · April 2019

Huyen wrote: »

@Vietfox wrote:

Make sure you know all the mechanics from every dungeon, especially DLC ones. If you still struggle then switch to easier roles like tank or healer.

Yeah, like tanking is a walk in the park...tanking is alot more demanding then plain dps...

You are a tank main i guess?
I've played all 3 roles with different classes and i can tell you that DD is more demanding than tank or healer.
You can do well in vet dungeons or trials as a tank or as a healer with lower quality gear and less CP. DDs need better gear (or more difficult to achieve) and more cp to do their job well.
That being said i would like to ask you this (everyone else can reply if they want to):
In a vet dlc dungeon, where 2 are max cp and the other 2 just 300 cp, who would you like to be the highest cp ones, tank and healer or those 2 DDs?

Edit: btw, i'm a pvper who hates to spend time on pve world thus i don't wanna farm for pve characters, that's why i always queue as a tank or healer. Also because queues are shorter. So no, i'm not a DD trying to say that my role is the best one because i wouldn't even pve if i had the chance.

Kurat · April 2019

Vietfox wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

@Vietfox wrote:

Make sure you know all the mechanics from every dungeon, especially DLC ones. If you still struggle then switch to easier roles like tank or healer.

Yeah, like tanking is a walk in the park...tanking is alot more demanding then plain dps...

That being said i would like to ask you this (everyone else can reply if they want to):
In a vet dlc dungeon, where 2 are max cp and the other 2 just 300 cp, who would you like to be the highest cp ones, tank and healer or those 2 DDs?

As a max cp dps, when I do vet dlc dungeon I'd like to see max cp tank. Healer cp doesn't matter and I would rather go with 3 dps if the tank is good.

Vietfox · April 2019

Kurat wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Huyen wrote: »

@Vietfox wrote:

Make sure you know all the mechanics from every dungeon, especially DLC ones. If you still struggle then switch to easier roles like tank or healer.

Yeah, like tanking is a walk in the park...tanking is alot more demanding then plain dps...

That being said i would like to ask you this (everyone else can reply if they want to):
In a vet dlc dungeon, where 2 are max cp and the other 2 just 300 cp, who would you like to be the highest cp ones, tank and healer or those 2 DDs?

As a max cp dps, when I do vet dlc dungeon I'd like to see max cp tank. Healer cp doesn't matter and I would rather go with 3 dps if the tank is good.

@Kurat
In my experience mx cp DDs give less trouble than max cp tank. The sooner the boss is dead the better.
You can even skip some mechanics with good DDs.
Agreed on the healer thing.

Aznarb · April 2019

Kurat wrote:

That being said i would like to ask you this (everyone else can reply if they want to):
In a vet dlc dungeon, where 2 are max cp and the other 2 just 300 cp, who would you like to be the highest cp ones, tank and healer or those 2 DDs?

I've play with many different class and role at low CP in DLC vet, CP doesn't matter.
Knowing the strat, good build (doesn't matter if meta or not if it work) and basic rotation is what matter to do it fine.

Can't told you how many high CP player group I've left cuz they was doing total sh** and didn't want to read chat to improve.

CP is just an excuse for bad player, good player don't care.

idk · April 2019

I suggest not quitting the dungeons but finding like minded players to run the dungeons regularly. It is not your CP level, but experience with the mechanics and possibly playstyle. Both of which can greatly improve with more experience.