Marshall1289 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

For StamDK's worried about losing claw as a cheap spammable, you may still be able to use it by swapping between Rending Slash and Claw. It depends on how bad the delay of the dot is.

Honestly. I have a feeling Stam DoT's may be updated to last 10-12 seconds long with the delay being 2 seconds after cast to prevent spamming. This would mean you would have to use use it every OTHER ability instead.

What I think it could look like:
0.0 Light atk -> 0.1 Claw (2s delay to DoT)
1.1 Light atk -> 1.2 Rending (2s delay to DoT)
2.1 Claw DoT
2.2 light atk -> 2.3 Claw (Refresh DoT)
3.2 Rending DoT
3.3 light atk -> 3.4 Rending (Refresh DoT)

Doens't help Stam Sorc's, but I'm still holding out hope on them completely overhauling the way sorc's operate, if they don't, and there is a 2 second delay:
Rending -> Rearming Trap -> Rending -> Hurricane -> Rending -> Deadly Cloak -> Rending -> Bar swap.

This sucks because you would be recasting Hurricane and Deadly Cloak early at 12s instead of 15s.

Previous comment. I doubt they will complicate things and make DoT's hit after 2.5 seconds. If it's 1.5 seconds it means they have an awkward 10.5-12.5s duration. Most of the combat related changes have been to simplify things.

Claws already lasts about 10.5 seconds I believe, there is a passive in ardent line that increases duration of claws, noxious and standart. (Which is a filler passive but that is a discussion for another day)

While I agree that dot timers are a bit awkward, We have to keep in mind the timings are not the only thing that sets these two dots apart.

Rending is a dot with lower tooltip yet ignores resistances completely, while claws is a dot that takes them into account but comes with a stronger tooltip because each tick deals increased damage.(but because of this it has no secondary effects, just damage.)

What I'm trying to say here is that, rending will naturally shine in PvP while claws will shine in PvE. If Brian truly wants to make abilities work similarly then he needs to change bleeds into regular dots( which would finally allow them to make bleeds strong in PvE without making them ridicilous in PvP.)

Yeah I know it currently has that weird duration. My comment about the duration was speculation based on recent combat related changes and their overall vision going forward.

If there is a 1.5-2s delay to the dot, it still works for alternating like I mentioned, 2.5 is very long and doesn't seem like a wise decision for standardizing the way abilities like claw/rending behave.

Although if they go with that, it WOULD completely destroy my point about alternating dots for stam dk's as a pseudo spammable option instead of using an actual spammable. Maybe I shouldn't of said anything

To your point about the damage differences between the 2 abilities. Agreed. Bleeds are great for pvp where people stack resists, but pve, you can reach pen cap easily. Probably makes it a bit difficult for balancing purposes.

Their ''vision'' says no to using dots as spammable so that means they will make sure we can't use them as one. ZOS might be consistently inconsistent at balancing but if they don't want something, they sure will end it for good, sooner or later. And apparently claws spammable is one of those things.

In all honesty I also do not like using claws or rending as a spammable however sDK has some of the most useless class morphs in the game. Noxious is underwhelming, so is flames of oblivion.(however both are cheap dots that come with strong buffs, see the theme here? This is also partly why sDk rotation is so easy. All dots.) Claws was the only dot that I enjoyed using and now they are gonna nerf that. Obviously I am frustrated.

at the end of the day, this nerf is a good lesson to some people, never ever get too attached to anything in this game. It will eventually go away to never return again. A lesson I learned way back years ago, turns true once more.

I am just a little pissed that a PvE spec at the bottom of the pile, gets a nerf because of their said vision. But perhaps their ''vision'' is not so dim that they also see the state of noxious breath and maybe give it the polishing it deserves. That would even things out in my opinion, and well, both my PvE rotation and my PvP builds could use an ability that feels actually impactful and requires thought, instead of yet another dot to stack every 10 seconds.

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

For StamDK's worried about losing claw as a cheap spammable, you may still be able to use it by swapping between Rending Slash and Claw. It depends on how bad the delay of the dot is.

Honestly. I have a feeling Stam DoT's may be updated to last 10-12 seconds long with the delay being 2 seconds after cast to prevent spamming. This would mean you would have to use use it every OTHER ability instead.

What I think it could look like:
0.0 Light atk -> 0.1 Claw (2s delay to DoT)
1.1 Light atk -> 1.2 Rending (2s delay to DoT)
2.1 Claw DoT
2.2 light atk -> 2.3 Claw (Refresh DoT)
3.2 Rending DoT
3.3 light atk -> 3.4 Rending (Refresh DoT)

Doens't help Stam Sorc's, but I'm still holding out hope on them completely overhauling the way sorc's operate, if they don't, and there is a 2 second delay:
Rending -> Rearming Trap -> Rending -> Hurricane -> Rending -> Deadly Cloak -> Rending -> Bar swap.

This sucks because you would be recasting Hurricane and Deadly Cloak early at 12s instead of 15s.

Previous comment. I doubt they will complicate things and make DoT's hit after 2.5 seconds. If it's 1.5 seconds it means they have an awkward 10.5-12.5s duration. Most of the combat related changes have been to simplify things.

Claws already lasts about 10.5 seconds I believe, there is a passive in ardent line that increases duration of claws, noxious and standart. (Which is a filler passive but that is a discussion for another day)

While I agree that dot timers are a bit awkward, We have to keep in mind the timings are not the only thing that sets these two dots apart.

Rending is a dot with lower tooltip yet ignores resistances completely, while claws is a dot that takes them into account but comes with a stronger tooltip because each tick deals increased damage.(but because of this it has no secondary effects, just damage.)

What I'm trying to say here is that, rending will naturally shine in PvP while claws will shine in PvE. If Brian truly wants to make abilities work similarly then he needs to change bleeds into regular dots( which would finally allow them to make bleeds strong in PvE without making them ridicilous in PvP.)

Yeah I know it currently has that weird duration. My comment about the duration was speculation based on recent combat related changes and their overall vision going forward.

If there is a 1.5-2s delay to the dot, it still works for alternating like I mentioned, 2.5 is very long and doesn't seem like a wise decision for standardizing the way abilities like claw/rending behave.

Although if they go with that, it WOULD completely destroy my point about alternating dots for stam dk's as a pseudo spammable option instead of using an actual spammable. Maybe I shouldn't of said anything

To your point about the damage differences between the 2 abilities. Agreed. Bleeds are great for pvp where people stack resists, but pve, you can reach pen cap easily. Probably makes it a bit difficult for balancing purposes.

Their ''vision'' says no to using dots as spammable so that means they will make sure we can't use them as one. ZOS might be consistently inconsistent at balancing but if they don't want something, they sure will end it for good, sooner or later. And apparently claws spammable is one of those things.

In all honesty I also do not like using claws or rending as a spammable however sDK has some of the most useless class morphs in the game. Noxious is underwhelming, so is flames of oblivion.(however both are cheap dots that come with strong buffs, see the theme here? This is also partly why sDk rotation is so easy. All dots.) Claws was the only dot that I enjoyed using and now they are gonna nerf that. Obviously I am frustrated.

at the end of the day, this nerf is a good lesson to some people, never ever get too attached to anything in this game. It will eventually go away to never return again. A lesson I learned way back years ago, turns true once more.

I am just a little pissed that a PvE spec at the bottom of the pile, gets a nerf because of their said vision. But perhaps their ''vision'' is not so dim that they also see the state of noxious breath and maybe give it the polishing it deserves. That would even things out in my opinion, and well, both my PvE rotation and my PvP builds could use an ability that feels actually impactful and requires thought, instead of yet another dot to stack every 10 seconds.

The current delay on claw is 0.5 s and 1.0 for rending for the DoT. Since it takes about 1.1 seconds to complete a light attack -> ability weave, both can be used as spammables currently.

By delaying the dot to 1.5 - 2.0 s they are making it so they can't be used as spammables. If you use the ability too early, you only get the direct dmg portion of the ability making it much weaker than an actual spammable like crushing weapon.

My point was if you alternate the abilities, as long as the delay isn't 2.5s or more, you get the same effect, it's just delayed slightly meaning stamDK still wouldn't need to use an actual spammable..

The only way they can combat this is to make the first tick of a dot (with direct dmg like claw, rending, pi, etc) to have a delay of at least 2.5s which I just can't see happening.

Anyway, this is just speculation and a work-around if they do what I think they will do. We should wait for full details and context.

We'll see about that when the patch hits PBE, which is very close, in the meantime all I can do is hope its a fair treatment.

There's too much DoT management in this game as it is, I sincerely hope they remove a large portion of them so rotations aren't 95% DoTs and a single direct damage ability. (Or two if it has a free cast proc or whatever.)

For instance, StamDKs:

* Bow bar mostly DoTs as usual, they're actually pretty decent as far as DoTs go.
* Main bar revolve around keeping a CLASS-BASED poison on the target as much as possible, which could come with other benefits, such as: A.) Increased Stamina regen while the Poison is on the target; B.) Increased Ultimate regen while the Poison is on the target; C.) Or something like using the ability again while the target already has the Poison causes it to explode for X% damage or something.

You know, actual engaging combat, rather than "MOAR DOTS AS FAST AS POSSIBLE".

Just an idea.