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The hypocrisy of the forums...(dk wings)
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LordTareq✭✭✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »
For any *competent* Dragonknight it will more likely be: Dodge, dodge, block, dodge, block, block, dodge....
And if there is one class that can't really complain about a simple yet effective burst rotation its DK's with the Petrify-Whip-Leap-Power Lash combo.
Edited by LordTareq on April 12, 2019 3:21PM4 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I play a magblade so run up against wings shutting me down, but I’m not sure nerfing wings is a good idea. Better to buff magblade melee so closing into melee is possible imo.
As it stands now I’m worried post-patch sorcs will be OP. With no reflections there’ll be a ranged advantage. If reflections are only removed from DKs will there still be warden and sword and board reflections? Have to wait for the patch notes to come up on PTS.Edited by Iskiab on April 12, 2019 3:22PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
What did the DK community say when every patch nerfed sorcs? I guess the word was "adapt". So we did.
Now, it's your turn
It’s like comparing an apple to a rotten, squished orange.
Sorcerers did everything well. Massive offensive output, insane defensive capabilities, excellent execute, excellent spammable, great mobility, superb hard cc, and at range as well.
DKs have....Um. Riiiiigggghhttttt.5 -
Tonnopesce✭✭✭✭✭
✭DK’s are upset they won’t be able to completely shut down entire playstyles now.
No ability in the entire game shuts down playstyles like wings does. GL if you’re a magblade, magsorc, or magden because as soon as a dk flaps its wings you’re most likely to lose. Especially if the dk can keep their wings up.
Dk’s are honestly the most annoying class to 1vx against.
Heaven forbid you’re playing solo on a magblade Magsorc or magden and 3 wing spammers fight you. Might as well sheathe your weapons.
No other ability can shut down an entire playstyle like wings can.
And before someone cries about snipe. As much as I despise snipe, it’s being nerfed so rejoice.
Yeah well too bad in the bow sill line alone there are other two hig damage ranged skills.
Wings are the only easy way to close the gap between ranged playstile and close combat, dk's dont have much of a choice close combat is our only way to go but unfortunatly most of dk's builds are slow AF, so we need a reliable way to shorten the distance without using a gap closer (that does not fit in every build btw).
The current meta is annoing and it will become worse with a full 8 seconds brainless ranged damage reduction, it will create a super tank and no one want this believe me.
Right now if a dk want to use wings expecially stamina have to choose the perfect moment to use them, with the new change we will just have a lol button to become even more tanky.
Told this i'm more for a fight choice in the right moment playstile so the wing change is a no-go for meEdited by Tonnopesce on April 12, 2019 3:37PMSignature3 -
Trinity_Is_My_Name✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am never for a nerf. Too many on the Forum whine about OP this and OP that when for the most part they got beat by a better, more experienced player. But they come here and post thread after thread of Nerfs and of course ZOS looks at all the Nerf threads and goes "Hmm...we must Nerf XYZ because PVP is not balanced!"
Down comes the Nerf Hammer. Then Players adapt (myself included) or quit (many have, I have lost a lot of Guildies and Friends over the last year of Nerfs). Those that stay on look at all the existing gear sets and of course the new sets ZOS is releasing over and over (never upsetting the "Balance" of course) and simply use their experience and creativity to create a character that works very well in PVP (or PVE).
Then the Nerf threads start all over again for the new OP class/character just created from the ashes of the Nerf threads that just caused these Players to adapt.
Balance is an Illusion.2 -
Karm1cOne✭✭✭✭✭Remember all those sorcs that cried shield changes will be the end of the class.. and that they are totally useless.... all they were gonna be good for is being mules etc etc etc.. all those oceans of salty tears...
Well... while all those loud mouths were tearing all over their keyboards making rage and quit posts... some ppl went to work... figured it out... and voila.. shield stackers are stronger than ever... and even worse that change has spawned a new breed of zoo sorcs... the most cowardly of all play styles... (you know it.. don't even try)
The wings things is one change...one of many many changes coming, which we know nothing about. No real in depth testing has been done by the player base yet. I have a stamDK too... i love watching ppl suicide on the wings.. so I don't know how I feel about this change yet.
Lets see what the changes are on a whole...
.... that was for the cast time on an active defense. Which got reverted. Sorcs who made valid arguments got listened to, then zos added the whole resists thing which is where sorcs are now. Wait for pts, make a logical argument for what you dont like, and see where that gets you.4 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭major protection = 30% damage reduction
wings = 50% against range players
If a skill feels nerfed after it got changed to something that is stronger than major protection that skill may have been way too op to begin with.
That said, i totally understand dks since reflection damage was something nice but this skill did not offer any counter play for range char and was therefore quite bad designed. It was in realistically cases a 80-90% damage reduction against range players including reflects of ccs.(1v1, 1vArmyofDKs)
While wings where no too effective if you were outnumbered since the number of reflects were just eaten really fast. In this case the change is even a buff.
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus7 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is a joke right?
first off, healing ward had nothing to do with why mnb is trash rn. Shields nerfs had everything to do with it. they only have 1 shield. 1 shield isnt viable anymore. They also dont switch to heavy well because like sorc there a burst build
also sorc is not top dog in pvp by miles. that would be stamblade and stamden2 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As a Magblade I feel the change to Wings is unfair. I felt this way for Sorcs when there was a proposed cast time for Shields.
Wings should remove snares and reflect up to 3 projectiles outside of 14m.
Inside 14m it should remove snares and reduce damage of projectiles by 25%.
Bold Edited: For compromise.
This makes it more balanced to fight a DK in CQC as a ranged fighter.Edited by brandonv516 on April 12, 2019 3:58PM5 -
Beffagorn✭✭✭This is a joke right?
first off, healing ward had nothing to do with why mnb is trash rn. Shields nerfs had everything to do with it. they only have 1 shield. 1 shield isnt viable anymore. They also dont switch to heavy well because like sorc there a burst build
also sorc is not top dog in pvp by miles. that would be stamblade and stamden
Stamblades and Stamdens (especially stamdens) might be the top classes in pvp now and there's no doubt about it, but then the magsorcs and magplars are just a small step behind. There's no insormountable power gap between those classes, no matter what some small and extremely vocal minority thinks. Acting like there is, is just stupid.
Edited by Beffagorn on April 12, 2019 3:55PM2 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is a joke right?
first off, healing ward had nothing to do with why mnb is trash rn. Shields nerfs had everything to do with it. they only have 1 shield. 1 shield isnt viable anymore. They also dont switch to heavy well because like sorc there a burst build
also sorc is not top dog in pvp by miles. that would be stamblade and stamden
Disagree. It has a lot to do with Magblade issues but there are other things to consider also.0 -
Raudgrani✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »
Maybe, but really.... Who ACTUALLY dies to Snipe all the time? Some people got really pissed off enemies, who constantly target them - specifically - with snipe or what? I know I am pretty damn hated by a lot of people, because I find myself obviously targeted (and "bagged") by certain groups of enemies. But am I being SNIPED all the time? No, I'm not. They kill me by literally any means.
I mostly play stamplar, stamDK (without wings!) and stamden (with shimmering) these days, and I frankly never die to Snipe. I don't die very much in PVP over and evening these days anyway, some 2-10 times depending on what I do really. But Snipe? Ffs... It can be on my death recap alright, but it's like 1 or 2 out of 5 other attacks at most.
BUT... What I do know is this: A lot of people do like "Fäkkin snipestackers! Scrub! One Button Billy wankers!" over group chat etc. But DID they die to snipe? NO. They did not. You could see them run into a Permafrost and get killed by multiple other attacks, no snipers in sight.
Snipe IS a convenient thing to blame when you mess up and die an embarrassing death, or simply meet someone better than you. People know you can run into this weird desync Snipe death, I do too - like once every 30 days or so (when your character go like "Uohh...." and suddenly just fall down, and you have 5 Snipe on your recap). Unless it's a desync kind of Snipe death, it's so easy to avoid. Can't see how people don't see/hear what's going on?
I learned that "farming groups" is a similar thing too. When you meet another group, and your entire group get smacked the f**k up to bits and pieces, it's called "It's a sad bunch of farmers, leave them alone".
SURE. It's the same thing there. There are dedicated groups, that coordinate certain sets and skills, who flock up and heal/build ultimate together, lure enemies into a bad spot - and coordinate ulti drops on these. But maaaany other groups are called "farmers" by others, who are just worse than the opponents.3 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nothing is OP, nothing is nerfed.
It's adjusted.
People are just PO'd because they die.
Sorry - but it happens.
Especially if you run in to somebody who's simple better at the game.
If I cried every time somebody killed me, I'd be dehydrated constantly.
BTW: I hate that dern Bear in Glenumbra. Eek!1 -
SoggyBizkit✭✭✭I agree wings is OP, I have mained a magdk since release and remember the golden days when we could reflect meteors. It's fine though we can just use our great mobility and executions to full effect now.2
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Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Can we actually test the changes before having a temper tantrum about them?
FFS PTS isn't even out yet and we don't even fully know the extent of all the changes so for all we know, DK might end up the most broken class after everything is said and done so let's stop the pointless conjecture until we have actually seen everything and tested it.Argonian forever1 -
Tonnopesce✭✭✭✭✭
✭SoggyBizkit wrote: »I agree wings is OP, I have mained a magdk since release and remember the golden days when we could reflect meteors. It's fine though we can just use our great mobility and executions to full effect now.
Reflecting meteors was hella fun...
I believe most of the playerbase we have now will ragequit if they see a pre 1.6 DK jumping on keeps and taking down the entire enemy defence alone.
DK was nerfed to the point that we are a different class from the original design.Signature5 -
Sheezabeast✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tonnopesce wrote: »SoggyBizkit wrote: »I agree wings is OP, I have mained a magdk since release and remember the golden days when we could reflect meteors. It's fine though we can just use our great mobility and executions to full effect now.
Reflecting meteors was hella fun...
I believe most of the playerbase we have now will ragequit if they see a pre 1.6 DK jumping on keeps and taking down the entire enemy defence alone.
DK was nerfed to the point that we are a different class from the original design.
I miss playing Sorc ping pong with frags
Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!3 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »
Maybe, but really.... Who ACTUALLY dies to Snipe all the time? Some people got really pissed off enemies, who constantly target them - specifically - with snipe or what? I know I am pretty damn hated by a lot of people, because I find myself obviously targeted (and "bagged") by certain groups of enemies. But am I being SNIPED all the time? No, I'm not. They kill me by literally any means.
I mostly play stamplar, stamDK (without wings!) and stamden (with shimmering) these days, and I frankly never die to Snipe. I don't die very much in PVP over and evening these days anyway, some 2-10 times depending on what I do really. But Snipe? Ffs... It can be on my death recap alright, but it's like 1 or 2 out of 5 other attacks at most.
BUT... What I do know is this: A lot of people do like "Fäkkin snipestackers! Scrub! One Button Billy wankers!" over group chat etc. But DID they die to snipe? NO. They did not. You could see them run into a Permafrost and get killed by multiple other attacks, no snipers in sight.
Snipe IS a convenient thing to blame when you mess up and die an embarrassing death, or simply meet someone better than you. People know you can run into this weird desync Snipe death, I do too - like once every 30 days or so (when your character go like "Uohh...." and suddenly just fall down, and you have 5 Snipe on your recap). Unless it's a desync kind of Snipe death, it's so easy to avoid. Can't see how people don't see/hear what's going on?
I learned that "farming groups" is a similar thing too. When you meet another group, and your entire group get smacked the f**k up to bits and pieces, it's called "It's a sad bunch of farmers, leave them alone".
SURE. It's the same thing there. There are dedicated groups, that coordinate certain sets and skills, who flock up and heal/build ultimate together, lure enemies into a bad spot - and coordinate ulti drops on these. But maaaany other groups are called "farmers" by others, who are just worse than the opponents.
In CP campaigns, never really.
In Non Cp, plus the snipe scrub is out of region....
That’s a desync waiting to happen.1 -
Vandril✭✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »
I'm a magsorc? since when did we use bows... Something I've missed?
Completely off topic, but...
Fun fact: long, long ago, long before even the One Tamriel patch, MagSorcs used to use Bows over Destruction Staves.
Back then, many weapon passives didn't require that you be using the weapon's abilities for them to take effect. If I remember correctly, the Bow passive Long Shots in particular is why many ranged Magicka classes used Bow, as the passive used to effect all ranged damage even if it weren't from a Bow ability. This, combined with the fact that Destruction Staff passives didn't give a % damage bonus anywhere and light attack damage was insignificant at the time, meant that Bows were BIS for all ranged builds.Edited by Vandril on April 12, 2019 8:44PM0 -
Canned_Apples✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »
For any *competent* Dragonknight it will more likely be: Dodge, dodge, block, dodge, block, block, dodge....
And if there is one class that can't really complain about a simple yet effective burst rotation its DK's with the Petrify-Whip-Leap-Power Lash combo.
lol. A magdk wouldn't be able to sustain all that dodging and blocking. If the snipe blade manages to get off a stun you won't be able to break free and will die before it breaks.
They'd be better off using mist form.0 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭50% damage reduction from ranged players who are at 28+ meters means that a DK cannot reach them (with the exception of one class skill, Stone Fist). A DK's tool kit needs to be adjusted so that they can engage or catch up to ranged attackers if this change is implemented.
Our source of major expedition is tied to our chains... which only reach 22 meters. There's no way that we can reach MagBlades and MagSorcs who benefit from the Reach passive in Cyrodiil.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren0 -
MaxJrFTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Any respectable, non biased dk, agrees that wings are too strong right now. It's a balance change, deal with it.BreakingBats wrote: »Well I Xv1, and the three things annoying me in cyrodiil right now are DK wing spammers, Sorc pet builds and bleed builds.
Now I'm not calling for any nerfs...just saying I wouldn't be mad if they were. 😏
FTFY
If this is him, then you just embarrassed yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSNa9mbx2R-fV7WBAm3_rcg/videosEdited by MaxJrFTW on April 12, 2019 10:20PM"I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
―Ulrich Leland, 3E 4336 -
TheValar85✭✭✭✭✭It shows crying works, keep crying maybe they will revert it.
it wont work a ton of threads was opened about the sorc shield nerf to reverse them and nothing happend at all. Same thing will happen with the DK's sadly. QQ kids will keep ruining the game and classes wich was fun to play with, cos they are so spoiled that they cant handle it when some one actualy can play with a class in higer levels. And what comes then? they shout out for nerfs. Disgusting and pathetic.GM Of The Lusty Argonian ERPGM Of THe Alessia Dynasty PVP GuildGM Of The Guardians Of MiddleEarthMy Smiling Emperor Profile Picture: https://ibb.co/bsOM6n1 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Any respectable, non biased dk, agrees that wings are too strong right now. It's a balance change, deal with it.BreakingBats wrote: »Well I Xv1, and the three things annoying me in cyrodiil right now are DK wing spammers, Sorc pet builds and bleed builds.
Now I'm not calling for any nerfs...just saying I wouldn't be mad if they were. 😏
FTFY
If this is him, then you just embarrassed yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSNa9mbx2R-fV7WBAm3_rcg/videos
Lemme get some aloe.
Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren3 -
manny254✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only problem with wings on live is that the skill is not as well telegraphed as Warden's ice shield. You can clearly see when the ice shield is active and how many charges remain. Allowing for counter play to be straightforward.
Edit: BTW mSorc and mDK are both in an amazing place for PVP right now. If you are complaining that either are weak, you need to evaluate how you are playing and focus on improving.Edited by manny254 on April 12, 2019 10:50PM- Mojican0 -
TheValar85✭✭✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »Any respectable, non biased dk, agrees that wings are too strong right now. It's a balance change, deal with it.BreakingBats wrote: »Well I Xv1, and the three things annoying me in cyrodiil right now are DK wing spammers, Sorc pet builds and bleed builds.
Now I'm not calling for any nerfs...just saying I wouldn't be mad if they were. 😏
FTFY
If this is him, then you just embarrassed yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSNa9mbx2R-fV7WBAm3_rcg/videos
Lemme get some aloe.
HAH if Asmongold is coming here to join our community ZOS better put their sheet together cos that guy is giving out a very detailed point of views, critics, and so on AND ofc becasue he would stream the whole thing including game plays, by that effect he coudl lure alot of players into this game as well. not that this game is havving strugle or something but the more player or community meber we have the more fun will we get withe achother. :P GM Of The Lusty Argonian ERPGM Of THe Alessia Dynasty PVP GuildGM Of The Guardians Of MiddleEarthMy Smiling Emperor Profile Picture: https://ibb.co/bsOM6n0 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »It is kinda ridiculous that a skill exists that completely reflects light attacks from staves and bows. This game very much encourages light attack weaves, and the current version of wings 100% discourages that. At least the shield skill only does it once on magicka attacks, and the other is an ultimate.
4 projectiles 6 seconds geeze... THAT is not op and your weak ol light attacks bring it down so your stronger attacks actually hit for something.
As an aside, in the end it’s individual skill, then your build that determines the outcome of most fights. You can’t nerf skill. Gain some. Get better before flooding the forums with nerf requests.
And ZOS combat team. Play your game; then, develop an objective basis for balance. THEN encourage players to rise up to your objective standard. Please quit catering to the lowest common denominator.
When players first start the game they are unskilled. Everyone must learn and get better. Dying and crying for nerfs won’t help. You’ll still die to a more skilled player despite ZOS’s nerfs.Edited by JumpmanLane on April 12, 2019 11:03PM3 -
TheValar85✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »It is kinda ridiculous that a skill exists that completely reflects light attacks from staves and bows. This game very much encourages light attack weaves, and the current version of wings 100% discourages that. At least the shield skill only does it once on magicka attacks, and the other is an ultimate.
4 projectiles 6 seconds geeze... THAT is not op and you weak ol light attacks bring it down so your stronger attacks actually hit for something.
As an aside, in the end it’s individual skill, then your build determines the outcome of most fights. You can’t nerf skill. Gain some. Get better before flooding the forums with nerf requests.
And ZOS combat team. Play your game; then, develop an objective basis for balanced. THEN encourage players to rise up to your objective standard. Please quit catering to the lowest common denominator.
When players first start the game they are unskilled. Everyone must learn and get better. Dying and crying for nerfs won’t help. You’ll still die to a more skilled player despite ZOS’s nerfs.
can you tell me why didnt you made the same post when it came to the sorc nerfs as well? :d becasue what you say in defence of the DK's it amazingly true for both DK and Sorcerers as well. And on that note i agree with you. GM Of The Lusty Argonian ERPGM Of THe Alessia Dynasty PVP GuildGM Of The Guardians Of MiddleEarthMy Smiling Emperor Profile Picture: https://ibb.co/bsOM6n0