Dont pug, save the frustration

I never do vet dungeons with more than 1 pug, its simply not worth the time or pain dealing with more than 1 leech

At least with 3 ppl, vote kicks will go through 100perc without worrying

Also, 3 ppl can carry 1 bad person most of the time anyways

I've seen some high cp players pulling atrocious dps. Theyre either on their backs dead the whole dungeon or Literally on their bow spamming light attacks and every once in a while, I see a dps with sword and board, they're either pvp leeches or role players and it's super cringe. Some players just played for a long time and never cared to get better at dps. They're fine with cruising clears while other players carry them

Not saying every low cp is a bad player, but low cp players are usually the less experienced low dps players compared to getting max cp pugs

Agree. CP should be raised but not to 350-400. 160 should be enough for most base game dungeons.
There is little point in doing vet dungeon before 160 since all drops would be useless in few levels anyway.
It's one thing learning with newbies vet CoA1 or FG1, but Banished Cells 2, Tempest Island or something similar usually turns to a nightmare. Most of the time ending with kicks/disbands and toxicity.

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

it would be nice for dlc dungeons if there was at least something like a cp 500+ option...

There already is!
form your own group!

Parrot1986 wrote: »

If you make them wait until 350-400CP all you will have is a 350-400CP slowing you down because they won’t have had any practice in Vet, real appreciation for mechanics or rotations since Normal either just melts or doesn’t punish you. The learning curve has to start somewhere and I’m fine with base dungeons being available from CP10 to be honest

If I PUG I take what I get since I know it’s a risk. If I can’t be bothered taking the risk I run with guilds.

Don’t agree we should raise the cap anymore, especially since most dungeons have been nerfed to oblivion now anyways.

That summed up everything that I wanted to say.

If I don't want to roll the dice in the RDF I'll simply make a group. If I want a speed run, no death, etc, I'll just make a group.

By using the RDF I'm accepting that I may be paired with someone new, inexperienced, or maybe just isn't all that good. That's fine, we all started somewhere.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

That 350-400 is unnecessary and way too high. 300CP means that character can pretty much do every content well if geared right and with enough skill/experience. It's because at 300CP your stats will have been boosted by 20% in total (which doesn't continue beyond 300CP). All the DLC dungeons are already locked on vet for people below 160CP if I remember correctly, so all the dungeons that are left really shouldn't be an issue. If there is at least one competent player around, you'll make it regardless which one it is.
Also, you do realize that putting that lock there means banning Monster sets from everyone below 300CP? What do you even start doing undaunted pledges since lvl45 for if the rewards only become worth it at 300CP (as opposed to 160). You've essentially more than doubled the wait time there as each new CP takes more XP than the last one to get.

You could be right about cp350 being too high. The minimum should still be at least cp300 then imo. And cp160 isn't the current minimum...I was put in a vet group with a cp10 dps just yesterday.

About the ability to acquire monster sets being pushed back: I really don't see why it shouldn't be the case. Having your monster set done is pretty much the last step to gearing for most people unless they're really serious gamers and want to do trials and stuff.

I don't want to just "make it" when I queue for dungeons. I work long hours irl and want to make the most of my time playing. I wasted so much time yesterday queuing vets with my tank because I kept getting put in groups with low cp dps. Wayrest II for example: one cp100ish dps kept getting one-shotted from trash mob aoe's (player had ~17000hp with food). It took us forever just to get to the first boss because the dps was so low on the trash mobs otw. Then when we finally got to the first boss, they kept dying from the boss's red pools. This player clearly needed to spend more time doing normals so they could get better gear and use more cp to reinforce their character.

I'm not saying there aren't exceptions but in the majority of my experiences, the ones dragging the group behind are low cp dps. They tend to die more often from mechanics, and take forever to kill anything.

And again...I don't think I'm better than anyone. That's not what I'm saying here. I put in my work and got my feet wet and learned the mechanics on normals until I was ready to do vets. I just wish more people would do the same instead of expecting people to carry them. But since I can change people's mindsets, the next best solution is for ZOS to cp gate vets in the dungeon finder.

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Interesting. I just got someone their first Vet dungeon HM clear in Wayrest II. A CP236. To each their own.

As I said in the op, anyone should be allowed to do vets in a pre-made group. I've taken my lower cp friends into vets to get undaunted achievements and get their Undaunted Mettle quicker. All I'm talking about is random queues. If someone is queuing for a vet random, they really shouldn't be low cp or they're usually just leeching and hoping for a carry at other people's expense.

tizodd wrote: »

Players should need to be cp350+400 to queue for vets. I'm so tired of slowly drudging through vets with low cp dps. And no, I'm not some elitist who forgot where he came from...I got my feet wet on normals before getting into vets because I figured I'd be nothing more than a leech until I got some decent gear sets and higher cp. I didn't do my first vet until I was cp400+.

Now...I know that people like to be contrary and disagree for the sake of disagreeing but please hear me out and think about it logically before jumping at the chance to argue. Having a cp10 player in a vet dungeon is largely a waste of time (I got grouped with a cp10 today). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed if friends want to try their luck at low cp. By all means, a pre-formed group should have the freedom to try if they want to. But for dungeon finder, there really should be a minimum cp for vet dungeons.

Lately I've been leaving when I get grouped with two low cp dps'ers in a vet. I just don't feel like wasting all the time reviving them and/or waiting for them to do enough dps to actually kill things.

Sorry but you do have a small missconseption here.

If someone is low CP doesn't mean is by default not a good player, or wont do damage. Similarly I can personally point at you (on EU server) hundrends of CP810s DDs, which I can outdamage in normal (not even vet) dungeons with my Level 20 toons, let alone my Templar tank and Templar Healer. (CP750 atm)

There are as many not so good mid range CPplayers as many good low CP who try hard and perform better.

mairwen85 wrote: »

Lower CP dps isn't the problem. It's survivability, those defensive boosts are where the real CP power is. My CP315 magplar dps on pc is pulling 30k, but is far squishier than my near identical build CP810 on xbox - - dps differs by ~5-6k; and that is likely mostly contributed to by vma staff + Grothdarr which I haven't got for my lower yet.

That said, increased survivability == more consistency and higher performance. But that wasn't the core of the argument presented.

This, remember doing vBC1 and none know the mechanic behind the one shot.
Got an replacement tank who was max cp, his perma blocking advice was not very good for my healer as I could not get out of stupid being out of stamina.
Went back to normals for some time.
And vBC1 is one of the few dungeons who need an small nerf, just because its an 1 dungeon

tonyblack wrote: »

Agree. CP should be raised but not to 350-400. 160 should be enough for most base game dungeons.
There is little point in doing vet dungeon before 160 since all drops would be useless in few levels anyway.
It's one thing learning with newbies vet CoA1 or FG1, but Banished Cells 2, Tempest Island or something similar usually turns to a nightmare. Most of the time ending with kicks/disbands and toxicity.

Yes that makes sense, do the normal dlc from lvl 45 to cp 160
Also then leveling gear tend to be bad. All the alts and medium cp players doing random normals for xp don't help the noobs either as they make normal dungeons idiotic easy.
And that fake tanking is ok Yes it works in normal if you know that you are doing.

tizodd wrote: »

Players should need to be cp350+400 to queue for vets. I'm so tired of slowly drudging through vets with low cp dps. And no, I'm not some elitist who forgot where he came from...I got my feet wet on normals before getting into vets because I figured I'd be nothing more than a leech until I got some decent gear sets and higher cp. I didn't do my first vet until I was cp400+.

Now...I know that people like to be contrary and disagree for the sake of disagreeing but please hear me out and think about it logically before jumping at the chance to argue. Having a cp10 player in a vet dungeon is largely a waste of time (I got grouped with a cp10 today). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed if friends want to try their luck at low cp. By all means, a pre-formed group should have the freedom to try if they want to. But for dungeon finder, there really should be a minimum cp for vet dungeons.

Lately I've been leaving when I get grouped with two low cp dps'ers in a vet. I just don't feel like wasting all the time reviving them and/or waiting for them to do enough dps to actually kill things.

This is not a solution. I see just as many high level CP players with poor DPS as lower CP players. All this proposed fix would do is unfairly discriminate against players under 350 CP. It would also deprive groups of a lot of potential DPSers who are good at their role.

Chaos2088 wrote: »

I do get you, kind of. But got to see what they do before you leave?

For example a friend of mine bought and 2nd account for the jollies, we managed to do vet cradel of shadows with a no death run and they were cp 65! Because they knew what they were doing.

Unless I'm really pressed for time, I do give them a chance to prove they can pull their weight.

On a related note (this isn't directed at you Chaos2088): Commenters in this thread keep mentioning exceptions where higher cp dps is pulling low numbers, or low cp dps is pulling high numbers but their arguments are really disingenuous. It feels like arguing for the sake of arguing. They're pointing out outliers and exceptions like those are the norms. It's like saying sometimes cars crash, so getting in a car is essentially suicide.

Anyone who's had a decent amount of experience running vets knows the truth. It's usually the low cp dps who ends up not pulling their weight. Pointing out the few exceptions in an attempt to and strengthen your argument is not doing your argument any justice. You're grasping at straws.

I 100% agree that, cp =/= skill. I've never stated otherwise. But it would be unwise for any of us to claim that cp never means anything at all. 9 times out of 10, cp means the person has spent a lot of time playing the game; has done a decent amount of things in the game; and has some basic knowledge of the game. This is USUALLY (more often than not) the case. Low cp usually means the person has less game experience/knowledge and probably hasn't optimized their build/gear sets. Again...I'm not saying this is the situation 100% of the time, but we can safely and logically say it's usually the case.

Blacksmoke wrote: »

350 hahaha

This added a lot to the discussion.

Lol didnt some group just do mol without cp on?

Militan1404 wrote: »

Lol didnt some group just do mol without cp on?

Again...there will always be outliers and exceptions. I'm referring to the average player, not meta groups that know game mechanics in and out.