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Whats with all these useless skills?
AngelFires333
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Why cant you just make most all skills balanced, in so doing creating a fountain of diversity for everyone.
For eg... "Consuming soul" in the soul magic skill line. Why In the name of Sithis, would one choose that over reapers mark?
It is outrageous.
Eh?
For eg... "Consuming soul" in the soul magic skill line. Why In the name of Sithis, would one choose that over reapers mark?
It is outrageous.
Eh?
7
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xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭cuz people come to forums and complain...so zosgods went nerfstrike and killed all diversity leaving just 1 viable build for every class...the only place where is diversity is cyrodill but even that one is just a shallow lie cuz there are just 2 builds that are viable in all situations...either u go pure glass cannon ganker or full heavy bleeder...that's it...and heavy bleeder performs better cuz u cant rly die so its kind of a trade off but you get the idea...12 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭(A) Because not everyone is a nightblade.
(B) It fills an empty soul gem - it's really for farming those.
(C) It returns resources other than health.
(D) It's a actually quite a good sustain skill for things like vMA, which I keep forgetting myself.
(E) Because it affects 2 targets.
(F) It used to knock nightblades out of cloak. Not sure it still does that, but it actually worked as a detection skill, used by classes other than nightblades. This part is/was probably unintended.
There. Is that enough for ye?11 -
AngelFires333✭✭✭✭✭xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »cuz people come to forums and complain...so zosgods went nerfstrike and killed all diversity leaving just 1 viable build for every class...the only place where is diversity is cyrodill but even that one is just a shallow lie cuz there are just 2 builds that are viable in all situations...either u go pure glass cannon ganker or full heavy bleeder...that's it...and heavy bleeder performs better cuz u cant rly die so its kind of a trade off but you get the idea...
I'm not complaining...I'm brain storming.
Perhaps the frustration you feel within my words, is nothing but a reflection of your inner fears.
How do I know this to be so?
Because I'm awesome.5 -
AngelFires333✭✭✭✭✭(A) Because not everyone is a nightblade.
(B) It fills an empty soul gem - it's really for farming those.
(C) It returns resources other than health.
(D) It's a actually quite a good sustain skill for things like vMA, which I keep forgetting myself.
(E) Because it affects 2 targets.
(F) It used to knock nightblades out of cloak. Not sure it still does that, but it actually worked as a detection skill, used by classes other than nightblades. This part is/was probably unintended.
There. Is that enough for ye?
That's off topic.
Am I wrong?0 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Each and every one of the millions of players in this game has their own version of balance.
Skills the OP thinks are trash may be beneficial to other builds.
But this is nothing new ...5 -
xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AngelFires333 wrote: »xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »cuz people come to forums and complain...so zosgods went nerfstrike and killed all diversity leaving just 1 viable build for every class...the only place where is diversity is cyrodill but even that one is just a shallow lie cuz there are just 2 builds that are viable in all situations...either u go pure glass cannon ganker or full heavy bleeder...that's it...and heavy bleeder performs better cuz u cant rly die so its kind of a trade off but you get the idea...
I'm not complaining...I'm brain storming.
Perhaps the frustration you feel within my words, is nothing but a reflection of your inner fears.
How do I know this to be so?
Because I'm awesome.
lol the comment had nothing to do with you...but the overall community...since you feel that way that explains everything...ruined enough live streamers "PvX" to know the lengths of "diversity"3 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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The uses of Consuming Trap. You asked.AngelFires333 wrote: »(A) Because not everyone is a nightblade.
(B) It fills an empty soul gem - it's really for farming those.
(C) It returns resources other than health.
(D) It's a actually quite a good sustain skill for things like vMA, which I keep forgetting myself.
(E) Because it affects 2 targets.
(F) It used to knock nightblades out of cloak. Not sure it still does that, but it actually worked as a detection skill, used by classes other than nightblades. This part is/was probably unintended.
There. Is that enough for ye?
That's off topic.
Am I wrong?
Edited by fred4 on April 11, 2019 3:39AM8 -
AngelFires333✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Each and every one of the millions of players in this game has their own version of balance.
Skills the OP thinks are trash may be beneficial to other builds.
But this is nothing new ...
Everyone just does what Alcast does. (Nothing against Alcast, he has helped me with the game considerably. This is just exempli gratia.)
Doing what everyone else does is boring as shite.
But one is unable to do otherwise unless invoking the anger of the "BIS" Gods.
Hail Sithis.
Father of Infinity.
2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Because ZOS is not going to be able to make ALL skills exactly equal so that there nothing more mathematically efficient than the rest.
That's what it would take to break the meta for top tier end-game, competitive content.
For everything else, you can use whatever morphs or skills you want, because outside of top tier endgame and competitive content, you don't need to follow the meta or have an optimized build.2 -
AngelFires333✭✭✭✭✭xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »AngelFires333 wrote: »xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »cuz people come to forums and complain...so zosgods went nerfstrike and killed all diversity leaving just 1 viable build for every class...the only place where is diversity is cyrodill but even that one is just a shallow lie cuz there are just 2 builds that are viable in all situations...either u go pure glass cannon ganker or full heavy bleeder...that's it...and heavy bleeder performs better cuz u cant rly die so its kind of a trade off but you get the idea...
I'm not complaining...I'm brain storming.
Perhaps the frustration you feel within my words, is nothing but a reflection of your inner fears.
How do I know this to be so?
Because I'm awesome.
lol the comment had nothing to do with you...but the overall community...since you feel that way that explains everything...ruined enough live streamers "PvX" to know the lengths of "diversity"
I agree with you 100%. Much to much complaining for such a wonderful game.
I have said it before...I believe many of these complainers are just trolls from other mmo's.
Spouting their filth to make this one look bad. Only a peasant would fall for it.
If you hate the designers so much, then why the hell are you playing?
2 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭AngelFires333 wrote: »xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »AngelFires333 wrote: »xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »cuz people come to forums and complain...so zosgods went nerfstrike and killed all diversity leaving just 1 viable build for every class...the only place where is diversity is cyrodill but even that one is just a shallow lie cuz there are just 2 builds that are viable in all situations...either u go pure glass cannon ganker or full heavy bleeder...that's it...and heavy bleeder performs better cuz u cant rly die so its kind of a trade off but you get the idea...
I'm not complaining...I'm brain storming.
Perhaps the frustration you feel within my words, is nothing but a reflection of your inner fears.
How do I know this to be so?
Because I'm awesome.
lol the comment had nothing to do with you...but the overall community...since you feel that way that explains everything...ruined enough live streamers "PvX" to know the lengths of "diversity"
I agree with you 100%. Much to much complaining for such a wonderful game.
I have said it before...I believe many of these complainers are just trolls from other mmo's.
Spouting their filth to make this one look bad. Only a peasant would fall for it.
If you hate the designers so much, then why the hell are you playing?
Of course they're not.
They have played other more balanced games, that is all.
This game is beautiful and fun to play, but it's very unbalanced and most of the choices are not like-for-like ones, meaning there is nearly always only one or two correct builds.
Anything else is, technically, a red herring.
That is not how it should be.Edited by Tigerseye on April 11, 2019 5:31AM2 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Narvuntien wrote: »You need bad skills to make the good skill stand out...?
lol.2 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Because ZOS is not going to be able to make ALL skills exactly equal so that there nothing more mathematically efficient than the rest.
That's what it would take to break the meta for top tier end-game, competitive content.
For everything else, you can use whatever morphs or skills you want, because outside of top tier endgame and competitive content, you don't need to follow the meta or have an optimized build.
Rubbish.
Balancing doesn't "break metas", it just gives us all more options.
The individual player's level of skill is what should make the difference, in terms of DPS, or whatever.
Not that he's just copied a guide, skill-for-skill, CP point-for-CP point and so on.
Don't really know why I'm even bothering to say this, when "embracing" unintended combat mechanics is a thing here.
In any other game, they would have admitted there had been an error and corrected it.
Not made it part of the rotation.3 -
notyuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just becasue you can't make it work does not mean it is a useless skill.
Remember that.4 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just becasue you can't make it work does not mean it is a useless skill.
Remember that.
Doesn't mean it's not garbage just becuase someones made it work. Remember what happened in that... other game we played together? There were examples of that all over the place I know you're familiar with the concept.
PFF for instance.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.2 -
AngelFires333✭✭✭✭✭So that took less than six hrs.
Including wait time and getting distracted from my add.0 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People complain because they run copy pasted builds and get wrecked. There’s little diversity because they run COPY PASTED BUILDS best suited to the guys who made it.
2 -
prototypefb✭✭✭✭There are so many bad skills that could be improved by adding buffs,debuffs,chance to process some cool stuff1 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
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With balance comes diversity is an oxymoron.AngelFires333 wrote: »Why cant you just make most all skills balanced, in so doing creating a fountain of diversity for everyone.
For eg... "Consuming soul" in the soul magic skill line. Why In the name of Sithis, would one choose that over reapers mark?
It is outrageous.
Eh?0 -
Liww✭✭✭I'm not super fond of no-CP pvp tbh but the one thing I do think is that you can be far more doverse whilst upholding a certain level of efficiency within your builds. CP is to a certain degree far more subject to cheese.
As for PvE, it looks like ZOS designs top tier pve content(ie speedrun achievements etc) around dps thresholds which inadvertedly pidgeonholds everyone into the meta specs. It's on their design that we have little choice when it comes to diversity whilst still being effective(note; effective, not competetive.)Edited by Liww on April 11, 2019 11:09AM1 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭(A) Because not everyone is a nightblade.
(B) It fills an empty soul gem - it's really for farming those.
(C) It returns resources other than health.
(D) It's a actually quite a good sustain skill for things like vMA, which I keep forgetting myself.
(E) Because it affects 2 targets.
(F) It used to knock nightblades out of cloak. Not sure it still does that, but it actually worked as a detection skill, used by classes other than nightblades. This part is/was probably unintended.
There. Is that enough for ye?
i think you missed the point entirely friend. there's a lot of worthless skills, and you just explained an extremely niche and actually quite redundant purpose this one skill fills.
just because you created a justification for one skill being awful doesn't justify all the awful skills in the game being awful.
@fred4skingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Because ZOS is not going to be able to make ALL skills exactly equal so that there nothing more mathematically efficient than the rest.
That's what it would take to break the meta for top tier end-game, competitive content.
For everything else, you can use whatever morphs or skills you want, because outside of top tier endgame and competitive content, you don't need to follow the meta or have an optimized build.
Rubbish.
Balancing doesn't "break metas", it just gives us all more options.
The individual player's level of skill is what should make the difference, in terms of DPS, or whatever.
Not that he's just copied a guide, skill-for-skill, CP point-for-CP point and so on.
Don't really know why I'm even bothering to say this, when "embracing" unintended combat mechanics is a thing here.
In any other game, they would have admitted there had been an error and corrected it.
Not made it part of the rotation.
That's not really an argument against what I said. Possibly, we're talking about different levels of play here.
At the top tier or co,petitive level of gameplay, there are always going to be skills that are better, that can be combined for the highest DPS or the most efficient way to complete the content or compete.
If some skill gets buffed enough, it becomes the new meta, anf everyone who follows the meta changes over to it.
The existence of that meta doesn't actually make all other skills useless. Those skills usually have their place, even though they arent quite as effective or efficient. You can ignore the meta and still complete most,content just fine, though you will not be optimal, top tier, or competitive. Below that level, you already have all the options.
If you want to expand the meta (expanding options at the top-tier/competitive level) then yes, ZOS would need to make everything perform mathematically equally or at least design content to let different playstyles all shine in their own way. Without that, there will always be a most efficient tactic/skill/build that diminishes diversity at the top tier/competitive level. Otherwise, all buffing "useless" skills does is create a new meta as retrictive as the old one.
Below that level? We already have that diversity of choices, right now, assuming people are skilled enough to make their non optimal build work.Edited by VaranisArano on April 11, 2019 12:12PM1 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AngelFires333 wrote: »For eg... "Consuming soul" in the soul magic skill line. Why In the name of Sithis, would one choose that over reapers mark?
Because I never studied 'guides' when I made my StamBlade Archer/first character, I didn't bother with the assassination tree on that character (and therefore never used Mark Target, let alone discover that Reaper's Mark existed), and I took Consume Soul as a way to restore all three resources, not just health? (and also, at the time, thought that filling soul gems was something very useful?)
edit: also, not every skill can be "balanced" perfectly, or be useful, or needs to be - especially when there's so damn many of them. Just like very piece of gear that drops can't be perfect. (1. if you don't have 'worse' things, how do you define 'better' ones; 2. not everyone is trying to min/max/perfect their build)Edited by Kiralyn2000 on April 11, 2019 1:52PM0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Remember when you could fill soul gems at the siege practice dummies in Cyrodiil?
Those were the days.
0 -
Robo_Hobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you're not Vet DLC trial DPS-tier, it seems a lot of builds surprisingly perform pretty similarly.
I'm not that good at DPS, nor do I have Relequen or other trial armor, just using Briarheart and Hundings. I was testing out different playstyles for a Stamina Templar. 2h/bow, Dw/bow, and Bow/bow.
The first two both got me very similar results (not surprising considering there's only one ability difference basically), about 28k self-buffed.
What did surprise me was that the bow/bow build, when used with Snipe as the spammable, also got me 28k. I didn't like Snipe too much so replaced it with crushing weapon and it dipped 2k, but still. I imagine the difference would be much greater if I was actually using BIS stuff and was much better at the rotations, but I also imagine that the majority of the playerbase also isn't in the realm of score-pushing DPS.
So, if you aren't doing endgame leaderboards, you have a lot of options for relatively similar outcomes within each class individually. At least from my experience.1 -
Ermiq✭✭✭✭✭
✭@AngelFires333AngelFires333 wrote: »xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »AngelFires333 wrote: »xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »cuz people come to forums and complain...so zosgods went nerfstrike and killed all diversity leaving just 1 viable build for every class...the only place where is diversity is cyrodill but even that one is just a shallow lie cuz there are just 2 builds that are viable in all situations...either u go pure glass cannon ganker or full heavy bleeder...that's it...and heavy bleeder performs better cuz u cant rly die so its kind of a trade off but you get the idea...
I'm not complaining...I'm brain storming.
Perhaps the frustration you feel within my words, is nothing but a reflection of your inner fears.
How do I know this to be so?
Because I'm awesome.
lol the comment had nothing to do with you...but the overall community...since you feel that way that explains everything...ruined enough live streamers "PvX" to know the lengths of "diversity"
I agree with you 100%. Much to much complaining for such a wonderful game.
I have said it before...I believe many of these complainers are just trolls from other mmo's.
Spouting their filth to make this one look bad. Only a peasant would fall for it.
If you hate the designers so much, then why the hell are you playing?
I'm playing ESO because there's no alternative out there for me. I can't play FF14 because of its Asian flavors, it just makes me feel sick. I find GW2 a chauvinist piece of sheet because of its representation of Soviet Russians as a moles and rats nation. I don't want to play WOW because it's not that good anymore and honestly it really got too old. And don't want to play Free2Play-Pay2Win games.
That's why I do complain about things I don't like in ESO. If I had another game to play, I would just quit ESO. But I have not, and because of that I want this game to be the game I really love and not just endure it because I have no other options.
Pretty simple.
See, ESO is actually a great game. Awesome, I would say. But it doesn't mean that it has no bugs, design flaws and other problems.Edited by Ermiq on April 11, 2019 4:00PMOne of the two of us definitely has gone mad. It only remains to define whether this one is the whole world or just me.
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
Sick&tired of being kicked off from your house when you complete a dungeon? ComingBackHome addon is what you need!
Me is russian little bad in english :b0 -
DenMoria✭✭✭✭✭
✭AngelFires333 wrote: »Why cant you just make most all skills balanced, in so doing creating a fountain of diversity for everyone.
For eg... "Consuming soul" in the soul magic skill line. Why In the name of Sithis, would one choose that over reapers mark?
It is outrageous.
Eh?
Mainly because Consuming Soul is far more useful at lower levels.0
