Why is it so hard to find people to run veteran dlc dungeons?
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leeux✭✭✭✭✭I don't normally bother with DLC dungeons myself... unless with guildies or friends, and even then, only when they ask to fill a group and only if they don't have anyone better
And before I accept to join, I make a point to signal that I don't know the fights, and it will take a few tries (often several) to learn them... and yeah, I'm slow to learn mechanics because it's hard to understand everything from what someone explains to you, first try... it normally takes me several deaths, often wipes depending on group and fight, until the mechanics "click" with me and I understand them.
Once I learn the fights I can do them and not die at all, it's just the initial learning process is a pain for me... and stressful, so I avoid that, and it's specially worse with a group of strangers.
But it's a vicious circle, as the more you wait the more difficult is to justify "Why haven't you learned them yet?!"
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Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »From what i see they aren't really popular in part due to the difficulity
Completion rate are low
here is the % of ps4 player who got the psn trophies for the vet dlc
complete botn SotH =0.5%
Complete both Db= 0.2%
Complete both HotR=0.1%
Complete both Wrathsone =0.1%
They really are giving Half of the year dlc to that percentage of the plyer base
Edited to ad completion %
That post is delusional on so many levels it's almost laughable.1 -
MattT1988✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »From what i see they aren't really popular in part due to the difficulity
Completion rate are low
here is the % of ps4 player who got the psn trophies for the vet dlc
complete botn SotH =0.5%
Complete both Db= 0.2%
Complete both HotR=0.1%
Complete both Wrathsone =0.1%
They really are giving Half of the year dlc to that percentage of the plyer base
Edited to ad completion %
Those numbers are very misleading as it includes EVERYBODY who has logged into the game, including folks who played during the free weekends, people who tried the game for a week, didn’t like it and traded it in. It’s not very fair to include players like that in statistics like this.4 -
wishlist14✭✭✭✭✭
✭As long as the 1% is happy . Zos logic. Ok sorry zos....but when it comes to dungeon and trials content it seems that way. I stll love eso lol but i have to be honest. All other eso content is fabulous except some pvp issues but they do work on things constantly .Edited by wishlist14 on April 12, 2019 7:55AM0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Because DLC dungeons feel cheesy. Their difficulty level is based solely on mechanics, that (lets be honest here) is not intuetive, and they feel cheep. Often those are one - shot mechanics (especially on vet) that even tanks could not survive.
Also imho the rewards for completing those dungeons are not beneficial enough to justify doing them. Add RNG gear factor to it and... well I am not surpised not people are doing them.
If ZOS would make a totall overhaul on DLC dungeons "difficulty" (yes, I have put that in "quotes" for a reason) then I am sure more people would do those dungeons.3 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Becaise zos decided to make dlc dungeons atleast most of them only so damn hard only like 10% of the population can do it. Now add in the another 80% of the group finder population that mains double bows in light armor claiming to be the tank or healer and you got a vet dlc group doomed from the start... the last 10% knows that when they queue their gonna get the 80% who can't play and just don't queue..2 -
notyuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You want to know why? i'll give you a little list
1: Vet DLC dungeons are not just hard, they are uncomfortbly hard
2: not everybody owns the dlc
3: the worm wizard personaility comes from doing nodeath/speedrun/hm...in one of the dragonbone dungeons, which are full on bs tier diffcuility
4: those that can do it have already done it and have no desire to subject themsevles to such hell again4 -
AbysmalGhul✭✭✭✭✭
✭You want to know why? i'll give you a little list
1: Vet DLC dungeons are not just hard, they are uncomfortbly hard
They take practice.
2: not everybody owns the dlc
True
3: the worm wizard personaility comes from doing nodeath/speedrun/hm...in one of the dragonbone dungeons, which are full on bs tier diffcuility
It's not that bad to earn skins and personalities. Again, it takes practice.
4: those that can do it have already done it and have no desire to subject themsevles to such hell again
I help all of the time. Most end game players are pretty nice and are willing to help. They even might make your goals a reality because they are comfortable running the content.
@Matthew_Galvanus TC, the best thing you could do is join a guild and get slowly acquainted with like minded people that have the same goals as you do. Finding a main team takes time. You almost have to audition in a way and you'll find out that it takes chemistry, desire, common goals, and team cohesion to make things happen.
Edited by AbysmalGhul on April 12, 2019 7:20AM6 -
AbysmalGhul✭✭✭✭✭
✭wishlist14 wrote: »
You don't need trials gear. You just need knowledge of mechanics and a very basic rotation to get by3 -
OwnerOfSuccuby✭✭✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »It's one thing for the dungeons that came with the vanilla game, but trying to find people to run dungeons like Fang Lair on veteran feels impossible. I search high and low amongst the zone chats, guild chats and more and yet i can never find anyone willing to help me get this done. I've been trying for weeks to pull together a group so i can get that damned enticing Worm Wizard personality, something i want so badly to have for my future Imperial necromancer.
oh sure i can find a DD and Healer, but tanks are where i really struggle, i would tank myself, but im still learning, and i seriously doubt i can do veteran fang lair with him.
Surely there are others who feel the same?
Just think about situation:
I play tank and dd.
If i am dd i can kill boss near myself. If tank agroit it is simpler.
If i am tank, even if i am exp like god and party is not - i need to stay and watch them diy with no dps in aoe. Damage low, i need res them million times. What is the point for me to stay and watch people diy? I can do nothing. I have no dps to kill boss.
So what is the reason ta go there for my with dd i do not know? I will go thete only with good dd i know with good dps. By the way i can do it on hm with my girl with only 2 of use in party. What is the point for tank to stay there with 3 dd, that always are dead, do no damage and can not kill the boss. No reason. So there are to less tanks. Very bad groups - very small number of tanks. And it is simpler for them to go with good dd they trust.0 -
jarydf✭✭✭✭Even when you successfully complete they dont seem fun. All I have done is remembered the mechanics with a decent group. All it takes is a dud member or two and you have wasted an hour or two in a queue or getting frustrated. No thanks I'll pass.1
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IwakuraLain42✭✭✭✭✭Most problems with these dungeons have already been pointed out but I would like to the commendation „just find a guild running them“. At least on my platform (PS4/EU) this is so hilariously out of touch with reality it’s not even funny anymore. There are no such guilds (or if they are there then they are doing a very good job of hiding themselves from new player). And I don’t think the new guild finder will help here as it would require the GM to actively modify their guild info to allow them to be find. This is very unlikely to happen.0 -
sudaki_eso✭✭✭✭✭Had some very unpleasents runs with pugs in vet dlc dungeon, not going to do it anymore, only with friends or if i have to pug on normal.PS4 EU - StamDK0 -
Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭AbysmalGhul wrote: »You want to know why? i'll give you a little list
1: Vet DLC dungeons are not just hard, they are uncomfortbly hard
They take practice.
2: not everybody owns the dlc
True
3: the worm wizard personaility comes from doing nodeath/speedrun/hm...in one of the dragonbone dungeons, which are full on bs tier diffcuility
It's not that bad to earn skins and personalities. Again, it takes practice.
4: those that can do it have already done it and have no desire to subject themsevles to such hell again
I help all of the time. Most end game players are pretty nice and are willing to help. They even might make your goals a reality because they are comfortable running the content.
@Matthew_Galvanus TC, the best thing you could do is join a guild and get slowly acquainted with like minded people that have the same goals as you do. Finding a main team takes time. You almost have to audition in a way and you'll find out that it takes chemistry, desire, common goals, and team cohesion to make things happen.
i have to agree unfortunately. I am too used to the mentality of FFXIV when coming into ESO. While FFXIV has a collection of elitists, it is so much easier to pull together groups for end game content, partly because players are more communicative, and partly because ffxiv has a party making system built in game that doesnt require any real legwork to be done.0 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hey Matthew,
There are definitely other people who want the personality/achievements out there.
Putting together a group specifically for this seems like the right way to go. And emphasising that this is a goal you will collectively work towards, rather than a one time trip might help.
My perception of Fang Lair HM is that it’s one of the hardest DLC dungeons with a boatload of complex mechanics. It may be that many tanks feel the same way you do, that they are very capable of tanking, but maybe not Fang Lair. So creating an environment which is about learning the dungeon and working towards the achievement goal may help in recruiting. This might even be the way to go with your tank.
Getting the achievement is a journey, it might take time, but it should be fun and rewarding.
Good luck.
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Matthew_Galvanus✭✭✭✭✭
✭disintegr8 wrote: »
it isn't actually. I've played the hm for fang lair enough (unsuccessfully) that when i settled for clearing it on veteran difficulty instead, it was almost hilarious that he could be such a massive pushover.1 -
Weesacs✭✭✭✭✭OP if your on PS4 EU send me a message and ill get u into my guild. The guild was created to do the DLC challenger achievements and all other 4 man achievements. We focus on different challenges each week.
Breton Templar
PS5 - EU - DC0 -
p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Androconium wrote: »The Veteran Dungeon Gestapo have done a great job of frightening any imperfect individual from joining them in their quest for perfection and loot-gathering in world record times.
Actually you will find ZoS is responsible of the obscure mechanics that make vet Dungeons only suitable for the very few.
Yet if ZoS lowers difficulty, everyone is up in arms that the game is too easy.
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redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭An active guild is the answer to all your problems."Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother | VforVendetta | Grownups Gaming EU | English Elders [PS][EU] 2500 CP
- Daggerfall's Mightiest | Eternal Champions | Legacy | Tamriel Melting Pot [PS][NA] 2300 CP
- SweetTrolls | Spring Rose | Daggerfall Royal Legion | Tinnitus Delux [PC][EU] 2525 CP
- Bacon Rats | Silverlight Brotherhood | Canis Root Tea Party | Vincula Doloris [PC][NA] 2300 CP
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p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hey Matthew,
There are definitely other people who want the personality/achievements out there.
Putting together a group specifically for this seems like the right way to go. And emphasising that this is a goal you will collectively work towards, rather than a one time trip might help.
My perception of Fang Lair HM is that it’s one of the hardest DLC dungeons with a boatload of complex mechanics. It may be that many tanks feel the same way you do, that they are very capable of tanking, but maybe not Fang Lair. So creating an environment which is about learning the dungeon and working towards the achievement goal may help in recruiting. This might even be the way to go with your tank.
Getting the achievement is a journey, it might take time, but it should be fun and rewarding.
Good luck.
Fang Lair HM is no different than Malatar HM imho.
Both have impossible mechanics for those having only 2 hands and do not see the point of doing them for the sake of pure masochism.
To do both, you need to have them tried so many times with a set group to get used to each other movements without thinking. It is not for PUGs let alone guild tries. Some DLC dungeons are easier like ICP & WGT, Mazzatun. Though the latest ones are incredibly hard. And talking about Fang Lair, the only difficulty on vFang Lair is the final fight. The rest of the dungeon can be carved quickly with 2 dds.
Vet Malatar on the other hand, except maybe the first boss, the next 2 bosses are complete ****, especially the third boss, which since Tuesday patch, feels broken. None of the clones responding to taunting to move to the centre. Just sit there spamming spells. And the final boss in HM is too tricky for the best of tanks. As when the link appears, is exactly after the whirlwind and following the heavy attack. Even if the DDs manage to not die on the whirlwind attack and open a gap just behind the boss, 8 out of 10 times the boss will one shoot the tank on the back, after blocking the heavy attack.
And at the same time, the DDs need to kill at least 1 or 2 of the shadows from the corners, otherwise the fight gets even trickier.AbysmalGhul wrote: »wishlist14 wrote: »
You don't need trials gear. You just need knowledge of mechanics and a very basic rotation to get by
Some mechanics need a group to try them for hours to get used to. A simple video or document do not provide all the information because are made of those who spend the past 100 hours trying that dungeon/boss mechanics.
And this group needs to be a set group, not a PUG not even a random guild group. A set group, wearing sets and using skills that complement each other changing gear and skills multiple times during the dungeon run.
Then comes the argument, why punish ourselves with such masochistic gaming? I rather do something different as there is no rewards.Edited by p_tsakirisb16_ESO on April 12, 2019 10:47AM2 -
TheInfernalRage✭✭✭✭✭Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »It's one thing for the dungeons that came with the vanilla game, but trying to find people to run dungeons like Fang Lair on veteran feels impossible. I search high and low amongst the zone chats, guild chats and more and yet i can never find anyone willing to help me get this done. I've been trying for weeks to pull together a group so i can get that damned enticing Worm Wizard personality, something i want so badly to have for my future Imperial necromancer.
oh sure i can find a DD and Healer, but tanks are where i really struggle, i would tank myself, but im still learning, and i seriously doubt i can do veteran fang lair with him.
Surely there are others who feel the same?
Vet DLC dungeons are tough. In a few years, I only had only 1 really good PUG and that was the time when vet Cradle of Shadows was still tough.
Friends. Make friends. It'll make the dungeon run fun without the unnecessary toxicity.0 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't normally bother with DLC dungeons myself... unless with guildies or friends, and even then, only when they ask to fill a group and only if they don't have anyone better
And before I accept to join, I make a point to signal that I don't know the fights, and it will take a few tries (often several) to learn them... and yeah, I'm slow to learn mechanics because it's hard to understand everything from what someone explains to you, first try... it normally takes me several deaths, often wipes depending on group and fight, until the mechanics "click" with me and I understand them.
Once I learn the fights I can do them and not die at all, it's just the initial learning process is a pain for me... and stressful, so I avoid that, and it's specially worse with a group of strangers.
But it's a vicious circle, as the more you wait the more difficult is to justify "Why haven't you learned them yet?!"
Totally agree, which is why I really enjoy the initial release of DLC dungeons. At this point it’s a new experience for everyone and there’s an atmosphere of positive exploration and an acceptance that at any point any one of us could make a mistake (and that that is fine). I pugged Moonhunter Keep when it was released and met a load of cool players (some of whom stayed to the end, some of whom had to leave). A couple of weeks later I went back and that spirit had been replaced by a self-indulgent “what do you mean you don’t know the mechanics” vibe.
Same thing with DoM, first day it took 3 hours and was really fun (in a kind of masochistic way). Now I only do it with guildies.
The only way I’ve found to keep that initial positive feeling is to get your own dedicated DLC crew together, which sadly only adds to OP’s “where are the players?” woes by removing at least 4 of them from PUGs1 -
OwnerOfSuccuby✭✭✭Guys. It is not already even funny. Hm if fung layer is possible to make even by 2 people. Without 2 in group. Stop saying it is hard or impossible. Just learn to play better.1
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John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OwnerOfSuccuby wrote: »Guys. It is not already even funny. Hm if fung layer is possible to make even by 2 people. Without 2 in group. Stop saying it is hard or impossible. Just learn to play better.
Just out of curiosity - if your DD (assuming tank + dd group here) is chained by Ulfnor's ghost, what do you do as a tank?
And I think OP's doing some progress towards his goal. ^^0 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah probably, you sound like a guy who was laying in the dirt for the 17th time because of ignoring of mechanics and/or delivering abysmal low amount of performance. I don't get your logic, veterans, especially hardmodes require a certain amount of understanding and expertise of your role which both require some time. You don't play, because you have no time to play but feel privileged enough to be "able" to clear them.Probably to meet charmers like you.
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OwnerOfSuccuby✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »OwnerOfSuccuby wrote: »Guys. It is not already even funny. Hm if fung layer is possible to make even by 2 people. Without 2 in group. Stop saying it is hard or impossible. Just learn to play better.
Just out of curiosity - if your DD (assuming tank + dd group here) is chained by Ulfnor's ghost, what do you do as a tank?
And I think OP's doing some progress towards his goal. ^^
Maelstrom bow with poison enchant on infused + endless hail + storm fist. 10 k dps per second to range target. For example? And go as far with boss as i only can. Or ultimate and res for example?
Edited by OwnerOfSuccuby on April 12, 2019 12:12PM0
