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Please Raise the cp Minimum for Vet Dungeons
tizodd
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Players should need to be cp350+400 to queue for vets. I'm so tired of slowly drudging through vets with low cp dps. And no, I'm not some elitist who forgot where he came from...I got my feet wet on normals before getting into vets because I figured I'd be nothing more than a leech until I got some decent gear sets and higher cp. I didn't do my first vet until I was cp400+.
Now...I know that people like to be contrary and disagree for the sake of disagreeing but please hear me out and think about it logically before jumping at the chance to argue. Having a cp10 player in a vet dungeon is largely a waste of time (I got grouped with a cp10 today). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed if friends want to try their luck at low cp. By all means, a pre-formed group should have the freedom to try if they want to. But for dungeon finder, there really should be a minimum cp for vet dungeons.
Lately I've been leaving when I get grouped with two low cp dps'ers in a vet. I just don't feel like wasting all the time reviving them and/or waiting for them to do enough dps to actually kill things.
Now...I know that people like to be contrary and disagree for the sake of disagreeing but please hear me out and think about it logically before jumping at the chance to argue. Having a cp10 player in a vet dungeon is largely a waste of time (I got grouped with a cp10 today). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed if friends want to try their luck at low cp. By all means, a pre-formed group should have the freedom to try if they want to. But for dungeon finder, there really should be a minimum cp for vet dungeons.
Lately I've been leaving when I get grouped with two low cp dps'ers in a vet. I just don't feel like wasting all the time reviving them and/or waiting for them to do enough dps to actually kill things.
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Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cp 300 is where the system scales at to give minual returns after.
Can't be less then cp 160 in harder dungeons.
Where do you encounter issues? Which dungeons.3 -
tizodd✭✭✭Cp 300 is where the system scales at to give minual returns after.
Can't be less then cp 160 in harder dungeons.
Where do you encounter issues? Which dungeons.
I think you're misreading my post. I haven't had any issues completing dungeons. I've had issues with low cp players doing vets before they're properly geared and leveled up.8 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cp 300 is where the system scales at to give minual returns after.
Can't be less then cp 160 in harder dungeons.
Where do you encounter issues? Which dungeons.
I think you're misreading my post. I haven't had any issues completing dungeons. I've had issues with low cp players doing vets before they're properly geared and leveled up.
It's a mentally issue to not properly gear up till 160. This is advice given to all new players. This is because how system battle scales people. The root of problem should be fixed I think.4 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That 350-400 is unnecessary and way too high. 300CP means that character can pretty much do every content well if geared right and with enough skill/experience. It's because at 300CP your stats will have been boosted by 20% in total (which doesn't continue beyond 300CP). All the DLC dungeons are already locked on vet for people below 160CP if I remember correctly, so all the dungeons that are left really shouldn't be an issue. If there is at least one competent player around, you'll make it regardless which one it is.
Also, you do realize that putting that lock there means banning Monster sets from everyone below 300CP? What do you even start doing undaunted pledges since lvl45 for if the rewards only become worth it at 300CP (as opposed to 160). You've essentially more than doubled the wait time there as each new CP takes more XP than the last one to get.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.23 -
wishlist14✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nothing beats practice and experience. You can get to cp level 300 and never have stepped into a dungeon just by killing mobs out in the world. So imo, it's not neccessarily the cp level that determines skill but in vet dungeons I think it's about how much damage the dps can do or how much healing the healer can do, without dying so much that it taxes the group. Not dying comes down to knowing fight mechanics and being situationally aware aswell as knowing when to roll dodge and block etc and knowing how to manage your resources so you last until the boss is dead. You do your part right and so do your team members and it runs smoothly.So basically, when it comes to how long the fights last it is determined by dps. So yes cp does matter here as does gear and skills, rotation. So in other words, you need to have a viable build. It's the same for a healer and tank but I have been in vet dungeons where a tank literally carried half the group...they were that op.
Let's say someone goes into vet dungeon who is dps but has put all their cp into healing and tanking trees. They are magicka but use stamina food buff and are wearing green training gear with duel wield and a 2h.They have watched many vids on the fights and feel ready as they are 600cp. They feel they can do this.
Edited by wishlist14 on April 6, 2019 2:50AM5 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If I have a problem with how another player is playing, that’s entirely my fault. It is unreasonable for me to demand other players conform to my personal expectations. The solution is for me to get over myself, or to leave.
You have the same options.36 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CP is a terrible measure of DPS. Most of the CP 810's I see in random vet dungeons are pulling <10k.
I also have a low CP alt account that does over 40k on most vet dungeon bosses.6 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »CP is a terrible measure of DPS. Most of the CP 810's I see in random vet dungeons are pulling <10k.
I also have a low CP alt account that does over 40k on most vet dungeon bosses.
It's all border cases. From my experience, it's really rare when cp810 in random vet doesn't have 15-20k. And cp300 is usually a mess dying to single breeze of wind and doing 7-12k. Yes there are low dps cp810 and stormproof cp200 twinks. But in practice group of 4 cp700+ almost guarantees fast and easy run in any vets aside from few new ones. While group of cp200-400 usually struggles to complete HM in base1 dungeons...
Still, I agree that there is no point to limit dungeons by CP. Profoundibob's idea with "certification" is much better.8 -
LeagueTroll✭✭✭✭✭Cp is a terrible measure, half the high cp are simply trash, and cap cp mediocre are entiled AF.
Often see 20k cp cap dps flame low cp healer, i have to take a stand for the healer.4 -
LeagueTroll✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »CP is a terrible measure of DPS. Most of the CP 810's I see in random vet dungeons are pulling <10k.
I also have a low CP alt account that does over 40k on most vet dungeon bosses.
It's all border cases. From my experience, it's really rare when cp810 in random vet doesn't have 15-20k. And cp300 is usually a mess dying to single breeze of wind and doing 7-12k. Yes there are low dps cp810 and stormproof cp200 twinks. But in practice group of 4 cp700+ almost guarantees fast and easy run in any vets aside from few new ones. While group of cp200-400 usually struggles to complete HM in base1 dungeons...
Still, I agree that there is no point to limit dungeons by CP. Profoundibob's idea with "certification" is much better.
15k-20k is horrible, if you think those can bring u fast runs, i feel sry for u.3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Don't PUG as a support. DPS can easily solo any non-DLC vet dungeon (and even some of the easier DLC ones) so you aren't reliant on teammates.Edited by MLGProPlayer on April 6, 2019 4:10AM3 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Pretty pointless to gear up hard before cp160 as you level out gear.Cp 300 is where the system scales at to give minual returns after.
Can't be less then cp 160 in harder dungeons.
Where do you encounter issues? Which dungeons.
I think you're misreading my post. I haven't had any issues completing dungeons. I've had issues with low cp players doing vets before they're properly geared and leveled up.
It's a mentally issue to not properly gear up till 160. This is advice given to all new players. This is because how system battle scales people. The root of problem should be fixed I think.
Also a bit pointless doing vet dungeons before cp160
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.3 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Interesting. I just got someone their first Vet dungeon HM clear in Wayrest II. A CP236. To each their own.2 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LeagueTroll wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »CP is a terrible measure of DPS. Most of the CP 810's I see in random vet dungeons are pulling <10k.
I also have a low CP alt account that does over 40k on most vet dungeon bosses.
It's all border cases. From my experience, it's really rare when cp810 in random vet doesn't have 15-20k. And cp300 is usually a mess dying to single breeze of wind and doing 7-12k. Yes there are low dps cp810 and stormproof cp200 twinks. But in practice group of 4 cp700+ almost guarantees fast and easy run in any vets aside from few new ones. While group of cp200-400 usually struggles to complete HM in base1 dungeons...
Still, I agree that there is no point to limit dungeons by CP. Profoundibob's idea with "certification" is much better.
15k-20k is horrible, if you think those can bring u fast runs, i feel sry for u.
I feel sorry for you that you are speaking nonsense, not related to topic. Added to ignore list.16 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Interesting. I just got someone their first Vet dungeon HM clear in Wayrest II. A CP236. To each their own.
And we often take our below CP300 active newbies to get dlc helms/trial gear, so they are doing 30k+ quite early and have all those titles. But again only small % of newbies is active, majority don't want to do harder content before they reach high CP.2 -
Parrot1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you make them wait until 350-400CP all you will have is a 350-400CP slowing you down because they won’t have had any practice in Vet, real appreciation for mechanics or rotations since Normal either just melts or doesn’t punish you. The learning curve has to start somewhere and I’m fine with base dungeons being available from CP10 to be honest
If I PUG I take what I get since I know it’s a risk. If I can’t be bothered taking the risk I run with guilds.
Don’t agree we should raise the cap anymore, especially since most dungeons have been nerfed to oblivion now anyways.Edited by Parrot1986 on April 6, 2019 6:29AM3 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Interesting. I just got someone their first Vet dungeon HM clear in Wayrest II. A CP236. To each their own.
And we often take our below CP300 active newbies to get dlc helms/trial gear, so they are doing 30k+ quite early and have all those titles. But again only small % of newbies is active, majority don't want to do harder content before they reach high CP.
To be fair he didn't have a choice lol. He was pretty chill though, we told him not to worry about making a mistake as we had a good healer. He actually had fun which was nice.0 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@tizodd, if you have your own specific requirements for completing vet DLC dungeons, you don’t use the dungeon finder. Period.
You’re the one that needs to find a pre-made group with friends or guildies ... not the other players who wanted to queue and give it a try.
Asking ZOS to change the dungeon finder to fit your playstyle probably isn’t going to end well.
Edited by Taleof2Cities on April 6, 2019 7:00AM22 -
Gythral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Please stop PUGing
issue solved
& there are far more terrible 810s than poor 300s, as they are grind to max or just not played alts
“Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy11 -
cynaes✭✭✭I agree that vet dungeons differ greatly in difficulty. And new players are sometimes undergeared. But I don't think a flat increase is the solution. I'd love to see a progression for vet dungeons akin to the one for normal dungeons. Jumping from lvl 49 normal Fungal Grotto to vet Banished Cells 2 is quite the jump.0 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
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No, it’s because new players read the forums and get intimidated by dumb threads like theseMartiniDaniels wrote: »
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Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is why you don’t run support roles on pugs. Non-dlc dungeons are generally easy to solo anyway.1 -
ThePlayer✭✭✭✭The problem is the mixture that exists in the game between pvp and pve, pvp roles that are believed to be good in certain dlc vet and instead only create time wasting, the same for pve players who go to die miserably in BG.
At the moment the only solution to avoid this random waste of time is to do veteran dungeons (at least the + difficult ones) with players who know each other in the guilds.0 -
Slunksters✭✭If I have a problem with how another player is playing, that’s entirely my fault. It is unreasonable for me to demand other players conform to my personal expectations. The solution is for me to get over myself, or to leave.
You have the same options.
I can only disagree, you are queuing for vet dungeon, you don't queue for dungeon to fail them, you actually queue to finish them. If YOU queue and can't perform YOUR role, this is not the resoonszbility of your group to leave. This is the most stupid "I'm a special snowflake" thing I read today, tho I just woke up.
As long as the other person is performing there role well enough to complete the dungeon, I couldn't care less and should not anyway.
Now, when I'm tanking with ebon + plague doctor , full tank skills and I'm doing 30% of my group DPS, I'm not the problem, and I have the right to wonder why the hell the DD I got matched with do nothing and if even after telling them everything I can to teach them the mechanics we can't finish the dungeon because THEY can't do what THEY queued for....
It's not about conforming to my personal standards, it to ask them to uphold the standards they set to themselves by queuing for a role, songbirds have a problem with someone not doing the job they chose to do, it's their fault.
Edited by Slunksters on April 6, 2019 12:33PM7 -
Slunksters✭✭This is why you don’t run support roles on pugs. Non-dlc dungeons are generally easy to solo anyway.
You would be surprised how fun it is to do random dlc vet as tank, most group can do the dungeon, it take some time, but it's satisfying to see your group slowly improve and complete it.4 -
Slunksters✭✭Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »
No, it’s because new players read the forums and get intimidated by dumb threads like theseMartiniDaniels wrote: »
Best example would be vMA, everyone think it's that super hard impossible to do content, when the only difficulty is to learn where thing spawn and then it's just easier and easier.3 -
Ysbriel✭✭✭✭✭The problem is not entirely the CP, and 300cp is a sweet spot. The problem is organization, proper equipment, dungeon knowledge and practice. A lot of people reach 300pc they read a certain build requires this helmet and just want to give the dungeon a go on Vet and if in their normal dungeon days they simple stormed through with other people without a chance to even learn the mechanics well its a rude awakening for them and even sometimes people land on a Vet dungeon and its their first time there. Some people don’t even know how much DPS their are actually doing because they haven’t done a single parse on a dummy or don’t have combat metrics and just go with the damage output they see pop up and well “hey i cleared Fungal on Vet, Malatar should be a breeze”1 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lower CP dps isn't the problem. It's survivability, those defensive boosts are where the real CP power is. My CP315 magplar dps on pc is pulling 30k, but is far squishier than my near identical build CP810 on xbox - - dps differs by ~5-6k; and that is likely mostly contributed to by vma staff + Grothdarr which I haven't got for my lower yet.
That said, increased survivability == more consistency and higher performance. But that wasn't the core of the argument presented.Edited by mairwen85 on April 6, 2019 11:01AM2
