Should people who have been kick voted be prevented from being put back in your group through finder

highkingnm · April 2019

Yes

jaws343 wrote: »

There is a difference between playing with inexperienced players and being forced to play with abusive players or players who refuse to learn and make completion of a dungeon impossible.

Inexperienced players who wish to learn are fine. Players who ignore advice, like taunt the boss, repeatedly and who contribute regularly to group failure in a dungeon deserve to be kicked from the group. Players who berate and belittle other team members for mistakes or for any other number of reasons deserve to be kicked from the group.

Precisely. I also need to underline this was a vet pledge and they were clearly queuing for a specific dungeon. For vet pledges we should not be lumped with someone who cannot do the most basic element of tanking. For all the people implying that using GF to find a last member then kicking them for being bad, yet to see one person accept that someone who cannot do basic tanking should not queue for vet pledges. The fact we were willing to give advice even then should be worth something, but no. Apparently we created a toxic atmosphere by expecting someone who isn’t completely incompetent.

jaws343 · April 2019

Yes

Dojohoda wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

No, I believe a system that tags players to not play with certain other players could be abused. Also if it bugs out, that would be an actual time waster, not the fake time waster of being entitled to 4 knowledgeable players in a PUG.

(suggestion) If you want to do dungeons with players who are experienced, form a full group before queuing.

I also like the comment that suggests that you make a tank. Reading the forums has given me the impression that the game needs more tanks.

There is a difference between playing with inexperienced players and being forced to play with abusive players or players who refuse to learn and make completion of a dungeon impossible.

Inexperienced players who wish to learn are fine. Players who ignore advice, like taunt the boss, repeatedly and who contribute regularly to group failure in a dungeon deserve to be kicked from the group. Players who berate and belittle other team members for mistakes or for any other number of reasons deserve to be kicked from the group.

Everyone in group can advertise in their guilds for a tank. Maybe that is not always realistic, but it's better than asking for a system that can be abused.

How exactly can this be abused?

It would actually be better than the current system where you get kicked from a group, or leave a group, and then you get put right back into that same group when your 15 minute cooldown is over. Now you just wasted 30 minutes in the cooldown because the group was awful or a player in the group was abusive. Rather than just not being able to queue into a group with those players in that same instance again. In my example earlier, an abusive player kept ending up in our group and we continued to kick them. I am not going to run with a player who is constantly laying abuse on group members for no reason, regardless of how good they are. And when 3 of the 4 players in the group are fine, it isn't their problem and it shouldn't continue to be their problem. And the tools in place to find groups shouldn't perpetuate the problem.

You are also assuming that all players are in guilds or that only players in guilds should be listened to. Which is ridiculous. It would be like me saying to ask your PVP group for help with a dungeon when you aren't a pvper and don't have a pvp group.

Jeremy · April 2019

highkingnm wrote: »

So, was doing pledges today, first one was an unremarkable but fine vTempest. One wipe, not going to set the world on fire but pretty good and no deaths on any boss but last, with HM on.

So three of us dive into vDCII. New tank who takes a while to load in so we clear first trash without them. They have S&B, CP 500 or so, so I think it’s fine. No fake tank after all. Except this one was worse. They punctured one Enemy on trash pull and just kept spamming puncture. First boss comes up and I know it’ll be bad but think ‘so long as they at least taunt the boss, we’re fine. They taunt a single add. When it dies, they move to the next. After 4 they eventually move to the boss, only because he is next in line. With mobs everywhere, other DPS and healer wipe, I can’t get Rez due to aggro. I die. They then stand there spamming puncture. No attempt to Rez, just puncture. Worst thing is they clearly have the gear because they just won’t die. I launch vote kick, one team mate convinced me to give another try after saying they need to aggro boss and adds. Together. We try again, same exact thing. Vote kick passes.

That should be the end of it in my view. Once kicked, it is clear the group doesn’t want them, either for personal reasons or skill reasons. I won’t get into kicks where it’s three spiteful people kicking out low CP, I know it happens and I think it sucks. But clearly, those people should not be in a group together.

Except it doesn’t end there. Three more times, we get them dropped in as our tank. Three more quick votes, wasted time and eventually we just give up, knowing exactly who will port through the door the second we requeue. I don’t get why group finder can’t factor stuff like this in. Why should we keep being given someone we have chosen to boot out? It wastes our time. I would say it would also waste theirs, but let’s be honest, they are never clearing it and are just wasting their own time at this point.

So, back to the title. Should people who are kick voted be prevented from rejoining the group from finder?

E: rephrased to be clear - yes means should NOT be allowed to rejoin

If the tank was just spamming puncture I doubt he would have been able to stay alive, especially after everyone else wiped. So I suspect he was doing other things you didn't realize. In any case - puncture is their taunt move so it makes since they would be using that move a lot.

If my memory doesn't fail me (and it may) the first boss of Darkshade Caverns II is the lady who uses the rotating flame thrower. There is a set of adds laying down right before the boss many groups forget about that usually wind up ambushing people during the boss fight. I suspect that may be what happened here. Otherwise a decent group should have been able to deal with the adds.

zaria · April 2019

highkingnm wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

There is a difference between playing with inexperienced players and being forced to play with abusive players or players who refuse to learn and make completion of a dungeon impossible.

Inexperienced players who wish to learn are fine. Players who ignore advice, like taunt the boss, repeatedly and who contribute regularly to group failure in a dungeon deserve to be kicked from the group. Players who berate and belittle other team members for mistakes or for any other number of reasons deserve to be kicked from the group.

Precisely. I also need to underline this was a vet pledge and they were clearly queuing for a specific dungeon. For vet pledges we should not be lumped with someone who cannot do the most basic element of tanking. For all the people implying that using GF to find a last member then kicking them for being bad, yet to see one person accept that someone who cannot do basic tanking should not queue for vet pledges. The fact we were willing to give advice even then should be worth something, but no. Apparently we created a toxic atmosphere by expecting someone who isn’t completely incompetent.

This, and its an insane difference between an cp 180 with sword and shield and some high cp guy with an bow / bow build tanking

The cp180 has probably bad gear, obviously low cp and very nervous. "healer" gave no heals.
Buff vigor

All my magic builds has an healer setup simply because queue is shorter. And people might need healing.
Or switching from overland to tank setup on an Summerset world boss, or solving that problem

highkingnm · April 2019

Yes

Jeremy wrote: »

If the tank was just spamming puncture I doubt he would have been able to stay alive, especially after everyone else wiped. So I suspect he was doing other things you didn't realize. In any case - puncture is their taunt move so it makes since they would be using that move a lot.

If my memory doesn't fail me (and it may) the first boss of Darkshade Caverns II is the lady who uses the rotating flame thrower. There is a set of adds laying down right before the boss many groups forget about that usually wind up ambushing people during the boss fight. I suspect that may be what happened here. Otherwise a decent group should have been able to deal with the adds.

On trash pulls they aggroed one mob. They did not aggro the boss until they had finished off 2/3 adds. They may have blocked, but puncture was the only skill and it was used every four or five seconds on the same mob they were on. There was no prioritisation, no multiple mobs. You are right about the boss. But they made no effort to taunt anything other than whatever the first mob they went to was. They taunted the first add until it was dead. THEN to the next. I don’t mind if they forget adds or the like, but they just couldn’t tank. They didn’t go for the boss or even other adds.

Jeremy · April 2019

highkingnm wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

If the tank was just spamming puncture I doubt he would have been able to stay alive, especially after everyone else wiped. So I suspect he was doing other things you didn't realize. In any case - puncture is their taunt move so it makes since they would be using that move a lot.

If my memory doesn't fail me (and it may) the first boss of Darkshade Caverns II is the lady who uses the rotating flame thrower. There is a set of adds laying down right before the boss many groups forget about that usually wind up ambushing people during the boss fight. I suspect that may be what happened here. Otherwise a decent group should have been able to deal with the adds.

On trash pulls they aggroed one mob. They did not aggro the boss until they had finished off 2/3 adds. They may have blocked, but puncture was the only skill and it was used every four or five seconds on the same mob they were on. There was no prioritisation, no multiple mobs. You are right about the boss. But they made no effort to taunt anything other than whatever the first mob they went to was. They taunted the first add until it was dead. THEN to the next. I don’t mind if they forget adds or the like, but they just couldn’t tank. They didn’t go for the boss or even other adds.

The most threatening thing about that boss if I recall is her flame attack - which basically just rotates and taunting her doesn't change that. So if the boss was wiping your group I doubt the tank was to blame. It was likely the fact you were all being hit by her flame attack which the tank can't prevent.

Dojohoda · April 2019

No

jaws343 wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

No, I believe a system that tags players to not play with certain other players could be abused. Also if it bugs out, that would be an actual time waster, not the fake time waster of being entitled to 4 knowledgeable players in a PUG.

(suggestion) If you want to do dungeons with players who are experienced, form a full group before queuing.

I also like the comment that suggests that you make a tank. Reading the forums has given me the impression that the game needs more tanks.

There is a difference between playing with inexperienced players and being forced to play with abusive players or players who refuse to learn and make completion of a dungeon impossible.

Inexperienced players who wish to learn are fine. Players who ignore advice, like taunt the boss, repeatedly and who contribute regularly to group failure in a dungeon deserve to be kicked from the group. Players who berate and belittle other team members for mistakes or for any other number of reasons deserve to be kicked from the group.

Everyone in group can advertise in their guilds for a tank. Maybe that is not always realistic, but it's better than asking for a system that can be abused.

How exactly can this be abused?

It would actually be better than the current system where you get kicked from a group, or leave a group, and then you get put right back into that same group when your 15 minute cooldown is over. Now you just wasted 30 minutes in the cooldown because the group was awful or a player in the group was abusive. Rather than just not being able to queue into a group with those players in that same instance again. In my example earlier, an abusive player kept ending up in our group and we continued to kick them. I am not going to run with a player who is constantly laying abuse on group members for no reason, regardless of how good they are. And when 3 of the 4 players in the group are fine, it isn't their problem and it shouldn't continue to be their problem. And the tools in place to find groups shouldn't perpetuate the problem.

You are also assuming that all players are in guilds or that only players in guilds should be listened to. Which is ridiculous. It would be like me saying to ask your PVP group for help with a dungeon when you aren't a pvper and don't have a pvp group.

I'm only assuming that being an MMO, players might be in a guild. I did say that asking in guilds might be unrealistic. I didn't say that "only players in guilds should be listened to". Don't put words in my mouth.

highkingnm · April 2019

Yes

Jeremy wrote: »

The most threatening thing about that boss if I recall is her flame attack - which basically just rotates and taunting her doesn't change that. So if the boss was wiping your group I doubt the tank was to blame. It was likely the fact you were all being hit by her flame attack which the tank can't prevent.

It was the adds that got us. Once they moved to the boss not a single add was aggroed. Because of that we couldn’t focus them down. As I say, we did fine with a competent tank for Tempest, with just one wipe on last boss because we lost structure and couldn’t rez for the gusts. But this one was causing wipes because of all the adds everywhere. It shouldn’t be a hard fight, I’ve done it 4/5 times as heals, DPS and tank and never had this problem. The flame attack did occasionally hit us but, as someone who mains a tank and therefore can tell what they were doing, please let me reiterate. They would only taunt one thing at a time with no prioritisation. The first taunt went to whatever was closest and they would not taunt anything new until that was dead. They were a useless tank. The tank could have prevented wipes by aggroing adds, aggroing the boss first not 30 seconds into the fight, resurrecting when everyone else is down rather than just standing there trying to burn a boss with puncture whilst it is on 70% or simply laying down a single group buff. Myself and the other two players (CP400 and 700, both of whom do vet dungeons routinely) all agreed they were the single worst tank we have seen. The tank was awful and almost wholly responsible for the wipe.

Jeremy · April 2019

highkingnm wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

The most threatening thing about that boss if I recall is her flame attack - which basically just rotates and taunting her doesn't change that. So if the boss was wiping your group I doubt the tank was to blame. It was likely the fact you were all being hit by her flame attack which the tank can't prevent.

It was the adds that got us. Once they moved to the boss not a single add was aggroed. Because of that we couldn’t focus them down. As I say, we did fine with a competent tank for Tempest, with just one wipe on last boss because we lost structure and couldn’t rez for the gusts. But this one was causing wipes because of all the adds everywhere. It shouldn’t be a hard fight, I’ve done it 4/5 times as heals, DPS and tank and never had this problem. The flame attack did occasionally hit us but, as someone who mains a tank and therefore can tell what they were doing, please let me reiterate. They would only taunt one thing at a time with no prioritisation. The first taunt went to whatever was closest and they would not taunt anything new until that was dead. They were a useless tank. The tank could have prevented wipes by aggroing adds, aggroing the boss first not 30 seconds into the fight, resurrecting when everyone else is down rather than just standing there trying to burn a boss with puncture whilst it is on 70% or simply laying down a single group buff. Myself and the other two players (CP400 and 700, both of whom do vet dungeons routinely) all agreed they were the single worst tank we have seen. The tank was awful and almost wholly responsible for the wipe.

I'm not suggesting the tank was amazing. But that's not a fight where a good or bad tank makes much difference. The rotating fire is the main "mechanic" of that fight and the tank has no impact on that. And I highly doubt 3 adds were wiping your group (that would be a terrible group and it doesn't sound like your's was). Your healer might have been a stage 4 vampire or something so was getting burned to a crisp by that fire.

So from reading your OP that's what it sounds like to me. The fire move just caught your group by surprise and it wasn't prepared for the kind of damage it dished out.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · April 2019

You initiated a vote kick without even attempting to rectify the problem. Yeah, no real sympathy here. Karma is funny sometimes.

highkingnm · April 2019

Yes

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You initiated a vote kick without even attempting to rectify the problem. Yeah, no real sympathy here. Karma is funny sometimes.

We asked the tank to taunt the boss and adds. They ignored us on second go. It was a vet pledge. We should not even have to ask the tank to taunt the boss.

E: to be more constructive, you can rectify lack of knowledge of mechs, failure to use a particular skill which is necessary etc. You cannot rectify, in a vet dungeon, a tank who cannot do the most basic element of tanking. Yet we did try that. And they still didn’t do it. At what point in a vet ‘II’ dungeon does it become acceptable to kick if not then?

highkingnm · April 2019

Yes

Jeremy wrote: »

I'm not suggesting the tank was amazing. But that's not a fight where a good or bad tank makes much difference. The rotating fire is the main "mechanic" of that fight and the tank has no impact on that. And I highly doubt 3 adds were wiping your group (that would be a terrible group and it doesn't sound like your's was). Your healer might have been a stage 4 vampire or something so was getting burned to a crisp by that fire.

So from reading your OP that's what it sounds like to me. The fire move just caught your group by surprise and it wasn't prepared for the kind of damage it dished out.

Definitely way more than three adds, much more like 10. Which we could have killed quickly had the tank aggroed ANY of them other than the one closest to him.

Jeremy · April 2019

highkingnm wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I'm not suggesting the tank was amazing. But that's not a fight where a good or bad tank makes much difference. The rotating fire is the main "mechanic" of that fight and the tank has no impact on that. And I highly doubt 3 adds were wiping your group (that would be a terrible group and it doesn't sound like your's was). Your healer might have been a stage 4 vampire or something so was getting burned to a crisp by that fire.

So from reading your OP that's what it sounds like to me. The fire move just caught your group by surprise and it wasn't prepared for the kind of damage it dished out.

Definitely way more than three adds, much more like 10. Which we could have killed quickly had the tank aggroed ANY of them other than the one closest to him.

If it was like 10 adds then we are back to my original suspicion. There is a group of adds laying on the ground right before the boss that need to be dealt with first - otherwise they will ambush the group during the boss fight. So that's what was wiping your group. It wasn't the fact you had a bad tank.

It's an easy mistake and a lot of groups make it.

highkingnm · April 2019

Yes

Jeremy wrote: »

l

If it was like 10 adds then we are back to my original suspicion. There is a group of adds laying on the ground right before the boss that need to be dealt with first - otherwise they will ambush the group during the boss fight. So that's what was wiping your group. It wasn't the fact you had a bad tank.

It's an easy mistake and a lot of groups make it.

And then I have to go back to my earlier point that they literally taunted one thing at a time. What part are you missing? The part where I reiterate they had no prioritisation, taunted one thing at once, used no buffs, ignored us or something else?

Also, that was the second trash pack we cleared. These adds came from the side of the boss.

Jeremy · April 2019

highkingnm wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

l

If it was like 10 adds then we are back to my original suspicion. There is a group of adds laying on the ground right before the boss that need to be dealt with first - otherwise they will ambush the group during the boss fight. So that's what was wiping your group. It wasn't the fact you had a bad tank.

It's an easy mistake and a lot of groups make it.

And then I have to go back to my earlier point that they literally taunted one thing at a time. What part are you missing? The part where I reiterate they had no prioritisation, taunted one thing at once, used no buffs, ignored us or something else?

Also, that was the second trash pack we cleared. These adds came from the side of the boss.

There is no way for a tank to quickly taunt 10 adds. A tank has to taunt one thing at a time on this game. Tanks do not have access to area taunts on this game. So you are expecting your tank to do things that are impossible - which even the best tank in the game could not do.

Your group neglected to deal with the group of adds laying down (they are easy to miss, so it's an understandable mistake) before engaging the boss. That's what lead to your wipe and caused you to become overwhelmed by adds. It wasn't the fact the tank was literally taunting one thing at a time...which is what all tanks literally do on this game.

highkingnm · April 2019

Yes

Jeremy wrote: »

There is no way for a tank to quickly taunt 10 adds. A tank has to taunt one thing at a time on this game. Tanks do not have access to area taunts on this game. So you are expecting your tank to do things that are impossible - which even the best tank in the game could not do.

Your group neglected to deal with the group of adds laying down before engaging the boss. That's what lead to your wipe and caused you to become overwhelmed by adds. It wasn't the fact the tank was taunting on thing at a time...

You seem to have misunderstood me. I know tanks can only taunt one thing THEN another but you can hold multiple taunts and need to. He did not. He would hold one taunt at once and would not prioritise. It is hard to burn down a trash pack when they can go anywhere and the tank won’t take them even when you bring them towards him.

I have tanked vet HM trials as main and off tank, please stop explaining tanking 101 to me. I don’t just hold one add then let the others go wild, I hold multiple. I know how to tank. I therefore know they were an incompetent tank. I am not expecting AoE taunts, I expect them to taunt one thing and then another one or two things so they hold multiple things. I do not get why this is apparently a lofty expectation for a CP500 tank queuing for a vet dungeon.

Wolfkeks · April 2019

Other/nuance

I think if ZOS tries to implement such a system the group finder will be even more broken than before

For sure they will break something in the process

Jeremy · April 2019

highkingnm wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

There is no way for a tank to quickly taunt 10 adds. A tank has to taunt one thing at a time on this game. Tanks do not have access to area taunts on this game. So you are expecting your tank to do things that are impossible - which even the best tank in the game could not do.

Your group neglected to deal with the group of adds laying down before engaging the boss. That's what lead to your wipe and caused you to become overwhelmed by adds. It wasn't the fact the tank was taunting on thing at a time...

You seem to have misunderstood me. I know tanks can only taunt one thing THEN another but you can hold multiple taunts and need to. He did not. He would hold one taunt at once and would not prioritise. It is hard to burn down a trash pack when they can go anywhere and the tank won’t take them even when you bring them towards him.

I have tanked vet HM trials as main and off tank, please stop explaining tanking 101 to me. I don’t just hold one add then let the others go wild, I hold multiple. I know how to tank. I therefore know they were an incompetent tank. I am not expecting AoE taunts, I expect them to taunt one thing and then another one or two things so they hold multiple things. I do not get why this is apparently a lofty expectation for a CP500 tank queuing for a vet dungeon.

Well it was the way you worded it that lead me to say that.

In any case: If you had ten adds on that fight it was because you skipped the group laying down before you engaged the boss. Whether he was a bad or good tank is irrelevant to that point. Any tank would struggle with trying to control ten adds plus a boss - especially if he did not have access to crowd control abilities. You are expecting way too much from your pug tanks if you are expecting them to be able to do that.

highkingnm · April 2019

Yes

Jeremy wrote: »

Well it was the way you worded it that lead me to say that.

In any case: If you had ten adds on that fight it was because you skipped the group laying down before you engaged the boss. Whether he was a bad or good tank is irrelevant to that point. Any tank would struggle with trying to control ten adds plus a boss - especially if he did not have access to crown control abilities. You are expecting way too much from your pug tanks if you are expecting them to be able to do that.

A tank who only holds one add at once during a boss fight or just the boss is not a good tank. Yes any tank would struggle with 10 adds, but they should take at least 1 or 2 in addition to the boss. Also, the adds come from the ramp behind the boss. I have done it so many damned times, I know where the adds are from and there are 4/5 on the ramp and 4/5 with the boss AFTER the trash pack.

And if he did not have access to CC abilities why was he doing a vet pledge. I should expect a vet pledge tank to have access to the most basic parts of a tanks toolkit. If it was a normal dungeon with a Level 30 or something I’d be fine but this was a vet pledge. I should expect a tank to have crowd control. If a tank is not yet advanced enough to have a CC ability then they should not be in a vet dungeon. Period.

Jeremy · April 2019

highkingnm wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Well it was the way you worded it that lead me to say that.

In any case: If you had ten adds on that fight it was because you skipped the group laying down before you engaged the boss. Whether he was a bad or good tank is irrelevant to that point. Any tank would struggle with trying to control ten adds plus a boss - especially if he did not have access to crown control abilities. You are expecting way too much from your pug tanks if you are expecting them to be able to do that.

A tank who only holds one add at once during a boss fight or just the boss is not a good tank. Yes any tank would struggle with 10 adds, but they should take at least 1 or 2 in addition to the boss. Also, the adds come from the ramp behind the boss. I have done it so many damned times, I know where the adds are from and there are 4/5 on the ramp and 4/5 with the boss AFTER the trash pack.

And if he did not have access to CC abilities why was he doing a vet pledge. I should expect a vet pledge tank to have access to the most basic parts of a tanks toolkit. If it was a normal dungeon with a Level 30 or something I’d be fine but this was a vet pledge. I should expect a tank to have crowd control. If a tank is not yet advanced enough to have a CC ability then they should not be in a vet dungeon. Period.

You're missing the broader point. If you had 10 adds on you plus a boss spewing your group with fire I really doubt it would have mattered much if the tank had picked up a couple of adds. What killed your group was the fact you did not deal with the group of adds laying down before engaging the boss. If you had done that you would have had far less adds to contend with and your odds of success would have been greatly increased. Because there aren't that many adds on that boss unless you skip that group by mistake.

As far as CC ability is concerned - not all tanks are dragon knights and have massive crowd control abilities easily accessible through their took kits. So again: you are just expecting too much from your pug tanks if you expect them to all be able to crowd control a half dozen adds or more.

LIke I said: that's not a fight where tanks make much difference anyway. What makes the most difference on that fight is killing the group of adds laying down before engaging the boss and avoiding the flame ability if you do not have the defense to survive it. And neither of those factors are dependent on a tank - good or bad.

highkingnm · April 2019

Yes

Jeremy wrote: »

highkingnm wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Well it was the way you worded it that lead me to say that.

In any case: If you had ten adds on that fight it was because you skipped the group laying down before you engaged the boss. Whether he was a bad or good tank is irrelevant to that point. Any tank would struggle with trying to control ten adds plus a boss - especially if he did not have access to crown control abilities. You are expecting way too much from your pug tanks if you are expecting them to be able to do that.

A tank who only holds one add at once during a boss fight or just the boss is not a good tank. Yes any tank would struggle with 10 adds, but they should take at least 1 or 2 in addition to the boss. Also, the adds come from the ramp behind the boss. I have done it so many damned times, I know where the adds are from and there are 4/5 on the ramp and 4/5 with the boss AFTER the trash pack.

And if he did not have access to CC abilities why was he doing a vet pledge. I should expect a vet pledge tank to have access to the most basic parts of a tanks toolkit. If it was a normal dungeon with a Level 30 or something I’d be fine but this was a vet pledge. I should expect a tank to have crowd control. If a tank is not yet advanced enough to have a CC ability then they should not be in a vet dungeon. Period.

You're missing the broader point. If you had 10 adds on you plus a boss spewing your group with fire I really doubt it would have mattered much if the tank had picked up a couple of adds. What killed your group was the fact you did not deal with the group of adds laying down before engaging the boss. If you had done that you would have had far less adds to contend with and your odds of success would have been greatly increased.

As far as CC ability is concerned - not all tanks are dragon knights and have massive crowd control abilities easily accessible through their took kits. So again: you are just expecting too much from your pug tanks if you expect them to all be able to crowd control a half dozen adds or more.

LIke I said: that's not a fight where tanks make much difference anyway. What makes the most difference on that fight is killing the group of adds laying down before engaging the boss and avoiding the flame ability if you do not have the defense to survive it. And neither of those factors are dependent on a tank - good or bad.

Given you seem to have ignored me pointing out this was a vet pledge (so the tank should be competent), that we did clear that trash pack (I was there, I should know), that the tank needs to hold trash packs together to be able to clear them, there is nothing I can say to shake the fact that you are not getting this. So I give up. Keep believing that an incompetent tank who can’t hold more than one thing at once isn’t going to cause a wipe.

Jeremy · April 2019

highkingnm wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

highkingnm wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Well it was the way you worded it that lead me to say that.

In any case: If you had ten adds on that fight it was because you skipped the group laying down before you engaged the boss. Whether he was a bad or good tank is irrelevant to that point. Any tank would struggle with trying to control ten adds plus a boss - especially if he did not have access to crown control abilities. You are expecting way too much from your pug tanks if you are expecting them to be able to do that.

A tank who only holds one add at once during a boss fight or just the boss is not a good tank. Yes any tank would struggle with 10 adds, but they should take at least 1 or 2 in addition to the boss. Also, the adds come from the ramp behind the boss. I have done it so many damned times, I know where the adds are from and there are 4/5 on the ramp and 4/5 with the boss AFTER the trash pack.

And if he did not have access to CC abilities why was he doing a vet pledge. I should expect a vet pledge tank to have access to the most basic parts of a tanks toolkit. If it was a normal dungeon with a Level 30 or something I’d be fine but this was a vet pledge. I should expect a tank to have crowd control. If a tank is not yet advanced enough to have a CC ability then they should not be in a vet dungeon. Period.

You're missing the broader point. If you had 10 adds on you plus a boss spewing your group with fire I really doubt it would have mattered much if the tank had picked up a couple of adds. What killed your group was the fact you did not deal with the group of adds laying down before engaging the boss. If you had done that you would have had far less adds to contend with and your odds of success would have been greatly increased.

As far as CC ability is concerned - not all tanks are dragon knights and have massive crowd control abilities easily accessible through their took kits. So again: you are just expecting too much from your pug tanks if you expect them to all be able to crowd control a half dozen adds or more.

LIke I said: that's not a fight where tanks make much difference anyway. What makes the most difference on that fight is killing the group of adds laying down before engaging the boss and avoiding the flame ability if you do not have the defense to survive it. And neither of those factors are dependent on a tank - good or bad.

Given you seem to have ignored me pointing out this was a vet pledge (so the tank should be competent), that we did clear that trash pack (I was there, I should know), that the tank needs to hold trash packs together to be able to clear them, there is nothing I can say to shake the fact that you are not getting this. So I give up. Keep believing that an incompetent tank who can’t hold more than one thing at once isn’t going to cause a wipe.

I didn't intend to ignore it. I just missed it the first time I read it.

But there is no explanation for why you had so many adds on that boss fight unless you forgot to clear the trash pack laying down first. There just isn't that many adds on that fight unless you do that, unless my memory is just all wrong.

Sure - bad tanks can cause a wipe. I'm not disputing that general principle. But if the tank was staying alive on his own after everyone wiped with 10 adds and a boss I'd say he was pretty competent, especially by pug standards. The tank can't prevent that boss's fire move from killing the group - nor can he quickly contain 10 adds and a boss, especially if he wasn't a dragon knight. But it's fine if you want to agree to disagree at this point. If I haven't convinced you yet I doubt I will and vice-versa.

ZarkingFrued · April 2019

Yes

I mean obviously. Why would the kicked person want back in to the same group that just kicked them anyhow?

Ryknos · April 2019

No

This is counter productive. And pretty facist. Just kick the person again if he or she rejoins, I can tell you the worst thing that can happen is getting kicked and being placed in a timer and then have to wait in que again for half an hour, there goes the two hours a night you have to have fun.

Jeremy · April 2019

I'm told if you put someone on your black list it prevents them from being teamed up with you.

No idea if it that is true or not.

idk · April 2019

Other/nuance

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

You initiated a vote kick without even attempting to rectify the problem. Yeah, no real sympathy here. Karma is funny sometimes.

I do have to agree that OP sought vote kick as their main communication tool but that is their choice. Not everyone is interested in helping someone learn or improve which is better for the game, and GF, in the long run. To each their own.

However, in general the overall issue they bring up is something that needs to be address.

The issue is not someone you just removed from the group was just added back. That is GF working as it should. The real issue is GF does not use our ignore list to filter out potential matches.

If that was the case the OP would only have themselves to blame for not putting the person on ignore.

Tsar_Gekkou · April 2019

Yes

I hate when it's late at night and we get the same mongoloid fake tank/healer after we've kicked them like 3 or 4 times.