Just a crazy idea to address the ridiculously low dps problem in veteran group finder dungeons

Dragneel1207 · April 2019

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

ok this will for sure set some fire but here goes a crazy idea for a possible future patch note:

-queuing as dps for any VETERAN dungeon no longer queues you straight away but instead now teleports you to a small room with only a test dummy and a start button. After pressing the button a 3 sec countdown timer starts after which you have to unleash your maximum dmge on the test dummy during 1 minute and kill it before those 60 seconds expire . The higher your dps the higher you end up on the queuing priority list and if you fail to meet the minimum dps check threshold by not being able to kill the dummy in that 1 minute timeframe it explodes, killing you in the process as well as teleporting you back outside. =P

that should solve all the issues with low dps in vet dungeons

@ZOS_GinaBruno

that killing part made me laugh

redspecter23 · April 2019

The award for best idea that will never be implemented has now been awarded to OP.

srfrogg23 · April 2019

karekiz wrote: »

SkerKro wrote: »

Having good or the highest dps against a stationary target dummy doesn't mean much if the dps doesnt dodge roll or block against a boss that has mechanics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUC44-saIBg

IIRC those AoE's are one shots as well

They were. That was a pretty brutal test to get into the higher difficulty stuff. It was a one-time thing, though. Not required for every time you queued 🤔

karekiz · April 2019

srfrogg23 wrote: »

They were. That was a pretty brutal test to get into the higher difficulty stuff. It was a one-time thing, though. Not required for every time you queued 🤔

You shouldn't do it every time lol. Just once to unlock the que button for that role.

LeagueTroll · April 2019

No fake dd deserves carry too. We must kick the fake tank and fake healer, while establish double standard, criticizes ppl for kick fake dd.

LeagueTroll · April 2019

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

This might help overall, while causing some pain points in certain fringe situations described above.

However, it won't fully address the problem.

I was going to create a whole new rant thread about this, and I still might, but I'll mention it here.

I spent 2 hours trying to clear vet fang lair yesterday afternoon. I was on my new stamplar (no undaunted passives, no caltrops so by no means ideal). The joys of random queue! I was doing maybe 25k DPS, and noticed very early on that I was doing 65-70% of group dps. We managed to slog our way through it, up until the bone beasts.

After a 7:00 pull where we got the bear to maybe 30%, I just flat-out asked the other dps what his dummy parse was. "I don't dummy parse. I'm an RP-er who occasionally dabbles in PvE". Of course we immediately kicked him, got a new dps, and downed it in 3 or 4 minutes next pull. So yes, having some kind of dps gate is important, with the way the meta currently is (which I don't support, but that's beside the point right now I guess).

The main point I'm trying to make happened later. We finally got to Thurvokuun (I think that's his name?). And our tank goes down like a sack of bricks. Every. Freaking. Time. Our roadblock had switched from DPS to mechanics. From what I gathered over the next hour or so, the scarab that spawns is what messes up the tank. As dps we were too busy trying to keep the crystals at bay, so eventually I decided to just solo the crystals and keep the other dps on scarab duty. In order to not push the phase, he basically just sat there and killed scarabs. And it actually worked.

It worked, up until the deathwalls. During the deathwall phase, somebody would always die. Usually the replacement tank, sometimes the other dps. But going into the next phase with deaths is really hard to recover from. We kept throwing ourselves at it until we reached the last phase, but then we'd always have one or two deaths due to the poison projectiles. We just didn't have enough coordination to stand in different light areas. From there, the healer left and we decided to just call it. 2 hours of my life just gone.

The point I'm trying to make with this long rant is that simply upping dps won't necessarily allow groups to seamlessly clear content. I also just disagree with a lot of aspects of DLC dungeons in general though. I'd like to have a long conversation with the PvE planning team about their goals and what they're trying to achieve doing things the way they do, but that's neither here nor there.

You can learn mechanics. I qued up mhk straight into vet on my tank with 0 knowledge, no voice chat, cleared it in about1 hour, after only kick 1 bad dd.

Having a proper rotation, do good dps should be required to enter vet dungeons. You can’t teach someone rotation in a dungeon.

idk · April 2019

The first thing is the idea fails because it presumes the DPS is queueing solo. If they queue with one other person, especially a support role it fails. Do you really want a tank removed from the queue because of the DPS in their group?

Second, Zos tends to not like to introduce punitive systems into their game. It does not make good business sense.

Finally, we are not talking about testing the best dps on the server. They generally know better than to use the GF and can easily get into a group from one of their raid guilds so it seems odd to do a dps test on those who for whatever reason cannot get into a group without GF.

After all, why would a dps queue without getting at least one support role to join in with them? Seems the smart way to go.

Most important is DPS is only part of the issue. Newer dungeons require a player pay attention and deal with mechanics. The last great story I have from GF was a melee stam dps, high CP, stated he did not have an interrupt. This guy was about as dumb on mechanics as he was about how to play the game. If he could make the DPS cut he would still be horrible in the group.

Regardless, and no offense to OP, Zos would not implement such an idea.

Ozby · April 2019

omg lame

Toc de Malsvi · April 2019

WoW did this sort of thing a long time ago.

Enemoriana · April 2019

1. If playing with random people cause so much pain, why not play with friends/guild? Player who do vet dungeons often, surely will have somebody. Those who do rarely? Less chances.
2. Pre-made groups also use group finder, and there can be low dps - with everybody knowing and accepting it.
3. Most important. If high dps player will have high priority... that will mean groups in most cases will have two high or two low dps. Or low even won't get into dungeon. So, low can't do dungeon at all, so they will just think it doesn't work. Will they improve their skill? No. They just won't go there. So there will be much less players who could improve their dps. That will mean you'll have less good players to do dungeons with... And with high/low there is good example: it can be done, but that guy was so much better!
And removing all low dps even isn't really needed. Group of three (sometimes two) good players can afford not good. That's why somebody can be carried.

Tsar_Gekkou · April 2019

There doesn't need to be any test, since everyone is allowed to queue up for dungeons. What needs to be done is abolish the 15 minute leaver timer upon joining, so i'm not punished for leaving because I joined a vet dungeon with cp700s who just light attack and die if a large add farts in their general direction. I'm going to quit at the 10-15 minute mark anyway, so why not just save them some time when it comes to queuing for a replacement?

zTrok · April 2019

WeAVinG iS An ExPLOit

Grandma · April 2019

cute idea, but too contrived and not plausible to implement. So sick of pathetic dps in queues though.

JayAstrophel · April 2019

Honestly, I've been hearing all this stuff about vet dungeons for ages and it's completely scared me off from doing any of them unless I absolutely need to (for monster helms or the like)

When I first hit level 50, I decided to wait till cp200 to try any vet dungeons. The time came, I tried, and truthfully I still had a lot to learn. At the time I didn't use food, I could hit max 7k dps, even when I was really trying, and almost every boss could one-shot me. A couple times in vet banished cells 2 I got oneshot by basic mob clanfears.

I get that I was pretty awful and probably shouldn't have been there at the time. But people were pretty rude to me and it really tore me up inside. So I left vet dungeons alone for quite a while - until I had nearly everything for my main's build except Selene's helm. I went in around 300 cp with various groups and wiped again and again on the last boss for hours. Eventually some guildmates were able to help me out, but we still couldn't do it until one of the best tanks I've ever seen came by and got us through.

My guildies were super encouraging but snap, everything I'd been told about DPS really made me feel like every wipe was entirely my fault. Certainly, I probably wasn't great. At that time in Selene's I had about 14k dps. And it just wasn't enough to take down all the adds that kept spawning - at least not until that incredible tank came and grabbed every enemy to the center. They all got taken down by all the aoes we had and it was good! I was glad to get my helm, and finish my gear set at last.

After that though, I've been pretty much done with vet dungeons. I don't want to let anyone down like I feel I did in my ventures in there. I've been trying to upgrade my jewelry to purple and can hit max 17k dps now. Plus I have the health from food to survive attacks these days. Definitely a lot better than where I started. But I see everyone throw around these numbers - 20, 30, even 40 and 50k, and I just don't know what's actually needed anymore. My 14k was fine for Selene with that tank, but with all the other groups it wasn't good enough. So I'm staying away until I hit at least 30k. Knowing how long it's taken me to get as far as I am now, I'll be joining you all in those cool versions of the dungeons and trials in about a year XD

Olupajmibanan · April 2019

The only thing needed is Guild Finder tool.

HappyLittleTree · April 2019

only thing i'd wish was that vet dungeons require cp160. just for the sake of loot sharing.

Zhoyzu · April 2019

DenMoria wrote: »

What's the issue with the DPS?

What DPS is expected (although I would assume it must be high given that it's veterans).

All I know is that, although I'm still relatively low level, I'm easily hitting 3-4K at level 12 or 13 already and can only assume that it will continue to grow.

Just wondering so that I can set my sights on the necessities for later activitiies.

Thank you

for non DLC you can get by with 15k dps and that probably as low as you want to go 20k dps is basically is whats expected from pugs but the higher you go the better

commodore64 · April 2019

When you fail the DPS test the dummy holds up a 'YOU ARE PATHETIC' sign and the game auto-uninstalls. A letter is then sent to your parents in which they're asked to explain why they did such a poor job raising their child.

Or it's just a game, get over yourselves.

Chaos2088 · April 2019

Or people should get better and being a DD.

Sorry if that sounds harsh or looking down on others etc, but there is a role to play and you are going to need to do damage.

Get gud! 😬🥳

Noctus · April 2019

build a wall between good dps and bad dps.
walls and wheels allways worked in history.

SshadowSscale · April 2019

This would only make more dps players que as healers and tanks to avoid the all ready long que for dps and also to avoid test dummie room

profundidob16_ESO · April 2019

SshadowSscale wrote: »

This would only make more dps players que as healers and tanks to avoid the all ready long que for dps and also to avoid test dummie room

No, because the tanks and healers would get the test room as well and a dd could not pass there at all

So no more fake tanks or healers either

thedovahmon · April 2019

Prof_Bawbag · April 2019

This thread has been unintentionally hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.

profundidob16_ESO · April 2019

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

This thread has been unintentionally hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.

you're welcome

profundidob16_ESO · April 2019

Noctus wrote: »

build a wall between good dps and bad dps.
walls and wheels allways worked in history.

I heard there's some guy with ideas on that. He's called 'Trump' or something =P

satanio · April 2019

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

The only thing needed is Guild Finder tool.

It was announced as a feature for elsweyr.

ecru · April 2019

DenMoria wrote: »

What's the issue with the DPS?

What DPS is expected (although I would assume it must be high given that it's veterans).

All I know is that, although I'm still relatively low level, I'm easily hitting 3-4K at level 12 or 13 already and can only assume that it will continue to grow.

Just wondering so that I can set my sights on the necessities for later activitiies.

Thank you

15-20k is fine for vet dungeons, not including dlc. 20-25k for DLC, but more is preferrable. You can still queue into vet dungeons and not be able to clear because of dps though. I queued in as tank into a vet FG2 and the other two dps were doing 10k combined while dying repeatedly. I tried my hardest to carry them through with 15-20k dps as sort of a hybrid tank but I kept getting pinned by the boss, they would die before they could res me, and after 3 or 4 wipes I just left.

Having to pass some kind of "test" could be lore friendly if it was related to the undaunted in some way. I don't know if it's a good idea, but it probably would have prevented situations like I described above.

Fluke.Slywalker · April 2019

Yeah it's just as irritating for the lesser-experienced player who's lagging behind while you solo-melt the entire dungeon, ruining the experience for him/her.

We were all lower dps at one time, if you join and think you're a little too OP for your PUG group, either leave or knock it down a little and let them participate.

On topic:- Although it's a good idea, it would further delay the process of actually joining a PUG group which can already be painstakingly long.

It's no different to other online drop in co-op games.

IMO** - I always forget that part

Ackwalan · April 2019

As a tank, the most aggravating thing is to watch DPS ignore the fight mechanics. Low DPS can be dealt with, but when they need to bash the boss when the tank is pinned, and they won't, the dungeon can't be completed.