ACCC Complaint 219402

Androconium · April 2019

Zenimax Australia promotes the massively-multiplayer online (MMO) video game entertainment package entitled "Elder Scrolls Online"

In the past week they have introduced a login queueing system to limit the number of concurrent players that can access their "PC-EU" megaserver.

My purchased products include:
An initial one-off cost for basic game play software "the game".
A six-month subscription for access to downloadable content (DLC) and other game play elements as defined in the ESO Plus subscription.

The product is no longer fit-for-pupose.

I am not seeking compensation; I am seeking an immediate remedy to the login queueing restriction, that by Zenimax' own comments, is to limit the number of concurrent players, which is in direct contrast to the concept of "MMO". Players located around the world should be able to login at any time and compete successfully with each other.

This is now not possible.

The current increase in player volume is the result of promotional activity in 2019, that has seen new customers overloading an unprepared system, a system that has had ongoing stability problems for the past 24 months.

Put bluntly, they have expended effort on attracting new business, without first ensuring that existing business could be provided with a fit-for-purpose and stable product.

(If I have represented something incorrectly, please identify the issue and I will amend the complaint)

Knowledge · April 2019

I think this is something you would put in a support ticket for or email Zenimax. I'm not sure it's meant for the forums but I could be wrong.

MartiniDaniels · April 2019

Oh my, situation was brewing for some month years and finally exploded! Let's hope we can get some new servers now

Banana · April 2019

Money is always first. WIll have to wait and see if the new server capacity in a couple weeks makes any difference.

DisgracefulMind · April 2019

They already published an official update and time-frame in which they expect to have improved the situation. What more do you want? Someone to snap their fingers and fix an issue they didn't even expect to have in the first place? I know ZoS messes up a lot of stuff, but at least they're communicating with this one. Chill.

Imperial_Voice · April 2019

Androconium wrote: »

Zenimax Australia promotes the massively-multiplayer online (MMO) video game entertainment package entitled "Elder Scrolls Online"

In the past week they have introduced a login queueing system to limit the number of concurrent players that can access their "PC-EU" megaserver.

My purchased products include:
An initial one-off cost for basic game play software "the game".
A six-month subscription for access to downloadable content (DLC) and other game play elements as defined in the ESO Plus subscription.

The product is no longer fit-for-pupose.

I am not seeking compensation; I am seeking an immediate remedy to the login queueing restriction, that by Zenimax' own comments, is to limit the number of concurrent players, which is in direct contrast to the concept of "MMO". Players located around the world should be able to login at any time and compete successfully with each other.

This is now not possible.

The current increase in player volume is the result of promotional activity in 2019, that has seen new customers overloading an unprepared system, a system that has had ongoing stability problems for the past 24 months.

Put bluntly, they have expended effort on attracting new business, without first ensuring that existing business could be provided with a fit-for-purpose and stable product.

(If I have represented something incorrectly, please identify the issue and I will amend the complaint)

I think id be ashamed of myself for posting something like this

Androconium · April 2019

My rights

This is now a formally lodged complaint with the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.
The reference number is in the title.

Cerra · April 2019

Somehow I don't think they guarantee 100% availability of the servers. They do go down from time to time for updates and other things, and this is just part of it.

Good luck with your legal complaint.

SilverIce58 · April 2019

What are you going to do? Sue them? Good luck with that.

thedovahmon · April 2019

It's one thing to complain. But people that take things this far like you are just completely insufferable.

Chicharron · April 2019

The Elders tell of a young ball much like you. He bounced three meters in the air. Then he bounced 1.8 meters in the air. Then... he bounced four meters in the air...

thedovahmon · April 2019

Chicharron wrote: »

The Elders tell of a young ball much like you. He bounced three meters in the air. Then he bounced 1.8 meters in the air. Then... he bounced four meters in the air...

What happened next?

Imperial_Voice · April 2019

Androconium wrote: »

My rights

This is now a formally lodged complaint with the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.
The reference number is in the title.

Ill pay you 100K in game gold to post their response.

Ratzkifal · April 2019

Pretty sure you have no right to anything because you can still access the PC NA server just fine. The law doesn't care about your characters, because you don't own them and your ESO+ is also active on NA and your crowns are shared across both servers but you are at fault for spending them unevenly.

ZOS would probably even be within their rights to shut down EU completely without compensation as you can still play and pay. You agreed to their ToU and are aware that everything you "buy" ingame is not actually your property.

Ratzkifal · April 2019

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

My rights

This is now a formally lodged complaint with the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.
The reference number is in the title.

Ill pay you 100K in game gold to post their response.

@Imperial_Voice This is now a legally binding contract! *stamps the screen*

TequilaFire · April 2019

They will have done the server upgrade before that complaint will even be looked at thus remedying the situation.

MartiniDaniels · April 2019

Imperial_Voice wrote: »

Androconium wrote: »

Zenimax Australia promotes the massively-multiplayer online (MMO) video game entertainment package entitled "Elder Scrolls Online"

In the past week they have introduced a login queueing system to limit the number of concurrent players that can access their "PC-EU" megaserver.

My purchased products include:
An initial one-off cost for basic game play software "the game".
A six-month subscription for access to downloadable content (DLC) and other game play elements as defined in the ESO Plus subscription.

The product is no longer fit-for-pupose.

I am not seeking compensation; I am seeking an immediate remedy to the login queueing restriction, that by Zenimax' own comments, is to limit the number of concurrent players, which is in direct contrast to the concept of "MMO". Players located around the world should be able to login at any time and compete successfully with each other.

This is now not possible.

The current increase in player volume is the result of promotional activity in 2019, that has seen new customers overloading an unprepared system, a system that has had ongoing stability problems for the past 24 months.

Put bluntly, they have expended effort on attracting new business, without first ensuring that existing business could be provided with a fit-for-purpose and stable product.

(If I have represented something incorrectly, please identify the issue and I will amend the complaint)

I think id be ashamed of myself for posting something like this

You'll be facing P2W loot-boxes everywhere in every store on the market if not similar mass reaction to Battlefront2. I worked in service provider for several years as engineer responsible for equipment extension. You don't believe but 1000 of written complaints motivate management to provide budget for new hardware much faster then servers performance graphs etc...

idk · April 2019

First, I am pretty sure Zos is well within their rights. A company like Zenimax, the parent company, probably has lawyers on staff and pretty sure a major change like this, made while Zos works on the long term remedy, was reviewed by attorneys.

I would also expect they have an attorney that understands the ACCC and any related AUS laws (and EU laws) that are relevant and probably a lost more so than OP.

With that I am doubting OP consulted attorneys in any nation. It is great that OP lodged a formal complaint. While I doubt it goes anywhere that affects Zos or ESO, we should never be afraid to lodge a formal complaint even when we do not fully understand the relevant issues.

Good luck.

Kikke · April 2019

It's an MMO, all MMO's have downtime. And any MMO gets login queue when sudden popularity appears. As upgrading server capacities is costly and takes some time.

"Why have they not fixed it earlier?" - Well, there has not been a reason for it to be frank. Yes there have been a lot of players at chapter or DLC releases, but it dabs of quickly. But now with sudden rise in active player count the reasons have arisen and they are working on it.

All this entitled drama with "MMOs ARE SUPPOSED TO BE 24H SERVICE!" bullcrap, and the constant whining about login queues that actually helps keeping the servers stable as the situation gets fixed...

I'd rather take a 15min queue, knowing the game had a active player count and that the server wont choke, then playing with constant lags, disconnects, overpopulation as not enough hives could be made due to lack of servers etc etc etc.

MJallday · April 2019

If you can find anywhere in your contract with ZOS that states you’ll have complete access to the game at all times then I’ll give you 1m in ingame gold

Until then, pipe down and suck it up buttercup

MashmalloMan · April 2019

Androconium wrote: »

The product is no longer fit-for-pupose.

I am not seeking compensation; I am seeking an immediate remedy to the login queueing restriction, that by Zenimax' own comments, is to limit the number of concurrent players, which is in direct contrast to the concept of "MMO". Players located around the world should be able to login at any time and compete successfully with each other.

Why? Tons of MMO's have login caps and queues. This is temporary while they increase server size to handle the load.

How does Massive Multiplayer Online with a player cap =/= MMO?

As others mentioned, they released a statement. If your "expecting" an immediate fix, keep waiting.

You also realize there is a player cap for a reason. They resorted to this because if they didn't the experience for all the players past what the server could handle would cause severe server instability potentially resulting in a server wide crash.

Games do this all the time. (Usually at the launch of a game where player activity is at an all time high)

Good luck with your endeavors. /s

Ratzkifal · April 2019

Androconium wrote: »

I have nil thoughts on this issue.

Bethesda will not make a sale from me on this or any other product.

@Androconium Seeing how you wrote this in one thread I made, which left me confused if by "this" you meant ESO or TES6 but ultimately let to me brushing it off as unimportant, I have to come back again and do ask you for clarification.

You said Bethesda, but are you aware that The Elder Scrolls Online is not made by Bethesda Game Studios? I sure hope you complained about the right company, because ESO is made by Zenimax Online Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks, which is owned by Zenimax Media. So who did you end up complaining about?
In relation to the other thread, TES6 will be made by Bethesda Game Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks.

theyancey · April 2019

You agreed with TOS upon starting the game. Deal with it.

Mathius_Mordred · April 2019

Wow, this is a real first world problem here, isn't it!

ESO is an amazing game and is extremely popular, you should be pleased that the need for a login queue shows how popular it has become, exceeding expectations and therefore capacity. The boss has written to us and apologised whilst explaining what they plan to do about it. Your complaint will get a cut and paste reply and the original will be filed so far down the priority list or put into the "you're having a laugh mate" folder that it will amount to absolutely nothing.

redspecter23 · April 2019

One day, the servers will shut down for real and permanently. What happens to all the money you've put into the game at that point? It will be gone in an instant. There is no investment in a game like this, at least no long term investment. I play under the assumption that this game could be gone in a year. $200 pixel house? Nope. $50 pixel mount? Nope. ZOS is well within their rights to shut down at any time for any reason regardless of how much money players have put into the game. We as players are welcome to either play or move on. You of course have the right to file a complaint. I'm just not sure it will do anything.

nud3_voxel · April 2019

So you made a complaint so they would work on a fix... when they clearly communicated that they are working on a fix. You sound French (and this is coming from a frenchman.)

Caligamy_ESO · April 2019

Section 6: AVAILABILITY OF SERVICES AND CONTENT; GAME MAINTENANCE, PATCHES, UPDATES; TERMINATION OF SERVICES

ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or all geographic locations, at any given time, or that ZeniMax will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time. Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You. ZeniMax also reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Content, and to limit or block any request to acquire Content, including, but not limited to, Downloadable Content and Game Mods, for any reason.

Pretty standard Terms of Service agreement I've seen in just about every MMO I have ever played. You do not have any guarantee to services, at any time.

WatchYourSixx · April 2019

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service#_EN_Toc_06

ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or all geographic locations, at any given time, or that ZeniMax will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time. Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You. ZeniMax also reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Content, and to limit or block any request to acquire Content, including, but not limited to, Downloadable Content and Game Mods, for any reason.

Highlighted the important part for you

Zavijah · April 2019

I actually love this post.

By operating an office in the Australian territory, it doesn't matter what Terms of Service ZOS outlines - if they can't actually provide the service then they need to cease offering the product as marketable.

Our laws and operating an office here override the caveats of the product provider, on a reasonable basis. Which I'm more than confident that there are enough case examples floating around to demonstrate service is not reasonable.

A seperate but relevant point is that Akamai is not disclosed as impacting product service dleivery; it directly impacts performance through routing through Europe, to America - artificially inflating response time in game and was ONLY added after games launch, without a change in description to sold product.

And the best part? ... This thread cannot be locked down; as another part of operating an office in Australia means you need to provide a platform for clients to clearly and visibly contact product provider, where it is known they will respond.

I've taken the liberty also of recording original post and subsequent responses should any forum moderators be unaware of requirements for Australian consumer law.

Verbal_Earthworm · April 2019

I'd just like to wish the OP luck.

Things need shaking up around here.

Wuuffyy · April 2019

Down with the developers tyranny!