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Why Uppercut needs to be changed, and now
Alucardo
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There have been numerous threads on uppercut from avid 2h users, but as someone who has played this game for a number of years, and used both 2h and SnB for offense extensively I wanted to give you my insight.
The 2h weapon tree is supposed to be for DPS, but due to the dynamic nature of combat SnB will always win, even if you manage to get a juicy 20k tooltip on dizzying swing. It's the cast time - it needs to go, and obviously the damage adjusted accordingly. Using SnB as your offensive weapon, your attacks are not only quicker, but it's also a more reactive play style. If you see you're about to get CC'd, you can quickly stop what you're doing and block. This isn't so easy while you're mid swing during an uppercut.
The cast time also means that enemies with actual awareness will be able to react to your attacks every time by blocking them, CCing, or by simply walking through you to cancel it.
Because of these reasons, your DPS is actually lower, which is silly for an ability that provides nothing but damage. I can flip to my SnB and apply an array of debuffs while also getting all of my hits to land, meaning my DPS is higher. How does this make sense?
While not exactly the best portrayal, I took a quick video on my "tank" in between undaunted grinding. I'm using SnB and a 2h axe. In fairness, both weapons use a poison glyph, so the 1h is obviously cut in half, which would assume even less damage.
Not only is your DPS higher, but the buffs and debuffs provided with each stroke, and extra mitigation make SnB even more enticing as an offensive weapon. I've added some appropriate music which sum up my thoughts accurately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2QxEphgVTo
Please, do something about uppercut. You really can't leave it in this state. It was fine a long time ago, but the game has become much faster paced, meaning spammables with cast times are completely redundant.
It also looks really stupid. There, I said it.
The 2h weapon tree is supposed to be for DPS, but due to the dynamic nature of combat SnB will always win, even if you manage to get a juicy 20k tooltip on dizzying swing. It's the cast time - it needs to go, and obviously the damage adjusted accordingly. Using SnB as your offensive weapon, your attacks are not only quicker, but it's also a more reactive play style. If you see you're about to get CC'd, you can quickly stop what you're doing and block. This isn't so easy while you're mid swing during an uppercut.
The cast time also means that enemies with actual awareness will be able to react to your attacks every time by blocking them, CCing, or by simply walking through you to cancel it.
Because of these reasons, your DPS is actually lower, which is silly for an ability that provides nothing but damage. I can flip to my SnB and apply an array of debuffs while also getting all of my hits to land, meaning my DPS is higher. How does this make sense?
While not exactly the best portrayal, I took a quick video on my "tank" in between undaunted grinding. I'm using SnB and a 2h axe. In fairness, both weapons use a poison glyph, so the 1h is obviously cut in half, which would assume even less damage.
Not only is your DPS higher, but the buffs and debuffs provided with each stroke, and extra mitigation make SnB even more enticing as an offensive weapon. I've added some appropriate music which sum up my thoughts accurately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2QxEphgVToPlease, do something about uppercut. You really can't leave it in this state. It was fine a long time ago, but the game has become much faster paced, meaning spammables with cast times are completely redundant.
It also looks really stupid. There, I said it.
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Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭1. Set the damage to 75% of its current numbers.
2. Cut casting time to 0.5 at lv1, 0.25 at max lv4.
3. ?
4. profit.
(nice music)August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber5 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭wrecking blow needs reduced cast time, with damage values adjusted to its new state. Its no suprise that a CRUSHING majority of the 2h/bow builds are stamblades, and the remaining few 2h/bow users that aren't stamblades usually play in heavy armor to make sure they don't blow up while casting uppercut, which is unacceptable in my opinion.
Dizzying swing is fine because it comes with such a strong CC that makes it risk reward, but for those that don't want a risk&reward option or want to use a more reliable stun, there is no spammable option. Wrecking blow does not offer anything special, the empower is not what it used to be.
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »all i see is bash on the s/b line needs to nerfed.
Yeah right, so that we end up with two bad weapons instead of one good and one bad.5 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »Nothing wrong with it.... Seriously. Leave it alone, just learn to use it.
Just because you keep getting hit with it doesn't mean it works fine. Between lag and a lot of counterplay it rarely ever hits.6 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »wrecking blow needs reduced cast time, with damage values adjusted to its new state. Its no suprise that a CRUSHING majority of the 2h/bow builds are stamblades, and the remaining few 2h/bow users that aren't stamblades usually play in heavy armor to make sure they don't blow up while casting uppercut, which is unacceptable in my opinion.
Dizzying swing is fine because it comes with such a strong CC that makes it risk reward, but for those that don't want a risk&reward option or want to use a more reliable stun, there is no spammable option. Wrecking blow does not offer anything special, the empower is not what it used to be.
Imbue is your spammable if you don’t want to use wrecking blow or dizzy. You aren’t block casting on 2h bar anyway so why not use that?
EU | PC | AD1 -
Ahzek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »wrecking blow needs reduced cast time, with damage values adjusted to its new state. Its no suprise that a CRUSHING majority of the 2h/bow builds are stamblades, and the remaining few 2h/bow users that aren't stamblades usually play in heavy armor to make sure they don't blow up while casting uppercut, which is unacceptable in my opinion.
Dizzying swing is fine because it comes with such a strong CC that makes it risk reward, but for those that don't want a risk&reward option or want to use a more reliable stun, there is no spammable option. Wrecking blow does not offer anything special, the empower is not what it used to be.
Imbue is your spammable if you don’t want to use wrecking blow or dizzy. You aren’t block casting on 2h bar anyway so why not use that?
Imbue is arguably harder to hit than dizzying in certain PvP situations LUL.
I like the rist/reward playstyle of dizzying swing, but would argue that it could use an overall buff to its power, without increasing the damage or making it easier to hit. Reintroducing thet minor maim debuff for example would be a welcome change.Jo'Khaljor4 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »wrecking blow needs reduced cast time, with damage values adjusted to its new state. Its no suprise that a CRUSHING majority of the 2h/bow builds are stamblades, and the remaining few 2h/bow users that aren't stamblades usually play in heavy armor to make sure they don't blow up while casting uppercut, which is unacceptable in my opinion.
Dizzying swing is fine because it comes with such a strong CC that makes it risk reward, but for those that don't want a risk&reward option or want to use a more reliable stun, there is no spammable option. Wrecking blow does not offer anything special, the empower is not what it used to be.
Imbue is your spammable if you don’t want to use wrecking blow or dizzy. You aren’t block casting on 2h bar anyway so why not use that?
That skill is horrifyingly clunky and the stamina morph is not that great. Funnily enough I had a dual wield dot build where I tried imbue weapons, and the best way to use that skill is to cast it before you do a light attack-skill-bash weave.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 3, 2019 5:09PM1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »Nothing wrong with it.... Seriously. Leave it alone, just learn to use it.
Just because you keep getting hit with it doesn't mean it works fine. Between lag and a lot of counterplay it rarely ever hits.
Pretty much this. In lag this skill performs horribly. The only people getting killed by this skill are those with the awareness of a pencil3 -
BrokenGameMechanics✭✭✭✭No way, no how from a PvP standpoint. Without the cast time and the current complete disarray with movement speed, it would be a zip up and 1-hit and it's over for a lot of glassier builds.1
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Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »No way, no how from a PvP standpoint. Without the cast time and the current complete disarray with movement speed, it would be a zip up and 1-hit and it's over for a lot of glassier builds.
That's why the damage would have to be adjusted, as I stated. 20k tooltip on an instant cast would be absolutely ridiculous xD1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »No way, no how from a PvP standpoint. Without the cast time and the current complete disarray with movement speed, it would be a zip up and 1-hit and it's over for a lot of glassier builds.
Stamblades already have it. SnB already has it. No Its not 1-hit and over unless you're a full divines ganker.0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭psychotic13 wrote: »Nothing wrong with it.... Seriously. Leave it alone, just learn to use it.
Just because you keep getting hit with it doesn't mean it works fine. Between lag and a lot of counterplay it rarely ever hits.
Im not getting hit with it, i use it on my stamsorc and stamdk so stop with the ***, your moaning about something you obviously dont have the ability to use2 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »Nothing wrong with it.... Seriously. Leave it alone, just learn to use it.
Just because you keep getting hit with it doesn't mean it works fine. Between lag and a lot of counterplay it rarely ever hits.
Im not getting hit with it, i use it on my stamsorc and stamdk so stop with the ***, your moaning about something you obviously dont have the ability to use
I'm fairly certain he's quite capable of pressing a button4 -
Stellarvorous✭✭✭Not sure why anyone would be opposed to making a skill that obviously performs poorly in high ping environments slightly better.
The Stam sorc/DK that says he uses it there for it must be fine doesn't say in the context of where hes using it.
As someone who goes to NA PC Vivec once in a while … uppercut and the related morphs don't work for crap when theres a 30v30 going down and it takes 4 whole seconds to cast then people walk away from you because it never went off.
The whole 2 hander skill line needs to be more balanced with the rest of the weapon skill lines anyways and if anyone should have the sand to deny that claim I highly doubt they actually use it.
The only performing skills for 2 hander are as we already know and as follows Executioner/Reverse Slice and Forward momentum.
While I use onslaught ritualistically I wont say its bad when it aint but it could be better imo and no I don't mean OP better ... Just better
The passives imo *might use a slight tweak* in favor of 2 hander.
That being said anyone denying this skill has issues working either doesn't use it them selves or they want to keep it underperforming so they don't have to worry about actually having to dodge it4 -
Luckylancer✭✭✭✭✭There is no way to learn how using it, it is click and hit. But we can learn how to dodge it. So old players are totaly immune to it, new players get all the hits.
Reduced cast time will make it unreactable and op. I cant imagine dizzy swing effect in any other form with that little cost. Dmg is juicy too.
Other morp can change tho. If it's channel is reduced it will be plain boring spammable skill (imbue weapon v2. 0). My suggestion is: 0 cast time, boht players are stunned after. This basicly remove prechannel amd puts post skill channel. A weird and unique skill. Nothing changes for pve uses too.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »all i see is bash on the s/b line needs to nerfed.
Yeah right, so that we end up with two bad weapons instead of one good and one bad.
50% more damage with 20% cost reduction for bash is enough and would stop the abuse you see in the ops video.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »all i see is bash on the s/b line needs to nerfed.
Yeah right, so that we end up with two bad weapons instead of one good and one bad.
50% more damage with 20% cost reduction for bash is enough and would stop the abuse you see in the ops video.
That doesn't change the fact that its uppercut thats inferior to other spammables.
And excuse me? bash weaving is abuse now? According to who? You?Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 4, 2019 1:27AM2 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »all i see is bash on the s/b line needs to nerfed.
Yeah right, so that we end up with two bad weapons instead of one good and one bad.
50% more damage with 20% cost reduction for bash is enough and would stop the abuse you see in the ops video.
That doesn't change the fact that its uppercut thats inferior to other spammables.
And excuse me? bash weaving is abuse now? According to who? You?
Nice insult/bait.
I use uppercut on my Stam sorc, always in my top 3 damage done. Never seemed bad. I see no reason that bashing with a shield ought to do as much damage as it does. I mean there is a jewelry enchant that just gives you more weapon damage to your bash, you ought to use that if you want your bash to do as much damage as a regular spammable, not rely on a passive. Give up your regular damage for bash damage. Seems far to me.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on April 4, 2019 2:07AM2 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Good idea . Lag and bad animation just create skills people avoid . It's a needed QoL improvement .2 -
Digiman✭✭✭✭✭This skill was spammable back in the day and quite OP with its increased damage and CC. I don't see why it can't have a shorter cast time in its current state though.0 -
juhislihis19✭✭✭✭Dizzy is difficult to land with even the slightest bit of lag.
We have Surprise Attack, the strongest spammable with Major Fracture.
There's also ranged spammable Cutting Dive for Wardens.
I don't see why we can't tweak Wrecking Blow to an instant morph.
1) Leavy Dizzy as it is
2) Make Wrecking Blow instant or 0.5s cast time or similar
3) Reduce the damage by 30-40% and remove the knockback of Wrecking Blow
4) Profit for StamDK's and StamSorcs
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Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭juhislihis19 wrote: »Dizzy is difficult to land with even the slightest bit of lag.
We have Surprise Attack, the strongest spammable with Major Fracture.
There's also ranged spammable Cutting Dive for Wardens.
I don't see why we can't tweak Wrecking Blow to an instant morph.
1) Leavy Dizzy as it is
2) Make Wrecking Blow instant or 0.5s cast time or similar
3) Reduce the damage by 30-40% and remove the knockback of Wrecking Blow
4) Profit for StamDK's and StamSorcs
Happy to leave Dizzy as is. As long as Wrecking gets a rework to make it easier to land in PvP, I'm all good. Let's be honest, the empower with the cast time on this skill makes it utterly ridiculous. Sure it used to be okay when empower boosted the damage of your next ability, even ultimates, but now it's just a light attack...1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »all i see is bash on the s/b line needs to nerfed.
Yeah right, so that we end up with two bad weapons instead of one good and one bad.
50% more damage with 20% cost reduction for bash is enough and would stop the abuse you see in the ops video.
That doesn't change the fact that its uppercut thats inferior to other spammables.
And excuse me? bash weaving is abuse now? According to who? You?
Nice insult/bait.
I use uppercut on my Stam sorc, always in my top 3 damage done. Never seemed bad. I see no reason that bashing with a shield ought to do as much damage as it does. I mean there is a jewelry enchant that just gives you more weapon damage to your bash, you ought to use that if you want your bash to do as much damage as a regular spammable, not rely on a passive. Give up your regular damage for bash damage. Seems far to me.
You can do light attack-skill-bash combo with any weapon. It just happens that SnB bashing is cheaper and more effective.
This isn't abuse. You're just ridicilous.2 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »all i see is bash on the s/b line needs to nerfed.
Yeah right, so that we end up with two bad weapons instead of one good and one bad.
50% more damage with 20% cost reduction for bash is enough and would stop the abuse you see in the ops video.
That doesn't change the fact that its uppercut thats inferior to other spammables.
And excuse me? bash weaving is abuse now? According to who? You?
Nice insult/bait.
I use uppercut on my Stam sorc, always in my top 3 damage done. Never seemed bad. I see no reason that bashing with a shield ought to do as much damage as it does. I mean there is a jewelry enchant that just gives you more weapon damage to your bash, you ought to use that if you want your bash to do as much damage as a regular spammable, not rely on a passive. Give up your regular damage for bash damage. Seems far to me.
You can do light attack-skill-bash combo with any weapon. It just happens that SnB bashing is cheaper and more effective.
This isn't abuse. You're just ridicilous.
Again with the insults/bait.
You get double damage from having a s/b on and almost half the cost. That is huge. Can't do that with all weapons.
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »all i see is bash on the s/b line needs to nerfed.
Yeah right, so that we end up with two bad weapons instead of one good and one bad.
50% more damage with 20% cost reduction for bash is enough and would stop the abuse you see in the ops video.
That doesn't change the fact that its uppercut thats inferior to other spammables.
And excuse me? bash weaving is abuse now? According to who? You?
Nice insult/bait.
I use uppercut on my Stam sorc, always in my top 3 damage done. Never seemed bad. I see no reason that bashing with a shield ought to do as much damage as it does. I mean there is a jewelry enchant that just gives you more weapon damage to your bash, you ought to use that if you want your bash to do as much damage as a regular spammable, not rely on a passive. Give up your regular damage for bash damage. Seems far to me.
You can do light attack-skill-bash combo with any weapon. It just happens that SnB bashing is cheaper and more effective.
This isn't abuse. You're just ridicilous.
Again with the insults/bait.
You get double damage from having a s/b on and almost half the cost. That is huge. Can't do that with all weapons.
True, Its distinct power to SnB. It makes sense cause you are literally bashing with a shield.
Every weapon line has passives to offer unique gameplay. Its not SnB's fault that 2h passives are bad relative to other weapons and cleave/uppercut are unrealiable in PvP.
In case you're too blind to tell, this is a topic about PvP, not PvE. Nobody cares if uppercut is in your top 3 damage done. Parses are meaningless in PvP. I'm not baiting/insulting, you are quite literally crying about bash.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 4, 2019 7:03AM2 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »all i see is bash on the s/b line needs to nerfed.
Yeah right, so that we end up with two bad weapons instead of one good and one bad.
50% more damage with 20% cost reduction for bash is enough and would stop the abuse you see in the ops video.
That doesn't change the fact that its uppercut thats inferior to other spammables.
And excuse me? bash weaving is abuse now? According to who? You?
Nice insult/bait.
I use uppercut on my Stam sorc, always in my top 3 damage done. Never seemed bad. I see no reason that bashing with a shield ought to do as much damage as it does. I mean there is a jewelry enchant that just gives you more weapon damage to your bash, you ought to use that if you want your bash to do as much damage as a regular spammable, not rely on a passive. Give up your regular damage for bash damage. Seems far to me.
You can do light attack-skill-bash combo with any weapon. It just happens that SnB bashing is cheaper and more effective.
This isn't abuse. You're just ridicilous.
Again with the insults/bait.
You get double damage from having a s/b on and almost half the cost. That is huge. Can't do that with all weapons.
True, Its distinct power to SnB. It makes sense cause you are literally bashing with a shield.
Every weapon line has passives to offer unique gameplay. Its not SnB's fault that 2h passives are bad relative to other weapons and cleave/uppercut are unrealiable in PvP.
In case you're too blind to tell, this is a topic about PvP, not PvE. Nobody cares if uppercut is in your top 3 damage done. Parses are meaningless in PvP. I'm not baiting/insulting, you are quite literally crying about bash.
more bait/insulting.
if this is about pvp, who cares what you use to kill the other guy? isnt that point of pvp? to kill the other guy? no one remembers how you did it. all that matter is that you killed the other guy.
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »all i see is bash on the s/b line needs to nerfed.
Yeah right, so that we end up with two bad weapons instead of one good and one bad.
50% more damage with 20% cost reduction for bash is enough and would stop the abuse you see in the ops video.
That doesn't change the fact that its uppercut thats inferior to other spammables.
And excuse me? bash weaving is abuse now? According to who? You?
Nice insult/bait.
I use uppercut on my Stam sorc, always in my top 3 damage done. Never seemed bad. I see no reason that bashing with a shield ought to do as much damage as it does. I mean there is a jewelry enchant that just gives you more weapon damage to your bash, you ought to use that if you want your bash to do as much damage as a regular spammable, not rely on a passive. Give up your regular damage for bash damage. Seems far to me.
You can do light attack-skill-bash combo with any weapon. It just happens that SnB bashing is cheaper and more effective.
This isn't abuse. You're just ridicilous.
Again with the insults/bait.
You get double damage from having a s/b on and almost half the cost. That is huge. Can't do that with all weapons.
True, Its distinct power to SnB. It makes sense cause you are literally bashing with a shield.
Every weapon line has passives to offer unique gameplay. Its not SnB's fault that 2h passives are bad relative to other weapons and cleave/uppercut are unrealiable in PvP.
In case you're too blind to tell, this is a topic about PvP, not PvE. Nobody cares if uppercut is in your top 3 damage done. Parses are meaningless in PvP. I'm not baiting/insulting, you are quite literally crying about bash.
more bait/insulting.
if this is about pvp, who cares what you use to kill the other guy? isnt that point of pvp? to kill the other guy? no one remembers how you did it. all that matter is that you killed the other guy.
Then don't come here asking for a bash nerf? What will that even achieve?Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 4, 2019 7:14AM1