The Elder Scrolls Online

StamDen vs Magden...which and why? or why is Stamden considered "stronger"?

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Joxer61
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Ok, with the changes to destro staff lately Magden has seen some love in the dps dept...with parses only being like 1-2k behind Stamden. So I ask this...which is the "preferred" choice for trials and such, or does it really matter? I understand Stamden is very strong as well but then they both have pretty much the same toolset bar endless hail/caltrops. Are those skills just that strong that its what pulls Stamden ahead of the bunch?
Of does Stamden (because it seems to be the more popular choice) bring something a little more that a Magden doesn't?
Just curious as to how each build is playing out..... ;)

Gonna add this bit from prior post:
What makes a Stamden "stronger" than a Magden? If I have almost the same class skills on my bars is the difference between stamina and magicka attacks that big? Was just something i was thinking about after reading all the junk out there on both builds, with Stamden getting all the love. Seems odd that one would be better/stronger than the other, due to the usage of so many class skills now on the builds. Are stam attacks...bow/DW etc. just a bit better or have better passives or sync with gear better or what? Or it is just peoples opinions that one is better than the other but meh, its being said alot so might be a small bit of truth to it.
It just seems like there are 2 maybe 3 folks making Magden shine and then others sing the praises of Stamden being like #2 and all that....why? ;)

As an example here are two intros to each build:

Magden
High Magicka resource pool
Good AoE damage
Good Single Target damage
Good sustain

Stamden
High Single Target damage
Crazy AoE damage
High sustain

So you can see that just going off "words" one would get the feeling that a Stamden is stronger. So again I ask, why? Or are they just that....words?
Edited by Joxer61 on April 11, 2019 6:17AM
  • hedna123b14_ESO
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Ok, with the changes to destro staff lately Magden has seen some love in the dps dept...with parses only being like 1-2k behind Stamden. So I ask this...which is the "preferred" choice for trials and such, or does it really matter? I understand Stamden is very strong as well but then they both have pretty much the same toolset bar endless hail/caltrops. Are those skills just that strong that its what pulls Stamden ahead of the bunch?
    Of does Stamden (because it seems to be the more popular choice) bring something a little more that a Magden doesn't?
    Just curious as to how each build is playing out..... ;)

    Stamden will do a lot more damage in raids, especially on Bow/Bow
    Valor

    https://www.youtube.com/c/NosESO
  • Joxer61
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    hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Ok, with the changes to destro staff lately Magden has seen some love in the dps dept...with parses only being like 1-2k behind Stamden. So I ask this...which is the "preferred" choice for trials and such, or does it really matter? I understand Stamden is very strong as well but then they both have pretty much the same toolset bar endless hail/caltrops. Are those skills just that strong that its what pulls Stamden ahead of the bunch?
    Of does Stamden (because it seems to be the more popular choice) bring something a little more that a Magden doesn't?
    Just curious as to how each build is playing out..... ;)

    Stamden will do a lot more damage in raids, especially on Bow/Bow

    but Bow/Bow aside, I find it boring, why is it that stamden is considered stronger?
    Edited by Joxer61 on April 11, 2019 6:12AM
  • SoLooney
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    If it's boring then dont play it. Boring is subjective, no one can explain to you why something is boring or fun

    But stamdens pull way more damage in pve and they're a popular choice for pvp
  • Joxer61
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    SoLooney wrote: »
    If it's boring then dont play it. Boring is subjective, no one can explain to you why something is boring or fun

    But stamdens pull way more damage in pve and they're a popular choice for pvp

    lol, wasn't asking why I find it boring....bad choice of a sentence. was asking what is it that makes stamden stronger given that both builds use almost the same toolset? ;)
  • Runefang
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    Stamina does more dps than Magicka. Simples.
  • Joxer61
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    Runefang wrote: »
    Stamina does more dps than Magicka. Simples.

    because...….????

    hail and caltrops? passives?
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    everything magden can do, stamden can do better!
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on April 11, 2019 7:16AM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
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  • Joxer61
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    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    everything magden can do, stamden can do better!

    you guys are killing me...lol. why? give me why? its basically the same toolset, critters for days, so is the bow bar just that much stronger or is Stam as a whole just that much stronger.....examples people...examples. ;)
  • Alucardo
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    I don't know, I've met some pretty crazy magdens before. If stamden was arguably stronger, I'd say it's because of the way a stamina character can stack weapon damage, and because of the stam weapon trees compared to staves

    Edited by Alucardo on April 11, 2019 7:20AM
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    Alucardo wrote: »
    I don't know, I've met some pretty crazy magdens before. If stamden was arguably stronger, I'd say it's because of the way a stamina character can stack weapon damage, and because of the stam weapon trees compared to staves

    it does more damage than magden. but they both sort of have the same group utility. which is not really that much. stamdens have more reason to use green lotus than magden does to use lotus blossom too which means that stamden can give toughness better.
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
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  • Joxer61
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    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Alucardo wrote: »
    I don't know, I've met some pretty crazy magdens before. If stamden was arguably stronger, I'd say it's because of the way a stamina character can stack weapon damage, and because of the stam weapon trees compared to staves

    it does more damage than magden. but they both sort of have the same group utility. which is not really that much. stamdens have more reason to use green lotus than magden does to use lotus blossom too which means that stamden can give toughness better.

    I still gotta ask, but why? Same toolset front bar basically so what is setting them apart from their mag counterparts? "just more damage" is very vague..... ;)
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Alucardo wrote: »
    I don't know, I've met some pretty crazy magdens before. If stamden was arguably stronger, I'd say it's because of the way a stamina character can stack weapon damage, and because of the stam weapon trees compared to staves

    it does more damage than magden. but they both sort of have the same group utility. which is not really that much. stamdens have more reason to use green lotus than magden does to use lotus blossom too which means that stamden can give toughness better.

    I still gotta ask, but why? Same toolset front bar basically so what is setting them apart from their mag counterparts? "just more damage" is very vague..... ;)

    Stamdens parse higher. its pretty much that simple.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on April 11, 2019 7:52AM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
    Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Frostingale
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  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Joxer61 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Alucardo wrote: »
    I don't know, I've met some pretty crazy magdens before. If stamden was arguably stronger, I'd say it's because of the way a stamina character can stack weapon damage, and because of the stam weapon trees compared to staves

    it does more damage than magden. but they both sort of have the same group utility. which is not really that much. stamdens have more reason to use green lotus than magden does to use lotus blossom too which means that stamden can give toughness better.

    I still gotta ask, but why? Same toolset front bar basically so what is setting them apart from their mag counterparts? "just more damage" is very vague..... ;)

    Stamdens parse higher. its pretty much that simple.

    lol, i give up...
  • Jaxaxo
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    I guess ppl rather gave up on u :trollface:
    It's like asking why apples and tomatoes are diffrent. Both are fruits in theory. But they're just diffrent. That's all.
    Forum War - pro AC side

    EU PC Azura Star/Sotha Sil/Bahlokdaan/Ravenwatch
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    DC - Lemme Dark Deal stamsorc
    EP - Lemme Dark Déal stamsorc
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  • Tryxus
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    Stamina has been stronger than Magicka for a long time alrdy so yeah...

    In the Warden's case however, I believe it's also because the class has always been designed for Stamina specifically (both the Morrowind trailer and character creation are indications) and as such the skills of a StamDen are better thought out and have better synergy with the Stamina weapons

    Then we have MagDen and they are... not as optimized as their Stamina counterparts: Cliff Racer vs Deep Fissure, 8% more Magicka on Northern Storm but needing the Bear, Fetcher Infection double casts,... It's preventing MagDens from performing better and since Stam is alrdy stronger than Mag... :disappointed:

    Edited by Tryxus on April 11, 2019 11:41AM
    "Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
    Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU
  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    Tryxus wrote: »
    Stamina has been stronger than Magicka for a long time alrdy so yeah...

    In the Warden's case however, I believe it's also because the class has always been designed for Stamina specifically (both the Morrowind trailer and character creation are indications) and as such the skills of a StamDen are better thought out and have better synergy with the Stamina weapons

    Then we have MagDen and they are... not as optimized as their Stamina counterparts: Cliff Racer vs Deep Fissure, 8% more Magicka on Northern Storm but needing the Bear, Fetcher Infection double casts,... It's preventing MagDens from performing better and since Stam is alrdy stronger than Mag... :disappointed:

    THANK YOU for that! now that's some great info I can digest. Makes sense...…..cheers mate! ;)
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    Tryxus wrote: »
    Stamina has been stronger than Magicka for a long time alrdy so yeah...

    In the Warden's case however, I believe it's also because the class has always been designed for Stamina specifically (both the Morrowind trailer and character creation are indications) and as such the skills of a StamDen are better thought out and have better synergy with the Stamina weapons

    Then we have MagDen and they are... not as optimized as their Stamina counterparts: Cliff Racer vs Deep Fissure, 8% more Magicka on Northern Storm but needing the Bear, Fetcher Infection double casts,... It's preventing MagDens from performing better and since Stam is alrdy stronger than Mag... :disappointed:

    i mean we were also shown that they were frost mages. so i don't think the trailer was entirely accurate.
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
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  • frostz417
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    Stam classes have higher damage than mag generally because of dw passives along with bow passives and endless hail.
    Just a vma bow alone can account for 5-7k dps because of how powerful endless hail is. No magica AOE dot is as strong as endless hail.
    Not to mention stamina can stack weapon damage higher than mag can naturally.
  • Tryxus
    Tryxus
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    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tryxus wrote: »
    Stamina has been stronger than Magicka for a long time alrdy so yeah...

    In the Warden's case however, I believe it's also because the class has always been designed for Stamina specifically (both the Morrowind trailer and character creation are indications) and as such the skills of a StamDen are better thought out and have better synergy with the Stamina weapons

    Then we have MagDen and they are... not as optimized as their Stamina counterparts: Cliff Racer vs Deep Fissure, 8% more Magicka on Northern Storm but needing the Bear, Fetcher Infection double casts,... It's preventing MagDens from performing better and since Stam is alrdy stronger than Mag... :disappointed:

    i mean we were also shown that they were frost mages. so i don't think the trailer was entirely accurate.

    He was shown to use Frost Magic, doesn't make him a full mage.

    And yeah the trailer wasn't accurate: he used Sleet Storm while the Bear was active... :p
    Edited by Tryxus on April 11, 2019 12:08PM
    "Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
    Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    Tryxus wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tryxus wrote: »
    Stamina has been stronger than Magicka for a long time alrdy so yeah...

    In the Warden's case however, I believe it's also because the class has always been designed for Stamina specifically (both the Morrowind trailer and character creation are indications) and as such the skills of a StamDen are better thought out and have better synergy with the Stamina weapons

    Then we have MagDen and they are... not as optimized as their Stamina counterparts: Cliff Racer vs Deep Fissure, 8% more Magicka on Northern Storm but needing the Bear, Fetcher Infection double casts,... It's preventing MagDens from performing better and since Stam is alrdy stronger than Mag... :disappointed:

    i mean we were also shown that they were frost mages. so i don't think the trailer was entirely accurate.

    He was shown to use Frost Magic, doesn't make him a full mage.

    And yeah the trailer wasn't accurate: he used Sleet Storm while the Bear was active... :p

    well i would call him a spellsword. used a bear while swinging a 1 handed sword and using a ton of frost magic. more a frost mage than warden ever was/is. Damn i would totally play what was advertised.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on April 11, 2019 12:16PM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
    Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Frostingale
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  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    Tryxus wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tryxus wrote: »
    Stamina has been stronger than Magicka for a long time alrdy so yeah...

    In the Warden's case however, I believe it's also because the class has always been designed for Stamina specifically (both the Morrowind trailer and character creation are indications) and as such the skills of a StamDen are better thought out and have better synergy with the Stamina weapons

    Then we have MagDen and they are... not as optimized as their Stamina counterparts: Cliff Racer vs Deep Fissure, 8% more Magicka on Northern Storm but needing the Bear, Fetcher Infection double casts,... It's preventing MagDens from performing better and since Stam is alrdy stronger than Mag... :disappointed:

    i mean we were also shown that they were frost mages. so i don't think the trailer was entirely accurate.

    He was shown to use Frost Magic, doesn't make him a full mage.

    And yeah the trailer wasn't accurate: he used Sleet Storm while the Bear was active... :p

    now that would be cool!!
  • Tryxus
    Tryxus
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    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tryxus wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tryxus wrote: »
    Stamina has been stronger than Magicka for a long time alrdy so yeah...

    In the Warden's case however, I believe it's also because the class has always been designed for Stamina specifically (both the Morrowind trailer and character creation are indications) and as such the skills of a StamDen are better thought out and have better synergy with the Stamina weapons

    Then we have MagDen and they are... not as optimized as their Stamina counterparts: Cliff Racer vs Deep Fissure, 8% more Magicka on Northern Storm but needing the Bear, Fetcher Infection double casts,... It's preventing MagDens from performing better and since Stam is alrdy stronger than Mag... :disappointed:

    i mean we were also shown that they were frost mages. so i don't think the trailer was entirely accurate.

    He was shown to use Frost Magic, doesn't make him a full mage.

    And yeah the trailer wasn't accurate: he used Sleet Storm while the Bear was active... :p

    well i would call him a spellsword. used a bear while swinging a 1 handed sword and using a ton of frost magic. more a frost mage than warden ever was/is. Damn i would totally play what was advertised.

    I guess Spellsword is indeed the correct term for him, but imo he still leans more towards Stam than Mag. Not as magical as the Magdens you seen ingame :p

    Let's hope ZOS can make them as fun as him :)
    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Tryxus wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Tryxus wrote: »
    Stamina has been stronger than Magicka for a long time alrdy so yeah...

    In the Warden's case however, I believe it's also because the class has always been designed for Stamina specifically (both the Morrowind trailer and character creation are indications) and as such the skills of a StamDen are better thought out and have better synergy with the Stamina weapons

    Then we have MagDen and they are... not as optimized as their Stamina counterparts: Cliff Racer vs Deep Fissure, 8% more Magicka on Northern Storm but needing the Bear, Fetcher Infection double casts,... It's preventing MagDens from performing better and since Stam is alrdy stronger than Mag... :disappointed:

    i mean we were also shown that they were frost mages. so i don't think the trailer was entirely accurate.

    He was shown to use Frost Magic, doesn't make him a full mage.

    And yeah the trailer wasn't accurate: he used Sleet Storm while the Bear was active... :p

    now that would be cool!!

    Just imagine summoning a powerful Ice Destro Ulti tearing away your helpless prey while the Bear charges in and mauls it to death... >:)
    "Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
    Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU
  • hedna123b14_ESO
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Ok, with the changes to destro staff lately Magden has seen some love in the dps dept...with parses only being like 1-2k behind Stamden. So I ask this...which is the "preferred" choice for trials and such, or does it really matter? I understand Stamden is very strong as well but then they both have pretty much the same toolset bar endless hail/caltrops. Are those skills just that strong that its what pulls Stamden ahead of the bunch?
    Of does Stamden (because it seems to be the more popular choice) bring something a little more that a Magden doesn't?
    Just curious as to how each build is playing out..... ;)

    Stamden will do a lot more damage in raids, especially on Bow/Bow

    but Bow/Bow aside, I find it boring, why is it that stamden is considered stronger?

    With full raid buffs a stamden does considerably more damage than a magden.
    Valor

    https://www.youtube.com/c/NosESO
  • hedna123b14_ESO
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Alucardo wrote: »
    I don't know, I've met some pretty crazy magdens before. If stamden was arguably stronger, I'd say it's because of the way a stamina character can stack weapon damage, and because of the stam weapon trees compared to staves

    it does more damage than magden. but they both sort of have the same group utility. which is not really that much. stamdens have more reason to use green lotus than magden does to use lotus blossom too which means that stamden can give toughness better.

    I still gotta ask, but why? Same toolset front bar basically so what is setting them apart from their mag counterparts? "just more damage" is very vague..... ;)

    A stamden parses 5k higher solo than a magden and the stamden is missing 4.8k penetration that magden has when he parses. If you want a breakdown:
    1. Hail is an amazing DoT
    2. Stamina benefits more from raid buffs because it has less passive penetration than magicka and is thus buffed more in raid.
    3. Stamina scales much better with weapon damage than magicka does with magicka and stamina has a ton of weapon damage.
    4. Stamina has more crit than magicka due to the dw passive.

    There are others, these are just a few...
    Valor

    https://www.youtube.com/c/NosESO
  • Joxer61
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    hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
    Joxer61 wrote: »
    ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
    Alucardo wrote: »
    I don't know, I've met some pretty crazy magdens before. If stamden was arguably stronger, I'd say it's because of the way a stamina character can stack weapon damage, and because of the stam weapon trees compared to staves

    it does more damage than magden. but they both sort of have the same group utility. which is not really that much. stamdens have more reason to use green lotus than magden does to use lotus blossom too which means that stamden can give toughness better.

    I still gotta ask, but why? Same toolset front bar basically so what is setting them apart from their mag counterparts? "just more damage" is very vague..... ;)

    A stamden parses 5k higher solo than a magden and the stamden is missing 4.8k penetration that magden has when he parses. If you want a breakdown:
    1. Hail is an amazing DoT
    2. Stamina benefits more from raid buffs because it has less passive penetration than magicka and is thus buffed more in raid.
    3. Stamina scales much better with weapon damage than magicka does with magicka and stamina has a ton of weapon damage.
    4. Stamina has more crit than magicka due to the dw passive.

    There are others, these are just a few...

    Cheers for that! Again, all very good information!!
  • Oakmontowls_ESO
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    Balance wise stam has to parse higher than mag since they usually have to take a melee spot and usually have less survivability than mag. If they didn't there would be no reason to take them into a trial over a mag build.
  • hedna123b14_ESO
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    Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »
    Balance wise stam has to parse higher than mag since they usually have to take a melee spot and usually have less survivability than mag. If they didn't there would be no reason to take them into a trial over a mag build.

    Just fyi stam has more survivability than mag now and they now deal more damage in melee AND range
    Valor

    https://www.youtube.com/c/NosESO
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