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Why Uppercut needs to be changed, and now
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Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »Nothing wrong with it.... Seriously. Leave it alone, just learn to use it.
Just because you keep getting hit with it doesn't mean it works fine. Between lag and a lot of counterplay it rarely ever hits.
Im not getting hit with it, i use it on my stamsorc and stamdk so stop with the ***, your moaning about something you obviously dont have the ability to use
So why are you against improving it to work better in lag? How am I supposed to use it when anyone with half a brain can see it being wound up and has an absurd amount of time to react. Dodge, block or even just walk away. Or you have to cancel it in medium because you can take a lot of damage in that window. Maybe you play in a group so you can afford to try tp land it 20 times. I play solo. It's beyond useless.
Find me one good PVPer that thinks the skill is good and uses it. You won't. Can't remember the last time I saw anyone use in PvP. 2h is a back bar weapon for everyone that isn't a stamblade.Edited by Brrrofski on April 4, 2019 7:30AM1 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭No please. I use dizzy as my main spammable and I hate the idea of nerfing it's damage just to decrease cast time, it would be a huge nerf to sustain, because you would have to cast it more often to get the same damage, and also have to lose some of your damage to trade for sustain. I actually prefer dizzy for open world play, it's great sustain and good burst for getting rid of people in 1vx. Snb is great sure but I hate how it works in lag, it's so bad, like 90% of my attacks miss because animations get locked when trying to bash cancel. Dizzy is terrible in some situations though sure, it sucks so bad in a 1v1 and in tight places like towers it can be a nightmare since you have no room to stop them walking through you, still better than it working like snb where I can't even land hits though.1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crixus8000 wrote: »No please. I use dizzy as my main spammable and I hate the idea of nerfing it's damage just to decrease cast time, it would be a huge nerf to sustain, because you would have to cast it more often to get the same damage, and also have to lose some of your damage to trade for sustain. I actually prefer dizzy for open world play, it's great sustain and good burst for getting rid of people in 1vx. Snb is great sure but I hate how it works in lag, it's so bad, like 90% of my attacks miss because animations get locked when trying to bash cancel. Dizzy is terrible in some situations though sure, it sucks so bad in a 1v1 and in tight places like towers it can be a nightmare since you have no room to stop them walking through you, still better than it working like snb where I can't even land hits though.
As I said earlier, just reworking Wrecking Blow would be fine. Dizzying can stay as it is now for people who still like attacks that people dodge, or gets cancelled when they LoS mid swing0 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭As I said earlier, just reworking Wrecking Blow would be fine. Dizzying can stay as it is now for people who still like attacks that people dodge, or gets cancelled when they LoS mid swing
Sorry I didn't read through it all. But yes a rework to wrecking blow would be a good idea I think. And Yeah dizzy is so annoying but I still find snb to be even less reliable, I know that's a very unpopular opinion but for me snb locks up almost every fight causing none of my skills to work, and many skills to just miss.
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Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭All cast time skills need to be changed.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Comes in here asking for a bash nerf (LMFAO)... says it doesn't matter how you kill someone... 10/10 logic for sure.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »all i see is bash on the s/b line needs to nerfed.
Yeah right, so that we end up with two bad weapons instead of one good and one bad.
50% more damage with 20% cost reduction for bash is enough and would stop the abuse you see in the ops video.
That doesn't change the fact that its uppercut thats inferior to other spammables.
And excuse me? bash weaving is abuse now? According to who? You?
Nice insult/bait.
I use uppercut on my Stam sorc, always in my top 3 damage done. Never seemed bad. I see no reason that bashing with a shield ought to do as much damage as it does. I mean there is a jewelry enchant that just gives you more weapon damage to your bash, you ought to use that if you want your bash to do as much damage as a regular spammable, not rely on a passive. Give up your regular damage for bash damage. Seems far to me.
You can do light attack-skill-bash combo with any weapon. It just happens that SnB bashing is cheaper and more effective.
This isn't abuse. You're just ridicilous.
Again with the insults/bait.
You get double damage from having a s/b on and almost half the cost. That is huge. Can't do that with all weapons.
True, Its distinct power to SnB. It makes sense cause you are literally bashing with a shield.
Every weapon line has passives to offer unique gameplay. Its not SnB's fault that 2h passives are bad relative to other weapons and cleave/uppercut are unrealiable in PvP.
In case you're too blind to tell, this is a topic about PvP, not PvE. Nobody cares if uppercut is in your top 3 damage done. Parses are meaningless in PvP. I'm not baiting/insulting, you are quite literally crying about bash.
more bait/insulting.
if this is about pvp, who cares what you use to kill the other guy? isnt that point of pvp? to kill the other guy? no one remembers how you did it. all that matter is that you killed the other guy.5 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stellarvorous wrote: »
The Stam sorc/DK that says he uses it there for it must be fine doesn't say in the context of where hes using it.
I'm a stam DK too and I say it NEEDS improvement. Is it broken? no. Is it playable? yes.
is it a good skill? no.
is it on par with other weapon lines? no.
is it worth slotting? depends.August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stellarvorous wrote: »
The Stam sorc/DK that says he uses it there for it must be fine doesn't say in the context of where hes using it.
I'm a stam DK too and I say it NEEDS improvement. Is it broken? no. Is it playable? yes.
is it a good skill? no.
is it on par with other weapon lines? no.
is it worth slotting? depends.
I wouldn't say its not comparable to other weapon lines, at least for PVP. Virtually no one is using Rapid Strikes. Yes people are using Steel Tornado, but they are also using Rally/Momentum and Reverse Slice.
Same goes for Bow, Snipe and Poison Injection see a lot of use, but Draining Shot was really mostly only used by people trying to take advantage of glitches. The "good" pvpers are primarily only using Poison Injection, if they are using the bow at all.
It's only really in PVE that 2H really falls flat, but the bow/bow builds were as rare not to long ago. Shadow Silk synergy has tons of people trying something that they flat out ignored and mocked prior the synergy range change.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..1 -
AlphaCrucis✭✭✭Wow I used uppercut for the first time ever last night in BG and man that was rubbish!
Yes I am a noob and a terrible player, but not being able to hit a single blow AT ALL can’t just be me being s***
Australian, Aldmeri Dominion
Altmer, Dragonknight (mag), Damage Dealer
Brenton, Templar, Healer
Bosmer, Nightblade (stam), Damage Dealer, PvP
PS4, NA Server
Guild Member Of: Brotherhood of Bogans0 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »all i see is bash on the s/b line needs to nerfed.
may as well delete Stam DK then0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Would prefer class spammables because it would feel more unique and would give classes more identity.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.5 -
Stellarvorous✭✭✭Not sure why people would want wrecking blow tweaked but to leave dizzy swing as it is they both suffer from the same issue granted im not requesting zos make either broken or absurdly overpowered but dizzyswing/wreckingblow and the 2 hander skill line in general could all use some tweaks.
I shouldn't have to do a song and dance then follow up with a prayer to Sithis just to make sure my skills connect because they are obscenely hindered by lag since we know zos isn't ever gona solve the server performance issue we gota go to the next workable option the skills lol.
Granted im not requesting it hit every single time if a competent player dodges or uses streak or cloak to get away using what they got I cant fault them for that as annoying as it is.
That being said when I roll towards someone with a 2 hander on my front bar and their eager to fight soon as they see that dizzy swing animation kick back they just run thru me knowing its going to cancel im just sitting there like
*** my life
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Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »Nothing wrong with it.... Seriously. Leave it alone, just learn to use it.
Just because you keep getting hit with it doesn't mean it works fine. Between lag and a lot of counterplay it rarely ever hits.
Im not getting hit with it, i use it on my stamsorc and stamdk so stop with the ***, your moaning about something you obviously dont have the ability to use
So why are you against improving it to work better in lag? How am I supposed to use it when anyone with half a brain can see it being wound up and has an absurd amount of time to react. Dodge, block or even just walk away. Or you have to cancel it in medium because you can take a lot of damage in that window. Maybe you play in a group so you can afford to try tp land it 20 times. I play solo. It's beyond useless.
Find me one good PVPer that thinks the skill is good and uses it. You won't. Can't remember the last time I saw anyone use in PvP. 2h is a back bar weapon for everyone that isn't a stamblade.
Just came to say that 2H is my frontbar, even on a stam sorc.
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Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Would prefer class spammables because it would feel more unique and would give classes more identity.
I agree. I think every class should have a spammable. I also don't get why people think this would lower diversity, as they say all classes should not be the same, but having multiple classes forced to use the same weapon lines does just that. If every class had it's own unique spammable I think it would be much better.
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Bitmun✭✭✭Dizzy definetely should be as it is, it is high risk - high reward offensive ability, basically the only one, that opens up a little chance for 2H be the truly burst weapon in PvP. Dizzying swing has it's own uniqueness, it's balanced and, mainly, fun to use. :P1 -
MentalxHammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭With the confirmation of Carve recieving a greatly deserved 50% damage buff to the spammable portion this skill it may just be the best new 2h spammable option!1 -
Stellarvorous✭✭✭@BitmunDizzy definetely should be as it is, it is high risk - high reward offensive ability, basically the only one, that opens up a little chance for 2H be the truly burst weapon in PvP. Dizzying swing has it's own uniqueness, it's balanced and, mainly, fun to use. :P
I will undoubtedly agree Dizzy swing is a high risk skill but high reward? not so sure considering the means one can utilize to stop from being hit by dizzy swing dodge roll streak cloak pet target block running thru the player to cancel the animation.
On the rare moment it does hit its all down to if you have the damage to make it work correct me if im wrong but PvP atleast PC NA isn't exactly crawling with full divine 2 hander specs.
So in regards to dizzy swing id say High risk Moderate reward at best you might cc them assuming they don't pop a immovable pot.
But by no means is the skill balanced just like wrecking blow it is hindered greatly by lag and people running thru the player to cancel the animation.
When people say its balanced and fun to use it really makes me wonder in what context their referring because I know from first hand experience how hindered it is by lag.
I am going to assume people are meaning *its fun to fight against* because there are so many options to keep from getting hit by it.
Not to mention dawnbreaker of smithing being an issue people running dawnbreaker love to fight dizzy swing as they can literally watch someone cast dizzy swing or wrecking blow and before it hits they can interrupt it with dawnbreaker CC them in return and get the upper hand lol.
All you folks saying its balanced and it should stay as is please post some videos of you fighting and beating competent players with dizzy swing or 2 hander front bar in general because everytime I go to pvp for every 2 hander front bar I see iv come across atleast 20 duel wielders SnBs or range based specs and that is not an exaggeration.
On the off chance someone decides to post some videos of 2 hander Dizzy swing Or Wrecking blow usage im not looking to see you beat up some potatos with 6 players at your back as you push forward like Mel Gibson in Brave Heart I am looking to see fights against *Competent* players who know very well know to counter dizzy swing while you still beat them with it.
Shouldn't be hard to do right? dizzy swing is balanced should stay the way it is because a few folks say it is I expect to see a bunch of videos when I check the thread later on
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Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MentalxHammer wrote: »With the confirmation of Carve recieving a greatly deserved 50% damage buff to the spammable portion this skill it may just be the best new 2h spammable option!
Link? All I have seen is that the bleed is getting buffed by 25% and is only is only the carve morph.
Comes in here asking for a bash nerf (LMFAO)... says it doesn't matter how you kill someone... 10/10 logic for sure.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »all i see is bash on the s/b line needs to nerfed.
Yeah right, so that we end up with two bad weapons instead of one good and one bad.
50% more damage with 20% cost reduction for bash is enough and would stop the abuse you see in the ops video.
That doesn't change the fact that its uppercut thats inferior to other spammables.
And excuse me? bash weaving is abuse now? According to who? You?
Nice insult/bait.
I use uppercut on my Stam sorc, always in my top 3 damage done. Never seemed bad. I see no reason that bashing with a shield ought to do as much damage as it does. I mean there is a jewelry enchant that just gives you more weapon damage to your bash, you ought to use that if you want your bash to do as much damage as a regular spammable, not rely on a passive. Give up your regular damage for bash damage. Seems far to me.
You can do light attack-skill-bash combo with any weapon. It just happens that SnB bashing is cheaper and more effective.
This isn't abuse. You're just ridicilous.
Again with the insults/bait.
You get double damage from having a s/b on and almost half the cost. That is huge. Can't do that with all weapons.
True, Its distinct power to SnB. It makes sense cause you are literally bashing with a shield.
Every weapon line has passives to offer unique gameplay. Its not SnB's fault that 2h passives are bad relative to other weapons and cleave/uppercut are unrealiable in PvP.
In case you're too blind to tell, this is a topic about PvP, not PvE. Nobody cares if uppercut is in your top 3 damage done. Parses are meaningless in PvP. I'm not baiting/insulting, you are quite literally crying about bash.
more bait/insulting.
if this is about pvp, who cares what you use to kill the other guy? isnt that point of pvp? to kill the other guy? no one remembers how you did it. all that matter is that you killed the other guy.
Your cute. I wasn't asking for a bashing nerf. I was commenting on the fact that it is bonkers to me that s/b bash is on par with a spammable and In the video the op is in pve. Was comparing them in pve. PvP is something I don't really comment on and this post ought to have put in the PvP combat and skills part of the forum.
Also, you okay? You seem to be trailing off a lot in this post, what with all the ellipses.0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »MentalxHammer wrote: »With the confirmation of Carve recieving a greatly deserved 50% damage buff to the spammable portion this skill it may just be the best new 2h spammable option!
Link? All I have seen is that the bleed is getting buffed by 25% and is only is only the carve morph.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/466792/update-22-combat-direction/p1
It's at the bottom of the OP.Cleave: (Reworked this ability and its morphs) Damage increased by 50%, but removed the bleed from this base ability completely.Edited by Alucardo on April 8, 2019 8:42AM0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »MentalxHammer wrote: »With the confirmation of Carve recieving a greatly deserved 50% damage buff to the spammable portion this skill it may just be the best new 2h spammable option!
Link? All I have seen is that the bleed is getting buffed by 25% and is only is only the carve morph.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/466792/update-22-combat-direction/p1
It's at the bottom of the OP.Cleave: (Reworked this ability and its morphs) Damage increased by 50%, but removed the bleed from this base ability completely.
Aw man, I read that as decreased the initial hit damage, that made more sense to me considering what they said about dots with direct damage attached to them, like claw. They really need to change uppercut if that is what they go through with buffing cleave like that. That buff would make my base damage is like 8-9k with brawler, easily into spammable territory.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on April 8, 2019 8:49AM0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »MentalxHammer wrote: »With the confirmation of Carve recieving a greatly deserved 50% damage buff to the spammable portion this skill it may just be the best new 2h spammable option!
Link? All I have seen is that the bleed is getting buffed by 25% and is only is only the carve morph.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/466792/update-22-combat-direction/p1
It's at the bottom of the OP.Cleave: (Reworked this ability and its morphs) Damage increased by 50%, but removed the bleed from this base ability completely.
Aw man, I read that as decreased the initial hit damage, that made more sense to me considering what they said about dots with direct damage attached to them, like claw. They really need to change uppercut if that is what they go through with buffing cleave like that. My base damage is like 8-9k right now with brawler.
Yeah, I found it a bit odd they are going to potentially have 2 options for spammable DDs. Cleave was more of a DoT and utility ability, while Uppercut was the main damage dealer.
While I'm happy Cleave will be hitting like a truck now (especially with master 2h), it will make Wrecking Blow (empower morph) even more redundant than it already is.
I think it would have been better to buff Cleave's utility and do something with Wrecking Blow to make it better to use.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »MentalxHammer wrote: »With the confirmation of Carve recieving a greatly deserved 50% damage buff to the spammable portion this skill it may just be the best new 2h spammable option!
Link? All I have seen is that the bleed is getting buffed by 25% and is only is only the carve morph.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/466792/update-22-combat-direction/p1
It's at the bottom of the OP.Cleave: (Reworked this ability and its morphs) Damage increased by 50%, but removed the bleed from this base ability completely.
Aw man, I read that as decreased the initial hit damage, that made more sense to me considering what they said about dots with direct damage attached to them, like claw. They really need to change uppercut if that is what they go through with buffing cleave like that. My base damage is like 8-9k right now with brawler.
Yeah, I found it a bit odd they are going to potentially have 2 options for spammable DDs. Cleave was more of a DoT and utility ability, while Uppercut was the main damage dealer.
While I'm happy Cleave will be hitting like a truck now (especially with master 2h), it will make Wrecking Blow (empower morph) even more redundant than it already is.
I think it would have been better to buff Cleave's utility and do something with Wrecking Blow to make it better to use.
I agree with your point now. It is going to like what is going on in the dual wield tree right now, flurry, the supposed spammable is so bad, mostly because of the odd scaling of the last hit, read more about that here- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/441718/flurry-and-morphs-300-final-hit-not-scaling-correctly-from-percent-amps, that people are using shrouded daggers, the supposed buff/utility skill as the main spammable for that skill line.0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »MentalxHammer wrote: »With the confirmation of Carve recieving a greatly deserved 50% damage buff to the spammable portion this skill it may just be the best new 2h spammable option!
Link? All I have seen is that the bleed is getting buffed by 25% and is only is only the carve morph.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/466792/update-22-combat-direction/p1
It's at the bottom of the OP.Cleave: (Reworked this ability and its morphs) Damage increased by 50%, but removed the bleed from this base ability completely.
Aw man, I read that as decreased the initial hit damage, that made more sense to me considering what they said about dots with direct damage attached to them, like claw. They really need to change uppercut if that is what they go through with buffing cleave like that. My base damage is like 8-9k right now with brawler.
Yeah, I found it a bit odd they are going to potentially have 2 options for spammable DDs. Cleave was more of a DoT and utility ability, while Uppercut was the main damage dealer.
While I'm happy Cleave will be hitting like a truck now (especially with master 2h), it will make Wrecking Blow (empower morph) even more redundant than it already is.
I think it would have been better to buff Cleave's utility and do something with Wrecking Blow to make it better to use.
I agree with your point now. It is going to like what is going on in the dual wield tree right now, flurry, the supposed spammable is so bad, mostly because of the odd scaling of the last hit, read more about that here- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/441718/flurry-and-morphs-300-final-hit-not-scaling-correctly-from-percent-amps, that people are using shrouded daggers, the supposed buff/utility skill as the main spammable for that skill line.
Ahhh, I always wondered why that ability felt like trash. Interesting. And yeah, exactly. You take a look at the weapon trees, and it can be hard to distinguish what is supposed to be the spammable DD.
Of course at first glance in the 2h tree you'd expect Uppercut. But many people use this primarily as a buff bar and execute. In the DW tree you'd expect rapid strikes, but it's rending slashes and steel tornado.
In the Bow tree you'd expect snipe, but it's poison injection and draining shot.
It's because they make the primary DD abilities clunky to use, so people fall back to the utility ones, which still have adequate tooltip numbers.0 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭yeah Cleave is going to kill Uppercut right there and then.........
.......unless they're doing something with Uppercut too. Wheeler said Cleave changes is just ONE EXAMPLE.
I'm crossing all my fingers.
In the meantime, who wants to go vDSA with me?? I need me some Master 2H!!! (I kept spamming Craglorn in PC NA and no one is doing vDSA....)August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber0