Skwor wrote: »

And again having mained a Templar since beta I just can't see why this change is causing such a big deal.

I have a max DK and this is no where near a nerf many are trying to make it out as

People love drama.
Makes me feel like I'm not human at times.

@Tan9oSuccka
Lol mate umm I've been playing this game longer than you most likely (since before ICP was introduced during the days Standard of might had a 50% defile) and most definitely have more AvA kills then you/gotten emperor more times than you as well.
If you've got over 70k AvA kills as a Stam DK (Solo) & gotten Emp I believe it's either 10-12 times (Solo) then you got me beat but I'd refrain from making an assumption about why I'm against this.

I'm against this because it's an unnecessary nerf to a class built on short ranged combat. I've even suggested for you cry babies to allow cripple grasp be un-reflect-able since you guys can't seem to oh I don't know use your brain and strategize how to combat someone using wings.
I strategize how to fight a NB who spams cloak, a sorc who spam that crystal soft cc, a templar who continually has their circle on the ground slowing me, etc; Why can't you guys do the same thing... it's because you want everything handed to you.

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Tan9oSuccka
Lol mate umm I've been playing this game longer than you most likely (since before ICP was introduced during the days Standard of might had a 50% defile) and most definitely have more AvA kills then you/gotten emperor more times than you as well.
If you've got over 70k AvA kills as a Stam DK (Solo) & gotten Emp I believe it's either 10-12 times (Solo) then you got me beat but I'd refrain from making an assumption about why I'm against this.

I'm against this because it's an unnecessary nerf to a class built on short ranged combat. I've even suggested for you cry babies to allow cripple grasp be un-reflect-able since you guys can't seem to oh I don't know use your brain and strategize how to combat someone using wings.
I strategize how to fight a NB who spams cloak, a sorc who spam that crystal soft cc, a templar who continually has their circle on the ground slowing me, etc; Why can't you guys do the same thing... it's because you want everything handed to you.

I think you might have your wires twisted. Or are confused with another poster. Also, My join date is before yours. (Oops on you)

I also disagree with changing wings.

I main a Stam DK since PS4 launch at midnight launch June of 2015. I’ve seen every possible change you mentioned.

As far as assuming PVP prowess, I’ve learned never to assume anything. I suggest you do the same.

The only thing kill tallies tell me is you play a lot and take it very seriously.

Unfortunately the Join date is only related to when you joined the forums, not when you began your account. I don't know when @MaxwellC began playing but they could have joined in the alpha/beta, as long as they didn't start their forum account until later their forum account won't show their starting play time.

what do wings actually reflect these days anyway ? I have been away from the game for a while and feel it's only basic attacks. I'm still getting melted by poison injection and snipe, then finished off with an execute.

JumpmanLane wrote: »

TheValar85 wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

It is kinda ridiculous that a skill exists that completely reflects light attacks from staves and bows. This game very much encourages light attack weaves, and the current version of wings 100% discourages that. At least the shield skill only does it once on magicka attacks, and the other is an ultimate.

4 projectiles 6 seconds geeze... THAT is not op and you weak ol light attacks bring it down so your stronger attacks actually hit for something.

As an aside, in the end it’s individual skill, then your build determines the outcome of most fights. You can’t nerf skill. Gain some. Get better before flooding the forums with nerf requests.

And ZOS combat team. Play your game; then, develop an objective basis for balanced. THEN encourage players to rise up to your objective standard. Please quit catering to the lowest common denominator.

When players first start the game they are unskilled. Everyone must learn and get better. Dying and crying for nerfs won’t help. You’ll still die to a more skilled player despite ZOS’s nerfs.

can you tell me why didnt you made the same post when it came to the sorc nerfs as well? :d becasue what you say in defence of the DK's it amazingly true for both DK and Sorcerers as well. And on that note i agree with you.

I bet somewhere I DID. If I EVER said nerf Sorc I was joking. I don’t believe nerfing ANYTHING to cater to the worst players out there, (new players and casual players in particular) is the proper route to “balancing” the game.

Sure, inexperienced players are the majority. ZOS should devote more time to tutorials or something, encourage dueling or SOMETHING so inexperienced players can improve.

All ZOS seems to do is encourage grouping and zerging in Cyrodiil and nerfing skills down to the 70% of players out there.

A guy once told me this: “build your builds to kill 70% of the players out there. The other 30% are skilled players; so develop your own skill and try to outskill them. Remember, there’s always gonna be something out there you just can’t beat. Crying for nerfs won’t fix that. Unless you get better, the top 30% of players in the game will always outskill you, no matter what ZOS nerfs.”

The best players in the game can kill the bottom 70% naked with a broom lol. Definitely naked with just weapons and jewelry.

#nerfskill! And good luck with that.

I agree with you completly my friend. Sorcerers nerf was completly usless steps from ZOS including this one with DK's.

@Tan9oSuccka
Maybe I @'d the wrong person so, sorry if that's the case thought you claimed I had not played the DK class because I suggested the changes to wings was stupid and an unnecessary nerf to a class that is heavily focused on close range combat e.g Mag DK skills/Stam DK skills (most Stam DKs off-load their entire bar to weapon line skills which are way more close ranged weapons).

I've been playing since PC and only joined forums since 2015? Like I stated I've played this game when Standard of might had it's 50% defile which was before console even launched since it never launched with it to begin with. My first time playing this game was when my friend showed me Flames of Oblivion AoE and it was one of the main reasons why I played a DK and have only played a DK since 2014.

@brandonv516
Just saying mate sorry if the words you bolded got you irritated but literally on the forums arguging against this change is me and other level headed people while the majority of the time it's people who state they're playing a Mag NB and can't kill a Mag DK.
Just look at the PTS/Combat/ heck even my forum discussion about this; so of course I'm fed up with Mag NBs telling me they want wings nerfed because they can't kill a Mag DK easily when we Stam DKs use the damn skill too; not only when you guys have so many options to disengage/debuff targets at will.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

It is kinda ridiculous that a skill exists that completely reflects light attacks from staves and bows. This game very much encourages light attack weaves, and the current version of wings 100% discourages that. At least the shield skill only does it once on magicka attacks, and the other is an ultimate.

Depending on the Situation wings actually encourage weaving to make them drop faster so that the dk either has to recast quicker or he might miss one recast and is fully vulnerable to stronger projectiles.
Ofc if you are a melee stamblade with an ice staff you might not want to weave or if you are a pure ranged build which only has reflectable light attacks and absolutely Nothing else that can be reflected.
If you are a templar that runs total dark wings actually encourage you to weave to use the dks defense against him as much as you can before he cc breaks.
So weaving not being encouraged depends on the Situation you find yourself in, your build, class etc., if you know wings is bugged and want to abuse said bug and other factors.

This also adds a dynamic component to pvp Encounters, so you are not encouraged to Always use the exact same strategy regardless of Opponent, just like absorb magic might encourage you to try avoiding throwing a projectile or light attack at it so your target does not get healed.

I dont recommend taking this advice. Risking killing yourself on the DK in case he may have missed puting wings up is not an incentive to LA weave. The last thing you want to do is damage yourself whilst being pressured by a dk....

The templar skill gimmick is very niche and still hurts the templar. I suspect the change would benefit DKs in this instance provided they fix it...

this change is welcome imo, at least now will be possible to proc enchants and proc sets ranged vs wing-spammers.

I started this game less than a year ago and my magdk has been nerfed more than a few times.. some by blanket adjustments and some directly. They may not be huge but they add up. Range reduction to meele range, shied nerfs, reduced flame damage through race adjustments. Dot adjustments (searing) and wing changes will now take away even more survivability... wings are particularly useful for a class that already struggles in vMA and it will just push new players away. This change will obviously only help people that can 1vx and is the definition of balancing for the 1%. It’s a skill that, where it is useful, gives great survivability and and damage for a small time. And now if it just becomes a niche reduction skill for people soloing zergs then you are moving in the wrong direction. I don’t know why but balance lately feels less like balance but just cutting off the head of what is useful and momogonizing the classes to be less unique. I don’t even play pvp and use this skill because it is very useful for ranges targets (which for some reason do much more damage than short ranged ones). Please no more MagDK changes because that benefit only the 1%.

I understand that some people are frustrated with wings and are happy with a change, but it is not the right one. The only thing that ZOS would be doing is take away yet another mechanic, reducing the strengths/weaknesses of classes and thus destroying their identities even more. We've seen what such a direction can do with WoW and I don't wish that for ESO.

There are already a lot of interesting suggestions that would keep the ability and class's uniqueness, like only reflecting projectiles from 14+ meters, increasing the magicka cost, or limiting the number of projectiles reflected to 2 per enemy. Making more MagNB abilities go through wings would also be a good idea as they're really the only class that gets shut down by it.

I don't expect people to stop complaining about wings, but I wish you guys were a little less selfish and would realize that taking mechanics away from the game doesn't benefit anyone. There are way better ways to make everyone happy.

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Tan9oSuccka
Maybe I @'d the wrong person so, sorry if that's the case thought you claimed I had not played the DK class because I suggested the changes to wings was stupid and an unnecessary nerf to a class that is heavily focused on close range combat e.g Mag DK skills/Stam DK skills (most Stam DKs off-load their entire bar to weapon line skills which are way more close ranged weapons).

I've been playing since PC and only joined forums since 2015? Like I stated I've played this game when Standard of might had it's 50% defile which was before console even launched since it never launched with it to begin with. My first time playing this game was when my friend showed me Flames of Oblivion AoE and it was one of the main reasons why I played a DK and have only played a DK since 2014.

@brandonv516
Just saying mate sorry if the words you bolded got you irritated but literally on the forums arguging against this change is me and other level headed people while the majority of the time it's people who state they're playing a Mag NB and can't kill a Mag DK.
Just look at the PTS/Combat/ heck even my forum discussion about this; so of course I'm fed up with Mag NBs telling me they want wings nerfed because they can't kill a Mag DK easily when we Stam DKs use the damn skill too; not only when you guys have so many options to disengage/debuff targets at will.

And all the outcry on wings started recently too. On my Stam DK I have gotten melted by MagNB's who were simply better than me. That also applies to all classes. Ever reflect a clench back at a MagDK? They're not as invincible as everyone makes them out to be. I can snare them right back with talons or fosselize. No one ever thinks that a class can also counter itself. No one ever seems to talk about it.

Aurielle wrote: »

Stop crying and adapt. I had to turn my magNB into a healer against my will because no ranged magNB skills could bypass wings, and because the only effective stamNBs are gankers (I hate ganking). Wings-spamming DKs are ubiquitous on PS4. Thanks to the upcoming changes to wings, I will actually be able to deal ranged class damage on my magNB again without having 100% of it reflected back in my face.

Actually mag nb is the class that kill me the most in pvp they apply so much ranged pressure with theyr ability to cloack and reset, that i waste half of my resouces in wing flapping.
LA spam +timed crippling and skoria meteors combo with the stun is super effective, maybe you need to l2p?
Sorry i'm not the type of guy that usually says such a thing but really wings don't negate the mag nb playstile if you know what you are doing, even i when i play my mag nb i simply count to four and apply pressure till the next flappy wings.

As long as the mitigation provided with new wings is additive with other mitigation bonuses (and not multiplicative) I am mostly fine with it. Because if they make it multiplicative it will be 40% projectile mitigation at most, scaling down with your increasing resistance.

The one thing I will miss the most is the immunity to dots and secondary effects tied to projectiles. I don't mind being hit by projectile for reduced damage and not reflecting it. But please keep the immunity to dots and secondary effects which come from projectiles such as Poison Injection, Shock Clench etc.