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At what point you think the game would become P2W?
Kombinator
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1. Ability to buy XP booster scrolls. After all leveling to max. CP takes quite a time, and this is greatly reduces it.
2. Ability to buy skillpoints.
3. Ability to buy level token. Instant lvl50.
4. Ability to buy XP token. Gives XP equal to random dungeon.
5. Ability to buy story token. All quest, and story instantly completed in region, and you get their rewards. Can't use for main quest, and multi-region quests.
6. Ability to buy Quest complete token. Target accepted quest instantly gets finished, and rewards gets provided.
7. Ability to buy Gold.
8. Ability to buy Non-epic gear.
9. Ability to buy epic gear.
10. Ability to buy end-game gear.
11. Ability to buy attributes.
2. Ability to buy skillpoints.
3. Ability to buy level token. Instant lvl50.
4. Ability to buy XP token. Gives XP equal to random dungeon.
5. Ability to buy story token. All quest, and story instantly completed in region, and you get their rewards. Can't use for main quest, and multi-region quests.
6. Ability to buy Quest complete token. Target accepted quest instantly gets finished, and rewards gets provided.
7. Ability to buy Gold.
8. Ability to buy Non-epic gear.
9. Ability to buy epic gear.
10. Ability to buy end-game gear.
11. Ability to buy attributes.
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Parrot1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭For me P2W is either allowing someone to purchase exclusive store items with real money that they are stronger than those in game or purchasing gear obtained in game with real life money.
Whilst I don’t agree with buying skyshards or skillines for those you’ve already done I see this more as pay to progress/convenience. Probably not a difference to some and still something I really don’t like.20 -
Dragneel1207✭✭✭✭its already p2W when sets like zaan ,earthengore are behind paywall which are OP and that is the 10th point u mentioned11 -
HappyLittleTree✭✭✭✭✭
✭Exclusive Store items that give a major advantage ingame. like a scroll with all buffs or crown store exclusive sets.
Or to buy any set in store.Thuu chakkuth lod Hajhiit c’oo? Hajhiit gortsuquth gorihuth thuu gooluthduj thdeitoluu!
XBox-EU1 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Answers.1. Ability to buy XP booster scrolls. After all leveling to max. CP takes quite a time, and this is greatly reduces it.
Nope.
2. Ability to buy skillpoints.
Varies. The way ZOS is doing it now, not really. If it was direct SP or early gains of new SP for new accounts maybe.
3. Ability to buy level token. Instant lvl50.
Nope.
4. Ability to buy XP token. Gives XP equal to random dungeon.
Nope.
5. Ability to buy story token. All quest, and story instantly completed in region, and you get their rewards. Can't use for main quest, and multi-region quests.
Nope.
6. Ability to buy Quest complete token. Target accepted quest instantly gets finished, and rewards gets provided.
Nope.
7. Ability to buy Gold.
Varies. Already in the game any way.
8. Ability to buy Non-epic gear.
Yes.*
9. Ability to buy epic gear.
Yes.*
10. Ability to buy end-game gear.
Yes.*
11. Ability to buy attributes.
Yes, if these are additional to ones you get normally.
For me it's when they start selling statistical bonuses which are equal or superior to what is achievable in the game.
Most of the items on the list even if I consider them P2W would still require a good player in order for them to be effective. You could sell all the Maelstrom staves you want, but if the person sucks at rotations it won't matter.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."9 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭P2W items are those that make you better than other players.
They are either not available to non-paying players, or are hidden behind difficult content or an unreasonable grind.Edited by MLGProPlayer on April 5, 2019 8:36AM15 -
Merlight✭✭✭✭✭March 17, 2015
EU ‣ Wabbajack nostalgic ‣ Blackwater Blade defender ‣ Kyne wanderer
The offspring of the root of all evil in ESO by DeanTheCat
Why ESO needs a monthly subscription
When an MMO is designed around a revenue model rather than around fun, it doesn’t have a long-term future. ― Richard A. Bartle
Their idea of transparent, at least when it comes to communication, bears a striking resemblance to a block of coal. ― lordrichter
... in the balance of power between the accountants and marketing types against the artists, developers and those who generally want to build and run a good game then that balance needs to always be in favour of the latter - because the former will drag the game into the ground for every last bean they can squeeze out of it. ― Santie Claws0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When we can get items in the crown store that make our characters stronger than they can be in game. Stronger armor, enchants, spells, etc.
Zos has not done that at all.
P2W is typical of cheap F2P games and ESO is neither cheaply made nor F2P.Edited by idk on April 5, 2019 9:05AM4 -
Ollowaiin2✭✭✭We're already on the edge to p2w, because many people buy gold for crowns. That gold gives them the ability to buy end game gear/many achievements. It got worth with the Option to send crown störe presents.3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ollowaiin2 wrote: »We're already on the edge to p2w, because many people buy gold for crowns. That gold gives them the ability to buy end game gear/many achievements. It got worth with the Option to send crown störe presents.
This has nothing to do with P2W. Nothing. What you state does nothing to make the person stronger than what they could have been in game. They have no advantage over you.Edited by idk on April 5, 2019 9:16AM4 -
ChuckyPayne✭✭✭✭If we look at it, all of it pay to win, but of course no, because these are not excliseve. You can do, you can reach wihtout pay.
The real question here is, what is/would bother u?!0 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
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If gold gave you the ability to win then Blobs would be on the top of every leaderboard in the game.Ollowaiin2 wrote: »We're already on the edge to p2w, because many people buy gold for crowns. That gold gives them the ability to buy end game gear/many achievements. It got worth with the Option to send crown störe presents.
@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."2 -
lelink88✭✭✭You guy realize that all game locked behind paywall right? WoW in examble , you don't pay you don't play ? 15$ sub each month and 60$ for expansion, you pay 150$ per year to play ? ESO , you pay 60$ for expansion and 15-45$ for DLC you NEED , you pay 75-120$ per year to play well ? The good things in WoW and ESO is, you CAN'T pay MORE (Cosmetic doesn't count, because you don't need it) , in WoW case, you CAN'T even pay less, but in ESO you CAN pay less ( 10$ for basegame, and that's all).
1 game consider P2W when player can pay unlimited amount of money to play better and better. Examble BDO and every other Korean game. In BDO case you can grind to catch up rich player, however consider your labor payment is 5$ per hours, you need 8 hours per day and 30 day per month, then it cost you 5x8x30~1200$ per month to play with other player, bcos PvP is BDO engame. That's why it still P2W
Nothing FREE. But don't stupid enough to buy thing expensive. you guy not complain about P2W, you guy complain about why some game price is reasonable and the other is so expensive to play WELL .
Edited by lelink88 on April 5, 2019 9:34AM6 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well, there is a thin line between "Pay to Win" and "Pay For Convenience".
Since the recent news about skyshards to be available in the crown store, it may be only a matter of time before ESO may go full P2W.
One example of pure P2W point that is already in the game:
*Ability to buy Gold.
You have this through crown store gifting.
One of the most obvious P2W elements in ESO.
Players buy crown packs and trade the items for gold.
I know that many will disagree, but in-game currency shouldn't be allowed to be traded for real money.
While Gold is not directly related to combat, it is very useful for gaming activities, such as crafting, buying new armor pieces, upgrading weapons and armor etc.
I suggested countless times to disallow this form of trade or restrict the number of gifts an account can send.
But ZOS turn a blind eye and do nothing.
This form of trading is really bad for the game.Edited by Universe on April 5, 2019 9:22AMSome videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince1 -
Ollowaiin2✭✭✭They paid real life money to get an advantage in the game. It is obtainable ingame, but would take a loong time to get a few Million gold. This system is unfair In my opinion, because it gives then a major advantage.
It would be easier, if you write why it has nothing to do with p2w.1 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For me P2W is not something "digital' or binary (0 or 1, something is P2W or is not).
For me it is something of % value. So something can be P2W... but it is so small that is irelevant.
Lets not forget that there are different aspects of P2W. Most people tend to think that something is P2W only when it gives combat advantage... but combat is not every aspect of the game.
Look at housing for example. Is ESO+ that gives 2x furnishing slots a P2W when it comes to housing ? Of course it is. House owned by ESO+ user will be always better decorated & functional vs house owned by regular player.
When it comes to crafting - it is pretty much the same. ESO+ user will be able to do crafting on multiple characters faster than non ESO+ player.
Speaking of "fast" the same goes for leveling. ESO+ will be able to level up faster (ESO+ xp bonus).
Now look. The important thing to ask is: is it P2W ? Yes. Imho it is. But it is so low of a % value that it is irelevent. And I am actually glad that ZOS has chosen to make those P2W aspectes of the game at almost irelevant level.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on April 5, 2019 9:47AM1 -
stevenyaub16_ESO✭✭✭✭I don't count ESO+ as P2W. It's just a subscription content that allows you access to all DLC for cheaper than buying them separately.
The base game is cheap and you get so much content (100+ hrs of quests etc) so If you want to continue your journey then Sub or buy more content.
As for P2W only when you can pay for end-game gear is when things get murky. You can already buy gold from other players (through crown gifting) and you can then buy overland gear from other players (traders).
The thing is what exactly are you winning? In PvE you obtain gear so you can do better in trials etc, but if you buy it all and don't do trials then what is the harm? End-game PvE gear doesn't perform well in PvP so you aren't really winning anything... Buying end-game gear for solo questing? Well you are not competing against anyone.
Getting to CP cap? Well theres non-CP cyrodil and BGs are non-CP.
Theres nothing I see you are you paying to win against..2 -
Merlight✭✭✭✭✭
If gold gave you the ability to win then Blobs would be on the top of every leaderboard in the game.Ollowaiin2 wrote: »We're already on the edge to p2w, because many people buy gold for crowns. That gold gives them the ability to buy end game gear/many achievements. It got worth with the Option to send crown störe presents.
That's a shallow argument, uncharacteristic of you. Maybe we should find a more descriptive term, so that even smart people like you don't misinterpret pay-to-win as buying rank on leaderboard. Those who pay to win still compete among themselves. If some of them end up losing, that doesn't change what they paid for.
EU ‣ Wabbajack nostalgic ‣ Blackwater Blade defender ‣ Kyne wanderer
The offspring of the root of all evil in ESO by DeanTheCat
Why ESO needs a monthly subscription
When an MMO is designed around a revenue model rather than around fun, it doesn’t have a long-term future. ― Richard A. Bartle
Their idea of transparent, at least when it comes to communication, bears a striking resemblance to a block of coal. ― lordrichter
... in the balance of power between the accountants and marketing types against the artists, developers and those who generally want to build and run a good game then that balance needs to always be in favour of the latter - because the former will drag the game into the ground for every last bean they can squeeze out of it. ― Santie Claws2 -
Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
✭It will become P2W when Zenimax sells it to some F2P online game publisher.PC - EU - France - AD
Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.
All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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That is standard practice and would have made any MMO with expansions P2W.Dragneel1207 wrote: »its already p2W when sets like zaan ,earthengore are behind paywall which are OP and that is the 10th point u mentioned
Note that in say WOW you can not even touch the endgame without the expansions.
Selling them directly in crown store would be P2W even if you can get it in game but its hard for stuff like perfected weapons.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
bzz86✭✭✭✭Dragneel1207 wrote: »its already p2W when sets like zaan ,earthengore are behind paywall which are OP and that is the 10th point u mentioned
How is that pay-to-win ? The sets are in DLC-s that if you don't have make no difference as you would not play any DLC content where these sets would be "better". If you dont have DLCs you would play base content so the "better" monster sets like Zaan or Earthgore would not impact your gameplay. Yes they would make you "stronger" than other players that dont have the DLC but it would not affect the game experience at all. Not having them makes no difference to the gameplay at all so it cannot be called P2W.3 -
WatchYourSixx✭✭✭✭ESO would have to sell crown store exclusive skills and gear that is equal or better than anything else for the game to be pay to win imo. Anything else is just convenience in my bookThe only thing to fear is, fear itself. - FDR
CP 800
PC NA
- Maximus the Marksman (AD) Temp
- Rex the Unstoppable Force (DC) DK
- Sodor Dragonfire (DC) DK
- Masha'Dar Shadow-Paw (DC) NB
- Magnus the Mage (DC) Sorc2 -
Hotel6✭✭✭p2w isnt progressive items it's items that u buy that has advantage on other players. I do hate the fact that an MMO locks a new class bh a paywall.1
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Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dragneel1207 wrote: »its already p2W when sets like zaan ,earthengore are behind paywall which are OP and that is the 10th point u mentioned
How is that pay-to-win ? The sets are in DLC-s that if you don't have make no difference as you would not play any DLC content where these sets would be "better". If you dont have DLCs you would play base content so the "better" monster sets like Zaan or Earthgore would not impact your gameplay. Yes they would make you "stronger" than other players that dont have the DLC but it would not affect the game experience at all. Not having them makes no difference to the gameplay at all so it cannot be called P2W.
The mentioned sets are OP and even more so in PVP.
They do offer some serious advantage to the player who wears the sets.
Posting otherwise is just to ignore the truth.Some videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince1 -
AbysmalGhul✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't think this game would ever turn to a P2W game. I haven't seen any signs that it will head in that direction.3 -
bzz86✭✭✭✭Dragneel1207 wrote: »its already p2W when sets like zaan ,earthengore are behind paywall which are OP and that is the 10th point u mentioned
How is that pay-to-win ? The sets are in DLC-s that if you don't have make no difference as you would not play any DLC content where these sets would be "better". If you dont have DLCs you would play base content so the "better" monster sets like Zaan or Earthgore would not impact your gameplay. Yes they would make you "stronger" than other players that dont have the DLC but it would not affect the game experience at all. Not having them makes no difference to the gameplay at all so it cannot be called P2W.
The mentioned sets are OP and even more so in PVP.
They do offer some serious advantage to the player who wears the sets.
Posting otherwise is just to ignore the truth.
I have not mentioned at any point PVP and neither did the original post. If you play PVP you choose to do so. While I understand what you are trying to say purchasing expansion that extends your item choice is still not P2W.2 -
Runkorko✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ppl always complain....
If i can get it from game, i dont care that mr X can buy it from store.
Whats your problem with ppl paying to skip the game ? Let them. Get your gear by achieving things, and be be proud of it.
And to answer your question : Game will become p2w if you not be able to get some gear/character stats if you dont pay for them.
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