While you are at rebalancing don't forget about Shadow Cloak / Disguise

Commancho · April 2019

Now:
Shadow Cloak
Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 2.5 seconds.

Shadowy Disguise
Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 2.5 seconds.
Your next attack within 3 seconds will always be a Critical Strike.

Suggestion:
Shadow Cloak
Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 2.5 seconds.
Casting again within 5 seconds cost 50% more Magicka.

Shadowy Disguise
Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 2.5 seconds.
Your next attack within 3 seconds will always be a Critical Strike.
Casting again within 5 seconds cost 50% more Magicka.

Neyane · April 2019

No thanks

rafaelcsmaia · April 2019

Just because streak got this stupid treatment doesn't mean every single escape should as well. After that whats next? Increase cost on shield spam? Gap closer? Stop asking for nerfs ffs

Heimpai · April 2019

Sure, when sorc shields get the same treatment

FleetwoodSmack · April 2019

Now:

People don't use counters against cloak.

Suggestion:

Start using counters against cloak.

"bUt ThEy DoN't WoRk!1!!1!"

Fun fact, they do work. They work really well if you know what you're doing. I've been sniffing out cloakers at Nik almost on the daily when my alliance has it. Is it annoying if they get away? Sure. But it's like fishing. They'll hit that bait at least three times before trying to make a gank. If they were smart, they'd realize it by now. But they haven't and I'm bettin' that they won't. So nerfing cloak? Ruins my fishing experience. Don't get in my way for my NB fishing achievement.

ApostateHobo · April 2019

How about we don't

Commancho · April 2019

FleetwoodSmack wrote: »

Now:

People don't use counters against cloak.

Suggestion:

Start using counters against cloak.

"bUt ThEy DoN't WoRk!1!!1!"

Fun fact, they do work. They work really well if you know what you're doing. I've been sniffing out cloakers at Nik almost on the daily when my alliance has it. Is it annoying if they get away? Sure. But it's like fishing. They'll hit that bait at least three times before trying to make a gank. If they were smart, they'd realize it by now. But they haven't and I'm bettin' that they won't. So nerfing cloak? Ruins my fishing experience. Don't get in my way for my NB fishing achievement.

From my experience - 8 of 10 players in BG are Nightblades. I don't want to play PVP for fishing, I want action and I'm tired of cloaking cowards running away in the diffrent directions when they see me just to regroup when I'm busy with fighting someone esle. I don't want my kills to be stolen by cowards from my team cloaking and waiting for me to do the job so they can finish off my targets. Stamblade shouldn't have such a great access to this cheezy tactic and it should be limited for Magblades as well. Nightblades can get something in exchange increasing their survivalibity or healing.

FleetwoodSmack · April 2019

Commancho wrote: »

FleetwoodSmack wrote: »

Now:

People don't use counters against cloak.

Suggestion:

Start using counters against cloak.

"bUt ThEy DoN't WoRk!1!!1!"

Fun fact, they do work. They work really well if you know what you're doing. I've been sniffing out cloakers at Nik almost on the daily when my alliance has it. Is it annoying if they get away? Sure. But it's like fishing. They'll hit that bait at least three times before trying to make a gank. If they were smart, they'd realize it by now. But they haven't and I'm bettin' that they won't. So nerfing cloak? Ruins my fishing experience. Don't get in my way for my NB fishing achievement.

From my experience - 8 of 10 players in BG are Nightblades. I don't want to play PVP for fishing, I want action and I'm tired of cloaking cowards running away in the diffrent directions when they see me just to regroup when I'm busy with fighting someone esle. I don't want my kills to be stolen by cowards from my team cloaking and waiting for me to do the job so they can finish off my targets. Stamblade shouldn't have such a great access to this cheezy tactic and it should be limited for Magblades as well. Nightblades can get something in exchange increasing their survivalibity or healing.

I'm gonna break down the relevant parts here. AHEM.

From my experience - 8 of 10 players in BG are Nightblades

Your experience isn't indicative of the general experience. If you're encountering that many NBs, perhaps you're in low MMR matches. I hear they're not high tier at all. In my experience, I see a lot of sorcs, stamdens, and wing happy DKs with an occasional healbot Templar. I'm not even mid-tier MMR.

I don't want to play PVP for fishing

Then you don't need to be calling for nerfs because you refuse to counter them.

I don't want to play PVP for fishing, I want action and I'm tired of cloaking cowards running away in the diffrent directions when they see me just to regroup when I'm busy with fighting someone esle. I don't want my kills to be stolen by cowards from my team cloaking and waiting for me to do the job so they can finish off my targets.

There's this strange concept in MMOs called guilds. Surely you can find three other people to make a premade group to your liking. That's nothing to do with cloak. That has everything to do with your responsibility as a player who wants specific tastes in group gameplay. I don't like sorcs stealing my kills, but there they are just wrathing away.

Stamblade shouldn't have such a great access to this cheezy tactic and it should be limited for Magblades as well

Wings is pretty cheesy currently in live.
Streak is still pretty cheesy in live. They found a way around that 50% increased cost rate.
Werewolf is pretty cheesy in live right now.
I've seen Templars heal to full health at the snap of a finger in live.
I've seen Wardens die in lava.

Every class has a cheesy tactic. Just because YOU don't want to counter it, or group with friends doesn't mean it's the ability's fault. But go ahead and continue to complain about how you refuse to counter cloak, just like the other 10,000 threads with the same 10,000 posts of salt about cloak and waste everyone's time.

craybest · April 2019

the year is 2035, people are still complaining about rogues and stealth in MMOs, even after they've been pretty much in all MMOs since their creation, people still refuse to learn to play against them and demands they are nerfed... again.

Commancho · April 2019

So you expect all other classes to learn how to counter ONE ABILITY which is exclusive FOR ONE CLASS? Rogue class? There is no such a thing. Just like DK is not a "knight" or sorcerer is not a magican.

It's your build defines your class in ESO, so how about let's give cloak to all classes and we will see how many Nightblades will remain loyal to their class? Or 5p set which grants you invisibility while you are sneaking? Why I can play a sorcer who is a barbarian with 2h Axe, Dragon Knight who is a wizzard and I can't play a Warden who is stealth assasin? I mean all the changes to racial passives and classes they have done currently have one purpose - to make every class and race a valid choice and to not limit your experience.

If it's so easy to counter cloak, then why you refuse to make any changes to it? I mean it's useless skill, everyone can dectect you blah blah, right? So what's the big deal? I see no real arguments here, but "sorcs this", "DK that".

You sound ridiculus, NB is most OVERUSED class in this game for a reason and I'm sure that ZOS has data to check this.

david_m_18b16_ESO · April 2019

Heimpai wrote: »

Sure, when sorc shields get the same treatment

Sorc streak got that treatment thats why its a good suggestion.

david_m_18b16_ESO · April 2019

FleetwoodSmack wrote: »

Now:

People don't use counters against cloak.

Suggestion:

Start using counters against cloak.

"bUt ThEy DoN't WoRk!1!!1!"

Fun fact, they do work. They work really well if you know what you're doing. I've been sniffing out cloakers at Nik almost on the daily when my alliance has it. Is it annoying if they get away? Sure.:|

Same could be said about streak but well, it got that treatment. And well I'd say streak wasn't as bad since you could root wich is a skill used to counter more then just 1 class.

Cloak alone force everyones to slot a counter skill for the sole purpose to counter 1 single class.

Sure if cloak get tuned, NB would need some buff. Actualy I think they already need some love even with cloak beeing in its current form.

david_m_18b16_ESO · April 2019

craybest wrote: »

the year is 2035, people are still complaining about rogues and stealth in MMOs, even after they've been pretty much in all MMOs since their creation, people still refuse to learn to play against them and demands they are nerfed... again.

But ESO is the only MMO with stealth not beeing on CD. In most MMO its on a 1 to 2 mins CD. Its not something that you could spam.

Vietfox · April 2019

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Sure, when sorc shields get the same treatment

Sorc streak got that treatment thats why its a good suggestion.

Then where's nb class shield?

brandonv516 · April 2019

AoEs work pretty darn well against Cloak and many are being improved as well.

There are also potions and skills.

So thank you kindly if you please shut up.

david_m_18b16_ESO · April 2019

Vietfox wrote: »

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Sure, when sorc shields get the same treatment

Sorc streak got that treatment thats why its a good suggestion.

Then where's nb class shield?

Makes no sense, cloak is NB version of steak. I mean streak got cost increase so in order to see cloak increase we need to give another sorc skill cost increase ?

david_m_18b16_ESO · April 2019

brandonv516 wrote: »

AoEs work pretty darn well against Cloak and many are being improved as well.

There are also potions and skills.

So thank you kindly if you please shut up.

Wasting a potions CD or a skill slot is giving a lots in order to counter 1 single class skill. AoE works *** agaisnt cloaker using bows if they are not retardly enough to stand in the same place they have invised.

FleetwoodSmack · April 2019

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

FleetwoodSmack wrote: »

Now:

People don't use counters against cloak.

Suggestion:

Start using counters against cloak.

"bUt ThEy DoN't WoRk!1!!1!"

Fun fact, they do work. They work really well if you know what you're doing. I've been sniffing out cloakers at Nik almost on the daily when my alliance has it. Is it annoying if they get away? Sure.:|

Same could be said about streak but well, it got that treatment. And well I'd say streak wasn't as bad since you could root wich is a skill used to counter more then just 1 class.

Cloak alone force everyones to slot a counter skill for the sole purpose to counter 1 single class.

Sure if cloak get tuned, NB would need some buff. Actualy I think they already need some love even with cloak beeing in its current form.

And wings forces everyone to slot a beam weapon as a magicka character.
Magical projectiles force people to slot wings.
Streak forces everyone to slot a gap closer.
Debuffs forces everyone to slot Purge.
Siege forces everyone to slot siege bubbles.
Heals to counter incoming damage.
Outgoing damage to counter heals.
Oblivion damage for Sorc Shields.
Sets to counter sets.
Lag to counter incoming defense.

Literally everything you slot is a counter to something. That's the nature of PvP.

Not to mention the fact that most general users of cloak will tell you that it's seriously easily broken; Stealth pots tend to be the meal ticket for a lot of classes. Including Nightblades. Either way, you're going to have people being 'cowardly'. So if you don't want to slot counters like AoE or even slotting Radiant Magelight just so you're not insta-gibbed? That's not cloak's fault. That's yours. For being ill-prepared.

Also; If you think cloak is bad? Try invisibility potions with added effects and then tell us how OP cloak is.

FleetwoodSmack · April 2019

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

AoEs work pretty darn well against Cloak and many are being improved as well.

There are also potions and skills.

So thank you kindly if you please shut up.

Wasting a potions CD or a skill slot is giving a lots in order to counter 1 single class skill. AoE works *** agaisnt cloaker using bows if they are not retardly enough to stand in the same place they have invised.

If you're not going to bother with the counters, then you deserve to get ganked. Plain and simple. I used to complain a lot about cloak back in the day. When it WAS reliable. I learned the counters, I refined my playstyle- now I don't have an issue aside from running out of room for my salty, salty hatemail.

SpacemanSpiff1 · April 2019

Sounds like someone is bad at or too lazy to counter cloak. Nobody tell him about invis pots.

FleetwoodSmack · April 2019

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

Sounds like someone is bad at or too lazy to counter cloak. Nobody tell him about invis pots.

Um... Too late.

killingspreeb16_ESO · April 2019

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Sure, when sorc shields get the same treatment

Sorc streak got that treatment thats why its a good suggestion.

Then where's nb class shield?

Makes no sense, cloak is NB version of steak. I mean streak got cost increase so in order to see cloak increase we need to give another sorc skill cost increase ?

Again this stupid suggestion...streak works all the time and there are only soft counter to streak that's why it got the cost increase and can be sustained with dark deal.

There is no skill or potion that make you lose magika and you stand still in the same position or suppress the skill for x second also aoe are not making streak useless.

That's why cloak don't have and need a cost increase,also you don't need to slot aspecific counter,you can if you want but is not needed.
There are skill like jabs,spin to win etc that alredy works pretty well especially combined with a snare.

Datthaw · April 2019

Commancho wrote: »

Now:
Shadow Cloak
Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 2.5 seconds.

Shadowy Disguise
Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 2.5 seconds.
Your next attack within 3 seconds will always be a Critical Strike.

Suggestion:
Shadow Cloak
Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 2.5 seconds.
Casting again within 5 seconds cost 50% more Magicka.

Shadowy Disguise
Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 2.5 seconds.
Your next attack within 3 seconds will always be a Critical Strike.
Casting again within 5 seconds cost 50% more Magicka.

What class do you play?

Vietfox · April 2019

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Sure, when sorc shields get the same treatment

Sorc streak got that treatment thats why its a good suggestion.

Then where's nb class shield?

Makes no sense, cloak is NB version of steak. I mean streak got cost increase so in order to see cloak increase we need to give another sorc skill cost increase ?

You don't understand.
Let's assume cloak is the NB version of streak (which is not), if you are asking for the same treatment then i'm asking you where's the Conjured Ward version for NBs.

Datthaw · April 2019

Commancho wrote: »

FleetwoodSmack wrote: »

Now:

People don't use counters against cloak.

Suggestion:

Start using counters against cloak.

"bUt ThEy DoN't WoRk!1!!1!"

Fun fact, they do work. They work really well if you know what you're doing. I've been sniffing out cloakers at Nik almost on the daily when my alliance has it. Is it annoying if they get away? Sure. But it's like fishing. They'll hit that bait at least three times before trying to make a gank. If they were smart, they'd realize it by now. But they haven't and I'm bettin' that they won't. So nerfing cloak? Ruins my fishing experience. Don't get in my way for my NB fishing achievement.

From my experience - 8 of 10 players in BG are Nightblades. I don't want to play PVP for fishing, I want action and I'm tired of cloaking cowards running away in the diffrent directions when they see me just to regroup when I'm busy with fighting someone esle. I don't want my kills to be stolen by cowards from my team cloaking and waiting for me to do the job so they can finish off my targets. Stamblade shouldn't have such a great access to this cheezy tactic and it should be limited for Magblades as well. Nightblades can get something in exchange increasing their survivalibity or healing.

What server do you play? Bgs on pcna is all magsorcs and stam toons

david_m_18b16_ESO · April 2019

FleetwoodSmack wrote: »

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

FleetwoodSmack wrote: »

Now:

People don't use counters against cloak.

Suggestion:

Start using counters against cloak.

"bUt ThEy DoN't WoRk!1!!1!"

Fun fact, they do work. They work really well if you know what you're doing. I've been sniffing out cloakers at Nik almost on the daily when my alliance has it. Is it annoying if they get away? Sure.:|

Same could be said about streak but well, it got that treatment. And well I'd say streak wasn't as bad since you could root wich is a skill used to counter more then just 1 class.

Cloak alone force everyones to slot a counter skill for the sole purpose to counter 1 single class.

Sure if cloak get tuned, NB would need some buff. Actualy I think they already need some love even with cloak beeing in its current form.

And wings forces everyone to slot a beam weapon as a magicka character.
Magical projectiles force people to slot wings.
Streak forces everyone to slot a gap closer.
Debuffs forces everyone to slot Purge.
Siege forces everyone to slot siege bubbles.
Heals to counter incoming damage.
Outgoing damage to counter heals.
Oblivion damage for Sorc Shields.
Sets to counter sets.
Lag to counter incoming defense.

Literally everything you slot is a counter to something. That's the nature of PvP.

Not to mention the fact that most general users of cloak will tell you that it's seriously easily broken; Stealth pots tend to be the meal ticket for a lot of classes. Including Nightblades. Either way, you're going to have people being 'cowardly'. So if you don't want to slot counters like AoE or even slotting Radiant Magelight just so you're not insta-gibbed? That's not cloak's fault. That's yours. For being ill-prepared.

Also; If you think cloak is bad? Try invisibility potions with added effects and then tell us how OP cloak is.

Wings are getting fixed also.

Streak does not force anyones to slot gap closers.

As for the rest you compare mecanics available to everyones and other mecanics available to everyones while the point is that cloack is a single skill available to a single class forcing everyoens to slot skills in order toc ounter it.

david_m_18b16_ESO · April 2019

I don,t understand ? I gues snot, I don,t see why you are asking for a sorc class to be ended to you while I ask for cloak to get a mecanic that prevent spamming it.

david_m_18b16_ESO · April 2019

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Sure, when sorc shields get the same treatment

Sorc streak got that treatment thats why its a good suggestion.

There are skill like jabs,spin to win etc that alredy works pretty well especially combined with a snare.

Works only with melee NB.

I don,t get why NB player act like if every non tank build did not had magelight sloted only for the sole purpose of countering them.

Vietfox wrote: »

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Sure, when sorc shields get the same treatment

Sorc streak got that treatment thats why its a good suggestion.

Then where's nb class shield?

Makes no sense, cloak is NB version of steak. I mean streak got cost increase so in order to see cloak increase we need to give another sorc skill cost increase ?

You don't understand.
Let's assume cloak is the NB version of streak (which is not), if you are asking for the same treatment then i'm asking you where's the Conjured Ward version for NBs.

I don,t understand ? I gues snot, I don,t see why you are asking for a sorc class to be ended to you while I ask for cloak to get a mecanic that prevent spamming it.

FleetwoodSmack · April 2019

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

FleetwoodSmack wrote: »

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

FleetwoodSmack wrote: »

Now:

People don't use counters against cloak.

Suggestion:

Start using counters against cloak.

"bUt ThEy DoN't WoRk!1!!1!"

Fun fact, they do work. They work really well if you know what you're doing. I've been sniffing out cloakers at Nik almost on the daily when my alliance has it. Is it annoying if they get away? Sure.:|

Same could be said about streak but well, it got that treatment. And well I'd say streak wasn't as bad since you could root wich is a skill used to counter more then just 1 class.

Cloak alone force everyones to slot a counter skill for the sole purpose to counter 1 single class.

Sure if cloak get tuned, NB would need some buff. Actualy I think they already need some love even with cloak beeing in its current form.

And wings forces everyone to slot a beam weapon as a magicka character.
Magical projectiles force people to slot wings.
Streak forces everyone to slot a gap closer.
Debuffs forces everyone to slot Purge.
Siege forces everyone to slot siege bubbles.
Heals to counter incoming damage.
Outgoing damage to counter heals.
Oblivion damage for Sorc Shields.
Sets to counter sets.
Lag to counter incoming defense.

Literally everything you slot is a counter to something. That's the nature of PvP.

Not to mention the fact that most general users of cloak will tell you that it's seriously easily broken; Stealth pots tend to be the meal ticket for a lot of classes. Including Nightblades. Either way, you're going to have people being 'cowardly'. So if you don't want to slot counters like AoE or even slotting Radiant Magelight just so you're not insta-gibbed? That's not cloak's fault. That's yours. For being ill-prepared.

Also; If you think cloak is bad? Try invisibility potions with added effects and then tell us how OP cloak is.

Wings are getting fixed also.

Streak does not force anyones to slot gap closers.

As for the rest you compare mecanics available to everyones and other mecanics available to everyones while the point is that cloack is a single skill available to a single class forcing everyoens to slot skills in order toc ounter it.

The wings fix isn't currently on live, sooooo the point still stands.

I see plenty of people gapclosing streaking sorcs. Just like I see good players slotting AoE to get rid of cloakers. If you're incapable of seeing the point, brah? You deserve to get ganked. Repeatedly. It's not like we have tooltips and hints just to make the game look pretty.

Vietfox · April 2019

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

I don,t understand ? I gues snot, I don,t see why you are asking for a sorc class to be ended to you while I ask for cloak to get a mecanic that prevent spamming it.

Ok, you clearly need to learn to read.

david_m_18b16_ESO · April 2019

FleetwoodSmack wrote: »

david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

AoEs work pretty darn well against Cloak and many are being improved as well.

There are also potions and skills.

So thank you kindly if you please shut up.

Wasting a potions CD or a skill slot is giving a lots in order to counter 1 single class skill. AoE works *** agaisnt cloaker using bows if they are not retardly enough to stand in the same place they have invised.

If you're not going to bother with the counters, then you deserve to get ganked. Plain and simple. I used to complain a lot about cloak back in the day. When it WAS reliable. I learned the counters, I refined my playstyle- now I don't have an issue aside from running out of room for my salty, salty hatemail.

I don't have issue with cloak why are you assuming this ? I don't get ganked bcuz I do slot magelight on pretty much all of my toon beside my NB. Since I use him as a bow ganker.